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opus111
Jul 6, 2014

In fictional TV shows, why is it that people are so tight and prissy about using defibrillators? Say a character goes into arrest and the docs start shocking them, they will always be somebody shouting that it's a waste of time and they should stop now, and what's the point? And they're so frickin mad about it, screaming or rolling their eyes or physically stopping the docs from executing the process... why is this?

opus111 fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Aug 2, 2015

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symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

because electricity is bad voodoo magic that jesus frowns upon

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



In the Evil Dead remake a dude makes a defibrillator out of two needles and a car battery and brings a zombie lady back to life with it.

opus111
Jul 6, 2014

theres an evil dead remake? wtf?

Tuxedo Gin
May 21, 2003

Classy.

creates tension

the dumbest thing is cpr in films/tv. in real life it's not a few pumps on the chest and they miraculously recover. cpr doesn't restart the heart, just keeps it pumping manually long enough to keep the brain alive until professional help arrives

Faux Mulder
Aug 1, 2014

just gonna do whatever I want to do, all the time

opus111 posted:

In fictional TV shows, why is it that people are so tight and prissy about using defibrillators? Say a character goes into arrest and the docs start shocking them, they will always be somebody shouting that it's a waste of time and they should stop now, and what's the point? And they're so frickin man about it, screaming or rolling their eyes or physically stopping the docs from executing the process... why is this?

irl it would usually be because a defibrillator wouldn't do poo poo to a flatline readout which is what they use it for in TV shows.

the best screen use of a defibrillator is the scene in the Abyss where they defibrillate the main lady to revive her from drowning while she's soaking wet and the entire cast of the movie is huddled around her, kneeling in a big pool of salt water

opus111
Jul 6, 2014

Tuxedo Gin posted:

creates tension

the dumbest thing is cpr in films/tv. in real life it's not a few pumps on the chest and they miraculously recover. cpr doesn't restart the heart, just keeps it pumping manually long enough to keep the brain alive until professional help arrives

I thought about tension but rejected that because... well the battle of life and death is surely tense enough? Also I didn't know that about CPR - cool!

opus111
Jul 6, 2014

Faux Mulder posted:

irl it would usually be because a defibrillator wouldn't do poo poo to a flatline readout which is what they use it for in TV shows.

the best screen use of a defibrillator is the scene in the Abyss where they defibrillate the main lady to revive her from drowning while she's soaking wet and the entire cast of the movie is huddled around her, kneeling in a big pool of salt water

OIC, thanks. So once somebody flatlines, thats it?

Cowman
Feb 14, 2006

Beware the Cow





opus111 posted:

theres an evil dead remake? wtf?

yea it's pretty rad

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



Cowman posted:

yea it's pretty rad

It's just alright.

Faux Mulder
Aug 1, 2014

just gonna do whatever I want to do, all the time

opus111 posted:

OIC, thanks. So once somebody flatlines, thats it?

Not definitively, but in that scenario you'd be better off just doing chest compressions, a defibrillator isn't an appropriate course of action. Defibrillators are meant to treat atrial or ventricular fibrillation in the heart, which is when the electrical nerve impulses controlling the contraction of heart muscle get disorganised and desynchronised and cause the muscle tissue to spasm and flutter as different parts of it contract at different times. The defib works by delivering a shock that overpowers the heart's own nerve impulses, intended to reset the electrical activity and get it back in sync. What it won't do is restart those impulses after they stop happening.

Tuxedo Gin
May 21, 2003

Classy.

opus111 posted:

Also I didn't know that about CPR - cool!

yeah it's actually really loving unpleasant. i used to be a lifeguard instructor at a waterpark and we had to teach a bunch of 16 year olds how to do cpr and that if they don't break ribs they're not doing it right, and that they may have to pump for their lives for 2-4+ minutes until EMS could arrive and that is surprisingly loving hard and often requires trading off.

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000
beaten but because it's kind of a Hail Mary. Not as bad as cpr though

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
best way to save someones life is a combination of electrocuting them and punching them in the chest

Zippy the Bummer
Dec 14, 2008

Silent Majority
The Don
LORD COMMANDER OF THE UKRAINIAN ARMED FORCES
how might one go about restarting a heart that has fully stopped beating

if you could answer before i black out that'd be super

Demonachizer
Aug 7, 2004
I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?

symbolic
Nov 2, 2014

Demonachizer posted:

I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?
you don't, rest in peace grandpa

Faux Mulder
Aug 1, 2014

just gonna do whatever I want to do, all the time

lightning bolt

Demonachizer
Aug 7, 2004

Faux Mulder posted:

lightning bolt

do you need to channel it past a key attached to a jar or can you just shoot it right into their chest?

Demonachizer fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Aug 2, 2015

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Young Orc

Demonachizer posted:

I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?

Drugs

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
you open their chest and manually pump the heart with your hands

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
Nov 15, 2003

Tuxedo Gin posted:

yeah it's actually really loving unpleasant. i used to be a lifeguard instructor at a waterpark and we had to teach a bunch of 16 year olds how to do cpr and that if they don't break ribs they're not doing it right, and that they may have to pump for their lives for 2-4+ minutes until EMS could arrive and that is surprisingly loving hard and often requires trading off.

no matter what after 3 minutes the person you're trying has irreversible brain damage... like unless its really cold and since you're at the drat pool it's probably hot out so yeah, dont even bother

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
There is the most unimaginable gulf between the likely outcome in real life of CPR, and the fictional versions. Like, if you crash while actually in a world class cardiac unit, surrounded by fully trained nursing staff and a thoracic surgeon waiting to operate on you in the next 2 minutes, you get about 50/50 odds. If you drop in a random crowded place in a major city, where someone might know CPR, and a hospital isn't too far away, 15-20%. Anything else is pretty much a waste of time.

Bro Dad
Mar 26, 2010


i thought this was going to be a wikipedia article :(

Lassitude
Oct 21, 2003

Demonachizer posted:

I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?

Depends what caused the heart to stop working properly. If you get electrocuted and someone is close by with a defibrillator, then they work great. If you get shot and bleed out then defibrillators are 100% worthless. But in hospital settings defibrillators are used in conjunction with drugs. The success rate largely depends on the underlying issue though.

One important little consideration though is that brain damage starts after ~4 min of the heart no longer pumping blood (so no CPR either). In a lot of cases, people who get CPR and are successfully resuscitated end up with brain damage. CPR sucks and dying sucks and usually it's better just to stay dead.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
This guy collapsed next to me and I was thinking of giving him CPR but I knew that CPR was basically just a waste of time so I stole his wallet instead and ran off

lonesomedwarf
Mar 22, 2010

TheJoker138 posted:

It's just alright.

agrreed

lonesomedwarf
Mar 22, 2010

i was really hoping the lady was going to say "it was the woods themselves" but she didnt

Phlairdon
Apr 15, 2003

If you can't stand up you can't do war!

Demonachizer posted:

I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?

Phoenix Down

social vegan
Nov 7, 2014



opus111 posted:

OIC, thanks. So once somebody flatlines, thats it?

Cowman posted:

yea it's pretty rad

basement jihadist
Oct 3, 2002

because this is a law in MOvie World as promulgated by the Story King, who is a fan of building tension and conflict and recognizes that stories in Movie World are rather time-limited so he needs to cut the scene somehow from a guy just getting shocked over and over and over and over while he's clearly deasd because showing you that would be stupid because it's not very important that the doctor shocked him 50xxx

guy died. established.

Bloody Hedgehog
Dec 12, 2003

💥💥🤯💥💥
Gotta nuke something

Demonachizer posted:

I don't get it. If defibs don't work what is the best way to start a heart once a person is dead?

Shake your fist at god, scream "LIVE, drat YOU!", and then slam said fist down on persons chest.

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot
Chopper Reid provides some excellent CPR instruction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85qcMFDYbsw

dad gay. so what
Feb 18, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
did you know that you can have a defibrillator surgically implanted on your heart that can sense when it goes into arrest and then shocks it back into beating? modern medicine is amazing. truly a wonderful time to be alive, OP

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

opus111 posted:

theres an evil dead remake? wtf?

There's also an upcoming TV show. With Bruce Campbell. And it looks fun.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
im the tv guy spasming like franeksteins monster when defibbed

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
thanks doc that was a close one, bing my family in i wanna talk to em now

Nooner
Mar 26, 2011

AN A+ OPSTER (:
How about you defibulate DEEZE NUTS

Tony Homo
Oct 30, 2014

by zen death robot
2 years ago when I had my widow-maker heart attack my heart stopped while in the back of the ambulance. Lucky for me. They used 200 joules to restart my heart.

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Orkin Mang
Nov 1, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
it creates dramatic tension, and a sense of hopelessness. if the patient lives the protagonist is a hero. if the patient dies the protagonist was only guilty of hoping too much.

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