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turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
The New York Times put out a pretty scathing article about Amazon's work practices, which is well worth a read if you work in the Tech sector. It highlights how far a large company can go trying to achieve the highest possible quality and productivity from its employees.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

Couple this with some other recent articles about how badly some famous tech companies treat employees (Tesla) and how competition for tech workers is pretty high, and it brings up an interesting point for discussion.

Is what Amazon's doing the new normal for the tech sector? Is it correct to do that? What would be the antithesis of that, and how well does that work?

There's been a response from an Amazonian:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/amazonians-response-inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-nick-ciubotariu

And it's started to go recursive! There's been a response to the response:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ex-amazonians-reply-all-those-amazonian-replies-times-mehal-shah

turn it up TURN ME ON fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Aug 17, 2015

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Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Amazon intentionally chooses not to make a profit, so their employees are poo poo out of luck. If you're worth a drat then you don't loving work at Amazon you work at Google or Apple if you want to earn.

If we're talking small-employees, there is zero pressure on technology companies to ever treat them right, because tech basically saved the US consumer economy.

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!
There's a glut of tech workers right? And they themselves don't seem to want to unionize. Perfect conditions for exploitation.

TheBalor
Jun 18, 2001

Relin posted:

There's a glut of tech workers right? And they themselves don't seem to want to unionize. Perfect conditions for exploitation.

And they tend to be paid well enough that they don't see how a union would benefit them, which is funny because even with their high salaries, the top developers are probably undercompensated compared to the value they create for the big tech firms.

Of course, the threat of that is why all the tech companies are so big on opening the visa worker floodgates, so they can have an endless stream of South/East Asian developers to depress wages to almost nothing.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

TheBalor posted:

And they tend to be paid well enough that they don't see how a union would benefit them, which is funny because even with their high salaries, the top developers are probably undercompensated compared to the value they create for the big tech firms.

Under compensation is motivation to prove you deserve to be paid at all.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

TheBalor posted:

And they tend to be paid well enough that they don't see how a union would benefit them, which is funny because even with their high salaries, the top developers are probably undercompensated compared to the value they create for the big tech firms.

Probably. Though the "value" (valuation) for tech firms is unrealistically and unsustainably crazy to begin with though. I suspect in actual valuation, it might not be that out of balance.

TheBalor
Jun 18, 2001

Xaris posted:

Probably. Though the "value" (valuation) for tech firms is unrealistically and unsustainably crazy to begin with though. I suspect in actual valuation, it might not be that out of balance.

Sure, sure. But that disparity is probably why so many jump on the startup lottery. Why work at a job that's grinding you dry when you can be your own boss and at least have a chance at being king of your own little overvalued kingdom?

Actually, since it came up: can anyone explain what is the likely future of the current tech valuation issue? I've been hearing for years that companies like Twitter are immensely overvalued, but the other shoe never seems to drop. I'm getting china stock market blue balls here.

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

I wouldn't want any kind of market correction on tech companies as I do not desire another deep recession.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

TheBalor posted:

Actually, since it came up: can anyone explain what is the likely future of the current tech valuation issue? I've been hearing for years that companies like Twitter are immensely overvalued, but the other shoe never seems to drop. I'm getting china stock market blue balls here.

First it's important to differentiate between startups (like Twitter) and more established companies like Amazon, Google, and the like. The latter probably won't have many issues when this bubble pops.

Currently, startups are funded by venture capitalists (VCs), which are basically rich guys that give you money in the hopes that you become the next Google or whatever. The status quo for the past few years has been venture capitalists dumping money at anything tech related because everyone else was doing it (thus continuing the cycle). This is how you get things like Uber having revenue of $420 million and having expenses of twice that amount.

These days, there has been a slow and quiet drawdown of the VC money, because it turns out barely any of these companies actually make tangible revenue (Facebook is a notable exception, as are a few others). Once the money really runs out you're going to see Uber et all close, and a whole bunch of coders are going to flood the market looking for jobs.

Nonsense posted:

I wouldn't want any kind of market correction on tech companies as I do not desire another deep recession.

Actually the great thing about tech companies is that there are relatively small numbers of people actually working at these companies. Like, 10% of the number of people working at them during the Dot Com bubble of 15 years ago.

Radbot
Aug 12, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!
To me, by far the most interesting part about that article was the Anytime Feedback Tool (basically a system that literally encourages you to snitch on anyone at any time to their boss). This seems like an insanely naive thing that some libertarian would implement without understanding the social and human dynamics behind it, am I completely off base about that?

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Radbot posted:

To me, by far the most interesting part about that article was the Anytime Feedback Tool (basically a system that literally encourages you to snitch on anyone at any time to their boss). This seems like an insanely naive thing that some libertarian would implement without understanding the social and human dynamics behind it, am I completely off base about that?

It certainly fits, and seems perfectly reasonable if you treat your workforce as a collection of drones with unpredictable levels of imperfection rather than as people.

Pervis
Jan 12, 2001

YOSPOS

Relin posted:

There's a glut of tech workers right? And they themselves don't seem to want to unionize. Perfect conditions for exploitation.

There's a glut, sort of. There's a shortage of experienced people in general (because of the early to mid-2000's labor contractions) and experienced people willing to work for not-so-good wages at lovely companies rather than going to work at (decent) startups. There's a glut of ok-to-mediocre people for a variety of reasons, plus an absolutely fuckton of foreign workers that have immigrated over the last decade. During a slowdown those two things are going to be more of a problem and push wages down dramatically for most people, as well as renewing the call to curb visa abuse and somehow deal with all the visa holders that now no longer have a job and are sorta expected to leave after being here a decade. Lots of good people will be lost who will go and start companies in China/India, while lots of not so good people will stay around to depress wages at companies who aren't quick to adapt and have been riding that train for a long time.

I expect that the rampant outsourcing/insourcing/H1-B abuse will come back to bite all the businesses in the rear end who've been abusing it, hard, as smart companies snap up all the good employees with good compensation packages and play the long game, while the bad ones just try to maintain or increase profits by focusing on labor costs (since most executives will be able to get rich that way, regardless of how well the company fares afterwards). That's pretty much what happened during the bubble and the economic slowdowns in the 2000's.

computer parts posted:

Currently, startups are funded by venture capitalists (VCs), which are basically rich guys that give you money in the hopes that you become the next Google or whatever. The status quo for the past few years has been venture capitalists dumping money at anything tech related because everyone else was doing it (thus continuing the cycle). This is how you get things like Uber having revenue of $420 million and having expenses of twice that amount.

These days, there has been a slow and quiet drawdown of the VC money, because it turns out barely any of these companies actually make tangible revenue (Facebook is a notable exception, as are a few others). Once the money really runs out you're going to see Uber et all close, and a whole bunch of coders are going to flood the market looking for jobs.

Adding to this, VC's all hope to have an exit plan for their investments, either by startups getting bought by Google/Facebook/etc, or by going public, and there's limits to how many startups can realistically be bought or IPO and actually deliver to shareholders. Eventually both companies and the stock market will sour on purchasing startups, especially as more and more startups are just get-rich-quick schemes with no real business longevity (like, much worse than what we already see). VC's see the writing on the wall and don't want to get caught holding the bag, since people aren't nearly as stupid as during the last bubble.. yet.

All that said, the market overall is still going to grow as things shift to mobile and the internet evolves in to whatever and continues to eat up other industries. Lots of services that were impossible to run business-wise 10 years ago are plausible now thanks to improvements in technology.

quote:

Actually the great thing about tech companies is that there are relatively small numbers of people actually working at these companies. Like, 10% of the number of people working at them during the Dot Com bubble of 15 years ago.

Yeah, while we're in a bubble of sorts, it's nothing close to the insanity of the last bubble in terms of hiring anyone with a pulse and vast amounts of executives. The level of nepotism back then was absolutely staggering. There's actual, no poo poo revenue nowadays, though not to the degree necessary for a lot of these companies to continue to function well during a slowdown. The downside is that while the labor market is really good right now for those with the right experience and connections, it's not good for the rest of the populace, unlike last time. I think that's more about the general American and Global economy than the industry though.

Ideally the bubble doesn't pop hard like in the DotCom days, and is just a slowdown/correction. That being said, I expect that just like in the early 2000's companies will be very quick to push wages downwards as a group, and continue to beat the visa drum as hard as possible. It's a very easy way to prop up profits in the face of a slowdown. Generally self-defeating though, as there will still be startups and whatnot going, and those will attract the best people if their stable employers are loving around.

Kassad
Nov 12, 2005

It's about time.

Radbot posted:

This seems like an insanely naive thing that some libertarian would implement without understanding the social and human dynamics behind it, am I completely off base about that?

It was almost funny, considering the part earlier in the article that talked about Amazon wanting to avoid "office politics". And then they add a system to vote out people like in a reality TV show. Consistent! :shepface:

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Kassad posted:

It was almost funny, considering the part earlier in the article that talked about Amazon wanting to avoid "office politics". And then they add a system to vote out people like in a reality TV show. Consistent! :shepface:

I thought the same exact thing. Office politics is when people try to cut each other's throats and generally do things that distract from actually getting things done. It seems to me like the anytime feedback tool is pretty much going to guarantee you have an increase in politics.

I think Amazon basically just wants to get insanely "engaged" employees through a brute force methodology, right? They hire thousands of people and weed out anyone who isn't willing to dedicate 100% of their life to working there, and they motivate those people... somehow? Do they just pay a shitload more than other companies in the area?

Meanwhile, real sustainable engagement is difficult to do. If you ask talented tech people why they stay at a company, you'll find that it's hard to really define.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
There was a big discussion on this in SH/SC in the working in IT thread, it'd be worth skimming the last few pages if you want an industry perspective.

One thing, Amazon's profitability is deceptive. They're in growth mode right now, all their profit is reinvested into trying to win the Cloud Services war.

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment
Reading articles like this, it amazes me that tech companies don't get firebombed every other week. :dogbutton:

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Klaus88 posted:

Reading articles like this, it amazes me that tech companies don't get firebombed every other week. :dogbutton:

That's the kind of attitude that results in an anonymous complaint to a manager.

Mrit
Sep 26, 2007

by exmarx
Grimey Drawer

SquadronROE posted:


I think Amazon basically just wants to get insanely "engaged" employees through a brute force methodology, right? They hire thousands of people and weed out anyone who isn't willing to dedicate 100% of their life to working there, and they motivate those people... somehow? Do they just pay a shitload more than other companies in the area?

Meanwhile, real sustainable engagement is difficult to do. If you ask talented tech people why they stay at a company, you'll find that it's hard to really define.

To answer this, Amazon has a... reputation in Seattle for being a lovely place to work. Lots of money to start, terrible raises, no life. So much of the hiring is done out of state, by heavily recruiting fresh graduates from flyover states.

I work in tech and used to work with(not for) amazon, and I would never take a job with them.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Klaus88 posted:

Reading articles like this, it amazes me that tech companies don't get firebombed every other week. :dogbutton:

It's surprised me just how vehemently against unionization tech workers are. Compared to the value a good developer or engineer can bring to the company (literally millions of dollars in some cases) they generally put up with terrible work conditions. Long hours are generally the norm, especially at companies in growth mode.

A lot of engineers just see this as normal though, and management has gotten really great at manipulating their sense of worth to encourage long hours. For example, they'll give someone a problem that's intellectually interesting to their field (we need a better search algorithm, this one isn't fast enough!) and watch as they burn away their entire life trying to solve the problem.

EDIT: Interesting, I didn't know they had such a bad reputation. I know about 5 of our engineers (from SC) have left to go work for them, so the recruiting efforts make sense. I wonder if they're going to realize they can't just keep doing that eternally? I wonder how much time and money is wasted having to ramp up new developers.

ugh its Troika
May 2, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Part of the shortage of tech workers are dumb hiring requirements, as well. No one wants to run some company's entire everything for 25-30 grand a year.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

SquadronROE posted:

EDIT: Interesting, I didn't know they had such a bad reputation. I know about 5 of our engineers (from SC) have left to go work for them, so the recruiting efforts make sense. I wonder if they're going to realize they can't just keep doing that eternally?

The sad thing is, they probably could

nachos
Jun 27, 2004

Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Much like how America is full of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, tech workers are temporarily embarrassed CEOs in the gig economy. People are taught to pay their dues and gain experience until they can find their passion and be their own boss or whatever. Nobody is going to dream of starting the next Uber while simultaneously pushing for unionization.

My Imaginary GF
Jul 17, 2005

by R. Guyovich

nachos posted:

Much like how America is full of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, tech workers are temporarily embarrassed CEOs in the gig economy. People are taught to pay their dues and gain experience until they can find their passion and be their own boss or whatever. Nobody is going to dream of starting the next Uber while simultaneously pushing for unionization.

What about an uber-like app, but for unionization?

Maybe an app to get around card check?

Radbot
Aug 12, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!

-Troika- posted:

Part of the shortage of tech workers are dumb hiring requirements, as well. No one wants to run some company's entire everything for 25-30 grand a year.

Uh, yeah they do, they're called "everyone living in a third world country that has IT skills". Hence H1-Bs.

nachos posted:

Much like how America is full of temporarily embarrassed millionaires, tech workers are temporarily embarrassed CEOs in the gig economy. People are taught to pay their dues and gain experience until they can find their passion and be their own boss or whatever. Nobody is going to dream of starting the next Uber while simultaneously pushing for unionization.

Exactly, unionization is the literal complete antithesis of lottery startup culture - it means admitting that you'll never "make it". Unionization will never happen in the tech industry until that aspect is removed (lol).

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
When I brought up Unionization to my friends, they didn't object to it because they felt like they could achieve more on their own. They mostly objected to it because they didn't feel like they were underpaid or overworked.

Meanwhile one of them works most weekends, and another is on call just about every other week.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!

Guy DeBorgore
Apr 6, 1994

Catnip is the opiate of the masses
Soiled Meat
Mischief, mayhem and chaos are like the three things that should never ever come from an IT department.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!

Holy poo poo that's awful. "Yeah we'll work you super hard and you won't have a life at all because you need to be there NOW but we have banned buzzwords."

Not for CORPORATE.

Ghost of Reagan Past
Oct 7, 2003

rock and roll fun

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!
This ain't some $50k+ job, you gotta WANT it!!!

Radbot
Aug 12, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!
Do the people that post these things ever step back and say "now, why would someone want to work here based on what I just wrote"?

suck my woke dick
Oct 10, 2012

:siren:I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!:siren:

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Radbot posted:

Do the people that post these things ever step back and say "now, why would someone want to work here based on what I just wrote"?

No, because there are enough idiots with sufficient IT skills that want to ~-live the dream~ (of being a glorified computer janitor)

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


Radbot posted:

Do the people that post these things ever step back and say "now, why would someone want to work here based on what I just wrote"?

No, see the occasion serious posting of them in the SH/SC job thread.

My Imaginary GF
Jul 17, 2005

by R. Guyovich
Amazon's "harsher and less forgiving" means whiter and less opportunities to fail upward.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!

There's a post that accompanies this talking about how all of their lines are moldy as gently caress and how the CEO fires everyone and then makes them beg for their jobs back.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!

Oh, I thought that was the Penny Arcade one.

quote:

Job description
**** PLEASE NOTE: YOU HAVE UNTIL DECEMBER 20, 2013 AT 9:00 PM PST TO SUBMIT YOUR APPLICATION. PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AT @RKHOO FOR UPDATES IN CASE EMAIL GETS SENT TO SPAM FOLDERS, ETC. ****



Given our audience and the job at hand, this could potentially be the most competitive position we ever hire for. We're looking for a web developer / software developer / sys admin to join our small family. We’re a team of 15-20 people that essentially run Penny Arcade proper, the online store, our fulfillment center, the PAX shows, Child’s Play, PATV, and a bunch of other smaller things that no one ever hears about. We rely heavily on outside partners and vendors, but as far as managing and helping run/deploy the technical infrastructure to most of the things we do, we rely on one person. That person is you.



So yes, we run lean. Most of us would say maybe a little TOO lean, but being pushed to your limit is part of the job. I'm not saying that to try and scare you away OR impress you, but it's in both of our best interests to understand and set expectations properly. If you have boundless energy and desire to work on both creative AND sometimes tedious work but in an environment that just might change your life, perhaps this is the opportunity for you.



We are quite literally looking for a person that can do four jobs: Web Development, Software Development, Sys Admin, and the (dreaded) GENERAL IT for us here that need help configuring a firewall for a dev kit, etc. Sorry, I know that’s the WORST, but it’s absolutely part of the gig.



So yeah, we know that’s a lot to ask of a person, but all of us here work tremendously hard to do a lot of things, and if you’d like to be at the technical epicenter of it all and don’t mind having a really bad sense of work-life balance, this is the job for you.

Desired Skills and Experience
General Requirements

- You need to have a crazy-person level of attention to detail.

- Strong project management skills, organizational skills and time-management skills.

- A motivated self-starter who can overcome or workaround issues independently.

- Flexibility to travel up to 30% of the time.

- You should have no problems working in a creative and potentially offensive environment.

- Flexibility adapting to deadlines, changing schedules, priorities and unpredictable events in a fast paced environment.

- The ability to communicate and work well in a team environment as well as on an individual basis.

- Must have the ability to prioritize tasks and balance the immediate and long term needs.

- You should have no problem appearing on camera.

- It’s rarely we call on it, but if something breaks in the middle of the night, you are expected to be on call to address that issue 24/7.



Some things you should know about this job.



We’re terrible at work-life balance. Although work is pretty much your life, we do our absolute best to make sure that work is as awesome as possible so you at least enjoy each and every day here.



And here are some other things we’re using to weed people out. It’s not fair. I know. Life’s not fair.



- A BA/BS or greater degree in Computer Science or a related field

- A minimum of 3 years in development and project management, preferably in a professional workplace

- Strong experience in PHP, MySQL, Javascript (jQuery and AJAX), CSS, Apache

- Strong experience in one of Java, Python, Ruby, or other object-oriented language

- A history of running and configuring multiple-server environments, including load balancers, web accelerators/caching systems, and databases

- A history of running and configuring multiple server environments, load balancers, and varnish.

- You should probably be a fan of Penny Arcade. Probably. Yeah.





COMPENSATION AND BENEFITS:



- Annual Salary: Negotiable, but you should know up front we’re not a terribly money-motivated group. We’re more likely to spend less money on salary and invest that on making your day-to-day life at work better.

- Full Medical, Vision and Dental

- 401k (SEP) retirement contributions (2% of annual income per year)

- Holiday pay

- Periodic bonuses

- Flexible vacation time

- We're willing to relocate you if need be

Send me your resume via the linked in system. If you don't submit your resume, I won't look at your application. Sorry - I gotta streamline the process.

Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


computer parts posted:

Oh, I thought that was the Penny Arcade one.

That sounds like a cult.

Klaus88
Jan 23, 2011

Violence has its own economy, therefore be thoughtful and precise in your investment

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:



I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!


Phone posted:

There's a post that accompanies this talking about how all of their lines are moldy as gently caress and how the CEO fires everyone and then makes them beg for their jobs back.

:wow:

Lets be fair, the tech-priests at least value their workers slightly more then your average tech company.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

This job posting is infamous in the IT industry:

I think that if you wanted to unionize IT workers you'd have to change the terminology to sound like it came out of Warhammer 40K.

Union? No, we're the local 207 Techno-Artificers Guild. Based on my seniority, I'll be promoted to Adeptus-Sysadminus in less than a year!

Rogue is pretty notorious for being terrible, both for abusing their employees and producing a subpar product in a saturated market (Oregonian brewing). Horror stories coming from current/former employees seems to be pretty common. They more or less get by with their marketing and distribution access.

(edit:)

Also, to add to their list of atrocities, they were the ones produces that horrible "Voodoo Doughnuts" line of beer (Voodoo Doughnuts also treats their employees like poo poo).


It would be great if they (either company) crash and burned, and their properties and equipment were bought up to do something else worthwhile.

Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Aug 17, 2015

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Ardennes posted:

Rogue is pretty notorious for being terrible, both by basically abusing their employees but producing a subpar product in a saturated market (Oregonian brewing). They more or less get by with their marketing and distribution access.

It would be great if they crash and burned, and their properties and equipment were bought up to do something else worthwhile.

Too be fair, the moldy beer business isn't terribly saturated because it's mostly just Guinness. :v:

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Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
The experience is pretty variable for devs at Amazon. I worked there for two and a half years and was definitely not overworked, nor did anyone on my team or related teams at Seattle seem to be overworked. Occasionally there'd be some crunch prior to launch, maybe a couple times a year, but an average week I'd work 8 hours a day including lunch. Part of that may have been being a device team (Android stuff) because that means there aren't any servers to constantly manage, if there's a big problem the best you can do is push out a fix with the next patch.

There were a few people who consistently worked overtime, but it seemed to be because they were ambitious or really cared about their product, not because they were pushed to.

Now, the devs in India did seem to work insane hours, and people who had to coordinate with India often had to do phone meetings at awful times, but I'm not sure how fixable of a problem the latter is given the time zone difference.

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