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I have been pondering this issue quite extensively; if I do business with a state employee, who's wages are certainly stolen, have I not abetted the crime? However, using this same line of ontological reasoning, we must also conclude conducting business with any firm having received even a penny of government money is a problem, because of the money's fungibility. Simply put, if you sell a widget to a public school teacher, you've clearly accepted stolen goods. However, if you sell a widget to a business owner who has received a government subsidy, What is your personal opinion on the acceptable amount of commercial conduct between an individual and the State? (Where the State is more broadly defined as the government, state employees, welfare recipients, state-subsidized enterprise, or state-supported charities/nonprofits, such as universities)
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Aug 12, 2015 19:34
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my code of conduct is I pay a lot every loving check I get so I'll take advantage of every government program I possibly can
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Aug 12, 2015 19:36
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three inches and no more they want the rest they gotta pay for it
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Aug 12, 2015 19:36
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nice try getting us to rate your phd dissertation.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:37
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Whistleblower awards are quite high OP ! and the law protects you
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Aug 12, 2015 19:38
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if it bleeds, it leads
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Aug 12, 2015 19:38
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Kuato posted:nice try getting us to rate your phd dissertation. Did you even read my post? Any dime given to the government is stolen. Conversely, doing business with any business that accepts government funds is, essentially, dealing with stolen property (tax dollars). Taxation is theft.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:39
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Bleed the state dry. One post at a time.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:40
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this_is_hard posted:Did you even read my post? Any dime given to the government is stolen. Conversely, doing business with any business that accepts government funds is, essentially, dealing with stolen property (tax dollars). until they stop doing it i will steal right back from them at any opportunity one day im gonna be the guy rolling up to the welfare office in a limo once i get it figured out, i think that guy with the ?s all over his suit has some books i need to read
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Aug 12, 2015 19:41
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this_is_hard posted:Did you even read my post? Any dime given to the government is stolen. Conversely, doing business with any business that accepts government funds is, essentially, dealing with stolen property (tax dollars). Are...are you Kyoon?
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Aug 12, 2015 19:41
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I always send Obama a nice thank you note.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:42
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Hmmm... no comment. 
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Aug 12, 2015 19:43
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Vin BioEthanol posted:until they stop doing it i will steal right back from them at any opportunity I'm convinced now that the proper approach to most questions like these is to refrain from participating. Yes, it makes us less wealthy and capable, but thats a game that the state has already won. If someone was to create a successful business and now he thinks he can begin to subvert the state, the archons will destroy what he has the moment he steps out of line. The only way to maintain a successful business in their system is to continue playing by their rules. We can't be naive enough to think that we're setting some trap for the archons, where we get to Warren Buffet level of wealth and say "surprise, now I'm working against you guys". You simply don't reach those levels without first being picked by them out of a pool of hundreds of others. Real solutions are difficult. Thats how life has always been and we didn't somehow discover some loophole. If we expect to make a substantial shift in the course of humanity, then it will not be easy and it will take sacrifice. So yes, taking money from statists (both government employees and civilian) is probably the wrong thing to do if our goal is anarchy. This is a hard pill to swallow though and I'm not personally capable of it either.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:43
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all money belongs to the government you dumbass
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Aug 12, 2015 19:43
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:all money belongs to the government you dumbass
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Aug 12, 2015 19:44
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:all money belongs to the government you dumbass
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Aug 12, 2015 19:44
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:all money belongs to the government you dumbass Exactly, and it is derived from a crime (theft). My solution is to end the government, end the fed, and transition to a non-state controlled currency (bitcoin, etc). To further the discussion: Is money a good or a service? Well, we know that gold is a good, but it being money is the fact that anyone will accept it as payment for goods and services. Paper money is a good, but still, it being money is because someone will accept it. The act of accepting something is not a good, it is a service. Money is not a good, it's a service. Bitcoin is not a good, it's a service. Now, that doesn't make Bitcoin money, but it relieves the contention "You can't hold a bitcoin!". Well, you also can't hold the fact that someone will accept a dollar. If Bitcoin is money, then it is the best money, as it strips away the need for a vault.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:47
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Is this one of these END THE FED types I've heard so much about?
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Aug 12, 2015 19:47
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this_is_hard posted:Exactly, and it is derived from a crime (theft). how can it be theft if it was theirs all along not only that but you agree to pay taxes by living here
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Aug 12, 2015 19:47
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theultimo posted:Is this one of these END THE FED types I've heard so much about? i think it is being milked for all its' worth because it is capable of actual sentence structure and more than basic frothing rabies guttural nonsense. so what stupid thing did you buy?
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Aug 12, 2015 19:47
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do you work in retail OP
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Aug 12, 2015 19:48
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theultimo posted:Is this one of these END THE FED types I've heard so much about? Do you remember what life was like before Bitcoin? Remember how we were hell bent on "End(ing) The Fed?" Instead of droning on about how bad the Fed is and why we need to end it, we can now spend our time promoting something we really like... Bitcoin. I feel like, or hope that, all of our energy trying to end the state will eventually be replaced by promoting something else that we really like. Sure, it will be an alternative to statism which will de facto replace the state over time. I just feel like right now we're at a point where we can philosophize day and night to statists about how bad the state is, but until we've really got something new that we can promote, we'll never get very far. I don't know what it will be. Imagine some sort of software program that somehow enabled a decentralized autonomous corporation defense agency. Imagine if you could, say, pay X amount of BTC annually which would somehow protect you from the government completely. Use your imagination. Then instead of trying to end the state, we'd simply be able to opt out of it, I mean for real, and be immune from the state's bullshit. Gosh that'd be nice.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:49
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TwoFire posted:i think it is being milked for all its' worth because it is capable of actual sentence structure and more than basic frothing rabies guttural nonsense. Windows phone, Xbox one, ouya, you name it. And it's of course another Bitcoiner.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:49
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Moridin920 posted:how can it be theft if it was theirs all along No one agrees to pay taxes, hth. I did not consent to be born into the United States, nor to be a US citizen. I have no more control over my nationality than I do my race.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:50
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ok, OP
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Aug 12, 2015 19:50
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this_is_hard posted:No one agrees to pay taxes, hth. I did not consent to be born into the United States, nor to be a US citizen. I have no more control over my nationality than I do my race. but you know you can just leave and renounce your citizenship and they won't try to tax you anymore right
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Aug 12, 2015 19:50
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theultimo posted:Windows phone, Xbox one, ouya, you name it. Wow. Give ya $5 for the whole box.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:50
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the government makes the money, there is no money without a government lol
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Aug 12, 2015 19:51
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you don't even need to leave the country, just go live on your own off the grid and renounce your citizenship. don't use anything we collectively pay for with tax dollars. stop posting using technology subsidized by the government.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:51
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Moridin920 posted:but you know you can just leave right You don't even need to physically leave the US to renounce your citizenship, OP. You'll just be another blighter on the dole.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:51
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this_is_hard posted:No one agrees to pay taxes, hth. I did not consent to be born into the United States, nor to be a US citizen. I have no more control over my nationality than I do my race. maybe you should consent to it though, its a pretty good deal
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Aug 12, 2015 19:51
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Rutibex posted:the government makes the money, there is no money without a government lol Exactly. Which is why various cryptocurrencies are the future. They are not tied to any state.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:51
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:all money belongs to the government you dumbass What about the citizens, does the Government own us ????
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Aug 12, 2015 19:52
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Moridin920 posted:but you know you can just leave and renounce your citizenship and they won't try to tax you anymore right I am the ULTIMO OF THE FAMILY THE I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY NATION I AM TRAVELING NOT DRIVING
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Aug 12, 2015 19:52
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this_is_hard posted:Exactly. Which is why various cryptocurrencies are the future. They are not tied to any state. lol bro who do you think owns the internet that you are using to conduct transactions and the infrastructure and the hardware to run it all? it doesn't just come from the aether
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Aug 12, 2015 19:52
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my code of conduct is, if, it is offered to me, i will take it e: source your quotes op Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 19:53
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I've changed the way I see Bitcoin lately, integrating my previous views with the concepts expressed in The Power of Exit talk given by Srinivasan here in Silicon Valley. With this writeup, I invite you to change your view as well, by planting some seed ideas in your brain. I previously thought of Bitcoin as a cryptographically-protected vehicle to protect my savings from being stolen by you know who, and also as a way to invest a little bit -- an amount of money I can afford to lose -- such that it gains value in a way that was unprecedented before. Now I realize that Bitcoin is so much more. If, for a second, you think of Bitcoin as a new and imaginary sovereign nation's currency, and you realize that all sovereign nations are imaginary already, then you realize that all of us ancaps are part of that new nation, even if we're not geographically close to each other. You will also realize that buying bitcoin with Currency X is quite literally exiting the economy of Country that issues Currency X, and entering the economy of Ancap Nation. Supposing for a second that the issuer of Currency X can no longer absolutely destroy Bitcoin (which, I grant, is a huge, enormous assumption at this point) then it no longer makes sense to see Bitcoin as a currency you use to minimally hedge your savings, but rather as your default and first option to put your savings into, only to cash out at the time you need to cover basic living expenses. Except for the time it takes to go from Bitcoin to Currency X, it makes zero sense to remain in any way in the economy of Currency X. I actually sat down and did the math. Had I put every single one of my paychecks in Bitcoin from two years ago until now, I would have made a net 20% profit every paycheck cycle. That's 20% profit every 14 days. You understand how rich you can get doing that? Bitcoin is the ultimate exit. It is the way we ancaps can finally exercise our "power of exit" without having to submit to being robbed into ruin. Thoughts?
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Aug 12, 2015 19:54
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Moridin920 posted:lol bro who do you think owns the internet that you are using to conduct transactions and the infrastructure and the hardware to run it all? It's in the wiki, it's a known issue already fixed.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:54
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over the course of hundreds of years, as society has developed, we have decided that we need certain things like roads or post offices or healthcare that none of us can individually afford but when we pool our money (taxes) we can afford projects to provide those things. if you don't like it you're welcome to gently caress off but mining bitcoins using tax payer infrastructure while whining about how taxation is theft while you waste taxpayer electricity is some retard logic Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 19:55
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Moridin920 posted:over the course of hundreds of years, as society has developed, we have decided that we need certain things like roads or post offices or healthcare that none of us can individually afford but when we pool our money (taxes) we can afford projects to provide those things. not to mention that bitcoin is so loving broken structurally it really needs a bit more centralization for it to function beyond a spergnerd level.. i mean gently caress it isnt even as reliable as gnutella
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Aug 12, 2015 19:56
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