The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

won't somebody please think of the money?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 06:35

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:07

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Volkerball posted:

To be fair, when it comes to proposed interventions, like a no fly zone to end bombing runs on civilians, and provide safe areas within Syria so people don't have to flee, generally the same people who support increased efforts to resettle refugees have a lot to say about the cost of those efforts.

what?

Kaal posted:

Plans cost money. Nothing is free. If you want to actually create a social net for these people, to actually integrate them into EU society - or for that matter American society - and turn them into citizens, then that's going require actual, you know, thought. You're going to have to make compromises and concessions to either raise new taxes, or divert money from existing welfare programs. The alternative is a UN border camp on the coast of Hungary.

lol, okay i'll just draw up a detailed plan to present to my good friends in on the atlantic council, i'll start a megathread to hammer out precise details later

Ernie Muppari fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Sep 4, 2015

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 06:44

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Kaal posted:

I look forward to the further expansion of the UNHCR then. It's hard to take folks seriously when they wake up to an ongoing issue and start wailing and gnashing their teeth that "someone outta do something", and then immediately shrug their shoulders when pressed for any suggestions at all.

i also don't take anyone seriously ever

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 06:55

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Zodium posted:

so your contribution to this debate is what, ironic implied moral outrage?

that's really cool and valuable imo, it's not like people are dying and we don't have a solution

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 07:35

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Zodium posted:

Which is what? The lack of sufficient immediate relief, our historical role in engendering the things people flee from, the EU's general incapacity for rapid adaptive response, the lack of even a hypothetical long-term viable immigration policy, or the clusterfuck of crisscrossing political preferences that make any one of these virtually impossible to solve in practice?

The 'real' issue is that there is no single real issue. It's context all the way down, and nobody seems to agree on where to start, let alone what to do. We can't pay or vote our way out of it because no one has a solution we can pay or vote for. This was a foreseeable, even mechanical problem. Best case, we can't control everything in the world, so eventually we were going to have to deal with a migration based on people fleeing bad conditions, for whatever reason. We failed to prepare for a predictable event, and now we're failing to deal with that predictable event. That's the only thing that matters. It's not a crisis of conscience, it's a crisis of competence.

yes

incompetence

surely there's no way there could be people, much less those in positions of privilege and power who could directly influence state policy on matters like this, who stood to benefit from the deleterious effects of western imperialism on the rest of the world while also being callous enough to scapegoat the people harmed by it

and it's even less likely that there're everyday people in the imperial core who, in spite of the fact that they're harmed by this hypothetical policy of brutal oppression and exploitation, also buy into the fascist mythos promoted by the western elite

and the idea that there could be well educated, ostensibly cynical and humanist citizens of the imperial core who uncritically accept pro-imperialist propaganda is just right out

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 19:54

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Zodium posted:

So, what, the real solution is actually locked away deep under Brussels and no-one can independently produce it because ... ? Makes sense, let's spend many hours operating under this assumption.

no i agree with you

everyone's just dumb

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 20:35

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

The Puppet Master posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...yrias-refugees/

makes u think

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 21:23

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

CommieGIR posted:

Who the gently caress would want to go to Saudi Arabia? Or the UAE? Or Qatar?

Seriously, most of these people are fleeing the sort of people in those countries.

well see i know your house is on fire but your next door neighbors are just fine right this second i don't know why you think you need to move your whole fam to a nice hotel in a nicer part of town

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 23:38

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Dmitri-9 posted:

Is it a liberal value to tolerate women being treated worse than animals?

# ¿ Sep 4, 2015 23:54

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Dmitri-9 posted:

I guess liberalism is just moral relativism.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 00:07

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

lmaoboy1998 posted:

You guys should feel free to take in some Syrian refugees yourselves of course, if you're that concerned about it.

well that would just defeat the whole point of having satellite states

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 00:28

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

lmaoboy1998 posted:

121 Syrian refugees in 2014. I accept that there's only a thin sliver of coast where brown people can actually live without fear of persecution but really, you guys are letting the side down.

sorry, we already ordered like, a billion yellow sombrero badges over here, y'alls are gonna' have to get the star and crescents

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 00:47

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

lmaoboy1998 posted:

I don't think I implied that we were blameless at all. To clarify, I think the UK's refugee policy is very bad. We get a lot of heat for that, and so we should. I'm not arguing for lessening the pressure on the UK at all, if anything it should be heightened. We need to take more refugees.

That said, it's literally unbelievable to me that the richest country in the world, and one of the most populous, accepted ~121~ Syrian refugees between 2011 and the start of 2014, so we've got to see a little more pressure there as well. Is the American media discussing this problem at all? I watch a few American poltiics shows regularly and it really doesn't seem to be a hot topic of discussion.

nationalist propaganda radio frames this as an exclusively european problem while highlighting eu member state :ghost:

financial troubles :ghost:

to remind us that while it's tragic that Kids Dead and slash or Public Official Racist it's just an unavoidable natural tragedy like an earthquake or bombing a wedding because as everyone knows running a nation-state is exactly like running a businesshouse and sometimes you have to ~~kill some Others~~ tighten your belt

meanwhile, mexicans ~~have drugs and rape and anchor babies~~ are taking our jobs

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 01:24

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Chomskyan posted:

Well for one, the US had a direct hand in creating the refugee crisis through its military action across the middle east.

but the whole point of the eurozone is to shield us from the consequences of that

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 01:28

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Volkerball posted:

And its military inaction, given 10 million people fled Syria before ISIS was prominent. No corner of the country was safe for IDP's thanks to a systematic bombing campaign by the regime on residential areas. A NFZ would have been a huge asset in limiting the scale of this crisis, and many, many refugees still advocate for one today. It isn't just republicans that have to wear this.

yes

inaction

that's the ticket

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 02:01

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

barrel bombs!

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 02:33

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

CommieGIR posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...889d_story.html

i feel like a youtube clip from that xfiles flashback episode where mulder meets the lone gunmen for the first time and everyone's comically incredulous about the idea that the us government isn't doubleplusgood would be apt

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 04:46

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

but at least we can rest easy secure in the knowlege that isis is surely a grassroots popular movement whose rise to prominence was clearly inevitable because of :ghost:

arabic culture and barrel bombs :ghost:

and not the quite visible hand of western imperialism

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 04:57

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Zodium posted:

baghdadi is a cia puppet

you're telling me that the central intelligence agency, the same agency that gave us bin laden and pinochet...

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 08:39

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

what immigration policy?

# ¿ Sep 5, 2015 09:15

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

OwlFancier posted:

I would support colonising space if we could convince Capital to leave the planet.

Capital [space]Flight

why would you want to give capital the high ground?

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 00:35

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

fade5 posted:

You are not VICE, CNN, please stop trying to be and embarrassing yourselves.

i unno that sounds p vicccccccceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee to me

# ¿ Sep 8, 2015 19:55

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

SickZip posted:

I would have thought that the biggest problem is that they keep joining ISIS

funny how joining cobra isn't as tempting when you don't have to worry about b.a.t.s breaking down your door if you don't

# ¿ Sep 9, 2015 23:34

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

mission accomplished

# ¿ Sep 10, 2015 08:44

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

nobody wants anyone to die

but sometimes the going gets tough

you gotta roll a hard six

you gotta make some tough choices

you gotta separate the brain from the rest of the body

you gotta tighten your belt

you gotta do what must be done

you gotta

# ¿ Sep 10, 2015 22:24

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

Between this 'argument' and the 'Borders dont exist/matter mannnnnnn', It hurts to read this thread.

Financial resources exist. Borders exists and they matter, whether or not they should. The world should be fair, but it isn't. Do you want to talk about developments, realistic solutions, and the costs, problems, and benefits of those solutions, or do you want live in the ponyverse where everyone gets along and every story ends with friendship?

that seems like a stupid question since the second option is the only one that requires the real world to change for the better in any way

# ¿ Sep 10, 2015 23:43

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

really there just isn't nearly enough foreign intervention in the world today

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 06:12

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Main Paineframe posted:

In the age of globalization, that definition is obsolete. It's trivial to get food shipped to a place from halfway around the world, to the point where it's typically cheaper than eating locally-produced food. If people are starving, that is because of a failure in the distribution system, rather than a problem of excess population. Typically these failures are not logistical, but rather ideological - for whatever reason, the people in charge of bringing in the food don't want to feed those starving people.

beep bop

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 19:21

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

PerpetualSelf posted:

No i'm just a anti-semite.

I've been radicalized against the Israelis and Jews by their foreign policy and continued reliance on our taxes to ensure their existence and their apartheid state. Not to mention their complete control of the media which they use to ensure poverty amongst the lower and middle classes and spread their form of poisonous capito-fascism to the world via the control of the media thanks to well known Jew 1% master Rupert Murdoch.

We need popular revolution of the proletariat against the jewish media overlords to ensure freedom of though for the working classes.

congraturation on falling for murdochian propaganda then

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 20:32

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

computer parts posted:

It's based on the idea that if a couple has fewer than 2 children, then populations will decrease.

well yeah but it doesn't anticipate the influx of east asian immigration in the 20s and the sudden drop to 0 population in 83

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 20:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:07

Ernie Muppari: Aug 4, 2012; Keep this up G'Bert, and soon you won't have a pigeon to protect!

Randler posted:

While overall the offence rate in Germany has been going down for a while, there have been years since 2004 where it actually increased (p. 9). Also there's the caveat that the PCS as the main crime rate statistic cannot be compared from 2004-2014, as it changed statistical basis in 2009. Furthermore, while overall offence rate is trending downwards, certain crimes are actually on the rise, particularly bodily harm (p. 22) and very noticeably burglarly into dwellings (p. 28). Also, while German suspects are down, non-German suspects are up (p. 64) and the ratio of non-German suspects to total suspects is still significantly higher than the ratio of non-Germans to total population (This is already discounting offences that can only be committed by foreigners). And while PCS itself notes that there are problems with determining number of non-German suspects the problems related to that determination are still unlikely to fully balance out the disproportionate amount of non-German suspects. Though it has to be said that differing age demographics among non-Germans residing in Germany probably unfavorably skew part of that, because some non-German populations tend to have proportionally more young men than the German population, and young men are the subset of a population most likely to offend.

Just pointing toward an overall downward trend in crime rates is a bit too simple.

[Page references to PCS 2014, English language version.]

so you're saying i should buy bitcoins?

# ¿ Sep 15, 2015 20:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Refugee Crisis - a crisis of conscience