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The only Miyazaki dub I watch is the french Porco Rosso one, because they got Jean Reno to play Porco.
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Dec 5, 2015 06:07
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One thing to be careful of when dealing with Miyazaki is that some of Disney's discs have dubtitles instead of subtitles. Basically, the subtitle track is based off of the script used for dubbing, so even if you're watching with Japanese dialog, you're not getting an accurate translation. I know the bluray for Princess Mononoke has that issue. I forget which other ones do too.
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Dec 5, 2015 06:44
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jivjov posted:So I'm planning on watching Kiki's Delivery Service in the next day or two; and in my preliminary research I've seen some rumblings about the recent dub having "ruined" the movie for some people. Is this standard internet hyperbole? Or should I seek out the older DVD or just watch the film in Japanese? i find all miyazaki dubs intolerable. they think they can paper over subpar voice acting by virtue of cramming in as many famous people as they can. watch it in japanese. Phil Hartman's cool and all but hearing his voice out of that cat completely changes the character for the worse.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:27
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:i find all miyazaki dubs intolerable. they think they can paper over subpar voice acting by virtue of cramming in as many famous people as they can. watch it in japanese. Huh...interesting; a lot of other internet buzz I'd seen said the exact opposite; that Miyazaki dubs were considered as good as, if not better that, the original Japanese performances. Regardless; I'll definitely be watching Kiki in Japanese just due to the controversy over the dub.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:42
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jivjov posted:Huh...interesting; a lot of other internet buzz I'd seen said the exact opposite; that Miyazaki dubs were considered as good as, if not better that, the original Japanese performances. Regardless; I'll definitely be watching Kiki in Japanese just due to the controversy over the dub. i think that probably is the consensus, but I hate that poo poo. it feels like a relic from the days when guys like the Weinsteins thought there wasn't enough interest for people to enjoy the movies on their own merits so they had to get some famous white people voices in there. it makes sense from a "movies to take your children to" point of view, since children often can't read subtitles. but as a literate adult, I can't imagine watching the dubs by choice.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:46
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:i think that probably is the consensus, but I hate that poo poo. it feels like a relic from the days when guys like the Weinsteins thought there wasn't enough interest for people to enjoy the movies on their own merits so they had to get some famous white people voices in there. I think that might be it right there. Even children who have learned to read would probably not get a whole lot of enjoyment out of having to read along to an entire film.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:51
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jivjov posted:I think that might be it right there. Even children who have learned to read would probably not get a whole lot of enjoyment out of having to read along to an entire film. oh, most definitely, although that argument breaks down when you get to stuff like Princess Mononoke and to a lesser extent The Wind Rises which are decidedly not kids' movies. but it does make sense from a marketing perspective, if not an artistic one.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:54
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I have to admit that I'm curious about The Wind Rises' dub if only because the idea of Werner Herzog voicing an anime character is hilarious to me.
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Dec 5, 2015 18:02
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jivjov posted:that Miyazaki dubs were considered as good as, if not better that, the original Japanese performances. All dubs are poo poo, some are more tolerable than others but Phil Hartman doesn't make this thoughtful small coming-of-age movie better, as cool and funny as he was in everything else he did.
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Dec 5, 2015 18:11
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Illinois Smith posted:All dubs are poo poo Well, except for Italian movie dubs, which are obviously dope
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Dec 5, 2015 18:16
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And the Cowboy Bebop dub.
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Dec 5, 2015 18:21
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The English dub for Lupin III is far and away better.
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Dec 5, 2015 18:27
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Raxivace posted:I have to admit that I'm curious about The Wind Rises' dub if only because the idea of Werner Herzog voicing an anime character is hilarious to me. I liked the dub, but I haven't heard the original Japanese voices though.
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Dec 5, 2015 19:15
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The only thing to remember is that the bluray includes dubtitles as oppose to the translation of the Japanese dialog. So you're not really getting an accurate experience. I heard the import discs have accurate subtitles. It's sad that Disney screwed that up.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:32
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There's probably a website where you can download subtitle files to sync up right? I can't imagine that doesn't exist.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:52
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Hat Thoughts posted:There's probably a website where you can download subtitle files to sync up right? I can't imagine that doesn't exist. There most certainly is. It's just a matter of knowing if you need to do it and then if it is worth going through the trouble. It's also a problem with Princess Mononoke, but only the newest issue. The original dvd had proper subtitles. It's a shame, since by nature, a dub track will be different from the subtitles, and Disney never fixed it.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:15
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This is a pretty rad thread. except for all the derailing about which version is best to Illinois Smith posted:Just try to wrap your mind around Ghibli releasing Totoro and Grave of the Fireflies as a double feature in 1988. It showed up at my house in a torn-apart blank DVD case with "TO-TORO" written on the front, on a piece of packing tape when I ended up babysitting the kid a couple/few years later. The kid wouldn't put it down until almost puberty. I was so proud.   edit: it's also a good movie for small kids with parents who get divorced. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 00:48
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coyo7e posted:This is a pretty rad thread. except for all the derailing about which version is best to As derails go, I'm pretty okay with this one. Way back up in my OP, my only description of Miyazaki stuff was "Ah yes, the heartwarming anime stuff with a primary audience of children." And then there was Grave of the Fireflies. That extreme example aside, it's interesting to explore the concept of how to show a foreign children's movie to children. I was capable of reading just past age 2; I picked it up remarkably quickly...but I don't think I would have enjoyed reading along to a movie. Even now; part of the reason my reviews take so long is that I have to really dedicate some time to watching them. I prefer to use the big TV rather than my computer, as having the subtitles bigger helps me. So then you come to dub options. Not all dubs are created equal. Some change the whole story and tone; others are just more verbose than the originals.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:28
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If you liked Grave of the Fireflies well enough, I might suggest that you check out the Israeli animated film Waltz With Bashir, an autobiography of a soldier's experiences during the invasion of Jordan.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:14
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Are you gonna do any of Takahata's other stuff, specifically Pom Poko? Because that's Takahata at his silliest. While still packing an emotional punch, most of his other movies don't feature shape-shifting raccoons with giant balls. It makes for a nice counterpart to Fireflies.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:30
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Illinois Smith posted:Are you gonna do any of Takahata's other stuff, specifically Pom Poko? Because that's Takahata at his silliest. While still packing an emotional punch, most of his other movies don't feature shape-shifting raccoons with giant balls. It makes for a nice counterpart to Fireflies. I'll be doing the entire Studio Ghibli output, so yeah, I'll hit Pom Poko eventually.
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Dec 7, 2015 04:49
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If you guys want to watch a great film that's not anime or classic japanese, check out "The Lion Standing in the Wind" - Kaze ni Tatsu Lion. It's an amazing movie about a Japanese doctor who moves to Kenya to work in a Hospital treating and rehabilitating child soldiers and other victims of warfare in Africa.
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Dec 8, 2015 08:49
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 Kiki's Delivery Service Released July 29th 1989, Directed by Hayao Miyazaki My first impressions after finishing up Kiki was that this was a very beautiful, well-animated film. The design of the city of Koriko, from the streets to the aerial views, were just so well crafted. I just want to go spend a week or two exploring the town Kiki sets up her delivery service in. The overarching theme of this film seems to be adulthood, and managing self-doubt. Kiki sets out at age 13, as is customary for witches, to make her own way in the world. I'm vaguely reminded of the Pokemon franchise, where nobody bats an eye when a 10 year old travels the country, financing their own journey, not under constant supervision. I honestly wonder if this trope in Japanese media stems from a cultural difference between America and Japan. In the US, there's a pretty strict line of "adulthood" at age 18, with adult responsibilities (like steady employment) not really kicking in til around age 16 or so. A lot of Japanese media seems to imply that these sort of responsibilities are meant to be taken on at a younger age; but a lot of the Japanese media I've consumed seems to be aimed at children so my observations may be skewed by that. Kiki's crisis of confidence is handled really well over the course of the movie. She speaks with Ursula, Jiji, and Osono about her feelings, and really gets across her feelings. It is a very common adolescent experience to feel out of place, disconnected, and unsure of the future. And, much like what happens with Kiki, the mental "spinning the wheels" can translate to very real issues of apathy or depression. With Kiki this manifests as her being unable to fly her broom any longer. Its a bit of a conceit that she can "force" her powers to work to save Tombo's life in the climax instead of coming back to them more organically, but it works in the moment. Someone needs her help, and her help can only be provided if she uses her special gifts. It's a sort of manifestation of the realization that many teens need to go through that the world does not revolve around them. Tombo is a fun character, and I'm glad that his friendship with Kiki plays out like it does. There's no grand romance, they aren't a cute little couple at the end. He becomes Kiki's first peer-aged friend in Koriko, and that's where we leave them as credits roll. Its also fun to see a 'nerd' of some variety be as important to the movie as he is. The kid loves airplanes and other flying machines, has a club devoted to it, and actually succeeds in constructing and flying a pedal powered plane. Ursula is another fun character. Judging by her character design and attitude, she's meant to be a few years older than Kiki. Maybe 17 or so? She's instrumental in helping Kiki overcome doubt, by relating a story of her own self-failings and how she deals with them. I like her as a mentor character; providing guidance and assistance to Kiki, without just solving problems for her. Back in my Totoro review, I praised the ambiguity of the 'existence' of supernatural elements. Kiki is a bit more muddled in that regard. Obviously Witches exist, can fly, and can communicate with animals (at least while they are young). But beyond that, what sort of magic exists? Kiki's mother is a potion maker, but she is shown using what looks like modern chemistry equipment, not a bubbling cauldron. Is she imbuing her potions with magic talent? Or does she just have a good knowledge of chemistry? The witch Kiki meets as she sets out on her journey says that she's good at giving fortunes, but the brief encounter, plus the neon-heavy street that witch descends toward, gave be a very...Vegas-like impression; that she may just be doing what fortune tellers in our world do and telling clients what they want to hear. Flight is the only power that's shown to exist in the world that other, non-witch, people can see. Then there's the issue of speaking with Jiji. During Kiki's self-doubt crisis, she loses her ability to speak with her cat, and does not regain it at the end of the film even when she can fly again. The official explanation is that Kiki grew up, matured, and no longer needs to speak with her cat...but the film doesn't really do a good job of explaining this. There is no establishment at the beginning of the movie as to why Kiki and Jiji can speak to each other, it is not explained at the end why they can do so no longer. Not everything in a film needs to be explicitly spelled out...but this is one of those cases where something really needed to be said. Overall, I look at this movie from two angles. As a story of Kiki growing up, transitioning from childhood to adulthood, this is a resounding success. An excellent story of dealing with insecurity and working toward self-actualization. On the other hand, this isn't nearly as "fantasy romp" heavy as Totoro was. Not that it particularly needed to be, and I don't see that as a failing of the film, but the story is just not what the first few minutes and preconceived expectations would imply. I think that the perfect age to show Kiki's Delivery Service to kids would be when they're just slightly younger than Kiki is here. Use it as a primer for dealing with adolescence. Good stuff all around. Up Next: Stray Dog Released October 17th 1949, Directed by Akira Kurosawa jivjov fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 06:06
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jivjov posted:The design of the city of Koriko, from the streets to the aerial views, were just so well crafted. I just want to go spend a week or two exploring the town Kiki sets up her delivery service in. http://stock.irablock.com/-/galleries/europe/sweden/-/medias/4a0a9120-e3ed-11e0-b256-47864d91a75b-aerials-visby-gotland-sweden Miyazaki's fondness for European landscapes really begins to shine through in Kiki, his next movie is just a full-blown love letter to the Adriatic Sea (and old-timey airplanes, of course).
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Dec 13, 2015 13:32
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It's interesting how much of Miyazaki's work draws inspiration from European literature and landscapes. Illinois Smith already mentioned Kiki and Porco Rosso. Nausicaä owes a lot to the works of Moebius, Castle in the Sky to Jules Verne and Welsh mining towns, Howl's Moving Castle is based on a British book, and Castle of Cagliostro takes place in pseudo-Italy. I suppose he's in good company, given Walt Disney's fondness for European fairy tales.
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Dec 13, 2015 14:35
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Yeah; I've gotten a very distinct European vibe off of all the settings of Miyazaki stuff so far. It's like two steps more refined than the "vaguely not-Britain" that so much fantasy fiction takes place in. But it's interesting to see how distinct all the settings feel. It's a rather interesting blend of "look how foreign and new and different this is" with "this is all happening just over that hill, or just around that corner"
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Dec 13, 2015 16:00
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Kiki is based on a book, so I'd guess that a sizable portion of the intended audience would have some familiarity with the source. I think it says they have a 'psychic bond' that kind of implies telepathy and there's of course the suggestion of a familiar, but it could also be interpreted just as her having a specific intuition about the cat, the way a pet owner might. If I recall the book rightly, the cat never explicitly speaks, but she does talk to it and impute answers, as in the Japanese movie.
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Dec 13, 2015 22:40
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Well Jiji straight up talks back in the Japanese version I watched, complete with a line about "why are you just meowing?" When she loses the ability to talk to him.
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Dec 13, 2015 23:19
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Kangra posted:Kiki is based on a book, so I'd guess that a sizable portion of the intended audience would have some familiarity with the source. I think it says they have a 'psychic bond' that kind of implies telepathy and there's of course the suggestion of a familiar, but it could also be interpreted just as her having a specific intuition about the cat, the way a pet owner might. If I recall the book rightly, the cat never explicitly speaks, but she does talk to it and impute answers, as in the Japanese movie. I liked Kiki, but Princess Mononoke is probably my favorite outside of Totoro. They also had a killer VA cast for PM.
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Dec 14, 2015 00:35
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My thought came out mangled - what I intended to say is that their conversation is more like the Japanese film version than the Disney dub. (Although I think, vaguely, Jiji might be more cautious in the movie and possibly incorporated some of what's in the book as Kiki recalling what her mother said.) I was trying to point out that they did indeed alter the character when Phil Hartman voiced it.
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Dec 14, 2015 00:38
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Just as a heads up; I'm not dead. Hectic week between Star Wars marathon, pre-holiday rush at work, and my anniversary. Not 100% sure on when I'll be back to movie reviews, but it'll be sooner rather than later.
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Dec 20, 2015 05:04
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You are persistent like no one else I've ever seen here, save for that dude who got killed in Syria.
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Dec 20, 2015 20:57
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:You are persistent like no one else I've ever seen here, save for that dude who got killed in Syria. I'm not sure if this is a compliment or not
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Dec 20, 2015 21:06
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It is admirable.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:14
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It is admirable. Oh. Well thank you 
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Dec 20, 2015 21:56
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jivjov posted:Just as a heads up; I'm not dead. Hectic week between Star Wars marathon, pre-holiday rush at work, and my anniversary. Not 100% sure on when I'll be back to movie reviews, but it'll be sooner rather than later.
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Dec 24, 2015 12:21
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I'm not doing a full write up for this one since it doesn't fit my thread at all, but I watched Ex Machina over my holiday break and really enjoyed it.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:39
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I watched Dersu Uzala, it owned a lot and has got me interested in watching more Mosfilm/Soviet cinema. Anyone got recommendations?
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Dec 27, 2015 15:28
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tekz posted:I watched Dersu Uzala, it owned a lot and has got me interested in watching more Mosfilm/Soviet cinema. Anyone got recommendations? I've only seen a little bit of Russian cinema myself outside of Dersu Uzala (Battleship Potemkin, The Man With a Movie Camera, and Stalker. Watch these if you haven't seen them tekz, they're all amazing.), and would love recommendations as well, outside of more Tarkovsky stuff which I plan to check out more of anyways.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:39
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Could you specify what you're looking for a bit more? In my opinion some essential Soviet films are: By The Law Battleship Potemkin Man With a Movie Camera Earth I am Cuba Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors Mirror I consider all Paradhzanov, Eisenstein, and Tarkovsky essential (and in no particular order).
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Dec 28, 2015 01:15
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