|
Right, discussion time!anilEhilated posted:Lil' angry there. On the one hand, this is a lot of where the "Bored Housewive" thing comes from... It's often quite arbitrary. But I will say that, despite my f-ing and blinding, I do want to keep things relatively civil. Just layin' that out there. MooCowlian posted:The "peel a butterfly off canvas" thing is something I've seen a lot and hasn't really bothered me until you raised it, but now it sounds really stupid. Thanks. Yeah, that's the downside of being a game reviewer with a heavy interest in game design... I have this nasty tendency of doing things like this. As to the screwdriver, it could be, but in the end, it's too dark to tell for sure. As to the structure thing, that is actually a good point! Many folks do want a reason for doing what they're doing, and story exists in games that don't need them, because... Actually, they're still helpful when done right. Of course, the key word is "When done right". Zuma has a story. It is the story of a frog who explores an island, and, due to the dexterity of his mouthparts, avoids traps and being sacrificed by spitting balls at other balls. It's no more complex than that, it sounds loving stupid when we try to explain it to someone... But it works. And this is a technique that has been used to great effect throughout video game history. Mario started as "There are some really loving violent turtles in the sewers. Help Mario fend them off for as long as possible!" and, because some of the games were popular due to their aesthetics, gameplay, and accessibility, we now have Paper Mario. Mario Galaxy. Captain Toad. Lord help us, we even have The Super Mario Bros Super Show. The problem is, HOPAs try to introduce narrative. And all of a sudden, because the plot has pacing, and beats, and characters, and twists, rather than a loose, one line justification with some characters vaguely attached, the developers of said games have introduced another layer of "We can piss someone (Usually multiple someones) off if this is done badly." When it's done well, it actually adds to the game (With the exception of the Hidden Objects, which are shoehorned in as heavily as a frog spitting balls for the most part), and we can, in fact, point to characters and say "I really like this person, they're done well." When it's done badly (As is the case with The Gift), we're given even more chances to groan than usual. Some plot threads are actually explained, but the main plot thread is... Look, what I'm saying is it's going to get nonsensical in a hurry, and some of these plot beats will have all of us (Even fans of the genre) crying "WE FUCKIN' GET IIIIIT!" FM (loving Magic) will be used, both figuratively and literally, to drive the plot. This isn't isolated to HOPAs, either, but can affect many a casual game. For example, Tales From The Orient: The Rising Sun is a match-3 game which uses 3 different types of match-3 mechanics. It's something to pleasantly while away the hours. Or rather, it would be pleasant, if I weren't being told by three different stereotypical jagoffs that I need to work toward a new building for this village of refugees (The justification story) pretty much every time I've completed a building and already know to work toward the next. It already gave me a pretty cutscene, I already know from the UI that my points go toward new buildings, and literally all they say is "We need this new building you're working towards. Here's an absolute bare bones description of why it would be nice. Also, I'm not going away until you hit OKAY (At which point one of my other compatriots may also chime in with their building." benjoyce posted:Yup, thank you for the logical dissection of my arguments. I am not positing an AS(C) (British scientists have adopted the term 'condition') vs. NT Ragnarök. That is a pernicious, binary view of neurological difference, going against the idea of a spectrum and subclinical autistic traits (the Broad Autism Phenotype). On the other hand, what do you think of Espen Aarseth's subchapter in which he calls the text adventure Deadline the "autistic detective agency" (1997, p. 115-123)? Adam Cadre, a notable IF writer suggests pretty much the same thing on his blog/homepage: Hrm. Again, I'm not really qualified to say, but it does present an interesting theory that's worth exploring by folks better than I! As to Austen, funnily enough, I don't actually think she was that conservative for her time, and I am by no means alone in this. Too many adaptations definitely doesn't help (Pride & Prejudice & Zombies was, imo, trash, from start to finish. Strained sounding trash too. I like my trash to flow, writing wise... Not halt and stammer in badly aped formal conventions of formal writers), but another part of it is that there's a heavy element of social satire in many of her works (P&P included), and it's surprisingly difficult to argue this with even many professors. (EDIT: I learned this the hard way, as one of my professors basically said "Nope, no social commentary here!" :P ) Essentially, I'm with Kate Beaton on this one.  Good points are being raised, although it must be noted that, for all individual segments can be played in a short space of time, while on the phone or bored, the games themselves can be between 3 and 8 hours of play, depending on their complexity, backtracking, whether you listen to speech (Sometimes you do sort of have to, even if journals help), and whether you get stuck (Possible reasons for getting stuck will become apparent later in The Gift, although we've seen a small hint of it already), and doing that all in one sitting is, like marathoning pretty much any casual game, not good for you. I can guarantee that almost none of these games (And the majority of casual games, for that matter) won't tell you to take breaks.  EDIT: For information purposes, we are currently at the 23 to 24 minute range of capture footage. Out of the hour or so that's taking up silly amounts of my HD space. grandalt posted:Hmm, the images in the second update don't appear to be working right. They seem to be loading alright for some folks, but if you can lemme know what the problem is, I'll look into it. EDIT: Oh, apparently LPix is down. Well, have patience, folks! JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 19, 2015 |
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 18:02
|
|
(I don't believe she was autistic, nor that P&P was a showcase for Asperger's in 19th c. England, but I really do wonder about other people's ideas.) Uh, going back to AGs and HOPAs, I don't necessarily think that people on the spectrum are somehow ruling the games industry and bring us subpar games, merely that the constraints and affordances of the genre, its conventions, the expectations of the audience and the design team, as well as the machines on which they are played have all contributed to this object-oriented (in the literal, not the CS sense) gameplay with a reduced focus on nonverbal sociality and sta(b)le patterns of problem-solving. 
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:43 |
|
|
Oh come on, generic female protagonist #39, by poking around in that murder scene you've destroyed any chance for your cop buddy to find useful finger prints. You should know better than that. Well done. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 18:34
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the little hand icon has gloves on.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 19:10
|
|
|
 Dammit Sarah! Now how am I gonna explain to my superiors why the crime scene smells like incense and goat piss!?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
SSNeoman posted:
 It's cat piss!
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
Not going to lie, these are a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. Sure, the plots always hit the same notes and the same drat puzzles show up over and over again, but there's something weirdly engaging about them to me and it's nice to play something you can sort of zone out with rather than having to worry about reflexes and stuff. That said, I usually only buy them in Bundles, because who has ten bux to pay for something like this, seriously?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
Just so folks know, the update is going to be delayed by a day or two. I'm rarely in the best of health in late August (Living by the coast is not, funnily enough, a guarantor of health), so I'm concentrating on getting better, and getting the articles I've already got done for my (currently not-so-successful) review gig up. Obviously, this delay might last until I get better if things get worse, but none of my LPs or reviews are getting abandoned. Just delayed a tadge. FAKE EDIT: Aaaand I posted this in the wrong drat thread the first time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2015 16:46
|
|
|
Looking forward to more updates, Jamie, as soon as you can recover. Much like cat-hair moustaches, this is the sort of thing that should be presented. But I hope you've got some quality stuff to share in the pipe, too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2015 19:56
|
|
|
I think the choice of going with 2012 and 2011 games is interesting, since a lot of design conventions for these games change within a year. The ye olden ancient Hidden Object games were just random screens with a list of items to find, but later on it became more "story heavy". There's also stuff like puzzle/interaction over-saturation. Since the development time for a HOPA is anywhere between 6 and 12 months, lots of devs borrow from other devs, so eventually every game in 201X has something like a "obligatory sliding puzzle" and "use a screwdriver on a screw" (which was later innovated into... use coin on screw! Until people got sick of that too). So, if you played something from 2011 and 2015, I think differences would have been more apparent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 09:04
|
|
|
RealSovietBear posted:I think the choice of going with 2012 and 2011 games is interesting, since a lot of design conventions for these games change within a year. The ye olden ancient Hidden Object games were just random screens with a list of items to find, but later on it became more "story heavy". There's also stuff like puzzle/interaction over-saturation. Since the development time for a HOPA is anywhere between 6 and 12 months, lots of devs borrow from other devs, so eventually every game in 201X has something like a "obligatory sliding puzzle" and "use a screwdriver on a screw" (which was later innovated into... use coin on screw! Until people got sick of that too). So, if you played something from 2011 and 2015, I think differences would have been more apparent. Wow, you've... Hit upon one of the more difficult things for me to discuss and explain well, so forgive me if my wordsing on this subject is less than stellar. While cross pollination of ideas and developers is undoubtedly a factor, it's just as likely that people independently came to the same conclusions, and it's a little misleading to say that the differences are generally more apparent, because... ...Due to a number of factors, this may not be the case. For example, Hidden Object games which are just "Here's a picture and a list of objects comprising a level" still exist. They're still being made. One of my main problems with Cateia Games is precisely that they haven't demonstrated much improvement over their lineup. And experiments early in the genre's history can be forgotten for a year or three, then suddenly resurrected. We see it all the time with the "larger" genres. For example, Giana Sisters (The modern versions) take elements from modern game design, but the basic premise has remained unchanged since its original, somewhat contentious origins, because it's a common thought process. Jump on things. Get lewt. Fight boss. The devil, as they say, is in the details. And this is one of the interesting (and infuriating) things for game historians and journalists... Gamedev goes sideways, backwards, upwards, downwards, sometimes forwards (For given values of those directions. ), and it's sometimes incredibly difficult to classify something as a "90s Game Design Concept" or a "Molyneux Concept" from single elements... It's usually multiple elements in concert that lead to better characterisation, as individual features or attitudes are chopped and changed not just according to year, but team preference, player preference... A whole bunch of variables. For example, save importing, while most commonly attributed to the era's equivalents of AAA RPGs (Might and Magic, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect) are also seen in Turn Based or Pausable Strategy (The "Interlocking Game System" of the Breach series and its counterparts, Paradox games) and even platformers (Banjo Kazooie, Sonic and Knuckles)... You'd also think they'd begin at a certain point, but even games made on 8 bit systems have been shown to have elements of this.I guess what I'm trying to say is that design conventions are more guidelines than anything else, and are affected by more than just fashions, but a variety of factors. Good example of a further confusion would be legal kerfuffles over what appear to be copyrighted or patented mechanics. Crazy Taxi vs Simpsons Hit 'N' Run. Eternal Darkness vs Cthulhu (And how they got around it). These things, when they happen, tend to shut down common solutions to a problem (IE - A Sanity "Meter") until either the company who caused the kerfuffle goes under, or folks stop caring enough to litigate over it. Half the "fun" (Sometimes I remove the quotes, sometimes I don't) is that not all of these factors are apparent, and some never will be. For all I actually know, part of the reason Eye of the Beholder 3 was such a shitshow was because of someone higher up the SSI/TSR totem pole saying "No, gently caress you, we're doing it this way because that way is what Westwood wanted." It's unlikely, and unsupportable by any evidence we may have today... All that is actually known is that SSI and Westwood both cited "Creative Differences" as the reason EoB3 was solely developed in-house. And that covers a lot of ground. Part of the reason it's tough to write about this is because there are exceptions to the exceptions to the exceptions... Which just adds to the fun. Anyways, should have the update up this Saturday, barring more distractions, illness, and annoyances. It's not all been bad, but it's definitely been a tadge stressful, and I thank you for bearing with me, both in this, my LPs, and my other writings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
This seems like an interesting project. I remember playing a few hidden object games in the past, though none really stuck with me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2015 02:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:43 |
|
|
As someone who plays these, I acknowledge they're not great. But what they are is short, inexpensive, and fairly satisfying, at least from my perspective, for the period of time they last. They're essentially the video game equivalent of junk food: Inexpensive, not particularly good, but they satisfy a craving. And a lot of the time, I feel like playing them when I don't feel like playing the numerous better games I have, simply because I know for certain that I can make progress or even complete them withing a short period of time. And I think that's a good deal of the appeal. They're *short*. They're good for a quick jolt of satisfaction without having to spend too long, for a quick feeling of having accomplished something, even if, in all honestly, it's something kinda dumb So basically they're for cases when you're just  . That said, they could still very definitely be improved, and I'd like to see them get better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2015 15:21
|
|
