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First, a link to what started this: https://stupidbus.wordpress.com A realistic simulation of what driving a bus on the freeway feels like. This first post is essentially going to be a copy/paste of the stupidbus blog, but that's what it's for. Image dump of how I found it in his yard:     (the worst of the rust, don't know what do do about it)    quote:I’m just a guy, who currently lives in Phoenix, that wants a VW bus. I found one…in Portland, OR. All of the buses I could find in the Arizona or California craigslist and TheSamba were fairly overpriced for what they were (“rust free!” <shows pictures of rusted out undercarriage>), or had been involved in one too many fender benders. First, a quick video of its first start in probably 10+ months: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtSqk3h_y1c The bus had clearly been sitting under a tree for nearly a year, as there was a receipt for $1500 in the glovebox stating brand new carbs in 09/2014, and the ones on the engine themselves literally didn't have any fuel in the float bowls they were so new. I did a quick eyeball throttle plate sync, and it fired right up. Then, after shutting down and re-checking the oil level, I paid the guy his money and drove off. There are a few rust spots, mainly the driver's side runners/rockers/whatever (the thing you call the lowest part of the side of the body, between the front and rear wheels, mainly the rear wheel) and a small 1-2" hole in the passenger rear wheel well. Plus whatever's around the windshield (I'm told those are always really bad). But the rest is pretty okay. Not great, but okay.  I was pulled over in Oregon for not having a travel permit, even though I had a bill of sale and title. Whatever, $30 and four hours later and I had a travel permit.  First oil leak, evident after only two miles.   His wiring job was top notch. One of these is 12v, and one is the radio antenna line. I'll give you two guesses as to which one is the +12v line. Hint: it's not what you think.  (it's the radio antenna plug sitting on the ground. The one in duct tape is the antenna) Not rust: Mold.  The bus already had a fire extinguisher in it, brand new. Good call, PO.   Stocking up on cheap things I think I may need:  I sat in this parking lot for seven or eight hours, going back and forth between Autozone and Harbor Freight for tools and parts. I ended up using almost none of what I bought, but it was good to have. For instance, I bought a fuel pump ($50) just in case, but the pump on the bus didn't start making a knocking noise/fail until I had to do the alcohol trick, as shown later on, for emissions. So, still good to have. I only ended up using a flathead screwdriver, one set of pliers, and the jacks/jackstands, for adjusting the rear drum brakes/star adjusters. I got the brakes working well, but the e-brake is still  .      (moved to side of lot)  I did meet a girl working in a little highway offramp side-town in a bicycle shop, and she owned this Westfalia. I really, deep down, want a westy, but they are SUPER EXPENSIVE compared to tintops.    Not good, finding these in the glovebox  The ad said this came with a "Z-bed," but the rotten pile of plywood and vinyl I still have sitting in the back of the bus doesn't resemble a bed as much as it resembles a beginner's compost pile. Totally a non-value, and if anybody wants the rusty hinges or something before I throw it away Saturday, let me know, because it is seriously nasty. I can and will make something much better with particle board, padding, piano hinges, and basic vinyl upholstery. Simple design and all that. All it needs to be is something an inch or two padded that you can fold up and straight (with legs/whatever) that you can throw a blanket on. I don't need a 6" thick mattress, this will be a work bus that I also can camp in.       I had an oil leak from the outset, but 90% of it was taken care of by putting a new seal in the dipstick clamp, and RTV'ing the poo poo out of the oil filler neck thing (rubber is old and expanded). A new filler neck is on order.  If anybody knows common oil leak spots, I did lose about 3-4 quarts total over 1600 miles. The oil leaked slow enough to not show much change on the dipstick between fillups, but fast enough to make the bottom of the engine (especially on the driver's side, burning on the cylinder heads enough that if I turned on the heat the cabin got smoky, until I disconnected the driver's side heater tube) and splatter the rear of the bus with oil over the course of the trip. Definitely leaking it, not burning it. Has the spare tire cover!  And a nearly-new spare tire (2014)  But the ones on the bus are from 2004 The bus clearly has been five or so different colors (with decals or something on one of them) in the past. My plan is to sand/strip and repaint white on top and some color (yellow, orange, or brown, maybe?) on the bottom.         The bumpers are bent, but not so badly I couldn't fix these myself.    Washing the roof was a 30-minute pain in the rear end all by itself  For the rust, I'm thinking of picking up a 110v Harbor Freight welder and practicing a bit, buying an angle grinder, then going to town. Ultimateforce, is this a bad idea Y/Y? And I got it to pass emissions! After only 9 tries    Right now I'm dealing with a weak battery. I need to throw a voltmeter on it and see if it's charging. I think it is, because it got better while driving, but after sitting for 12 hours on shift it barely started and would drag the engine down and misfire in cadence with the turn signals, or if I turned the heater fan on (to test). The battery in it is all corroded and leaky, so I need to remove it anyway because acid eats these things alive. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 11:18
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:21 |
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Bought and installed a new battery, because...yeah. 
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Aug 8, 2015 22:52
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Complete gasket kit on order, along with: Drag link Retracting seatbelts Tie rod ends (4) Center shaft and bushings Hubcaps (I lost one  )Rear rocker panel steel Door seal (expensive!) Electronic ignition (Compu-fire, served my beetle well for over a year / 10,000 miles now with no problems) ABS Interior Panels (doors, sliding door, middle bench panel - rear panels will be custom with certain things) CV Axles Master Cylinder Brake Booster Door Handles (so they all match) All new light glass The only hiccup so far: both the center door hinge and the brake booster show "delivered at parcel box", but they haven't been. Started a claim with USPS already. And the pushrod tubes are removable w/o removing the head, unlike on the 1600DP, right?
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Aug 9, 2015 19:20
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You, too, can have an easily sliding door if you simply clean out the cup of old grease and sand in the tracks (and purchase a not-broken U-hinge piece) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFsb4nlomR0
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Aug 10, 2015 22:07
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I used a silicone chain lube spray 
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Aug 10, 2015 22:13
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I put some on a rag and wiped it in all three channels, to avoid overspray. And sandpaper cures many things  , right?
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Aug 11, 2015 01:30
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We drive 1,600 miles together, and I spend over $1,000 on parts for you, and this is how you repay me?  [       Only the rearmost pushrod tube has oil on it, and it's fresh.  Coming from up here. Around the cooling fan it is also fresh with wet oil, but the fan itself is dry. Only the bottom of the oil filter is wet with oil - the sides are still dry. The spatter pattern on the water leads me to believe it was being violently thrown out. I have no idea where it's coming from. There's fresh oil on the mustache bracket below the alternator, which doesn't make sense to me. I went to start it up, and there were a few pops and it ran on 3 cylinders for a little bit (it does that sometimes for 10 seconds or so), just like normal, and then suddenly there's a big blue butt behind me and the oil light is on unless I rev it (I immediately turned it off). There is no oil left on the dipstick. It was dripping, hell, pouring down. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 02:42
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No pictures (dark) but report 2: Backside of the fan itself is dry, but there is oil on the edges of the fan blade towards the rear of the fan/front of the car. The fan hub is dry, but the block behind it is soaked with oil, from top to bottom, from oil cooler to alternator. There is oil pooled in the fan shroud itself. Oil is actively (with the engine off, 30 minutes later) dripping from what seems to be the oil fill to engine block gasket area, but I can't be sure, because it appears the oil is draining down from the side of the gasket and dripping off of the bottom, if it is coming from the gasket itself or dripping from even higher. The top of the engine is dry. The near side of the oil cooler is wet with oil, and the top of the oil cooler where it rests against a tin of some sort is also wet, but the sides and bottom of it (relative to the ground) are dry. The area it mounts to the engine is wet. Both of the large (left side) and single small (right side) oil gallery plug behind the fan are intact and not bulging at all.
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Aug 12, 2015 03:41
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Aug 12, 2015 03:56
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Posting here for notes to myself. Possible areas to check out: Oil pressure sender (unlikely, top is dry, but should check out) Distributor O-ring (could it leak this catastrophically) Rear main seal (the one behind the fan, unlikely as fan is dry) Dipstick tube seal (looks good from underneath, but should order another in any case) Oil fill tube (need to pull rear three tin pieces) Oil cooler If anybody else has any other ideas my ears are open.
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Aug 12, 2015 04:20
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I'm hoping the engine is still okay because I shut it down fast, but you never know. E: My next day off (Monday, I decided to take Wednesday as an O/T day) I should have the engine gasket kit in by then, and my plan is to remove the fan shroud (without removing the exhaust - I'm told this is possible but difficult based on a few hours of thesamba.com research), remove the oil cooler, remove pressure sender and distributor, inspect everything, and wash it all off with brake cleaner/carb cleaner/whatever I have. If the leak isn't obvious by then, I'll continue to change every gasket I can get to without dropping the engine, and fire it back up full of oil, with somebody watching. The great thing now is that the starter motor is super weak even with the brand new battery (and it is charged up - I have a tender installed) so maybe it is a bad connection or maybe I need to drop $50 on a new starter as well. We'll see. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 06:23
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More notes for myself, and others if they're crazy like me, too. It rained tonight in Phoenix so I went outside around 0100 before heading to bed to see if it washed away the I don't know if it's from all of the alcohol I ran, or because they're made by EMPI, or because there's still probably a lot of crud in the gas tank, but the float needles have (hopefully temporarily) failed, and filled the crankcase with gasoline. Right as I got out there the leaking was just stopping, but not before dumping probably another gallon on the ground. I clamped off the gas line with some smooth vice grips, and got underneath with a flashlight to check things out. I tried tracing the leak upwards, but I can't see beyond the oil fill gasket and I don't know if that's what is causing it or if it's originating from up higher. Since I was outside, I decided to pull the distributor and check the oil pressure switch (right next to each other) up top to see if they were leaking. I also pulled the plate behind the fan to check there, but from what it looks like, that seal (while hard as a rock) isn't the culprit. I'll still replace it eventually though. Unfortunately, neither of the first two were, either, so I can scratch those off of the list. quote:Possible areas to check out: Leaning on the back of the bus and working through the porthole compressed the shocks, though, and the leak started back up, this time with oil-tainted gasoline. And boy it was leaking fast. In less than a minute about half a cup of inky, black, thin-as-water gasoline oil leaked out into the tupperware container I placed. I rushed back underneath to check it out, but I couldn't trace it upwards any more than I could see, which is again the underside of the oil fill tube. But something did happen that may help later after removing the fan shroud and alternator bracket: the gas/oil cleaned up the previously black areas of the engine (as I've always had a slow leak somewhere that makes everything black/sticky). Even if I can't get it to leak again by pouring UV-tinted oil into the crankcase (my next plan), I can trace the hopefully now clean trail up to the source. Unless there's some wizardry going on with the leak transferring from one side of the engine to the other (always a possibility), then it's definitely coming from the rear passenger side area, probably between the fan and the alternator. E: note for later - check pickup tube galley/gallery (which one is it? Google gives 50/50 results, and a galley is a kitchen, but whatever) plug. It's the only one on the rear of the engine I haven't checked, and is right next to the oil pump, righthand side, right where I THINK oil is leaking from. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 10:03
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GotDAMN bus parts are expensive.
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Aug 15, 2015 11:16
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My prize!  The mess:  Dude seriously packed it well.
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Aug 16, 2015 10:18
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Turns out the oil was full of gasoline, and I can't find a specific oil leak point. I'm replacing right now (inside to cool off, because it's 115 and I'm outside in the sun) the oil cooler seals (tested the cooler by filling it with water and holding pressure, it's not split hopefully), fan seal (bad juju, the aluminum surround holding 60 degrees of the arc around the seal broke off, but I'm working on it), oil fill/dipstick seals and gaskets (oil fill has been brazed before by the previous owner) and anything else I can find. I also verified the thermostat works.
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Aug 18, 2015 00:06
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Yeah I'm assuming I hosed the float valves (or one got stuck open) from the alcohol emissions test thing. I bought and am going to install today a fuel shutoff solenoid, too. Even after the mess I took the oil cooler off a few hours ago and it was full of essentially pure gasoline
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Aug 18, 2015 00:38
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My home for the past two days: I have used up a year of  Keep these moldy panels in mind for the next update:  The best clothing to wear is free army clothing. I have so many tan shirts  The official uniform pants for the shadetree mechanic  It doesn't look like it, but this is 100 times cleaner than it was before:  When you've torn up the foam engine seal, and all you have is copper RTV, everything starts to look like it SHOULD HAVE ORIGINALLY BEEN RUBBER ANYWAY SO gently caress IT LET'S DO IT LIVE  I'M SO GLAD THE TIMING MARKS ARE STILL INTACT AND NOT FADED IN ANY WAY  FUUUUUUUUCK IT IS HOT 
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Aug 18, 2015 20:27
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Good and bad news! Good news! It runs! Bad news! Oil smoke comes out in distinct puffs from the tailpipe
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Aug 18, 2015 22:15
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Raluek posted:I don't know ACVWs at all, how is the fuel pump run? If it's a pushrod-actuated diaphragm dealie like a SBC, that is a gasoline-into-crankcase ingress point. All it takes is a hole in the diaphragm, from alternative fuels perhaps? It had a mechanical one, but it's been blocked off and I'm using a carter electric one (the autozone electric one it had during the trip was LOUD AS gently caress. I have a feeling there is/was a stuck float valve. Update! After setting the idle timing to 7.5 degreesISH* BTDC, and ensuring it doesn't move past 32 degreesISH* BTDC at 3k rpm in the Harbor Freight parking lot using a HF timing light and a vague idea of where the timing marks go, I drove it around and got some gas. For the first half of the trip or so it was smoking people out at stoplights, and smoking badly on deceleration, and a big puff on acceleration. I drove around some more after getting gas and the smoking started to subside, and now it's minimal, at least once it's warmed up. Maybe the floats are bad on the carbs and/or the electric pump (a 3 psi one) was overpowering the floats. I'll have to let it cool down and start it up tomorrow to double check. On the way backing out of the parking space, I ran over my nearly-new bottle of Kroil spray  extreme_accordion posted:^fixed. Extremely. *ISH because my timing marks and scale are gone so I spent 30 minutes studying a good straight-on photo of a scale and measuring and poo poo to mark on my own with an awl. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 01:40
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16th and osborn area
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Aug 19, 2015 04:51
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Today I tackled the jalousie windows. Took off the old windows. Okay.  DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT poo poo gently caress WELDING   Turns out that I'm "the PO," except I care about wiring things properly and strain relief. Can't be arsed about a hole in the window frame. Don't shoot me. I don't really have pics of the process, because it was SO EASY, but you use a razor blade to pull the old window seal out, pop the windows, clean up the frame, drill a bunch of holes (I had 14 each window, five across top/bottom, two front/back) in the frame REALLY CLOSE to the edge of the metal, and push the new windows in.   I used stainless screws and stainless washers/lock washers, because gently caress YOU    Remember those old, moldy interior panels? Here's some pics from earlier: I got some replacements. Super easy to install, and cut pretty closely.   The sliding door panel is so much nicer. And these are all easily removeable with the philips/molly screw combination going on.  GOODBYE!  GOOD-BYE!!! AAAAHHHHHH gently caress YOU MOLDY poo poo  Seriously easy fitting. I did have a smooth hole bit from HF that I used on every hole to help center, but I don't blame the panel maker as much as you think. Very good stuff and pattern.   I also used an accidentally-ordered second set of window winders/cranks for the beetle and put them on. You have to trim their length as the bus ones are a lot shallower and the beetle ones have the splined area recessed, but an angle grinder takes care of that. A plastic trim ring hides the shame.   After I did all of this, I checked the mail, and something special came in today while I was working  Fancy NOS-style box...  Scrawled-on part number...  Wolfsburg seal...   BABLAM!  One of those "wow, this is cheap" auctions that turned quickly into "this is more expensive than I care to admit" auctions.
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Aug 20, 2015 03:25
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And if anybody in AZ needs the side glass for a bus, let me know. The vent windows are also intact but not functional, as the vent frames are rusted to poo poo and the bottom pins (look replaceable) are gone. I don't have the back five panels yet because they're kind of expensive ($40 or so apiece and shipping is killer) and I think I can make three or four of them fairly easily. But it's currently the "cargo" area so whatever. 
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Aug 20, 2015 03:31
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I think it was that and a combination of bad/rusted seals and frames, especially around the vents. The mold on (especially the passenger) door cards is from the lack of vapor barrier in places, and the complete lack of it on the passenger side. Remember, this entire bus was covered in mold from top to bottom when I first got it, in the early pics. I had to scrub for quite awhile to get it off, and there are some places it remains. I feel guilty about the one big hole on the driver's side window frame, but I don't have a welder and <not shown> I removed all of the rusty bits until fresh metal, and primered it and then put kroil in the areas the RTV wouldn't touch, just in case. At least with these new panels I can access the area behind them really easily.
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Aug 20, 2015 04:13
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Don't tell the HOA. I like my townhouse. Wish I had a garage, though. I searched for a good big-enough storage unit but I couldn't find one.
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Aug 20, 2015 07:55
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Double posting here: I bought a new starter because the old one was weak (even bought a new battery), but after doing the oil seals the starter works like new, because I inadvertently cleaned the ground points 
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Aug 23, 2015 05:34
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I installed some new lenses and a fan cover (lens base OE VW from JustKampers.com - pretty cheap considering it came from the UK)  My 6-foot Blazecut fire suppression system came in, so I installed that (not pictured, just imagine a 3/4 inch white plastic tube zip-tied to the roof of the engine compartment) And, because I'm feeling cocky, I decided to name the bus:  Bad taste, but a good joke. Unless it actually catches fire.
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Aug 25, 2015 02:23
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Driving to the parts store for some bulbs yesterday, spider crawled across the dashboard...  
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Aug 25, 2015 23:05
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I found out where my brake fluid was going (because the only liquid dripped is oil) BUT... should my brake booster canister be full of fluid? J/K I know it's terrible I have a brand new one ready
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Aug 27, 2015 02:51
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All right so the hose that goes from the upper reservoir to the lower one had a rubber sheet/ring sealing it to the lower reservoir tube, and I tore that, and now I can't get the plastic hose to seal against the plastic reservoir barb. Options: A: Use fuel line between the two (don't think it's compatible) B: Use eight stacked O-rings or something instead of the 1/3 inch rubber sheet thing C: Source an old part. Leaning towards B here. Also, the brakes had better work beautifully, because I have replaced all of the vacuum lines. Question: On the front and rear brakes, there are two brake bleeder nozzles, one on the top and one on the bottom. Which one do I bleed with?
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Aug 27, 2015 04:47
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      I'm happy with this print, and how it fits the parts. Just need to wire it up to have a second (house) battery.
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Aug 27, 2015 05:59
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Okay I fixed the fill, but I have a leak in the master cylinder. Fluid is coming out from here: I tried reseating it, and checking o-rings, but this is a constant, slow drip. One big drip every five seconds or so that I can stop by putting my finger over it. Pumping the brakes does not make it worse. Is there supposed to be a plug for this hole, or is this a faulty cylinder, or what?
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Aug 27, 2015 07:31
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Installed the second new master cylinder, no leaks so far. But I don't have the vice or setup to bench bleed it, so I did my best with an in-car bleed using a one-man system with a vacuum pump/reservoir. Pedal feel is better than before with the old busted one, but still can't get it to stiffen up like I want to. I know there's more to it left, because I can pump it firm with the engine off. Engine on and I get a lot of squish. Probably just going to buy another 32 oz of brake fluid and try again and again. I remember on the subaru I had to do it like three times total to get all of the air out. In the meantime, I'm using a tube jack to hold the pedal down (engine off) after pumping a few times overnight.
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Aug 30, 2015 11:27
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The reservoir is inside the cab, the one on the cylinder is inaccessible when installed
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Aug 30, 2015 12:02
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I used a bottle jack to put pressure on the brake pedal for the last 24 hours, occasionally coming out to apply additional pressure every eight hours or so. Today, brakes work much better. Still clearly need to bleed them a bit (nothing nothing nothing ALL THE BRAKES) but still with these half-bled brakes they're better than the other ones were stock. Something something functioning master cylinder and brake booster and non-leaky brake booster vacuum lines and a vacuum check valve installed that wasn't there before. No pictures (started raining pretty heavily) but I installed the second battery and ACR/combining switch. Works well!
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Sep 1, 2015 03:35
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Where my bus was parked earlier, then I decided to move it as the storm started. Lucky choice.
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Sep 1, 2015 04:58
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Yesterday I replaced the driver's side pushrod tube seals.  So far, no leaks.   Installed the battery switch and ACR yesterday. Too bad the inverter I bought (wagan 700w) was DOA (shorted inputs, probably bad MOSFET)     I like my chrome hubcap And before you jump on me, Kastein, the electrical tape is in no way structural, just something I did at the desk while a little drunk because my inebriated mind thought "Additional scuff protection? gently caress yes!" completely forgetting about nasty melted adhesive. On most of the crimps I put adhesive-lined 20 mil heatshrink. In fact the only two ends that don't have it are the pos battery connections in the picture, because...I forgot? Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 2, 2015 |
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Sep 1, 2015 23:59
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Oil leaks so far: Valve cover gaskets (replaced, known good fix) Rear fan hub seal (replaced, also JB-welded the cast aluminum seal surround, as it was showing stress cracks after pounding in the new seal in a few places, known good fix) Oil separator box gasket (replaced, known good fix) Driver's side pushrod tubes (replaced - they were all different colors, red, green, black, known good fix) Oil cooler seals (replaced, unknown if fixed, it's buried in there good)
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Sep 2, 2015 00:27
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Preface: these photos are on something that isn't imgur, because it's Labor Day and imgur/reddit are completely broken, and have been all day, so these may not work in the future. Good job, guys! Today was Stereo Day! And by stereo, I mean a literal $20 headunit that has USB/SD/AUX and...pretty much nothing else. Wait! It also has a bright blue clock that doesn't dim at all. For reference, this particular Chinese variation of the headunit is called the "SSL M39USA." Whatever. See, it has USB! And...buttons...  Showcasing the true master build quality that "SSL" is known for.  For speakers, I used some old 2.5x4" Sony speakers I ripped out of a home theater system. I wasn't looking for quality, just something to make sound so I don't have to wear earbuds on the way to work. As I did with the Beetle, a proper stereo will be incoming once I have the funds. But for now, this works, and I fused everything so if something goes wrong hopefully it doesn't burn the bus down. First step is removing the old stereo: Oh...oh no. Look at those clips! There's no cage, is there?   Continually falling prices written in paint pen are a good sign, right?  Final price: Ten O'clock The duct tape is the previous owner. The electrical tape is my emergency roadside fix for a random short that was happening during the drive down from Portland.  (not pictured: his homemade adapter that wired switched 12v directly to the center pin of the antenna. Used a spade connector and everything. No wonder the stereo never worked) To the trash with ye!  <blink>SIDE PROJECT APPROACHING</blink> While the dash was open, I decided to throw in the new speedometer, as well as fix the burnt out dash bulbs. Oh god!  OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE  Actually, it wasn't that bad. Also, it became immediately clear why the odometer didn't work:  The biggest question is: where are the pieces to the odometer gear? The speedometer is in an enclosed, sealed box and if the gear broke off while functioning there would be broken gear pieces laying in the bottom. Also, where is the grease that was on the gear? Why is the shaft cleaned? You mean to suggest to me that the previous owner, or one of the five before him, intentionally used a broken speedometer? I don't believe you, nobody would be that despicable, or lazy. No sir! Fast forward about 10 minutes, the new speedo and bulbs are in:  It got dark, and my phone is absolute poo poo at dark photos (HTC  ) but I did snap a pic of the antenna connector before coming inside. The nursing staff and I did the best we could to save him; from this point forward, whether or not he survives is up to how much he wants to live.
Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 03:44
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mafoose posted:I've heard of gears in vdo stuff become anything from goo to dust. This is a pex/abs mix that starts to glass at around 190 deg C. The blazecut will burst before this melts, though it may distort a bit from heat.
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Sep 8, 2015 03:57
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Even though printer manufacturers claim otherwise, I like to think of it as a .1mm three dimensional grid. I mean, I printed some m10x1.25 threading that worked fine, but anything smaller and I like to run a tap through it. Shoot me the files (either PM a link or to klintor unt gmail) and I'll see what they print up to. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 05:07
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