|
Because you're afraid that if you get inside a villain's head you'll start thinking like them for real and won't be able to turn back?
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 17:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:45 |
|
|
dude all the loving time! lol haha, you read me like a book. (word humor)
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 17:56
|
|
|
That's why I don't write sane characters.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
no applewhite, because I'm not an idiot
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
No? No, I am not worried that if I come to understand an evil person I will become evil, like it's a zombie virus or something. I think you'll be okay.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
no but i once had an idea about a story about an author that wrote some trite lovecraftian garbage who later ended up murdering his wife because the fiction unearthed some eldritch horrors in his brain, maaaaaaan
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 21:15
|
|
|
epoch. posted:no but i once had an idea about a story about an author that wrote some trite lovecraftian garbage who later ended up murdering his wife because the fiction unearthed some eldritch horrors in his brain, maaaaaaan I think I saw a Johnny Depp movie like that once
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
You did. Secret Window.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 21:21
|
|
|
quote:There have been 10353 posts made by Applewhite, an average of 27.23 posts per day, since registering on Aug 16, 2014.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
Troposphere posted:no applewhite, because I'm not an idiot SurreptitiousMuffin posted:If you want to be less dumb stop posting in GBS. Wow what the hell? Geez. Who pissed in you guys's cereal? I only asked because I take a sort of "method" approach to writing where I really try to get into the head of my characters and see things from their perspective when I'm writing their actions/dialogue and I get really uncomfortable writing really dark stuff because I normally prefer not to dwell on that kind of think and I thought "haha, imagine if you could get stuck that way I wonder if anyone else has thought the same thing." I wasn't expecting the "GBS Treatment" down here in Creative Convention, a place for authors and artists to support one another.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 14:27
|
|
|
When I write villains, I write them with an eye towards a materialist conception of history. That is: I work to understand or create (in the case of speculative fiction) the material conditions that lead them to their actions. Someone is a crime lord because they grew up in poverty and other avenues of accruing social status were shut to them; someone is an ultranationalist because of the fragile state of the economy and the need to find a tangible subject to channel their anger at; etc. Understanding them in terms of material conditions allows you to understand the ideological justifications they give in terms of what underlies that ideology, rather than in terms of the ideology itself, which is where the spider's web lies. It's easy to read the manifesto of dudes like Kaczynski and finding yourself nodding your head along, because Kaczynski addresses what something "appears to be" (the ruination of nature and the isolation of human society by technology, etc.) - what we see it as - rather than the actual cause, or "essence," of what is going on (the capitalist mode of production). Understanding the actual "essence" of something allows you to cautiously avoid being sucked into the rhetoric of appearances.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 15:13
|
|
|
Vermain posted:When I write villains, I write them with an eye towards a materialist conception of history. That is: I work to understand or create (in the case of speculative fiction) the material conditions that lead them to their actions. Someone is a crime lord because they grew up in poverty and other avenues of accruing social status were shut to them; someone is an ultranationalist because of the fragile state of the economy and the need to find a tangible subject to channel their anger at; etc. Understanding them in terms of material conditions allows you to understand the ideological justifications they give in terms of what underlies that ideology, rather than in terms of the ideology itself, which is where the spider's web lies. It's easy to read the manifesto of dudes like Kaczynski and finding yourself nodding your head along, because Kaczynski addresses what something "appears to be" (the ruination of nature and the isolation of human society by technology, etc.) - what we see it as - rather than the actual cause, or "essence," of what is going on (the capitalist mode of production). Understanding the actual "essence" of something allows you to cautiously avoid being sucked into the rhetoric of appearances. I like that. It sounds very similar to what I do, which is, rather than write "villains," I write the main characters as mutually antagonistic, but "moral" from their own perspectives (or at least capable of rationalizing their bad behavior). I try to work some of this rationalization in to the protagonist as well, having him behave in ways that might be objectionable but in the big picture he's on the side of "good." The issue I was talking about in the OP referred specifically to characters with a sociopathic or ultra-nihilistic worldview that cannot necessarily be accounted for in rational terms.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 15:29
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:I like that. It sounds very similar to what I do, which is, rather than write "villains," I write the main characters as mutually antagonistic, but "moral" from their own perspectives (or at least capable of rationalizing their bad behavior). I try to work some of this rationalization in to the protagonist as well, having him behave in ways that might be objectionable but in the big picture he's on the side of "good." I think the strongest antagonists are those which can be correctly described as "the heroes of their own stories." Villains who are evil just for the sake of it or maniacally insane tend to end up being one-dimensional plot devices and much less satisfying to me both as a reader and author. So I avoid writing them for those reasons, though not because i'm worried about becoming psychotic myself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:Wow what the hell? Geez. Who pissed in you guys's cereal? we all know who you are and it was a dumb question welcome to creative convention
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 16:27
|
|
|
Troposphere posted:we all know who you are What does that even mean?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 16:37
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:Because you're afraid that if you get inside a villain's head you'll start thinking like them for real and won't be able to turn back? No.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 16:44
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:What does that even mean? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
On the topic of the OP, do you feel like your writing changes who you are? Like, the creative process that goes into shaping a story also shapes you in turn? If so, what would you describe as your most transformative story?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:14
|
|
|
well I pretty much exclusively write female protagonists and i've turned out to be a trans so u might be onto something OP
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
No; no; N/A.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
Meis posted:well I pretty much exclusively write female protagonists and i've turned out to be a trans so u might be onto something OP Sup, Meis! We haven't chatted in a while! I hope you're well. Do you find that you prefer to write female protagonists because they are easier for you to sympathize with or because you feel that females are generally more emotive? Or some other reason?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
serious post: writing / RPing as girls did help me come to terms with my gender identity, but me doing so was a symptom, not the cause. I usually play as elves in games but i dont think im an elf irl. also, like, literally millions of people have written about evil or insane characters without turning evil irl. Or even more realistic things like writing a gay protagonist not turning the author gay or whatever. You can see why people think your question is stupid, surely? it's a stupid question. sorry.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:50
|
|
|
Pick posted:No; no; N/A. I'm surprised you think that way. I would have thought most authors would consider themselves to be themselves changed by the creative act of writing. Why do you feel like your work does not affect you?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:Sup, Meis! We haven't chatted in a while! I hope you're well. oh hey didn't see this. Back when I was still coming to terms with things, writing girl characters allowed me to express myself in ways I couldn't in my regular life, but that's just me. Without getting too personal, the reasoning was basically like- in reality i was forced to assume a male role against my will, and I'd be damned if I'd do that in fantasy situations. Nowdays I write female characters because I'm a great honking misandrist. ANYWAYS point I'm trying to make is- the creative act of writing was not the CAUSE of changes in my personality, however it was a reflection of changes that were already happening. So the answer to the OP question is "no". edit: I'd like to add that the idea of female characters being more "emotive" than males is bullshit. Look up the phrase 'toxic masculinity' Meis fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
Meis posted:serious post: writing / RPing as girls did help me come to terms with my gender identity, but me doing so was a symptom, not the cause. I usually play as elves in games but i dont think im an elf irl. I don't know if it's fair to dismiss my question out of hand. Obviously I don't mean that the first time a person writes an evil character the evil thoughts will take over their brain or possess them or something, but thinking about and dwelling on dark things affects you. If a person spends years writing evil characters doing evil deeds, I find it difficult to believe it would not shape their outlook somewhat. It's not unheard of for an author to spiral down into depression or obsessive behavior as time goes on. I think the subject of an author's work creates a feedback loop that can reinforce certain thoughts or attitudes which may be harmful in the long run.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
i think youre getting cause and effect mixed up. I said it like twice already. To use ur example, if someone spirals into depression and is writing evil characters a lot, they're probably writing that way BECAUSE of how they feel. Look at someone like Jhonen Vasquez and his work, for example.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
Meis posted:edit: I'd like to add that the idea of female characters being more "emotive" than males is bullshit. Look up the phrase 'toxic masculinity' From a sociological standpoint, men in western cultures are taught to hide their emotions, whereas women are usually not. Consciously or unconsciously, most writers from a western background will probably make their male characters less emotive than their female characters. Therefore a female character would probably offer the writer more freedom to express emotion. I make no judgments on whether this is right or wrong but it's certainly not unrealistic.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
Meis posted:i think youre getting cause and effect mixed up. I said it like twice already. To use ur example, if someone spirals into depression and is writing evil characters a lot, they're probably writing that way BECAUSE of how they feel. I think mood is a little easier to reinforce through behavior patterns than something like, say, sexual orientation, which is one of the examples you gave.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:I think mood is a little easier to reinforce through behavior patterns than something like, say, sexual orientation, which is one of the examples you gave. in the post you're quoting i'm literally only talking about mood.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:22
|
|
|
Meis posted:in the post you're quoting i'm literally only talking about mood. Well then I disagree. I think the creative work we do does affect our mood even as it is also a product of it. You might start out making a particular work to express a particular emotion, but as the work gives you catharsis, your attitude will be changed. This in turn affects your next work and so on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
so what kind of catharsis did space tits and rear end give you how was your life changed by drawing weird fetish "humor"
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
I drew a man running and then I felt tired and sweaty so I took a two-hour long shower, after which my fingers were all prune-y so I couldn't hold anything without my fingertips feeling funny, and I believe this is a clear example of a drawing affecting the physical world that makes absolute sense. You know, from a psychological point of view. Incidentally, maybe people wouldn't think you're posting just for the sake of it if you made a habit of editing your older posts to respond to posts you missed, instead of double and triple posting like a bandit. Hope that helps!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:I'm surprised you think that way. I would have thought most authors would consider themselves to be themselves changed by the creative act of writing. Why do you feel like your work does not affect you? Sometimes a gay Rebulican werewolf is just a gay Republican werewolf.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Troposphere posted:so what kind of catharsis did space tits and rear end give you I was happy to finally bring life to a character design that had been rattling around in my head for a while, and I think it found satisfactory expression. I was able to workshop some sci fi ideas as well. "Space Tits" was more an essay in the craft of running a CYOA than what I would describe as a "serious" work. I think I also learned a lot about the kind of emotions the eroticized female form can evoke in a broad audience (as opposed to the narrow one that usually seeks out such content). I think if I were doing the story over again, I would have made the artistic style a lot more abstract. While the "cheesecake" art was certainly entertaining in its own way, I think it was a distraction from the central themes I was trying to express. It definitely affected my creative life a lot and I think it has improved my consciousness quite a bit when it comes to producing more generalized content and audience selection. What about you? I'm interested in hearing how my work has changed your life.Space Tits seems to have had a great effect on you if it provokes such an emotional reaction after all this time. ElTipejoLoco posted:I drew a man running and then I felt tired and sweaty so I took a two-hour long shower, after which my fingers were all prune-y so I couldn't hold anything without my fingertips feeling funny, and I believe this is a clear example of a drawing affecting the physical world that makes absolute sense. You know, from a psychological point of view. Thanks for the tip. I'm sorry if I do things differently. I know CC has evolved a slightly different posting culture than GBS.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:08
|
|
|
Applewhite posted:I was happy to finally bring life to a character design that had been rattling around in my head for a while, and I think it found satisfactory expression. I was able to workshop some sci fi ideas as well. "Space Tits" was more an essay in the craft of running a CYOA than what I would describe as a "serious" work. I think I also learned a lot about the kind of emotions the eroticized female form can evoke in a broad audience (as opposed to the narrow one that usually seeks out such content).  
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Well done goonsir. Yes. "Fap" indeed. "Fap" indeed. E: But seriously, you asked the question. Applewhite fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:17
|
|
|
mods please change my name to the kind of emotions the eroticized female form can evoke in a broad audience
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:26
|
|
|
Troposphere posted:mods please change my name to the kind of emotions the eroticized female form can evoke in a broad audience What answer did you want to hear?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 10:45 |
|
|
Applewhite posted:What answer did you want to hear? that's exactly the answer I was expecting from you essentially acting like your fetish art isn't just j/o material but some boundary pushing social experiment. that kind of attitude is very common around these parts and I'm getting pretty fatigued by it tbh
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2015 20:32
|
|