|
phasmid posted:By the way, Equilibrium was a childish rebuke of 1984. Equilibrium was made by a guy who thought gunkata was a real and cool thing. Of course it's childish. That doesn't diminish its quality. It's a goofy, good movie with some interesting art design.
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2015 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:59 |
|
|
Well, this is quite the conversation. I haven't read BNW so I can't comment on that. 1984 is something that just wouldn't work in such a socially connected world. I feel like society would have to be incredibly introverted for anyone to develop such a system, and with our modern dependence on interconnectedness that just couldn't happen. North Korea is the closest the world will ever get until something really chaotic and world-altering were to occur. Like FreudianSlippers said, I think we're moving more towards a lightly cyberpunk future. Maybe Ghost in the Shell but without the outlandish level of cybernetics and robots. But even that won't happen for a while because the world of cyber security is still a heated arms race. Unless cyber security engineering manages to eclipse the capabilities civilian hackers, there's no way that things like the Snowden leak won't happen. It would be enough to keep surveillance in check, but at a consistently decreasing level. One day hacking will become too drat hard for new players to get into, and the person/group with the most influence and power in the cyber security industry will have control of everything. That's all just a long way of saying that 1984 would still work as a modern movie because you can mostly ignore the political commentary and sell it as a modernization of classic fiction. It will fail if it tries to be too political because it will most likely end up sounding pretentious as hell the the people who know the book well and wouldn't be a fun spectacle for general audiences because it's too bleak and depressing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2015 05:21
|
|
|
The issue with 1984 today is that, despite the NSA spying on e-mail and phone calls, the biggest threat to privacy isn't Big Brother but Big Buddy: there really isn't a need to provide a centralized surveillance program on the population, because people today voluntarily hand over the information to get more likes or get more followers or get some doodad. You can go on Facebook and find out what places a person frequents, what they eat, what they watch, because they give that to you. You can go on Twitter and see their conversations with their friends, or retweets of ideas that they like. Meanwhile the people running these outfits are data mining like crazy, selling your most personal thoughts, that you've given them access to, to the highest bidder, be it corporations, politicians, or the government.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2015 05:52
|
|
|
Cyberpunk fiction doesn't posit that Snowden leaks won't happen; things like Snowden leaks are what the genre thrives on (people defecting information from one place to a higher bidder). Best example being New Rose Hotel (the short story or the film, take your pick, they both own). edit: basically the fact that information is power and can never be controlled is the central thesis of cyberpunk, to the point where William Gibson has a recent novel about people hiding secret documents in the fabric weave of designer jeans precision fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
ViggyNash posted:Like FreudianSlippers said, I think we're moving more towards a lightly cyberpunk future. Maybe Ghost in the Shell but without the outlandish level of cybernetics and robots. control of everything. I've walked on a computerized and motorized leg that can read your walking speed and rhythm as well as the incline of the surface you are walking on and adjust the movement of the heel accordingly. It was a proto-type so it couldn't really read the surfaces yet and it tended to get stuck in a loop of tapping the foot but it's pretty drat advanced cybernetics. Or at least it will be once they work out the kinks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
precision posted:Cyberpunk fiction doesn't posit that Snowden leaks won't happen; things like Snowden leaks are what the genre thrives on (people defecting information from one place to a higher bidder). Best example being New Rose Hotel (the short story or the film, take your pick, they both own). You know, steganography is a real thing, though it's not quite that crazy yet. I agree with you that Snowden style leaks are a pretty standard element of cyberpunk, but 1984 isn't cyberpunk, not by a long shot. In cyberpunk, people at least have agency over themselves. In 1984, people aren't even allowed that much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
ViggyNash posted:You know, steganography is a real thing, though it's not quite that crazy yet. Also, cyberpunk mostly happens within the constraints of capitalism. 1984 isn't about capitalism, it's about the other thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 09:00
|
|
|
Don't worry, I'm sure we'll manage to wrangle ourselves into a dystopian future of workaholics and corporate mandated happyness in just about a decade or so; then we can discuss again about the finer details of what sort of fiction we're in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 11:39
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:Don't worry, I'm sure we'll manage to wrangle ourselves into a dystopian future of workaholics and corporate mandated happyness in just about a decade or so; then we can discuss again about the finer details of what sort of fiction we're in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 14:16
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:Don't worry, I'm sure we'll manage to wrangle ourselves into a dystopian future of workaholics and corporate mandated happyness in just about a decade or so; then we can discuss again about the finer details of what sort of fiction we're in. It's only been 30 years since this prediction was made so let's keep it up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 15:47
|
|
|
That is the dystopian present.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 15:51
|
|
|
Welcome to the desert of reality. Man, Matrix really missed out by not cramming it with 1984-references.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
If they ever updated any of this poo poo to be contemporary, it would resemble the non-fiction of Mike Davis.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 15:57
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:Don't worry, I'm sure we'll manage to wrangle ourselves into a dystopian future of workaholics and corporate mandated happyness in just about a decade or so; then we can discuss again about the finer details of what sort of fiction we're in. why do people talk about this like it's still some hazy future thing it happened, it's mostly boring not terrifying, it never meant you were going to get the flying car and cyberarm too
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 00:28
|
|
|
Nobody's making a 1984 movie because every other science fiction movie out there is 1984's same schtick of current phenomena rendered just exotic enough that you actually notice them, just not for specifically Stalinist brands of authoritarianism and with more of the toyetic gadgets that are what people actually see when they watch or read those stories. 1984 had, what, CCTV and the V-2 rocket? You can't slap a '-punk' on that and franchise it. Idiocracy is just Brave New World with TV instead of barbiturates. Nobody does barbiturates anymore. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:why do people talk about this like it's still some hazy future thing Well, maybe not the flying car. Prosthesis are coming along way that soldiers who get their legs blown off don't get mustered out, but given combat-ready replacements and go back to active duty. Eventually, prosthetic arms will get good enough for upper extremity amputees can continue to serve. A Wizard of Goatse posted:Idiocracy is just Brave New World with TV instead of barbiturates. Nobody does barbiturates anymore. Idiocracy is a great example of a society being "amused to death". It's too bad that Mike Judge framed the film with a eugenics message because that whole civilization could be easily explained as the end result of centuries of rampant anti-intellectualism, the race to please the lowest common denominator, and catering to instant gratification. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Aug 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Well, maybe not the flying car. Prosthesis are coming along way that soldiers who get their legs blown off don't get mustered out, but given combat-ready replacements and go back to active duty. Eventually, prosthetic arms will get good enough for upper extremity amputees can continue to serve. People don't seek out prothesis though and they probably won't since "NSA hacked your cyber-eye" is now part of the public consciousness.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Idiocracy is a great example of a society being "amused to death". It's too bad that Mike Judge framed the film with a eugenics message because that whole civilization could be easily explained as the end result of centuries of rampant anti-intellectualism, the race to please the lowest common denominator, and catering to instant gratification. I guess I spoke a little too broadly there, Idiocracy is vastly superior to BNW in that while it's retelling the story it gets the basic hollowness behind its sneering pose about the sheeple and makes you, the guy who is watching and actually sorta believes that poo poo, part of the punchline. It centers the whole thing around 'dumb people are outbreeding me, the smart but mysteriously unsuccessful guy' for the same reason all its jokes are things like changing Fuddruckers to Buttfuckers. Mike Judge is a good writer who gets why it's funny that every undergrad's go-to damning indictment of a culture of idle hedonism is written by a guy whose other notable works are all trip reports, and none of them even know The Doors of Perception exists cause it's not on the curriculum. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Aug 20, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 11:09
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Mike Judge is a good writer who gets why it's funny that every undergrad's go-to damning indictment of a culture of idle hedonism is written by a guy whose other notable works are all trip reports, and none of them even know The Doors of Perception exists cause it's not on the curriculum. Or Island, which he eventually and specifically wrote as a reaction to BNW.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 14:38
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:The issue with 1984 today is that, despite the NSA spying on e-mail and phone calls, the biggest threat to privacy isn't Big Brother but Big Buddy: there really isn't a need to provide a centralized surveillance program on the population, because people today voluntarily hand over the information to get more likes or get more followers or get some doodad. You can go on Facebook and find out what places a person frequents, what they eat, what they watch, because they give that to you. You can go on Twitter and see their conversations with their friends, or retweets of ideas that they like. Meanwhile the people running these outfits are data mining like crazy, selling your most personal thoughts, that you've given them access to, to the highest bidder, be it corporations, politicians, or the government. And that movie is already being made http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
The Vosgian Beast posted:Science fiction as predictive is a stupid ideal anyway. Futurology is impossible, what we got correct is mostly by dumb luck
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 19:14
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Mike Judge is a good writer who gets why it's funny that every undergrad's go-to damning indictment of a culture of idle hedonism is written by a guy whose other notable works are all trip reports, and none of them even know The Doors of Perception exists cause it's not on the curriculum. We're talking about BNW here?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:Wait, this is news to me. everyone I've ever met who likes the thing thinks the savage is a good guy
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
My fault, I read indictment as the polar opposite of what it means, for some reason. *brainfart*
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:There is nothing wrong with futurology films. The problem is people assuming those films say more about the future than the present. Sci-Fi films in general have been terrific historical relics that attest to ideas and concerns of their time. That's more or less what I was trying to get across.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
A much better novel against idle hedonism is The Joy Makers which spells out exactly the terrible consequences that come from the good intentions of hedonics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2015 21:34
|
|
|
precision posted:Isn't that a popular theory about the novel? It certainly strikes one as eminently possible right in the plain text. Literally nobody that we know of ever actually interacts with the two other countries. The war prisoners have to come from somewhere, I somehow doubt the rest of the world is fine.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
MeLKoR posted:The war prisoners have to come from somewhere, I somehow doubt the rest of the world is fine. Has someone made sure that it's not the same group of prisoners they just trot out whenever they need a display of power? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:Has someone made sure that it's not the same group of prisoners they just trot out whenever they need a display of power? Or it's not just some Scots and/or attempted escapees.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Or it's not just some Scots and/or attempted escapees. I think Smith gets to see some up-close and they're vaguely Asian-looking. I like to think the Party just has some extras from all over the world sitting at one of the Minis, using them depending on who is their enemy at the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
They should do a "We (Мы)" movie. It's bleak Russian-ness fits well with the current grimdark aesthetic, people are less likely to be familiar with it, and a lot of the descriptions of the future city and space program would make really great CGI set pieces. Plus, the romantic/anti-logic stance could be played up to appeal to middle America. They'd have to be cagey to make it work in some overseas markets (especially China) but I'm sure studios can figure it out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Grendels Dad posted:Has someone made sure that it's not the same group of prisoners they just trot out whenever they need a display of power? Ah, you must be speaking of crisis actors. Come with me friend, I must tell you a lot of stupid terrible poo poo about Sandy Hook that the Government Doesn't Want You to Know
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 22:49
|
|
|
Shbobdb posted:They should do a "We (Мы)" movie. It's bleak Russian-ness fits well with the current grimdark aesthetic, people are less likely to be familiar with it, and a lot of the descriptions of the future city and space program would make really great CGI set pieces. Plus, the romantic/anti-logic stance could be played up to appeal to middle America. They'd have to be cagey to make it work in some overseas markets (especially China) but I'm sure studios can figure it out. The future city and space program wouldn't look out of place in Flash Gordon. I like the political themes but the science is all goofy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 23:39
|
|
|
MeLKoR posted:The future city and space program wouldn't look out of place in Flash Gordon. I like the political themes but the science is all goofy. we could do with more movies with goofy science
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2015 23:59
|
|
|
a grimly serious Social Commentary Movie with Flash Gordon aesthetics and worldbuilding rather than, like, more dreary near-future poo poo where it's just the modern day with sentient robots to let you know it's the future and poo poo smeared on everything to let you know it's bad would own i realize this runs counter to the poo poo i was saying earlier about people only caring about the gadgets, and I don't care A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Aug 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2015 00:02
|
|
|
When the first trailer comes out with people wearing winged helmets it's gonna become an instant cult classic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
What's up with the anti-sex league members dressing all sexy, huh?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:everyone I've ever met who likes the thing thinks the savage is a good guy In the text itself he's clearly more ambiguous- right to be disenchanted and unhappy but going too far with his self-flagellating response. Bernard Marx is a bit more sympathetic though he was playing a power game bringing the Savage back to start with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
LionYeti posted:Or Brave New World without the sex I think Farenheit 451 matches modern reality the most, with its themes of aggressive anti-intellectualism, dumbing down of information into meaningless bite-sized tidbits to be served out as quickly as possible, and "interactive" TV shows that are really a facade to make the viewers think they matter. We've even got a mechanical hound. Nobody seems to ever take anything from it but the book burning though. None of the dystopian SF writers ever considered that when the worst nightmares of their fiction came to pass, the reaction would just be complete and total apathy. Man's true nature is to simply not give a poo poo. Also, I don't know how anyone can call Equilibrium "a good movie" unless the last time you saw it was in 2002 and/or when you were 15. david_a posted:Amazon will be there in 5 Suggesting Amazon isn't already there is awfully generous. raditts fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Aug 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2015 19:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:59 |
|
|
raditts posted:Also, I don't know how anyone can call Equilibrium "a good movie" unless the last time you saw it was in 2002 and/or when you were 15. It's extremely goofy but I stand by my statement.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2015 19:43
|
|