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Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

makes u think

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opposite day
Nov 13, 2010

WorldsStongestNerd
Apr 28, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
There are certain things that are integral to western culture and western dominance. Democracy, individual rights, including the rights of women. Europe is letting in people who, on average, don't believe that all men and women are equal, and who think that god, not the government is the highest authority. It amazes me that just as the western world has finally broken the stranglehold of Christian fundamentalism on society (certain parts of the USA excluded) Europe decides to willing import thousands of devout Muslims. I could understand spending millions and using military force to create and maintain a safe camp in Syria, but this idea of taking a million people of different language and culture, and settling them in your population is just bizarre. Migrants self select. You get people who are tired of thier poo poo culture who might be interested in adopting yours. These refugees don't want to assimilate, they want to escape. I can't blame them, but Germany is not obligated to do a thing for Syria. If citizens or private groups want to help then fine, but the government of a people is only obligated to the people that elected it, no one else.

fuccboi
Jan 5, 2004

by zen death robot
The excess humans should be disposed of like expired inventory; they have no use. In fact, their presence is deleterious.

MothraAttack
Apr 28, 2008

So this explains the relative success of Vietnamese and Iraqi resettlement in the U.S., right?

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

WorldsStrongestNerd posted:

There are certain things that are integral to western culture and western dominance. Democracy, individual rights, including the rights of women. Europe is letting in people who, on average, don't believe that all men and women are equal, and who think that god, not the government is the highest authority. It amazes me that just as the western world has finally broken the stranglehold of Christian fundamentalism on society (certain parts of the USA excluded) Europe decides to willing import thousands of devout Muslims. I could understand spending millions and using military force to create and maintain a safe camp in Syria, but this idea of taking a million people of different language and culture, and settling them in your population is just bizarre. Migrants self select. You get people who are tired of thier poo poo culture who might be interested in adopting yours. These refugees don't want to assimilate, they want to escape. I can't blame them, but Germany is not obligated to do a thing for Syria. If citizens or private groups want to help then fine, but the government of a people is only obligated to the people that elected it, no one else.

Your point would make sense if the superpower of the world wasn't built on taking in the people other nations kicked out when they thought the same way you do. There's a reason why the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says what it says when greeting the people too different to be accepted by their narrow minded countries of origin or Europe.

Adar
Jul 27, 2001

Al-Saqr posted:

Your point would make sense if the superpower of the world wasn't built on taking in the people other nations kicked out when they thought the same way you do. There's a reason why the inscription on the Statue of Liberty says what it says when greeting the people too different to be accepted by their narrow minded countries of origin or Europe.

If a single country in Europe were a tenth as good at assimilating people as the US is, none of this would be happening, but as it stands they're divided between the governments that mean well but have no idea how to do that and the ones that don't want to try in the first place.

But seriously, Angela loving Merkel is the hero of the hour. The woman who wants to austericize Greece to death is one of two leaders in all of Europe who's courageous enough to take in a minority population while the Hungarians build a border fence and Cameron gets to play the hero by "giving in" and taking 10 or 20 thousand?

I could not be more disgusted with the EU right now.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Jack B Nimble posted:

All of them...in the world? Bound for Europe? Do you have a source, I'd like to know more.

Edit: sorry now I see how ' their route' can mean that route from that previously mentioned wreck. I'd still like a source on the percentage though, that's grim.

Sorry, that was poorly worded.

From the International Organization for Migration:

http://www.iom.int/files/live/sites/iom/files/pbn/docs/Fatal-Journeys-Tracking-Lives-Lost-during-Migration-2014.pdf

quote:

In 2014, up to 3,072 migrants are believed to have died in the Mediterranean, compared with an estimate of 700 in 2013. Globally, IOM estimates that at least 4,077 migrants died in 2014, and at least 40,000 since the year 2000.

quote:

Although methods of counting vary, over the last 20 years Europe appears to have the highest figures for reported deaths. Since the year 2000, over 22,000 migrants have lost heir lives trying to reach Europe. Between 1996 and 2013, at least 1,790 migrants died while attempting to cross the Sahara. Since 1998, more than 6,000 migrants have dies trying to cross the United States - Mexico border, according to the United States Border Patrol. In Australia, the Border Crossing Observatory of Monash University suggests that nearly 1,500 migrants died on their journey to Australia between 2000 and 2014.

So Europe is responsible for about half of global migrant deaths in the last 15 years, and about three fourths of global migrant deaths last year. It's shameful.

Torrannor fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Sep 4, 2015

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.

I think taking asylum seekers from camps close to conflict areas is the right thing to try and dissuade people to risk the med and allow for family's to come over together whereas now the majority of those crossing are working aged men. Also I hear so many stories of people paying thousands of euros to hide in a truck. Surely nowadays a grand gets you a plane ticket and a nice enough business outfit to get to your destination in one go and claim there?

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


It's pretty surreal as an American to see educated, nominally liberal first worlders basically argue for white supremacist immigration policy

One of the cool things about liberalism as an ideology is that it can tolerate individuals who don't agree with each other, on things like religion, social values, etc. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that the people bitching about the drat Muslims not sharing our values don't actually believe in liberalism

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Sep 4, 2015

Honj Steak
May 31, 2013

Hi there.

icantfindaname posted:

It's pretty surreal as an American to see educated, nominally liberal first worlders basically argue for white supremacist immigration policy

One of the cool things about liberalism as an ideology is that it can tolerate individuals who don't agree with each other, on things like religion, social values, etc. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that the people bitching about the drat Muslims not sharing our values don't actually believe in liberalism

Actually some of the politicians in Europe aren't even nominally liberal. Orban for instance openly said that he wants Hungary to be an "illiberal state based on national foundations" as he thinks liberalism has failed.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Who the gently caress would want to go to Saudi Arabia? Or the UAE? Or Qatar?

Seriously, most of these people are fleeing the sort of people in those countries.

Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

CommieGIR posted:

Who the gently caress would want to go to Saudi Arabia? Or the UAE? Or Qatar?

Seriously, most of these people are fleeing the sort of people in those countries.

well see i know your house is on fire but your next door neighbors are just fine right this second i don't know why you think you need to move your whole fam to a nice hotel in a nicer part of town

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Ernie Muppari posted:

well see i know your house is on fire but your next door neighbors are just fine right this second i don't know why you think you need to move your whole fam to a nice hotel in a nicer part of town

They are likely the guys who paid the guys to light your house on fire. And they hate you!

Freezer
Apr 20, 2001

The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

CommieGIR posted:

Who the gently caress would want to go to Saudi Arabia? Or the UAE? Or Qatar?

Seriously, most of these people are fleeing the sort of people in those countries.

Why is the liberal democracy of Israel, right next door, not taking in refugees? Because they're probably drafting settlement plans for their former land that's why.

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011

WorldsStrongestNerd posted:

There are certain things that are integral to western culture and western dominance. Democracy, individual rights, including the rights of women. Europe is letting in people who, on average, don't believe that all men and women are equal, and who think that god, not the government is the highest authority. It amazes me that just as the western world has finally broken the stranglehold of Christian fundamentalism on society (certain parts of the USA excluded) Europe decides to willing import thousands of devout Muslims. I could understand spending millions and using military force to create and maintain a safe camp in Syria, but this idea of taking a million people of different language and culture, and settling them in your population is just bizarre. Migrants self select. You get people who are tired of thier poo poo culture who might be interested in adopting yours. These refugees don't want to assimilate, they want to escape. I can't blame them, but Germany is not obligated to do a thing for Syria. If citizens or private groups want to help then fine, but the government of a people is only obligated to the people that elected it, no one else.

You forgot to mention how they're stealing all the white women

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Freezer posted:

Why is the liberal democracy of Israel, right next door, not taking in refugees? Because they're probably drafting settlement plans for their former land that's why.

Pretty much. We all know the reason they won't take them in. Because they are busy trying to turn the Palestinians into refugees as well.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat

Thank you, I'll try to look at that this weekend; right off the bat I see they say the 75% share might be so high due to better reporting of deaths in the Mediterranean vs other places (not that I think it wouldn't still be the #1 spot, the report just says the other places are probably more under reported.)

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

icantfindaname posted:

It's pretty surreal as an American to see educated, nominally liberal first worlders basically argue for white supremacist immigration policy

One of the cool things about liberalism as an ideology is that it can tolerate individuals who don't agree with each other, on things like religion, social values, etc. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that the people bitching about the drat Muslims not sharing our values don't actually believe in liberalism

Maybe because the experiment has already happened and importing muslims from third world countries causes disorder, riots, rapes and violent culture clashes. Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Dmitri-9 posted:

Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

:ironicat:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Dmitri-9 posted:

Maybe because the experiment has already happened and importing muslims from third world countries causes disorder, riots, rapes and violent culture clashes. Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

That's some nice Right Wing talking points you have there.

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

I guess liberalism is just moral relativism.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Dmitri-9 posted:

I guess liberalism is just moral relativism.

I guess throwing all Muslims under the Fundamentalist flag and stereotyping is a general Right Wing tactic. Oh wait, it is.

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

CommieGIR posted:

I guess throwing all Muslims under the Fundamentalist flag and stereotyping is a general Right Wing tactic. Oh wait, it is.

Someone suggested that Europe could absorb all of Iraq and Syria in this thread. That doesn't seem like too big of a group to have stereotypes about. Is that even the first step to solve the Sunni/Shia/6000 ethic group conflict that is causing this war?

Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Dmitri-9 posted:

I guess liberalism is just moral relativism.

:ironicat:

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Dmitri-9 posted:

That doesn't seem like too big of a group to have stereotypes about. Is that even the first step to solve the Sunni/Shia/6000 ethic group conflict that is causing this war?

So throw them all under the bus, right?

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011

Dmitri-9 posted:

Maybe because the experiment has already happened and importing muslims from third world countries causes disorder, riots, rapes and violent culture clashes. Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

Have you considered not getting your news from neo-nazi websites?

Dmitri-9
Nov 30, 2004

There's something really sexy about Scrooge McDuck. I love Uncle Scrooge.

CommieGIR posted:

So throw them all under the bus, right?

No not the Kurds they actually like us.

lmaoboy1998
Oct 23, 2013

icantfindaname posted:

It's pretty surreal as an American to see educated, nominally liberal first worlders basically argue for white supremacist immigration policy

One of the cool things about liberalism as an ideology is that it can tolerate individuals who don't agree with each other, on things like religion, social values, etc. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that the people bitching about the drat Muslims not sharing our values don't actually believe in liberalism

You guys should feel free to take in some Syrian refugees yourselves of course, if you're that concerned about it.

Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

lmaoboy1998 posted:

You guys should feel free to take in some Syrian refugees yourselves of course, if you're that concerned about it.

well that would just defeat the whole point of having satellite states

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Dmitri-9 posted:

No not the Kurds they actually like us.

50% of the refugees are children. Are you afraid the kids might try to institute Sharia law? Y'know, after fleeing an oppressive religious government in the middle of sectarian violence?

Do you get your news from Stormfront or something?

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Dmitri-9 posted:

Maybe because the experiment has already happened and importing muslims from third world countries causes disorder, riots, rapes and violent culture clashes. Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

The correct terminology is "urban ferals stealing our white women" As in all things, Europe is decades behind the times on this

lmaoboy1998
Oct 23, 2013

icantfindaname posted:

The correct terminology is 'urban ferals stealing our white women' As in all things, Europe is decades behind the times on this

121 Syrian refugees in 2014. I accept that there's only a thin sliver of coast where brown people can actually live without fear of persecution but really, you guys are letting the side down.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
As loathe as I am to say something like this, a friend of mine spent two months in a primarily immigrant Muslim town in Sweden, and her experiences were a horrifying cocktail of misogyny (up to an including rape and death threats), from men and women alike (including a little girl screaming at her that she's a vile person for watching cartoons instead of having children). How do you prevent the creation of insular, toxic communities like that one without loving over desperate people fleeing a horrible place?

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

my dad posted:

As loathe as I am to say something like this, a friend of mine spent two months in a primarily immigrant Muslim town in Sweden, and her experiences were a horrifying cocktail of misogyny (up to an including rape and death threats), from men and women alike (including a little girl screaming at her that she's a vile person for watching cartoons instead of having children). How do you prevent the creation of insular, toxic communities like that one without loving over desperate people fleeing a horrible place?

Report it to the police as harassment.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


CommieGIR posted:

Report it to the police as harassment.

How would that help?

Ernie Muppari
Aug 4, 2012

Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

lmaoboy1998 posted:

121 Syrian refugees in 2014. I accept that there's only a thin sliver of coast where brown people can actually live without fear of persecution but really, you guys are letting the side down.

sorry, we already ordered like, a billion yellow sombrero badges over here, y'alls are gonna' have to get the star and crescents

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

my dad posted:

As loathe as I am to say something like this, a friend of mine spent two months in a primarily immigrant Muslim town in Sweden, and her experiences were a horrifying cocktail of misogyny (up to an including rape and death threats), from men and women alike (including a little girl screaming at her that she's a vile person for watching cartoons instead of having children). How do you prevent the creation of insular, toxic communities like that one without loving over desperate people fleeing a horrible place?

Literally empty the pockets of hardworking Europeans.

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Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011

lmaoboy1998 posted:

121 Syrian refugees in 2014. I accept that there's only a thin sliver of coast where brown people can actually live without fear of persecution but really, you guys are letting the side down.

As an American, the US has a horrible immigration policy and absolutely should absolutely accept more refugees. That said :lol: at your naked attempt to distract from the moral failings of your own government by turning the discussion to US policy.

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