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Now that gay and lesbian people can get married (upon re-reading I've realized this is a very US-centric OP), what's next? Well, a lot. This thread is for discussing lgbt rights, politics, etc. beyond the right to get married. For example, there's: Workplace Discrimination In most US states, you can be fired for being gay or transgender. In 31 states, you can be fired on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. . 21 percent of LGBT people have reported employment discrimination, that number rises to 47 percent when you look at transgender people. However, most people mistakenly believe it is already against the law. Numerous cities also have local protections in place, but conservatives at the state level are trying to fight these local successes. For example, Arkansas passed a bill, similar to one in Tennessee, that would "would prevent cities and counties from enacting or enforcing laws that ban discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity." If you're a public employee, things are a little better. 11 of 29 states without LGBT protections have executive orders or policies preventing discrimination. The president has issued an Executive Order requiring federal contractors to have non-discrimination policies in place that protect LGBT people. It's a good thing, but obviously it's not enough. We need to pass comprehensive federal legislation that bans lgbt discrimination. Hence the Equality Act. quote:The Equality Act, which was introduced by Senators Jeff Merkley, Tammy Baldwin, and Cory Booker, and Representatives David Cicilline and John Lewis, establishes explicit, permanent protections against discrimination based on an individual’s sexual orientation or gender identity in matters of employment, housing, access to public places, federal funding, credit, education and jury service. In addition, it would prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex in federal funding and access to public places. Here's John Oliver explaining it. Schools LGBT students face a 90% harassment rate vs. a 62% rate for straight students, and are 3 times more likely to report feeling unsafe at school. The US Dept. of Education has ruled that Title IX, which prevents discrimination or harassment based on sex, also applies to discrimination or harassment faced by transgender students. The DOJ is currently using Title IX to defend the rights of a transgender boy in Virginia. However, such discrimination is still rampant, and state-level efforts to legalize discrimination are currently underway. For example, in California, which currently allows transgender students to use resources (like bathrooms) consistent with their gender, a ballot initiative is in place that: "would bar people from using government-funded facilities that don’t relate to their sex as determined by birth, medical examination or court judgment acknowledging a gender change, according to the summary. Those who felt their rights were infringed upon could sue in civil court and would be entitled to at least $4,000 from a government or person found in violation. It also would allow businesses to ban transgender customers or employees from using their facilities." While a previous initiative failed, similar efforts might be more successful in other states. Health LGBT people face numerous health concerns. For example, they're 2.5 times more likely to have a mental health disorder. This article is a must-read for the broad strokes - know that gay and lesbian people are several times more likely to suffer from depression, anxiety disorders, and substance abuse. 25% of gay men and 20% of gay women report harassment. As usual in these things, the numbers go up if you look at transgender people. 19% of transgender people report being refused care by medical providers because they were transgender, 28% report harassment in medical offices. Suicide is another crucial issue. 41% of transgender people have attempted suicide (the national rate is 1.6%). LGB youth are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide than straight youth. I encourage everyone to check out The Trevor Project for more information. Other Issues Other issues include homelessness (40% of homeless youth are LGBT!), poverty, AIDS (Louisiana is terminating its medicaid provider contract with Planned Parenthood, which does HIV testing, AL, AR, and UT are following suit), and the justice system. For example, transgender people experience three times as much police violence, and almost half of transgender people who report hate crimes face discrimination from the police. With gay marriage organizations preparing to shut down, now is the critical time for people and organizations invested in lgbt rights to pivot and begin tackling other bigotries and injustices, so we can talk about that here. Sharkie fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 19:23
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Injustice at Every Turn A Report of the National Transgender Discrimination Survey posted:A staggering 41% of respondents reported attempting suicide compared to 1.6% of the general population, with rates rising for those who lost a job due to bias (55%), were harassed/bullied in school (51%), had low household income, or were the victim of physical assault (61%) or sexual assault (64%).
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Aug 24, 2015 23:52
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This is a pro-click. One of the more harrowing sections is about police and incarceration. quote:One-fifth (22%) of respondents who have interacted with police reported harassment by police due to bias, with substantially higher rates (29-38%) reported by respondents of color. Some Black Lives Matter organizers are addressing the violence and abuse that black trans people face tomorrow, with rallies in Houston, Dayton, Nashville, Chicago, Columbus, and D.C. Currently there are rallies set in five cities: Houston, Dayton, Nashville, Chicago, Columbus, and Washington D.C. http://fusion.net/story/187673/blacklivesmatter-organizers-to-rally-for-black-transgender-women/ Black transgender women also face a disproportionate amount of violence in general. This article goes into detail about the 20 known murders of transgender women this year. 17 were black or latina. quote:In 2013, the group found, there were at least 12 hate-motivated homicides of transgender women, and they were all people of color...
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Aug 25, 2015 00:27
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Sharkie posted:Health I always wondered if that had to do more with a genetic link between mental illnesses and LGBT people. I don't have a source, but my psychiatrist said there was a much higher rate of Bipolar amongst gay people. I have Bipolar and tried to commit suicide. But I literally faced nothing a normal person wouldn't have growing up. It's also my opinion that the gay struggle is over. Within a year or two Australia will have marriage equality and any lingering discrimination will disappear in a generation or two. Transgender individuals will have some trouble for awhile longer, but unlike racism we LGBT people randomly appear within families.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:47
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Lord Windy posted:I always wondered if that had to do more with a genetic link between mental illnesses and LGBT people. I don't have a source, but my psychiatrist said there was a much higher rate of Bipolar amongst gay people. I have Bipolar and tried to commit suicide. But I literally faced nothing a normal person wouldn't have growing up.  That might be the whitest thing anyone has ever posted on something awful.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:52
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I am gay though.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:53
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Lord Windy posted:I am gay though. Being gay doesn't stop you from being dumb.
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Aug 25, 2015 00:57
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Lord Windy posted:I always wondered if that had to do more with a genetic link between mental illnesses and LGBT people. I don't have a source, but my psychiatrist said there was a much higher rate of Bipolar amongst gay people. I have Bipolar and tried to commit suicide. But I literally faced nothing a normal person wouldn't have growing up. I haven't seen any evidence regarding a genetic link between a wide range of mental illnesses and lgbt people. However, the Minority Stress model has been used for some time now and has a lot of support. Prejudice, Social Stress, and Mental Health in Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Populations: Conceptual Issues and Research Evidence seems to be a pretty good overview of the literature. See also http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7738327 Also I'm not clear about what your last sentence means, sorry. Lord Windy posted:It's also my opinion that the gay struggle is over. Within a year or two Australia will have marriage equality and any lingering discrimination will disappear in a generation or two. Transgender individuals will have some trouble for awhile longer, but unlike racism we LGBT people randomly appear within families. I think "will be gone in two generations" (or even "awhile longer") is hardly "over." Given the kinds of legal and cultural discrimination gay people face, I think calling the struggle for equality over is incredibly overly optimistic, at best.
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Aug 25, 2015 01:01
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Housing discrimination is also still a major problem in the USA. In 29 states, it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people in housing, and in a further 10, it is still legal to discriminate against transgender people. This is an important part of keeping openly LGBT people sectioned off into "gayborhoods" and the like.
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Aug 25, 2015 01:09
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Lord Windy posted:It's also my opinion that the gay struggle is over. Within a year or two Australia will have marriage equality and any lingering discrimination will disappear in a generation or two. Transgender individuals will have some trouble for awhile longer, but unlike racism we LGBT people randomly appear within families. LGBT rights in Africa (with the exception of South Africa) are generally terrible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Africa quote:In Mauritania, Sudan and northern Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. In Uganda, Tanzania, and Sierra Leone, offenders can receive life imprisonment for homosexual acts. In addition to criminalizing homosexuality, Nigeria has enacted legislation that would make it illegal for straight family members, allies and friends of the LGBT to be supportive. According to Nigerian law, a straight ally “who administers, witnesses, abets or aids” any form of gender non-conforming and homosexual activity could receive a 10-year jail sentence. The Middle East is similarly bad; part of the dark side of the Ashley Madison leak was that gay people living in gay-unfriendly countries were essentially outed. A gay dude living in Saudi Arabia who used the site for gay hookups has had to literally flee the country and seek asylum in the US since he faced execution otherwiose, and there were/are people in the Qatar and the UAE who are likely facing similar threats. And of course you can't forget about ISIL, which has quite literally thrown gay people off of buildings in public executions on multiple occasions. One dude survived the fall, but was then beaten to death by the people below.  The rapid progress of gay rights in the US has been astounding, but the US is not the only country in the world. fade5 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 01:13
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Effectronica posted:Housing discrimination is also still a major problem in the USA. In 29 states, it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people in housing, and in a further 10, it is still legal to discriminate against transgender people. This is an important part of keeping openly LGBT people sectioned off into "gayborhoods" and the like. The Equality Act would, among other things, amend the Fair Housing Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity. Of course, zero Republicans are supporting it; it's still vitally important for municipalities and states to address this where they can. Like you said, right now in most states you can legally get married, announce it, and the next day lose your job because of it.
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Aug 25, 2015 02:48
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Effectronica posted:Housing discrimination is also still a major problem in the USA. In 29 states, it is legal to discriminate against LGBT people in housing, and in a further 10, it is still legal to discriminate against transgender people. This is an important part of keeping openly LGBT people sectioned off into "gayborhoods" and the like. I thought gay concentrated neighborhoods in 2015 exist more because of shared culture than from direct housing discrimination or economic barriers.
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Aug 25, 2015 03:20
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Lord Windy posted:I always wondered if that had to do more with a genetic link between mental illnesses and LGBT people. I don't have a source, but my psychiatrist said there was a much higher rate of Bipolar amongst gay people. I have Bipolar and tried to commit suicide. But I literally faced nothing a normal person wouldn't have growing up. I live in one of the most liberal and LGBT supporting cities in the US. I have never personally faced any problems because I'm a large, muscular former college football player and your average homophobic dude isn't going to prey on someone like that. I have friends who are smaller and more feminine who have been insulted, assulted, had stuff thrown at them, been disowned by their parents, lost jobs, etc. Again this is in one of the most progressive and LGBT friendly parts of the country. I think you are just lacking in perspective. And this is just gay men, trans individuals on average have it much worse. It seems like we're at a point where being gay is more accepted than violating gender norms for which there is still a lot of pressure to conform, I think in many places it's probably easier to be a "manly" gay dude than be a straight dude who "looks gay." MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 03:25
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Just to play devil's advocate, but assuming that Lord Windy is talking from an Australian perspective (since Australia was mentioned), I'd have to more or less agree. Of course everything isn't perfect, but I think this is one of those things that's very regional specific. Anecdotal, but out of all my gay/lesbian friends who were out during high school, none of them were ever bullied for being gay, and my school wasn't even slightly "we're all one big loving community". Again, I'm not saying everything is perfect forever, and of course bullying and discrimination happens, but I'd have to agree that within a couple of generations, I can't really imagine any major issues still being around. I mean yeah it sucks that not everything will be solved within my lifetime, but I think that significant progress has already been made and it's pretty cool that I've been around to see it, and the LGBTI community isn't the only one with issues to deal with. Keep in mind again though that a) bullying culture in schools from what I've gathered is very different in Australia and in the US, b) we don't have nearly as many religious nutcases here turning anything to do with homosexuals into a huge controversial issue and c) we have actual discrimination laws here which are definitely pretty great.
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Aug 25, 2015 16:34
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Whitlam posted:, b) we don't have nearly as many religious nutcases here turning anything to do with homosexuals into a huge controversial issue Just creationism apparently.
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Aug 25, 2015 16:37
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I'm reposting this because it's a issue that people don't realize is a actual issue. Basically the exclusion of Transgender individuals from the ADA. This would immediately offer persons who are Transgender workplace protection as well as allow them access to educational benefits. Hollismason posted:I thought this would be the place to post it as I haven't seen it discussed anywhere else , but I've been trying to follow this for the last couple of months. This is a good resource for reading about it http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1115&context=yhrdlj Hollismason fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 25, 2015 16:42
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Bip Roberts posted:I thought gay concentrated neighborhoods in 2015 exist more because of shared culture than from direct housing discrimination or economic barriers. It's more that gay neighborhoods exist as safe places to contrast with the possibility of danger from the rest of the world. The issue isn't so much direct housing discrimination as it is the steering and expectations that keep gay people concentrated or closeted/covering- even if it's not likely that you'll be forced out of your apartment or denied a mortgage, the possibility discourages people. So guaranteeing the right to have housing anywhere in the country would help break down those barriers by removing some of these expectations.
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Aug 25, 2015 22:49
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Gay neighborhoods are pretty much the first target for gentrification. Look at the Marigny in New Orleans and Boystown in Chicago.
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Aug 25, 2015 23:30
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Hollismason posted:I'm reposting this because it's a issue that people don't realize is a actual issue. Basically the exclusion of Transgender individuals from the ADA. This would immediately offer persons who are Transgender workplace protection as well as allow them access to educational benefits. Yeah, this is a big deal. If I understand the case correctly, though, the DOJ wants to see it resolved through Title VII, so that's why they haven't weighed in, but...the ADA charge is still going to go through, congruent with the Title VII charge, correct? So we're going to see a decision on the ADA charge regardless? At this point it's probably useful to make it clear that under the DSM-V, gender dysphoria is not a sexual dysfunction disorder. Also, being transgender is, strictly speaking, not a mental illness under the DSM-V. Rather, the distress caused by it is a mental state that is in the DSM-V. They've pretty much come out and said that they included it because it allows transgender people to obtain treatment, insurance (though that's not always available), and also legal protections, such as this case demonstrates. http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Gender%20Dysphoria%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf quote:The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition (gender nonconformity). quote:Advocate: There's no rational reason to exclude gd from the ADA.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:19
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Ban straights like in The Forever War.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:45
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Sharkie posted:There's no rational reason to exclude gd from the ADA. Sure there is. It politicizes the ADA, something that (to the relief of most disabled folks) is actually not a partisan issue in the US. It's rough enough being blind, I don't need what few protections I get being turned into a wedge issue for either party! Seriously: You want to protect transgenders, go ahead. But don't touch the ADA! Leave us out of your fight!
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Aug 26, 2015 03:04
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Spacewolf posted:Sure there is. It politicizes the ADA, something that (to the relief of most disabled folks) is actually not a partisan issue in the US. It does not "politicize the ADA". Simply put it already is politicized, but among other things the fact that the AARP is consistently in favor of it (because old people are the likeliest group to have disabilities) means that it's political poison to rail against. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 03:10
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Spacewolf posted:Sure there is. It politicizes the ADA, something that (to the relief of most disabled folks) is actually not a partisan issue in the US. It's rough enough being blind, I don't need what few protections I get being turned into a wedge issue for either party! It doesn't politicize it though, any more that adding sexual orientation/gender identity to already existing civil rights laws politicized them. Do you or do you not believe gd causes difficulty for people who have it, through no control of their own, and those people require special considerations at times?
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Aug 26, 2015 03:15
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Spacewolf posted:Sure there is. It politicizes the ADA, something that (to the relief of most disabled folks) is actually not a partisan issue in the US. It's rough enough being blind, I don't need what few protections I get being turned into a wedge issue for either party! The Americans with Disabilities Act posted:The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual The fact that transgender people are not protected by the ADA means that it is already politicized- an obvious disability is excluded, because it would be politically uncomfortable to do the right thing. There are, in fact, multiple disabilities that are specifically excluded for political reasons, though none of them so obviously vile in nature as the exclusion of gender dysphoria.
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Aug 26, 2015 03:22
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Spacewolf posted:Sure there is. It politicizes the ADA, something that (to the relief of most disabled folks) is actually not a partisan issue in the US. It's rough enough being blind, I don't need what few protections I get being turned into a wedge issue for either party! I'm not sure I understand how removing gender dysphoria from the list of conditions that are specifically barred from the ADA would imperil the protections that Americans with disabilities have. And just so you know the term is "transgender people," not "transgenders." Also I'll reiterate the other posters that have pointed out the ADA is already politicized.
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Aug 26, 2015 03:23
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OK, I fairly got attacked by a bunch of people, so I'm going to lay out my position a bit more. The way I see it, disability protections are something that are only tolerated by people so far as they are limited. You hear enough grumbling about the ADA as it is, particularly how vague the definition of disability is. Thusfar, though, the ADA has been pretty bipartisan in its support, even for the 2010 amendments. I want the ADA to have teeth. I want the ADA to be effective. If you add transgender people to the defined disabled class, you do two things: 1. You guarantee that the ADA loses support from social conservatives. 2. You make it easier to attack the entire ADA and everything that flows from that. Why? Well, look at the APA's justification for adding gender dysphoria to the DSM-V. It was pretty explicitly political, in that it was added as a diagnosis explicitly to open the door to insurance and legal protections. How much easier would it then be to attack other disabilities as being political, or disability protections as "not really being needed"? Maybe that's an acceptable tradeoff to some people. To me, as someone who fights every day to live as someone who is disabled in the US? I'm sorry, that's not an acceptable tradeoff. I want transgender folks to be happy. But don't do it at my expense. That may sound paranoid? So be it. I have to be paranoid. I don't get a choice. I've been disabled from birth. My disabilities will never be fixable by advancing technology - neuroplasticity has its limits. Tinker with the structures with which I survive, and you might bring them crashing down. And I cannot afford that. Summary of the above for the "TL;DR" crowd: For God's sake. This isn't about transgender folks being good or bad. This is about "Don't mix it with the disabled rights issue". You want to give transgender folks equivalent protections? Go ahead. Do it as separate legislation, though, not something that touches the ADA.
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Aug 26, 2015 04:56
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So basically gently caress you got mine.
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Aug 26, 2015 04:58
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I've heard the whole "transgendered people will just make us bigger targets" argument from feminists and gay rights advocates a hundred times before. I've gotta say, hearing it from a disabled person is a new one.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:08
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At some level? Maybe. I hate to think like that, but...You know what? Maybe. At some level, I don't care about transgender people's issues, I got plenty of my own poo poo to deal with. And once you're telling me to risk giving up something that makes it possible for me to have a life that even approaches decent...Then I start to go "gently caress you", yes. You will not get to screw me over, or even risk that happening, without a fight. Because my position is precarious on a good day.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:09
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Spacewolf posted:At some level? So you're taking the bold stance of declaring opposition to the oppressive transgender apparatchiks because you are too focused on self pity to have compassion for your fellow human beings. Good poo poo my man
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Aug 26, 2015 05:21
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Please, the ADA's been hyperpoliticized ever since the first self-righteous small business owner decided it'd cost too much to install a wheelchair ramp without actually running the numbers to make sure he was right.Jagchosis posted:So you're taking the bold stance of declaring opposition to the oppressive transgender apparatchiks because you are too focused on self pity to have compassion for your fellow human beings. Good poo poo my man You'd think having to deal with that poo poo would make him more sympathetic, but unfortunately having to deal with seizures (or whatever poo poo it is Spacewolf has to deal with, just using seizures as a randomly chosen example) doesn't make you a decent human being. Technogeek fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 05:24
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I've heard the whole "transgendered people will just make us bigger targets" argument from feminists and gay rights advocates a hundred times before. I've gotta say, hearing it from a disabled person is a new one. But is it so surprising? Answer me this, all of you: What's the rate of participation in the labor force for civilian Americans over 16? 30% of Americans without a disability between 16 and 64 are classified as "Not in the Labor Force" What's the rate of participation in the labor force for people of the same age group with disabilities? 15% are unemployed as of February 2009 (Yes, I know it's old, the statistics are only recently being collected), 79% are "Not in the labor force" and not counted as unemployed because they aren't looking for work. Bluntly put...It's not remotely a fair fight. Most people with gender dysphoria have jobs. Can get jobs. Maybe not the jobs they'd like. Maybe not the jobs they can qualify for. But jobs. (My source for the employment data is here) Meanwhile, they're risking the lives of folks who often enough can't get jobs, or can't work period. Which is what you would do by loading the ADA with this. You would risk the lives and livelihoods of people with no other option. Because every time you add something, you make the definition of disability (and from that, the entire ADA) that much easier to attack.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:26
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Real nice to see one's horrible prejudices stated willfully and openly like that for once, I guess. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 05:29
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Now we are playing oppression Olympics, you are all over the place.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:31
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So what's the next "Grand Cause" for people to focus on after marriage equality. There are still a ton of LGBT issues (especially T issues), but I feel like a lot of them, especially the ones noted in the OP, are too complicated or don't have enough mass appeal to become the new marriage equality campaign. Maybe bundling together employment and housing protections would have the best shot at picking up steam, but if we couldn't pass the ERA for women, what are the odds of passing one focusing on LBGT issues?
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Aug 26, 2015 05:32
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Spacewolf posted:But is it so surprising? And how does your stance square with the massively increased rates of suicide, depression, homelessness, etc. among people with gender dysphoria that you want to exclude? Keep in mind that if gender dysphoria is included under the ADA, your hypothetical is something that might happen. These things are happening to trans people and people experiencing gender dysphoria right now. GhostofJohnMuir posted:So what's the next "Grand Cause" for people to focus on after marriage equality. There are still a ton of LGBT issues (especially T issues), but I feel like a lot of them, especially the ones noted in the OP, are too complicated or don't have enough mass appeal to become the new marriage equality campaign. Maybe bundling together employment and housing protections would have the best shot at picking up steam, but if we couldn't pass the ERA for women, what are the odds of passing one focusing on LBGT issues? Employment and housing are probably the "easiest" remaining ones (especially employment). I'm not sure if employment could be forced by the Supreme Court but it's definitely something I can see passing in a large amount of blue (and maybe even some purple) states.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:33
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Um, why would gender dysphoria be classified as a disability? As someone without much knowledge of American laws, it seems to me that it would fall under the same category as race and sexuality, and so should presumably be added to whatever protections cover those. To me it seems like adding it to the ADA would be like adding minority races to the ADA.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:33
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:So what's the next "Grand Cause" for people to focus on after marriage equality. Dismantling the ADA
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Aug 26, 2015 05:33
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Jagchosis posted:Dismantling the ADA Well Penn and Teller would be on board.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:35
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Spacewolf posted:At some level? Letting people suffering from gender dysphoria continue to languish and commit suicide en masse isn't going to save any program from a libertarian with a carving knife. They're only going to do what's politically viable, and even with transgendered people being helped by the ADA, no one has the political capital to say "Yeah, gently caress people with disabilities, why are we helping them?" And you know what, if they could say that and get away with it, they could whether we helped out transgendered people or not. So from one physically disabled person to another, gently caress you.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:35
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