Chicago maintains a secret police black site, torture suspects,deny counsel

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Chicago maintains a secret police black site, torture suspects,deny counsel

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Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

I'm not sure how this is legal. Maybe a lawyer can explain how they have been able to get away with this and if there is any legitimacy to it. I just moved to Chicago and I am unfamiliar with local politics and laws but it would seem to be unconstitutional. There seems to be a sort of cynical contempt for the rule of law in the local government and it is pretty jarring. I don't know how a crypto facist like Rahm Emmanuel pulled off a re-election. Why would they need to take them to a warehouse and not an actual police department? Why are the arrestees taken to the black site overwhelmingly black.

quote:

Chicago police detained thousands of black Americans at interrogation facility
Special report: Guardian lawsuit reveals overwhelming racial disparity at Homan Square, where detainees are still held for minor crimes with little access to the outside world, despite police denials that site is an anomaly

At least 3,500 Americans have been detained inside a Chicago police warehouse described by some of its arrestees as a secretive interrogation facility, newly uncovered records reveal.

Of the thousands held in the facility known as Homan Square over a decade, 82% were black. Only three received documented visits from an attorney, according to a cache of documents obtained when the Guardian sued the police.

Despite repeated denials from the Chicago police department that the warehouse is a secretive, off-the-books anomaly, the Homan Square files begin to show how the city�s most vulnerable people get lost in its criminal justice system.

People held at Homan Square have been subsequently charged with everything from �drinking alcohol on the public way� to murder. But the scale of the detentions � and the racial disparity therein � raises the prospect of major civil-rights violations.

Documents indicate the detainees are a group of disproportionately minority citizens, many accused of low-level drug crimes, faced with incriminating themselves before their arrests appeared in a booking system by which their families and attorneys might find them.

The Chicago police department has maintained � even as the Guardian reported stories of people being shackled and held for hours or even days, all without legal access � that the warehouse is not a secret facility so much as an undercover police base operating in plain sight. �There are always records of anyone who is arrested by CPD, and this is no different at Homan Square,� the police asserted in a March statement.

But an independent Guardian analysis of arrestees� records, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, shows that Homan Square is far from normal:

Between September 2004 and June 2015, around 3,540 people were eventually charged, mostly with forms of drug possession � primarily heroin, as well as marijuana and cocaine � but also for minor infractions such as traffic violations, public urination and driving without a seatbelt.
More than 82% of the Homan Square arrests thus far disclosed � or 2,974 arrests � are of black people, while 8.5% are of white people. Chicago, according to the 2010 US census, is 33% black and 32% white.
Over two-thirds of the arrests at Homan Square thus far revealed � at least 2,522 � occurred under the tenure of Mayor Rahm Emanuel, the former top aide to Barack Obama who has said of Homan Square that the police working under him �follow all the rules�.
Contained within the statistics are stories of people held at Homan Square in and under questionable circumstances:

A 42-year-old civil rights activist says he was abducted by masked officers, shackled, held on false charges and �with no food, no water, no access to the outside world� at the behest of �covert operations�. He is one of at least 118 people whom police have detained at Homan Square since the Guardian exposed the warehouse�s usage as a detention facility in February. His wife described the ordeal as feeling their family had been �lost� by the police.
One young man, held at the warehouse for 14 hours without any public listing of his whereabouts, was just shy of his 18th birthday; the courts sentenced him to community service and probation.
Another man, not included in the disclosed data, said he fled Chicago after resisting police pressure to become an informant during multiple stints inside Homan Square.
The revelations are by no means a full accounting of police detentions at Homan Square, which Chicago has owned since 1995. The records only date from late 2004 and they exclude people eventually released without charge. After months of disputing the Guardian�s reporting, the Chicago police only made detailed information available after the Guardian sued them for it. Vast amounts of data documenting the full scope of detentions and interrogations at Homan Square remain undisclosed.

But longtime civil rights lawyers who reviewed the results of the Guardian�s lawsuit condemned Chicago police and politicians for sweeping Homan Square �under the rug of denial�. The Chicago police department did not respond to a detailed list of questions seeking to clarify its own records.

�I am extremely troubled but sadly not shocked at the exceedingly broad scope and fundamentally racist nature of the unconstitutional police conduct at Homan Square that the Guardian�s most recent study documents,� said Flint Taylor, who played a major role in pressuring Emanuel and the city to create a reparations fund for victims of police torture.

�Hopefully, Chicago�s political leadership and its establishment media will finally take notice and stop collaborating to bury this story, so righteously championed by the Guardian, under the rug of denial and false ignorance.�

From raids to a lawyer-less moment: how Homan Square traps Chicago�s most vulnerable

One of the thousands of people documented in the Homan Square files is R, a man the Guardian is not naming because of potential retribution. R was only 18 years old on 11 March 2006 when his home on the South Side of Chicago was raided by plainclothes police officers over a small bag of marijuana and his father�s antique gun that was �collecting dust in the basement�.

R recalled he, his brother and father were arrested and taken to Homan Square, on the West Side, where R says they were left in a single cell for hours � one to two hours while police �had us handcuffed to the little pole on the wall� � with no phone or attorney access. The family�s primary interaction with the police, according to R, was when they were unshackled.

Eventually, R says, his father was released without charge. Shortly after, he and his brother were told they were being taken for processing at police headquarters, where they were charged with possession. Neither served time for the misdemeanor.

�We didn�t understand why we had to go to Homan Square first,� R said in an interview.

Lawyers and former police officers say that lack of access to a lawyer after the arrest and before booking � particularly during any interrogation, and particularly people from poor minority communities � puts a suspect�s rights in jeopardy.

In Chicago, the police do not provide people with attorneys at the police station at the times they most need them: when they�re subject to interrogation,� said Craig Futterman of the University of Chicago Law School. �That�s what the Miranda warning is all about : the right to counsel while interrogated by police.�

Even when suspects claim to understand their rights, �they still tend to incriminate themselves� without an attorney present, Lorenzo Davis, a former police detective and attorney who himself commanded a unit at Homan Square, explained.

Despite the quadruple-digit number of arrestees held at Homan Square, the Chicago police proffered only three arrestees receiving visits from lawyers between 3 September 2004 and 1 July 2015. Two of them occurred on the same day in January 2013.

Unless approximately 3,500 people in custody waived their right to counsel, the revelation complicates � if not contradicts � the police�s March statement that �any individual who wishes to consult a lawyer will not be interrogated until they have an opportunity to do so�.

Former Homan Square detainees, lawyers and activists whom the Guardian has interviewed since February have claimed the majority of people held at Homan Square are black and Hispanic. Since the police did not disclose data on race for the vast majority of the 3,621 acknowledged detentions, the Guardian conducted its own review of arrestees� records.

In the tranche of detention records, more than four out of every five people taken to Homan Square are black; about 6.7% are Hispanic.

�It�s not unusual to me that close to 80% of those taken to Homan Square are black. Most of the gangs in Chicago are black. Being on the West Side in the 15th [district], you had numerous black gangs and they were all engaged in the dope traffic. A lot of their customers were white � occasionally you arrest the customer, but not too often,� Davis, who says Chicago�s police review board recently fired him for refusing to exonerate officers in wrongful shootings, said.

Similarly, white arrestees accounted for 8.5% of people the police identified as arrested at Homan Square.

�When I was a detective, occasionally I would arrest a white person,� Davis said, �and the white detectives would be overly interested in why I was arresting someone white.�

After further questioning by representatives for the Guardian, the Chicago police�s attorneys said that they cannot be sure more attorney visits did not occur � even though they were able to document only three.

A 2012 Chicago police general order says police personnel will �enter the visitor and/or attorney information in the section entitled �Interview/Visitor Logs��, suggesting the data ought to be available, if any more lawyer visitations at Homan Square in fact occurred. The order also decrees: �An arrestee or person-in-custody will be notified as soon as practicable upon the arrival at the police facility of his or her legal representative.�

The Guardian has been able to document an additional eight times lawyers were present at Homan Square. Four of them are referenced in police data as accompanying their clients to Homan to turn themselves in, a different circumstance from when attorneys are able to gain access to the warehouse after learning their clients are held there. In at least one of those cases, an attorney who asked for anonymity to respect client confidentiality did not gain access to Homan Square itself. Two other lawyers have said in interviews that they were allowed in.

�Being a lawyer,� Davis said, �I can definitely say that is a civil rights issue.�

Charles�s family, M�s birthday and Mayor Emanuel�s rules

After the Guardian�s initial Homan Square expose in February, police faced protests and calls for investigations from local politicians.

Rahm Emanuel, running for re-election partly on a platform of police reform, was not among them. He defended his police, saying �we follow all the rules� at Homan Square while vaguely calling the reporting �not true�. Emanuel�s office did not immediately respond to a request for clarification.

The police, claiming nothing at Homan Square was untoward, said on 1 March that Homan Square merely housed undercover units, a property-reclamation area open to the public and �several standard interview rooms�.

Sixteen days later, Charles Jones was taken to one of those �interview rooms� for a second time. It was 17 March, when he says police officers � some masked � kicked at his front door. A search warrant described a 5-foot-8-inch man with a light-skin complexion and freckles � Jones is 6-foot-4 with darker features � but after searching his home and finding a firearm in his air-conditioning unit, Jones was on his way back to Homan Square.

When Jones and his friend arrived, he recalls, they were immediately taken to separate interrogations rooms. Jones says he was shackled with handcuffs �to a ring around the wall� before police began asking him questions about �things I don�t know nothing about� � firearms, known drug houses, local dealers.

In the interrogation room, Jones was told he would be allowed a phone call once booked and processed, but he says his requests for legal counsel were repeatedly denied during what he approximates was six to eight hours at Homan Square.

�The only reason you�re brought to Homan and Fillmore is to extract information,� Jones said in an interview at his home, surrounded by his three small children and referring to the cross streets of the facility. �The police probably feel they need those covert operations because that�s the only way to get the intel they need instead of doing the good work � the hard work.

�It�s easy to just go grab someone, throw �em somewhere � no food, no water, no access to the outside world, intimidating and threatening �em,� he said.

Jones�s wife, who learned of his arrest via text message while her husband sat in a squad car, says she was given the �runaround� by police officers when she immediately began calling �every police station in town� to find him.

�How do they just get lost? That�s not fair to families,� Tramaine Jones said. �Imagine your kid, your family getting lost and you can�t find them.�

Tremaine Jones said she did not speak to her husband for more than 24 hours, because she could not find a public record of him.

�So if she wanted to call the lawyers who represent me she didn�t know where to send them to,� Charles Jones said. �I have that fear: any criminal case � anything that could happen, I�d be taken away from my family, my wife and my kids.�

Jones is currently suing the police for a separate incident related to Homan Square in June 2012, during which he says officers �charged me because I refused to give them information and cooperate with them�. The 2015 case is still pending.

Inside the Homan Square files is the story of M, who was detained at the warehouse for 14 hours in November 2007. He is one of 223 people for whom the Chicago police disclosed the length of detention at Homan Square � people whom police brought to a district station and then later moved to the warehouse. As attempts at contacting M did not succeed, the Guardian is not publishing his name.

Police arrested M the day before his 18th birthday. Disclosed Homan Square data say he was held for �issuance of a warrant�. When the Guardian checked M�s arrest record, it revealed that the warrant was for felony possession of a controlled substance: 0.7 grams of heroin that police found on him. (An iPhone 5S weighs 112 grams.)

Police insist there are �always records of anyone arrested by CPD, and this is no different at Homan Square�. But there is no indication on M�s publicly available arrest report that he spent any time at Homan Square at all. Mention of the facility does not appear by name or address. During the time M was at Homan Square, no one would have had any idea where he was.

M ultimately pleaded guilty. He was given community service and was placed on probation.

M was no big-time dealer, despite his detention at Homan lasting half a day. In its public statement, the police stated those �interviewed at Homan Square are lower-level arrests from the Narcotics unit�. Several ex-Homan Square detainees, like Jones, have told the Guardian that their detentions at the warehouse were out of proportion to their alleged crimes, if any � but calibrated to pressure them into becoming informants.

One of them is Rick Dresmann, a 50-year-old white man who fled Chicago after multiple stints at Homan Square. Dresmann said he feared that police would continue taking him to the facility until he became an informant, prompting him to move to California.

Dresmann, who lived in Chicago for 20 years, recalled that police told him �my life would be a lot easier if I gave them information � I�d be home with a nice long shower and all that bullshit�.

The data thus far show that the vast majority of those �lower-level� people detained at Homan Square would eventually be charged with drug offenses.

The police are still using Homan Square as a detention facility. At least 118 people have been taken there since 24 February, when the Guardian published its first article about the facility. The most recent Homan Square detention the police have confirmed occurred on 30 June.

At least 2,522 people who have been taken to Homan Square since Emanuel took office on 16 May 2011.

While the police data is incomplete, the disclosures thus far suggest an intensification of Homan Square usage under Emanuel. Approximately 70% of the Homan Square detentions the Chicago police acknowledge thus far have occurred under the current mayor. Emanuel�s current police superintendent, Garry McCarthy, attended a meeting on violence and policing in Washington on Monday.

Chicago police did not make McCarthy available for an in-person interview. The Guardian has also filed Freedom of Information Act requests for communications concerning Homan Square between the Chicago police and the mayor�s office.

Research by Rhone Talsma and Rose Diskin in Chicago, and the Guardian US interactive team in New York.

Some of these stories are patently horrifying, that someone could talk to a journalist and be retaliated against by the police. The contempt for the rule of law by those responsible for upholding it reduces the legitimacy of the police, they become merely another gang, men and women with guns. Is it any wonder that relations between the people and police are bad? The best way to fight crime, if that is your goal, is to start by not committing crimes. What seems to be the goal instead is to bully and abuse the black community, further vilifying them for all the crime in Chicago rather than the conditions of poverty that cause street crime to flourish.

Mandy Thompson fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Aug 6, 2015

# ? Aug 6, 2015 14:24

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:26

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

The police aren't imposing this kind of behaviour on a unified and defiant population. For various reasons there is a significant chunk of the populace - probably not a majority, but still a large and influential enough bloc to matter - who think that anyone who interacts regularly with the police is undeserving of any rights. Basically the logic runs that if you're a decent person you shouldn't have regular interactions with the cops and that if you do then the police are justified in taking extraordinary measures to protect society.

There's a pretty big intersection of police, political and media interests plus a long history of racism and hatred of the poor amongst the general population that enables this kind of policing.

# ? Aug 6, 2015 17:51

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Helsing posted:

The police aren't imposing this kind of behaviour on a unified and defiant population. For various reasons there is a significant chunk of the populace - probably not a majority, but still a large and influential enough bloc to matter - who think that anyone who interacts regularly with the police is undeserving of any rights. Basically the logic runs that if you're a decent person you shouldn't have regular interactions with the cops and that if you do then the police are justified in taking extraordinary measures to protect society.

There's a pretty big intersection of police, political and media interests plus a long history of racism and hatred of the poor amongst the general population that enables this kind of policing.

I don't know if Chicago does stop and frisk - on or off the books, but I think stop and frisk and the history of arbitrary searches are a significant cause not to believe that police interactions are a sign that "they must have done something wrong." But my guess is the people you are talking about are well off white people who never have to worry about police harassment.

# ? Aug 6, 2015 21:48

Woof Blitzer: Dec 29, 2012; [-]

No offense but kinda old news.

# ? Aug 6, 2015 23:07

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Equine Don posted:

No offense but kinda old news.

Well it was new to me. Doesn't mean it is unworthy of discussion

# ? Aug 7, 2015 00:36

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Mandy Thompson posted:

Well it was new to me. Doesn't mean it is unworthy of discussion

Forums poster MIGF already said in a public mayoral address that he's looking into it, what more do you want. :colbert:

# ? Aug 7, 2015 00:41

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Mandy Thompson posted:

I don't know if Chicago does stop and frisk - on or off the books, but I think stop and frisk and the history of arbitrary searches are a significant cause not to believe that police interactions are a sign that "they must have done something wrong." But my guess is the people you are talking about are well off white people who never have to worry about police harassment.

Some of them are well off and many are white and live in wealthier areas, but not all of them. In many cases it's the working poor - folks who may own their own home and car, hold down a lovely job, and are often the ones who live down the block from that one house where those people are always coming and going at all hours or blasting their music. They see appeals for sympathy toward those people as typical of out-of-touch wealthy liberals and tend to divide society along cultural or tribal lines rather than economic or class ones.

They may not be the "silent majority" but there are enough of them around to provide a base of support for a sort of right wing North American populism that seeks to unite the beleaguered "middle class" (usually but not exclusively white) in defense against the predations of both the out-of-touch meddling cultural elites and the sinister drug using underclass of moochers.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 00:45

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Forums poster MIGF already said in a public mayoral address that he's looking into it, what more do you want.

When you look into Chicago PD, the black sites seem quite tame and above-board compared to some of the other stuff.

Let's say you're a cop and this guy is pushing smack to kids in the 80's. Do you try to arrest him and watch and the system take months to get him off the street, or do you take him for a little ride over the lake?

The Chicago PD have ceased doing that as a matter of policy; it was goddamn hard as hell to get them to stop. What more do you want?

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:15

Job Truniht: Nov 7, 2012; MY POSTS ARE REAL RETARDED, SIR

B-b-but gun control has made the city so much safer and police department so much better! :qq:

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:21

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Job Truniht posted:

B-b-but gun control has made the city so much safer and police department so much better!

It has; while there's been an uptick of murders throughout the nation, Chicago continues to experience historically low rates of crime in all neighborhoods but for those of concentrated poverty.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:23

Job Truniht: Nov 7, 2012; MY POSTS ARE REAL RETARDED, SIR

My Imaginary GF posted:

It has; while there's been an uptick of murders throughout the nation, Chicago continues to experience historically low rates of crime in all neighborhoods but for those of concentrated poverty.

And it has one of the most fascist police departments in the entire country. I have this pet theory that, higher crime correlates to states with lax gun control laws, the worst police departments on the country are the places with the strictest gun control laws.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:26

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

My Imaginary GF posted:

When you look into Chicago PD, the black sites seem quite tame and above-board compared to some of the other stuff.

Let's say you're a cop and this guy is pushing smack to kids in the 80's. Do you try to arrest him and watch and the system take months to get him off the street, or do you take him for a little ride over the lake?

The Chicago PD have ceased doing that as a matter of policy; it was goddamn hard as hell to get them to stop. What more do you want?

Maybe cops focusing on real crimes for once instead of drugs, loose cigarettes, jaywalking, "spring-assist knives," etc.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:33

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

I see people on the internet bring up how black Americans are annihilating each other in Chicago and Obama doesn't care. How overinflated is this death toll of innocent people, that the President has been cold-hearted about?

# ? Aug 7, 2015 01:35

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

MaxxBot posted:

Maybe cops focusing on real crimes for once instead of drugs, loose cigarettes, jaywalking, "spring-assist knives," etc.

But then they might have to arrest white people.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 02:01

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

MaxxBot posted:

Maybe cops focusing on real crimes for once instead of drugs, loose cigarettes, jaywalking, "spring-assist knives," etc.

I know this may be hard for you to understand; in Chicago, murder is a real crime, MaxxBot, even when it happens to black people.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 02:28

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

My Imaginary GF posted:

I know this may be hard for you to understand; in Chicago, murder is a real crime, MaxxBot, even when it happens to black people.

Yeah, because the article in the OP sure is talking about people guilty of murder :downs:

I guess marijuana smoking and seatbeltless driving are gateway crimes to murder right?

# ? Aug 7, 2015 05:58

C.M. Kruger: Oct 28, 2013

Any word on if the NYPD/Bloomberg are running a black site torture facility too?

# ? Aug 7, 2015 06:50

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

C.M. Kruger posted:

Any word on if the NYPD/Bloomberg are running a black site torture facility too?

Basically all of Rikers Island.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 08:12

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Nonsense posted:

I see people on the internet bring up how black Americans are annihilating each other in Chicago and Obama doesn't care. How overinflated is this death toll of innocent people, that the President has been cold-hearted about?

This claims 459 homicides in 2014, of which 353 had black victims. Most of them do not have anyone charged, though of those that do (of the black victims), the suspect is apparently black in all cases (excepting the 14 police shootings, and the one self-defense).

Haven't seen this site before. It's a little tasteless, but there does seem to be a lot of data.

Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Aug 7, 2015

# ? Aug 7, 2015 09:42

Plastics: Aug 7, 2015

All police are agents of the government, and the government is not a pleasant entity or one which has our interests at heart. There is no surprise here. This has always happened and it will always happen until we get rid of governments completely.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 18:59

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

Plastics posted:

All police are agents of the government, and the government is not a pleasant entity or one which has our interests at heart. There is no surprise here. This has always happened and it will always happen until we get rid of governments completely.

I'm pretty sure that getting rid of the government would be worse then even this.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 21:08

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/8_5_2015_16_10.html

quote:

Ten years ago, when we stopped a suspect in a black neighborhood, that person had two choices: Run or comply,� said a Chicago cop. �But now more and more suspects are refusing to comply with lawful orders to take their hands out of their pockets, or produce a driver�s license, or answer simple questions about what they are doing in that neighborhood with a bulging backpack at 1:30 a.m. And they know we can�t or won�t do anything about it. Defiance is now the rule.

Oh no, we can no longer prosecute the crime of being in the wrong neighborhood with a BULGING BACKPACK :qq:

. What kind of person walks around with a backpack full of things at the unholy hour of 1:30AM? Certainly not something white people would ever do, clearly this is evidence of a serious crime going down.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 21:12

Scrub-Niggurath: Nov 27, 2007

C.M. Kruger posted:

Any word on if the NYPD/Bloomberg are running a black site torture facility too?

we just send everyone to rikers and let it sort em out

# ? Aug 7, 2015 21:15

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

I heard from a girl working with prosecutors for the summer that public defenders are fine with the site because they can use the site to meet defendants without alerting gangs in the county jail. I think that�s some self-serving bullshit but it's all just gossip anyway.

Equine Don posted:

No offense but kinda old news.

The number of arrests and the makeup of those arrests is new and fascinating. The very small number of Latinos passing through Homan Square and the large number of heroin possession charges is weird. Black gang members probably make up most of the dealers but heroin importation into Chicago is done by Mexican gangs. Homan is on the west side right by black neighborhoods, but the story about the guy from the south side makes it seem like suspects are brought there from across the city.

It makes me paranoid there is either another site for Latino suspects or that local police also have deals with members of the Sinaloa cartel like the Feds do.

My Imaginary GF posted:

When you look into Chicago PD, the black sites seem quite tame and above-board compared to some of the other stuff.

Let's say you're a cop and this guy is pushing smack to kids in the 80's. Do you try to arrest him and watch and the system take months to get him off the street, or do you take him for a little ride over the lake?

The Chicago PD have ceased doing that as a matter of policy; it was goddamn hard as hell to get them to stop. What more do you want?

Chicago cops don�t dump people they don�t like into the lake anymore, they just drive them into rival gang territory and announce their presence to everyone .

# ? Aug 7, 2015 23:03

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Plastics posted:

All police are agents of the government, and the government is not a pleasant entity or one which has our interests at heart. There is no surprise here. This has always happened and it will always happen until we get rid of governments completely.

I am mostly indifferent to whether or not there is a government, I am not sure what the alternative would be. Even if we were to eliminate poverty and inequality there are always going to be messed up people in the world who need to be checked, man made emergencies that need to be responded to by first responders who can take charge. I don't love police officers and I have been enraged but what I have seen but we do need someone to perform many of their functions.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 23:05

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Atrocious Joe posted:

Chicago cops don�t dump people they don�t like into the lake anymore, they just drive them into rival gang territory and announce their presence to everyone .

Good god, what the gently caress is wrong with this city? More and more this city seems very corrupt and I am wondering why people have gotten away with it so long.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 23:11

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

MaxxBot posted:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/08/8_5_2015_16_10.html

Oh no, we can no longer prosecute the crime of being in the wrong neighborhood with a BULGING BACKPACK . What kind of person walks around with a backpack full of things at the unholy hour of 1:30AM? Certainly not something white people would ever do, clearly this is evidence of a serious crime going down.

If the police didn't demonstrate contempt for the rule of law or cover for the misconduct of other police officers they would probably see more compliance. What they do instead completely sabotages any trust the community might have. I am a white woman and based on what I have seen even I am afraid of police because they don't follow the rules. Legitimacy is the difference between a cop and an rear end in a top hat with a gun.

# ? Aug 7, 2015 23:13

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

My Imaginary GF posted:

It has; while there's been an uptick of murders throughout the nation, Chicago continues to experience historically low rates of crime in all neighborhoods but for those of concentrated poverty.

What an incredibly lovely defence of your cities horrible crime problem.

My city has a larger population than Chicago and about one fifth of the murders. And my city isn't exactly a bastion of fairness and equality, it's just that the culture and politics of America are turning your society into a real life version of Mad Max.

# ? Aug 8, 2015 00:08

snorch: Jul 27, 2009

Mandy Thompson posted:

If the police didn't demonstrate contempt for the rule of law or cover for the misconduct of other police officers they would probably see more compliance. What they do instead completely sabotages any trust the community might have. I am a white woman and based on what I have seen even I am afraid of police because they don't follow the rules. Legitimacy is the difference between a cop and an rear end in a top hat with a gun.

I'd invite you to the cop thread but it's been shut down because it broke too many people's brains.

# ? Aug 8, 2015 00:34

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Honestly only some of black population of Chicago lives in something resembling Mad Max, and that only fits well if you classify the police as warboys.

These maps are a bit old but they get the point across.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chicago_violent_crime_map.png

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicag...ent?oid=3221712

# ? Aug 8, 2015 00:37

MaxxBot: Oct 6, 2003; you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

Mandy Thompson posted:

If the police didn't demonstrate contempt for the rule of law or cover for the misconduct of other police officers they would probably see more compliance. What they do instead completely sabotages any trust the community might have. I am a white woman and based on what I have seen even I am afraid of police because they don't follow the rules. Legitimacy is the difference between a cop and an rear end in a top hat with a gun.

Walking around in a strange neighborhood at 1:30AM with a stuffed backpack was called "college" for me and many other people. Maybe if they stopped trying to question people over mundane, everyday activities that would help with compliance also.

# ? Aug 8, 2015 04:38

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Atrocious Joe posted:

Chicago cops don�t dump people they don�t like into the lake anymore, they just drive them into rival gang territory and announce their presence to everyone .

quote:

The cops leave me there and they just take off in their car. Now it�s just me and about 12 GDs. One of the guys comes over to me. He says, �You know that�s hosed up what those assholes just did. We ain�t finna even do nothin. That�s just hosed up.� The guy who I�ve seen before, his name is like Jerrell or something like that. We seen each other around the neighborhood like for years. He�s a good guy. He reaches into his pocket and gives me $20 dollars. �Hey man, take this and get a cab to get you back home.

The loving gangsters have more self awareness than the police.

I had to look up finna: Fixing to do something. Going to act., etc.

Pohl fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Aug 8, 2015

# ? Aug 8, 2015 16:35

Abner Cadaver II: Apr 21, 2009; TONIGHT!

My Imaginary GF posted:

It has; while there's been an uptick of murders throughout the nation, Chicago continues to experience historically low rates of crime in all neighborhoods but for those of concentrated poverty.

Segregation really works! :cop:

# ? Aug 8, 2015 16:44

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

My Imaginary GF posted:

When you look into Chicago PD, the black sites seem quite tame and above-board compared to some of the other stuff.

Let's say you're a cop and this guy is pushing smack to kids in the 80's. Do you try to arrest him and watch and the system take months to get him off the street, or do you take him for a little ride over the lake?

The Chicago PD have ceased doing that as a matter of policy; it was goddamn hard as hell to get them to stop. What more do you want?

Do you have a link about the Chicago police drowning suspects? I was having trouble finding it on google.

# ? Aug 8, 2015 17:08

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

Mandy Thompson posted:

Do you have a link about the Chicago police drowning suspects? I was having trouble finding it on google.

Why search for things that probably didn't happen when you have plenty of terrible things that are well documented?

Like systematic torture. The leader of which is out of prison by the way.

# ? Aug 8, 2015 18:00

Scrub-Niggurath: Nov 27, 2007

Pohl posted:

The loving gangsters have more self awareness than the police.

I had to look up finna: Fixing to do something. Going to act., etc.

That's actually a pretty great story

# ? Aug 8, 2015 18:16

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Atrocious Joe posted:

Why search for things that probably didn't happen when you have plenty of terrible things that are well documented?

Like systematic torture. The leader of which is out of prison by the way.

Thanks!

# ? Aug 8, 2015 19:48

Big Hubris: Mar 8, 2011

Pohl posted:

The loving gangsters have more self awareness than the police.

Gangs in America start because cops are The Kind Folk.

# ? Aug 9, 2015 04:48

Greataval: Mar 26, 2010

If you don't view the cops as the enemy after evrything you see reported just think of everything not getting reported. Then i don't even loving know anymore.

# ? Aug 9, 2015 18:15

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# ? Apr 23, 2024 20:26

Plastics: Aug 7, 2015

Greataval posted:

If you don't view the cops as the enemy after evrything you see reported just think of everything not getting reported. Then i don't even loving know anymore.

Well you could try obeying the laws...

# ? Aug 10, 2015 01:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Chicago maintains a secret police black site, torture suspects,deny counsel

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