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Tesseraction posted:This is not to say that accepting refugees from the UNHCR camps is a bad thing by any means, but Cameron is deliberately choosing people who are 'easy' to rescue (since they're still in the Middle East or North Africa) despite the refugee crisis being on the EU shores (having suffered the harsh waters where thousands have drowned). He's ignoring the problem (the desperate and wretched) while claiming to solve it. The proposal was to go get them and bring them to England, which is obviously much more difficult than just accepting people who make it to Europe. The most at risk people are the ones who are refugees in neighboring countries, and many don't have the means to pay for smugglers, or can't afford to put their own life at risk or stop their flow of income for even a moment to actually attempt to make it to Europe. Don't forget that the people drowning are risking it all to escape not just Syria, but the living conditions as a refugee in the middle east. It's an extremely important part of this debate, and bringing that up is very positive. Although now I'm having a hard time finding that it was Camerons idea, which is how I first saw it presented. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 01:21
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Tesseraction posted:This is a fair point, but the major element of why this has finally been considered a crisis (despite it being a crisis for years) is that the desperate ones who crossed the seas to Greece have led to a situation where those desperate have escaped a lovely life in camps to potentially starve to death because what they were promised by smugglers wasn't true. Cameron hasn't offered anything to solve Greece's aid crisis. No, it's pretty clearly because it stopped being the Middle Easts problem and started being the Wests when people started showing up en masse. It may sound cynical, but if people weren't dying in the ocean coming to Europe, and just continued dying of starvation and freezing in the Middle East, no one would give a poo poo. And while European policy has been pretty lovely, particularly in the hot spots like Spain and Greece, the process still had to be upheld. If you made it into Europe, you couldn't just be shipped right back immediately. It bought you time to try and work your way out of those countries and into someplace else where you could request asylum. And local activists jumped right in and did a great job of helping people in refugee centers with their day to day needs, despite flimsy government support. It was much easier for people to help refugees there because of the large ratio of Greeks to refugees. Compare that to Lebanon, where 1/6th of the population are Syrian refugees. The support networks are stretched much thinner, and the majority of refugees can't even get into a camp to be mistreated in, forced to try their luck undocumented on the streets.
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Sep 18, 2015 02:30
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Not sure if I posted this when it happened, but you'll remember the Syrian refugee that was tripped by a reporter in Hungary or w/e. Well he made it to Spain and got a job there as a football coach. Now Real Madrid did a big thing in support of him as part of a larger campaign about refugees, which is really cool. Here he is meeting Ronaldo  And here's his son, who got to be one of the kids who walks out with the players at the beginning of the game. 
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Sep 19, 2015 |
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Sep 19, 2015 21:46
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Cracked has really active forums, and this is obviously a pretty significant thing compared to their typical user submitted articles, so it's not surprising there's a lot of discussion there.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:42
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Why is Narciss allowed to post in this thread exactly? If anyone wants to read his opinion, they can just read youtube comments. No need to get a double dose of it by polluting this thread with RT talking points and racist nonsense. In poo poo that matters, the US has pledged to take in an additional 10k Syrian refugees immediately, targeting specifically the most at risk people. quote:The 10,000 refugees are set to be admitted in the fiscal year that begins on October 1. They will number among the 70,000 refugees that the United States accepts from around the world each year at a cost of about $16,000 per new arrival. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/09/opening-door-thousands-syrians-150913092418353.html Give us your tired. Your poor. Your Assyrian Christians.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:42
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Puistokemisti posted:Wrongthink detected, mods???? Mods???? I'm afraid of a hand gesture a literal child made and now people think I'm a dumb idiot. Could it get any more Orwellian? Stay safe, everyone.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:50
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Narciss posted:Absolutely based Hungary lays down some wise words for the rest of Europe: I think the shift into the refugee crisis becoming a major issue is in part driven by European liberals no longer being primarily concerned about their own standard of living, given the support for initiatives like the one in the UK, in which people are signing up their spare bedrooms as available for refugees. There may be hardships associated with an increase in refugees, but they are negligible in the long term and irrelevant when put in context with the level of suffering that these refugees have to put up with in the absence of an attempt at resettlement. Anyone trying to balance helping refugees with maintaining their own standard of living, while refusing to accept any measure that drops that latter below 100% is wrong.
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Sep 22, 2015 16:24
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DarkCrawler posted:Excellent idea. All the Gulf States could easily house pretty much all the Syrian refugees if they wanted, considering their vast amount of wealth and need for a constant low-paid workforce that numbers in dozens of millions. Saudi Arabia has over 500k refugees, so if you're not in Germany, you've got a climb ahead of you to stoop to their level.
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Sep 22, 2015 16:26
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DarkCrawler posted:Huh. I'm having hard time finding sources for that. Apparently they also aren't signatories to the refugee laws. They don't have a designated refugee status, so the refugees are declared "visitors." What matters is that there's 500,000 Syrians in KSA that wouldn't be if there was no war.
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Sep 22, 2015 16:43
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Tesseraction posted:Europe did pretty well out of al-Andalus. People are more scared of Muslims today.
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Sep 23, 2015 13:36
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:We can't even get to the part where we start speculating on solutions to these problems, both temporary and permanent, because we can't get past the idea that there might be problems to begin with without someone getting called a racist. What, 2 pages ago, someone posted a video of like an 8 year old kid making a gesture at a camera to be used as evidence that refugees are all backwards Muslim extremists who will bring chaos and instability with them, and turn Europe into a war zone. And you want to make this dumb rear end argument right now to try and defend idiots making that argument like the truth is in the middle and we're being intolerant? I love the persecution complex all you morons who feel like they're in a war against evil tumblr liberals have. If you want to see more rational discussion in this thread, don't post if all you're going to do is talk about dumb poo poo. Alternatively, you could try following the news and posting content you would like to see discussed!
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Sep 23, 2015 17:55
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PaleIrishGuy posted:Ok, but that was Narciss that posted that. Everyone either got indignant (rightly so), dismissed it due to who posted it (rightly so), or didn't see it because they have Narciss blocked. That case isn't really what Canine Blues Arooo was talking about, I suspect. Rather, I suspect it's more about things, to pick an example, like Ligur mentioning that Finland has high unemployment already and that this will make it significantly more difficult for migrants or refugees to settle into a prosperous life in Finland being met with dismissals that he's a racist that hates brown people and why does he hate brown people. Fair enough, but I think the majority of the "this is an issue we need to discuss" things that come up are rooted in bigotry and stereotypes. We can have productive discussion about things that aren't, and language is certainly one of them. But the fact is that the flow of ISIS sympathizers is flowing towards Syria from Europe, not vice versa. ISIS propaganda as of late has been telling refugees to come to ISIS held land rather than the land of the unbelievers because they are the enemy. Every single refugee seeking asylum in Europe has responded to that effort with "no thanks." They're largely educated people, often with money, who just want a chance at a future that isn't shrouded in instability and war. Discussion in this thread has revolved around that point for the most part, and there's nothing redeemable to be said about the people who are pushing sectarian and intolerant half truths and misconceptions. That's why there's a lot of accusations of racism and bigotry. Not because the liberals aren't willing to address the real issues like how many refugees are secret hardcore al qaeda jihadists who want to bring sharia law to the west. I'm more than happy to discuss real issues surrounding this crisis, and I know I'm not the only one, but if you want to increase the quality of discussion in the thread, that's where you start.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:31
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It's pretty drat easy to learn a language when you're immersed in it, and not all jobs require a degree. In Denver, basically every taxi driver was an immigrant from Eritrea for some reason, and while they had noticeable accents, talking with them, they were generally getting by and happy, having only been in the US a few years. You're exaggerating how difficult it is to assimilate.
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Sep 23, 2015 19:40
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Question. Let's take for granted that first generation African immigrants overwhelmingly can't adapt and will only be qualified for the most menial of tasks throughout the duration of their lives. What then? gently caress off we're full?
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Sep 23, 2015 19:48
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Speaking of Merkel, she'll be speaking to the 70th UN session this weekend, as will the Pope, and the refugee crisis is bound to be a major subject. As will the future of Syria, as Putin and Obama will both be unveiling their new strategies.
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Sep 23, 2015 21:28
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Double Bill posted:Instead of staying in this country of 80 million with plenty of jobs for everyone, let's head for a country on the arctic circle that's the same size but has only 7% of the population. What could go wrong? The Finnish route tends to go through Moscow.
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Sep 26, 2015 16:46
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Double Bill posted:It did, in the 90s. Now 99+% of the arrivals go Germany -> Denmark -> Sweden -> Northern Finland. Source?
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Sep 26, 2015 16:51
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Ligur posted:On this note, Africa also receives something to the tune of 47,600 million as foreign aid, a year. By 2007, the West had spent $2.3 trillion in foreign aid over the past five decades. So even if "the West" collectively owes someone something, I think it would be safe to say we did pay back. Then I'd hate to see you try and comprehend how much money has been taken out of African nations by western companies over the last 5 decades, through an intricate system of corruption. It's more.
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Sep 28, 2015 22:03
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