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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Camrath posted:

StarwarsMUSH

Whoa. You're the first person I've ever met out in the rest of the world who was on that. I was active for about 3 years in high school, probably ~1999-2001.

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Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Cyrano4747 posted:

Whoa. You're the first person I've ever met out in the rest of the world who was on that. I was active for about 3 years in high school, probably ~1999-2001.

Holy poo poo. Then our times crossed over. I was Kizuka on there, in the Empire from like 2000 or so.

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?
Holy poo poo, I was on GarouMUSH back in the day, though not for very long. I remember they took forever to approve applications.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Xenocides posted:

One other thing I have found.

LARPing (without physically skilled combat) and tabletop RPGs in general are some of the few activities you can participate in that everyone can convince themselves they are good at. There are no overt winners or losers. You end up with socially deficient idiots convinced they are machiavellian masterminds, uncharismatic dolts convinced they are masters of dark sensuality, and on and on. It is like the dumb kid who found Doom, turned on God mode, and assumed he was a skilled video game player.

In most other hobby activities if you are bad at something you will find out quickly. You can't windsurf or play tennis, play a tabletop boardgame, without eventually finding out how good you are at it. Most people take their amateurish status in these activities in stride with a dose of humility and get better or not and just enjoy the activity for the sheer fun of it. With RPGs and Vampire LARPs that never comes up.

Man, you nailed it right there.

I had a mid life crisis a few years back and wanted to start playing D&D again just to recapture some lost part of my youth but the ratio of insufferable, sweaty nerds out on some abstract power trip versus actual, functional human beings just looking to roll some dice and have a little fun was way too daunting. I can't even imagine what it must be like for groups of people who take it to the next level - beyond pencil and paper.

I'd say 4 out of 5 or 9 out of 10 of the people I met through the local meetup groups were in need of serious help, and this is coming from an alcoholic and a drug addict.

Xenocides
Jan 14, 2008

This world looks very scary....


CheeseThief posted:

That one shot sounds like a lot of fun! It gives me the feeling that there's a lot of unspoken context information involved in LARPing that is both a product of what a game is and what it will grow to be, something like "younger players get to play the eldest characters" sends a certain message to players and how they interact with the game. So when you've got a lifer running the show the message and context of the game will carry their, uh, I don't have a good word here. Politics? Basically I'm saying LARP suffers from feedback loops where lifers will consume the game due to their dedication and then cultivate an atmosphere that breeds lifers. Things get as bad as they do because their microculture will become increasingly self serving and appealing to people who want a slice of that.

And Vampire LARP is probably one of the worst games for it. In most tabletop RPGs the players are relatively evenly-matched and are expected to cooperate on some level. In Vampire Pen and Paper there is a little more oneupmanship but it usually develops a kind of family dynamic; the "I can mess with my siblings but if anyone from outside does we all come down on you". In a LARP it is more 'dog eat dog' and characters are very unequal in power. This can add to the game so long as the people with power are adding to the fun and, while playing a character, act to keep everyone involved. Too often they are not. I found when I was an Elder one of the best ways to get new players involved was to give them what amount to side-quests with rewards. Tell them to try to recover something at a site they would visit, get a piece of information about another character, get a copy of some files, etc. I would often just make up what I wanted off the cuff. What was really funny was when they started sharing with each other what I was after and trying to figure out what I was up to. Occasionally I actually asked for something I wanted but there were so many false leads that they could never put the pieces together.

The Vampire game rewards survival over fun when it comes to being able to participate in those kinds of games. It is like playing an MMO with permadeath. Sounds like it would be fun but the people who scrabble to the top are the ones who never take chances, never go out on a limb, and never explore for fear of the consequences and no one enjoys it.

I was in a Vampire LARP and was expecting to have to quit or at least heavily cut back involvement due to other commitments. I had a teleevangelist Elder on the Primogen and decided to go out with a bang. I talked to the Storyteller/GM and started building a compound, siring childer vampire, creating ghouls, and getting my hand on heavy firepower. He started dropping clues and the whole thing eventually led to a big battle at the compound while other vampires tried to fend of the FBI and local law enforcement so that the Masquerade was not blown wide open. It was great fun and they pulled it off with a few casualties and defeated me and I got a great death scene. Almost everyone had a great time. One of the players though was almost visibly distraught at my stupidity. He asked why I would throw away a character with so much power for something this stupid and then explained to me how my plan to take over the city was flawed and how he would have done it. I explained that I put the flaws in intentionally to make it more interesting for the other players to find and exploit and that I had fun and that bad decisions (even intentional ones) can lead to great stories. He didn't get it. Incidentally while everyone else was having fun gunning down religious fanatics, mind-controlling the FBI, running from fires, and generally having a blast, he was sitting back in Elysium annoyed that no one cared about his petty politicking all night.

Lifers also have a problem with self-selection. Games riddled with people living out their weird power fantasies can't keep new players. No one wants to play in a game where the established players do all the fun stuff while the newbies are their pawns. Avoid games like this. A rule of thumb for Vampire LARPs: If the Prince and the Primogen spend more then an hour a game in a council meeting instead of having fun then the rest of the players should band together and burn down the building where they are meeting. You'll be doing them a favor; they need the excitement.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


HopperUK posted:

Holy poo poo, I was on GarouMUSH back in the day, though not for very long. I remember they took forever to approve applications.

Goddamn. I've had players from Starwrsmush, Garou and the Lion King Muck all turn up here (though there are a few others who play on Garou here, or did- Nerdymcnerdnerd I know for sure). And yeah, they had application times down to about a week or two when I was on there from 07-10, but some of the long term players (some who had been there for more than 20 years) really were loving toxic individuals. The whole 'lifer' poo poo that the OP has talked about was very much there, though I didn't recognise it as such. There were some good folk there too though- in the summers of 09 and 10 my best buddy and I did two huge us road trips which largely involved visiting players from Garou. Had some good tImes.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

CheeseThief posted:

That one shot sounds like a lot of fun! It gives me the feeling that there's a lot of unspoken context information involved in LARPing that is both a product of what a game is and what it will grow to be, something like "younger players get to play the eldest characters" sends a certain message to players and how they interact with the game. So when you've got a lifer running the show the message and context of the game will carry their, uh, I don't have a good word here. Politics? Basically I'm saying LARP suffers from feedback loops where lifers will consume the game due to their dedication and then cultivate an atmosphere that breeds lifers. Things get as bad as they do because their microculture will become increasingly self serving and appealing to people who want a slice of that.

This is definitely an element yeah. One of my biggest pet peeves is LARPs where you are basically expected to turn up to as many events as physically possible and if you don't, you aren't worth the time of day for the people in charge regardless of your other merits. This is a big problem for fest LARPs where each event is a weekend affair that might be several hours travel away + the cost of a ticket, which is usually at least £50, and you might be expected to go to 6+ of these a year. So that's 6 weekends of your life, probably at least 6 days holiday (more if you live a long rear end distance away) and around £450+ in tickets and food a year just to be in with a shot for being considered for stuff.

Granted this isn't always the case and sometimes people who don't turn up to absolutely everything get stuff...at which point the lifers start pitching a shitfit and saying its not fair, they put in all this time and effort etc. You can imagine how this is pretty impenetrable to new people coming in who just want a sniff at some of the cool stuff, only to get stonewalled because they 'haven't put the effort in'.

Fest LARPs also tend to have stringent rules on internet roleplay, usually to the effect that you cannot use forums or IM to discuss matters as your character between events, to avoid the problem of people camping on forums 24/7 and deciding everything outside of the game itself. I've seen what happens when this gets out of hand and it's ugly to see the lifer clique develop and shut everyone else out, since they dedicated the time to staying up till 3am on the internet and roleplaying pouring cups of tea on a messageboard.

CheeseThief
Dec 28, 2012

Two wholesome boys to brighten your day

MikeCrotch posted:

This is definitely an element yeah. One of my biggest pet peeves is LARPs where you are basically expected to turn up to as many events as physically possible and if you don't, you aren't worth the time of day for the people in charge regardless of your other merits. This is a big problem for fest LARPs where each event is a weekend affair that might be several hours travel away + the cost of a ticket, which is usually at least £50, and you might be expected to go to 6+ of these a year. So that's 6 weekends of your life, probably at least 6 days holiday (more if you live a long rear end distance away) and around £450+ in tickets and food a year just to be in with a shot for being considered for stuff.

Granted this isn't always the case and sometimes people who don't turn up to absolutely everything get stuff...at which point the lifers start pitching a shitfit and saying its not fair, they put in all this time and effort etc. You can imagine how this is pretty impenetrable to new people coming in who just want a sniff at some of the cool stuff, only to get stonewalled because they 'haven't put the effort in'.

Fest LARPs also tend to have stringent rules on internet roleplay, usually to the effect that you cannot use forums or IM to discuss matters as your character between events, to avoid the problem of people camping on forums 24/7 and deciding everything outside of the game itself. I've seen what happens when this gets out of hand and it's ugly to see the lifer clique develop and shut everyone else out, since they dedicated the time to staying up till 3am on the internet and roleplaying pouring cups of tea on a messageboard.

I get where you're coming from but I can also see why organizers feel the need to build systems like this, it's the hook. If you want to run something other than one shots you need to provide continuity and incentives for repeat attendance, a core of regular players is desirable for any longevity. It would suck to be an organizer and have your attendance dwindle each meeting because people didn't feel like they were getting enough out of their investment. From the perspective of a player I can understand frustration at a perceived lack of personal progress as well, it's like playing an old style grind MMO with permadeath.

I suppose a stable LARP has some level of nastiness plain built into the system to keep itself going, although from the sound of it the very biggest events side step these issues by weight of numbers and inertia. There should be some checks and balances possible but I wonder what?

Tamarillo
Aug 6, 2009

BiggerBoat posted:

Man, you nailed it right there.

I had a mid life crisis a few years back and wanted to start playing D&D again just to recapture some lost part of my youth but the ratio of insufferable, sweaty nerds out on some abstract power trip versus actual, functional human beings just looking to roll some dice and have a little fun was way too daunting. I can't even imagine what it must be like for groups of people who take it to the next level - beyond pencil and paper.

I'd say 4 out of 5 or 9 out of 10 of the people I met through the local meetup groups were in need of serious help, and this is coming from an alcoholic and a drug addict.

This is so true. I really enjoy playing D&D, not for the roleplaying aspect but I just love rolling dice. For the very reasons stated above I have never strayed from the group of 'regulars' I play with. There is a definite personality mismatch between me and a lot of other D&D players I've come across and I'm not willing to deal with an unsocialised nerd having a screaming fit and flapping their unwashed arms around because they failed their gently caress check.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Tabletop RPGs are like sex: when it's something you do with people you have known for a while and it's part of a larger relationship it's great. When you start meeting strangers off the internet for it poo poo gets weird fast.

Mince Pieface
Feb 1, 2006

Cyrano4747 posted:

Tabletop RPGs are like sex: when it's something you do with people you have known for a while and it's part of a larger relationship it's great. When you start meeting strangers off the internet for it poo poo gets weird fast.

Yeah, the reason why people have such terrible experiences with Meetup or whatever is that that's where the people who can't get anyone else to play with them go. (Just like sex!) It's not that 9/10 of D&D players are terrible, it's that 9/10 D&D players who can't ever find a stable game are terrible.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

CheeseThief posted:

I get where you're coming from but I can also see why organizers feel the need to build systems like this, it's the hook. If you want to run something other than one shots you need to provide continuity and incentives for repeat attendance, a core of regular players is desirable for any longevity. It would suck to be an organizer and have your attendance dwindle each meeting because people didn't feel like they were getting enough out of their investment. From the perspective of a player I can understand frustration at a perceived lack of personal progress as well, it's like playing an old style grind MMO with permadeath.

Heaven forbid people go play a game because it's fun for its own sake, I guess. The "what's in it for me?" mentality is pretty lovely and it ruins MMOs too. Even poo poo like card and tabletop games that you wouldn't expect to suffer from this problem get entitled vets whining that they're not being sufficiently rewarded for their "loyalty." It's toxic and just makes for bad games regardless of type; frankly, the fact that some players will be driven off by the lack of seniority perks is strictly a plus, since they're people the game will inevitably be better without.

the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Sep 20, 2015

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

They're also the people who will drop thousands of dollars on your next expansion or card set or whatever. They're the ones who drive the market for better or worse. MMOs are a perfect example.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Cyrano4747 posted:

They're also the people who will drop thousands of dollars on your next expansion or card set or whatever. They're the ones who drive the market for better or worse. MMOs are a perfect example.

To some extent, but as discussed in the thread games that cater to them too much become impenetrable to newcomers, which is the death knell for commercial games. One of the cornerstones of WoW's success was that they started with a shorter grind than most of the competition and have been making it shorter and shorter ever since--the hardcore players scream bloody murder every time Blizzard tosses newbies a bone, but Blizzard can't hear them because they're busy swimming in piles of money Scrooge McDuck style. Most big games manage to strike a balance.

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."
Another former WoD LARPer here. I played for... I don't even remember. 3 years? Maybe close to 4? I missed a lot of games for health reasons. It was a bad time for me, but I was lonely and wanted some escapism on top of social interaction.

I had previously been warned away from my local troupe when it was with the Camarilla, but then it split from the organization, changed the troupe name, kicked certain problem players, got new Storytellers, and was supposedly much better.

It'll take some drinking for me to try and get out some of the stories, but the troupe was about 50 people mostly ages 25-45 and it was FILLED with swingers.

I was quick to tell dudes I was a lesbian, not that it did much good, but my downfall came at the hands of the wife of one of the head STs, or as one of the guys in my coterie called her "the LARP bicycle."

I turned her down when she booty called me one night, so she made it her mission to destroy my characters. Then I confronted her about it publicly on the LARP Facebook page without thinking. The resulting blow-up (nobody took my side) is when I decided to quit.

Long story short, the creepy dudes weren't the biggest problem in my LARP. My experience was basically an especially ugly, nerdy version of Mean Girls.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Anoia posted:

Another former WoD LARPer here. I played for... I don't even remember. 3 years? Maybe close to 4? I missed a lot of games for health reasons. It was a bad time for me, but I was lonely and wanted some escapism on top of social interaction.

I had previously been warned away from my local troupe when it was with the Camarilla, but then it split from the organization, changed the troupe name, kicked certain problem players, got new Storytellers, and was supposedly much better.

It'll take some drinking for me to try and get out some of the stories, but the troupe was about 50 people mostly ages 25-45 and it was FILLED with swingers.

I was quick to tell dudes I was a lesbian, not that it did much good, but my downfall came at the hands of the wife of one of the head STs, or as one of the guys in my coterie called her "the LARP bicycle."

I turned her down when she booty called me one night, so she made it her mission to destroy my characters. Then I confronted her about it publicly on the LARP Facebook page without thinking. The resulting blow-up (nobody took my side) is when I decided to quit.

Long story short, the creepy dudes weren't the biggest problem in my LARP. My experience was basically an especially ugly, nerdy version of Mean Girls.


:justpost:

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."

I'm gonna need more liquor.

Plus my memory of the whole ordeal is really patchy so it'll take me a while to order everything.

Anoia fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Sep 26, 2015

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Anoia posted:

Another former WoD LARPer here. I played for... I don't even remember. 3 years? Maybe close to 4? I missed a lot of games for health reasons. It was a bad time for me, but I was lonely and wanted some escapism on top of social interaction.

I had previously been warned away from my local troupe when it was with the Camarilla, but then it split from the organization, changed the troupe name, kicked certain problem players, got new Storytellers, and was supposedly much better.

It'll take some drinking for me to try and get out some of the stories, but the troupe was about 50 people mostly ages 25-45 and it was FILLED with swingers.

I was quick to tell dudes I was a lesbian, not that it did much good, but my downfall came at the hands of the wife of one of the head STs, or as one of the guys in my coterie called her "the LARP bicycle."

I turned her down when she booty called me one night, so she made it her mission to destroy my characters. Then I confronted her about it publicly on the LARP Facebook page without thinking. The resulting blow-up (nobody took my side) is when I decided to quit.

Long story short, the creepy dudes weren't the biggest problem in my LARP. My experience was basically an especially ugly, nerdy version of Mean Girls.

Oh God the Cam. My old roommate was big into it.

The only organization I've known that had to institute rules that specifically prevented anything from one-shotting a character because certain players were travelling to other states to show up to a game, murder someone's character in one round with no recourse, then leaving game before any consequences could happen.

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Liquid Communism posted:

Oh God the Cam. My old roommate was big into it.

The only organization I've known that had to institute rules that specifically prevented anything from one-shotting a character because certain players were travelling to other states to show up to a game, murder someone's character in one round with no recourse, then leaving game before any consequences could happen.

This is amazing. On the one hand, a gang of role playing assassin types traveling around the US to PK is kinda cool.

On the other hand, people playing a game and traveling around the US to gently caress up other games is just sad.

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."

Agrikk posted:

This is amazing. On the one hand, a gang of role playing assassin types traveling around the US to PK is kinda cool.

On the other hand, people playing a game and traveling around the US to gently caress up other games is just sad.

I know EXACTLY the type of dude who would do that, too. Patchy beard, wears a leather trench coat year round that makes him really sweaty and extra smelly, blasts Red Right Hand as he pulls up to the game in his beat up Honda Accord. You always saw That Guy coming a mile away.

Kerafyrm
Mar 7, 2005

Camrath posted:

Goddamn. I've had players from Starwrsmush, Garou and the Lion King Muck all turn up here (though there are a few others who play on Garou here, or did- Nerdymcnerdnerd I know for sure). And yeah, they had application times down to about a week or two when I was on there from 07-10, but some of the long term players (some who had been there for more than 20 years) really were loving toxic individuals. The whole 'lifer' poo poo that the OP has talked about was very much there, though I didn't recognise it as such. There were some good folk there too though- in the summers of 09 and 10 my best buddy and I did two huge us road trips which largely involved visiting players from Garou. Had some good tImes.

I was on GarouMUSH for a long, long time (2008-2013 or so), but finally kinda woke up to the toxicity of MUSH RP in general, especially in the WoD circles (The Reach, anyone?). Those places practically require you to focus your life around the game or else you don't get anywhere, and while as a high school/college student that was doable, it kinda fed some of my introverted tendencies and made them so much worse. Dropping MUSH RP has been one of the most freeing things I've done.

Though I've never been into LARP, I'm really enjoying the thread, OP!

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Kerafyrm posted:

I was on GarouMUSH for a long, long time (2008-2013 or so), but finally kinda woke up to the toxicity of MUSH RP in general, especially in the WoD circles (The Reach, anyone?). Those places practically require you to focus your life around the game or else you don't get anywhere, and while as a high school/college student that was doable, it kinda fed some of my introverted tendencies and made them so much worse. Dropping MUSH RP has been one of the most freeing things I've done.

Though I've never been into LARP, I'm really enjoying the thread, OP!

Oh, who were you? That'd overlap with my time on the game. Totally agree with you about MU* RP though- I pretty much wasted most of my 20s and my entire university career through being logged into a multitude of games throughout. Only stopped in 2010 when I realised A. that I was caring more about my Garoumush character's relationships than actually trying to find a girlfriend IRL and B. that it was full of broken, weird people for the most part (there are and remain some people who play on that game who I care about deeply though) and it'd only drag me down to their level.

Edit: Wait, think I have you. Kimpe?

HopperUK
Apr 29, 2007

Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Camrath posted:

I pretty much wasted most of my 20s and my entire university career through being logged into a multitude of games throughout.

Goddamn yeah. Ugh the waste. It's not like you even learn to write well.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


HopperUK posted:

Goddamn yeah. Ugh the waste. It's not like you even learn to write well.

Yeah, I used to write for pleasure before I got into MU*s.. I then didn't produce /anything/ for more than a decade as it used all my creative energy and also taught me a really loving stilted method of description.

Oh, and forgive the double post but last weekend I went to a local LARP event which showed everything positive that such games can be. It was actually pretty amazing having a game with zero drama, an absolute minimum of character breaking and everyone just getting on together and having an amazing time creating a fictional world together. Very different from the Fest systems that I'm used to playing, but just as different from the WoD stuff that the OP has been talking about primarily.

Really, I'm still processing it all- I only went along as it was an event a friend had thrown together at short notice, but it turned out to be one of the most amazingly fun weekends of my life. Gangster-themed game, high kit standards, a perfect location tucked away in the country.. The way I've been describing it to non-LARPers is 'A load of friends got together in 1920s costume to play cards, drink whiskey and listen to jazz all weekend. It then got even more awesome'.

Have some pictures.





Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

HopperUK posted:

Goddamn yeah. Ugh the waste. It's not like you even learn to write well.

While I didn't get into the RP aspects of it, a few years spent on SWMUD did have one positive side affect: it really kick started my touch typing speed. That has had some pretty long-term benefits for me as a big chunk of my professional life now involves a lot of composition.

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

Camrath posted:

Yeah, I used to write for pleasure before I got into MU*s.. I then didn't produce /anything/ for more than a decade as it used all my creative energy and also taught me a really loving stilted method of description.

Oh, and forgive the double post but last weekend I went to a local LARP event which showed everything positive that such games can be. It was actually pretty amazing having a game with zero drama, an absolute minimum of character breaking and everyone just getting on together and having an amazing time creating a fictional world together. Very different from the Fest systems that I'm used to playing, but just as different from the WoD stuff that the OP has been talking about primarily.

Really, I'm still processing it all- I only went along as it was an event a friend had thrown together at short notice, but it turned out to be one of the most amazingly fun weekends of my life. Gangster-themed game, high kit standards, a perfect location tucked away in the country.. The way I've been describing it to non-LARPers is 'A load of friends got together in 1920s costume to play cards, drink whiskey and listen to jazz all weekend. It then got even more awesome'.

Have some pictures.







Are you guys pointing real guns at each other?

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."
So... LARP stories. Here's one: My first game.

When I first got started in my local troupe, it was right as it was kicking off under the new management (who, admittedly, were pretty decent guys) and the game was running Mage, Werewolf, AND Vampire to test the waters to see which system worked best. That, and they had three STs, each with a different pet system, and they wanted to give each a fair shake.

Anyone who's ever played a crossover game knows what's coming.

Vampire was and is my favorite and best known system, but I didn't want to go in alone. I was asked by some dudes I used to play tabletop with to form a pack of hobo spy/mercenary bonegnawers, giving us the perfect excuse to interact with other systems peacefully (by asking them for change and eavesdropping under the guise of panhandling) and also spend a lot of time in the city proper.

I still didn't know werewolf that well as a system, and to this day I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce some of its esoteric terms, so I put on my sheet that my character had significant battle scars and was mute from having her throat torn out in battle.

I missed the first game due to a flare up of back problems, but the guys told me I didn't miss much, just setting information from the STs and some vampire players skulking around towards the end of the game. This would be significant later.

The next game I broke out my cosplay prosthetics and makeup, made my throat look good and hosed up, and drove over.

The head bitch alpha werewolf leader of everything (not the official term) was played by a girl called "Sugar". That wasn't her character name, everyone called the player Sugar. I never did get her real name. When it came time for IC introductions I was promptly reminded why I made my character mute. Sugar bawled me out for not immediately addressing her by her myriad titles.

One of my friends stepped in for me, "She's mute."

"Oh," Sugar looked incredibly disappointed.

I nodded and smiled through being told about all the imaginary territories, and then me and the guys went off to find the werewolf storyteller, who was talking to the vampire ST and looking flustered. We needed him to run a little thing for us involving spirits and claiming our territory in the city.

"It may be a while," the ST said. And after pause said. "Where are you guys gonna be? IC I mean?"

We said in the slums, which actually meant a room off to the side. The thing about these games is nobody stays in character 100% of the time, and after five minutes we were all playing with our phones.

Then suddenly all the werewolf players filed in without a word, opened the doors to the next room, which was Elysium (vampire central) and walked in.

"What the hell?" Somebody said.

"Out of bounds, Sugar!"

"Is this in character?"

Me and the guys just looked at each other, then to the werewolf players still waiting outside the room. One of them asked what was going on. The other player just shook his head and said not to worry about it.

The way scenes with storyteller moderation worked was basically like taking a number at a deli counter. Anyone who needed to take some significant action effectively got in line, had their scene moderated, and then the storyteller went to the next group.

HOWEVER, if something really major and game changing happened, like the werewolves attacking Elysium en masse, everything had to grind to a halt and all STs had to converge to deal with the huge combat scene. This was known as The Pain Train, because it took loving forever when you had 30 people waiting their turn in combat.

So on game 2, there was a knock down drag out fight between every single vampire and every single werewolf... except forme and my pack. For some reason no other werewolf player bothered to tell us what was going down, probably because we were Urrah (city werewolves) and my boys were very proud of the fact they pissed off the country werewolves in game 1.

When we had asked the ST about a scene, he and the vampire ST had realized there was technically nothing they could do to stop it since crossover rules are bullshit: vampires radiate evil, and werewolves can smell it. A werewolf had noticed one of the vampires lurking, used it as an excuse to follow them back to Elysium, used Sense Wyrm and hit pay dirt.

A war party was called, but because many of the vampire players were overpowered they gave as good as they got.

The aftermath of that game was not fun. In the end 3/4 of the cast was dead. My pack and I just retired our characters and made vampires because the surviving werewolf players helpfully, angrily informed us they were going to find a way to brand us as traitors and get us executed for not being present for the massacre, even though no one ever told us what was going In Character.

Really they were probably mad we slipped in to watch Out of Character.

With our pack gone, the STs decided to just shut down werewolf and focus on Vampire and Mage. The players who caused (Sugar and 2 others) all the mayhem? 3 month probation and a point penalty on their next characters.

Towards the end of the night (and the fight took ALL NIGHT), the rule lawyering in a desperate attempt to save themselves got pretty bad. One of the vampire players who started in a full suit ended up pacing around with his sleeves rolled up, his tie loose, the MET book in his hand. It was like the nerdiest courtroom drama ever and it ended with his character getting his head punted across the room... But since he was a Tremere he had also succeed in setting the place on fire and dooming the remaining fighters. Only one person succeeded in fleeing the blaze, not counting the people who'd already gotten out when it was clear things were FUBAR.

So that's pretty much the worst case scenario for a LARP fight night, I guess. And still I went back.

Camrath
Mar 19, 2004

The UKMT Fudge Baron


Mr.Bob posted:

Are you guys pointing real guns at each other?

Airsoft, replicas or deacts, no gas or BBs permitted on site. It /really/ aids immersion. Biggest sadness was that no blank gas shots/PFC weapons were permitted, but that's down to insurance reasons.

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

Oh ok. That makes sense.

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Anoia posted:

Towards the end of the night (and the fight took ALL NIGHT), the rule lawyering in a desperate attempt to save themselves got pretty bad. One of the vampire players who started in a full suit ended up pacing around with his sleeves rolled up, his tie loose, the MET book in his hand. It was like the nerdiest courtroom drama ever and it ended with his character getting his head punted across the room

Someone should post up the MET rules on Fatal and Friends cos godDAMN those are some lovely rules for LARPing. There is a terrible, terrible habit for people to create LARPs based on whatever their favourite tabletop RPG is, ending up with 250 page monstrosities for a game that you are supposed to play in real time, on the fly, and having no understanding of why their game doesn't work very well.

Skunkrocker
Jan 14, 2012

Your favorite furry wrestler.
MET rules are actually pretty simple, however Anoia's game made two mistakes.

1. PVP. PVP always gets rules lawyered, because how special is your snowflake if it melts?
2. Genre mixing. Genre mixing is ALWAYS bad. The rules are written for you to use those other genres as antagonists, and never as working together. It's why when MES tried doing this stupid thing called Accord that was literally "hey we're all superheroes now, let's fight cthulhu!" and allowed you to create any kind of character you wanted (EXCEPT YOU COULDN'T USE THE SLASHER BOOK WHAT THE gently caress) it ended up being a convoluted mess.

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."
Yeah, Werewolves vs Vampires PVP sounds cool in theory, but in practice it's a mess because, well, see what skunkrocker said above. House rules always sucked.

Both systems only intend for you to fight the other monsters as NPCs. Werewolves are Big Nasties that take a group effort for vamps to kill a single one. Vampires are usually fodder werewolves mow down for some token honor points.

When PVP does happen it's usually extremely one sided in favor of the werewolves, who can just twist off a vampire's hand with their grotesque strength, do aggravated damage with their claws, and heal bashing every turn, but the vampires involved with this were playing powerful elders and half of them were vampire mages. That only made it messier.

I wish I did still have a copy of Minds Eye Theater because instead of illustrations it has photos and some of them are hilarious.

Anoia fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Sep 30, 2015

Pron on VHS
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling
I read the first page of this thread and still don't really understand what LARPing is. Is it like paintballing? Except you use swords instead of paintball guns?


edit: I guess LARPers have a story around why they are in a field fighting each other....sounds like Civil War reenactments.

What's the racial makeup of a typical LARP fight? It's gotta be like...98% white

Pron on VHS fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Sep 30, 2015

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Pron on VHS posted:

I read the first page of this thread and still don't really understand what LARPing is. Is it like paintballing? Except you use swords instead of paintball guns?


edit: I guess LARPers have a story around why they are in a field fighting each other....sounds like Civil War reenactments.

What's the racial makeup of a typical LARP fight? It's gotta be like...98% white
Oh man, the race thing. I have played in LARPs for over a decade now (all political/vampire-y ones) and it is well over 98% white. I have seen all of two black people, ever. It is the pastiest, whitest crowd. It's whiter than PC gaming, because at least that has Asian representation. It does have a fair girl/boy spread (maybe ~40% female, not bad for playing make-believe as a grownup), but the fact that there is literally no minority representation is really obvious.

Anoia
Dec 31, 2003

"Sooner or later, every curse is a prayer."
There was one black dude in my LARP for a few months, and I think he was just in it to gently caress with all the pasty nerd boys , because they were terrified to pull their usual power gaming bullshit because of fear of him "pulling the race card" if they trumped him.

The game literally involves cards and I think the dude found it hilarious. He was pretty cool, too. He played as venture, nothing outlandish, and just kinda waltzed through through the game until he got bored of white nerd boys sweating and stammering in his presence but still trying to point out their character is actually not afraid of anything and very cool and charismatic and sexy and thin.

ARCDad
Jul 22, 2007
Not to be confused with poptartin
S

Rudeboy Detective
Apr 28, 2011


Anoia posted:

their character is actually not afraid of anything and very cool and charismatic and sexy and thin.

"I may appear to be a 350 pound bag of fat enclosed in skin that has never known the touch of soap, but you need to remember that I have level 69 charisma and and +7 to sexhaving while we're in this house. Okay?"

That's the part of LARPing that will always render me unable to participate. The gap between character description and the person playing it seems like it would totally ruin the suspension of disbelief.

Edit: What is the absolute case of this you fine LARPmen have ever seen? I hope it's something on the level of a rascal-bound fatty roleplaying noted Camarilla prince, Johnny Bravo.

Soylent Pudding
Jun 22, 2007

We've got people!


I would have thought that LARPers on average would be less pasty white than most other nerd subcultures because "at least they're going outside, right?"

Agrikk
Oct 17, 2003

Take care with that! We have not fully ascertained its function, and the ticking is accelerating.

Anoia posted:

There was one black dude in my LARP for a few months, and I think he was just in it to gently caress with all the pasty nerd boys , because they were terrified to pull their usual power gaming bullshit because of fear of him "pulling the race card" if they trumped him.

The game literally involves cards and I think the dude found it hilarious. He was pretty cool, too. He played as venture, nothing outlandish, and just kinda waltzed through through the game until he got bored of white nerd boys sweating and stammering in his presence but still trying to point out their character is actually not afraid of anything and very cool and charismatic and sexy and thin.

I wanna play Kanye the Giant, yo.

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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

Pron on VHS posted:

I read the first page of this thread and still don't really understand what LARPing is. Is it like paintballing? Except you use swords instead of paintball guns?

edit: I guess LARPers have a story around why they are in a field fighting each other....sounds like Civil War reenactments.

What's the racial makeup of a typical LARP fight? It's gotta be like...98% white

That's 'boffer LARPing,' which a few of the people here are into. I did boffer LARPing as a summer camp thing as a kid. Pretty fun. I went back as a teen because I could get volunteer hours going 'grr argh I'm a orc' getting hit hit in the groin with a foam sword, which is surprisingly fun. Kids are great. Most of the counselors tended toward the saner nerd types, geeky enough to spend their summers going 'grr argh I'm an orc' but you know, forced to be sane-ish responsible adults. Just by way of needing to entertain kids a lot of all this goes away. (For instance, NO SEX THEMES GODDAMNIT.)

I think the big issue is never growing out of that stage.

But there's other 'story LARP' which is weird and strange and you play rock paper scissors or draw cards for everything instead of hitting each other with foam. These tend to be...

Soylent Pudding posted:

I would have thought that LARPers on average would be less pasty white than most other nerd subcultures because "at least they're going outside, right?"

Your indoorsy drama types. I mean, I'm sure there's cool story LARP and uncool boffer LARPs, but I think they tend toward different flavors of poo poo.

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