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Dead Reckoning posted:Well, if you're going to stake out a position that people who are suffering have a moral right to the resources of wealthy countries, and that wealthy countries have a complementary obligation to provide those resources, you have to be willing to discuss the limits of that right and the practical challenges involved (especially if you're going to include people merely suffering from a low standard of living) or you have to articulate an unlimited right and deal with the problems that brings. So far no one has been willing to do that other than SedanChair with is "full communism now" shtick that we all know isn't serious. The thing is that systems are already in place to deal with refugee's that work. It's just that certain people want to shut those down because there is an actual significant number of refugees. But to try and frame the argument that the incredibly rich EU (talking about core countries here not Croatia or Greece) can't afford to house refugee's is insane. The narrative that the refugee's are all extremist Muslim hill people is also retarded and insane because a large portion of the Syrian and Iraqi refugee's are fleeing religious extremism. You know whats a good way to radicalize a group of religious people? Oppressing them. So if you like Muslim extremism then well I guess you should be in favor of dicking over the refugee's.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:42
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Nermal posted:No it's not, you're not grasping the scale of how many people are coming and will come to Europe if given the chance. It can't be afforded, not without massive societal upheaval and a significant drop in living standards. So your telling me the worlds most powerful economic union can't afford to house and clothes refugee's who if they all moved to Germany would make up less than 3% of the population. just lol. Nermal posted:If any are extremists, once they get to Europe, we can't get them out. Our legal systems will not allow us to deport them back to places where they'll be executed or tortured. We don't have a Guantanamo Bay. Does europe just not have military's, or police, or prisons? Like do you think crime just never happens in europe or something. and lol at the notion the EU can't deport people.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:23
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Nermal posted:In this fantasy scenario of yours, are we saying a polite but firm 'no' to the non-Syrians at the border (everyone's being honest when asked of course), and they're sheepishly turning around and heading back? Do you really think that's what's happening, or that that's remotely feasible? There are refugee's from more than just Syria dude, and they deserve help to. IMO all refugee's should be allowed in and helped. Nermal posted:Being an Islamist extremist is not a crime. I'd prefer not to live in the type of police state that has the monitoring capability required to accurately predict who our next beheader is going to be, not when a significant amount of the population are candidates, anyway. If they aren't committing a crime who gives a hot gently caress if they are "extreme". And again, oppressing muslims (like any religion) only makes them more radical not less. If you think just ignoring this crisis is a good idea you sure must love terrorism.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:59
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Dead Reckoning posted:My opinion is that European countries should make an effort to help the refugees, but if they conclude that there is a practical limit on how many they can take, this is not a moral failing on their part, even if they choose not to expend every possible political and financial resource on this particular problem. People may die because European governments didn't spend more resources to give them a place to live, but people will also die because European governments didn't spend more resources curing infectious disease. If we're talking about macro level problems, it's silly to insist that a death has greater weight because it was physically closer. Except the well being of their citizens is threatened if they don't accept the refugees because enabling radicalization by forcing these people to die or be sent back will make them a large threat to the Euro Citizenry. Also as it's been said before most of the refugee's coming in are middle class and well educated so.....
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Sep 22, 2015 12:29
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This thread reads like It's full of first year economic students lecturing their friends at the student union about how we have to close the borders right now because it will destroy our economy. Western Europe and the United States are both service economies that improve as more people buy things; acting like refugee's or god forbid  ECONOMIC MIGRANTS will destroy the economy by not having jobs completely and utterly ignores that they will buy things stimulating all sorts of industry. There's also that whole thing were in this current refugee crisis that if you just turn a shitload of people away and they radicalize it will have a much larger negative impact on the economy once poo poo starts exploding. EDIT: Also wondering why migrants and refugee's hold regressive social views isn't hard when you consider many come from places that are essentially still in the 18th century education wise. There is also that whole thing with those dudes in the giant golden building in the center of Rome; they regularly profess regressive views but I don't see any posters doing that stupid "OH WHAT NOW LIEBRALLS? ROLLS EYES" thing vis a vis the Catholic Church. Venom Snake fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 17:26
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Mikojan posted:Not if they continue getting everything for free. I had no idea Europe embraced full communism and has no stores
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Sep 24, 2015 19:20
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Puistokemisti posted:How much do I personally have to pay if I want to dress like KKK and shout racial slurs at minorities? And should I send the money somewhere or just hurl it at the darkies I see? 
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Sep 27, 2015 22:29
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Generally people radicalize a lot more when you deport them back to a living hellscape to be blow up by an oppressive government or have you head chopped off by local militia number #1,265 If you are in favor of Islam becoming more "open" or what ever to western religious idealism you can start by not sending people to die in one of the most unsafe places on earth.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:44
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Liberal_L33t posted:Only if Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt were communists because they saw the Soviet Union is a preferable alternative to you know who. lol Winston Churchill was a huge idiot and Franklin was friendly to the Soviet Union for reasons other than just Hitler.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:47
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I hear violence is an excellent re-radicalization tool obviously if we maintain the policy that the beatings will continue until moral improves then everything will just be alright in the end won't it?
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Sep 29, 2015 18:56
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I'm not sure Ligur actually lives in Finland since none of my Finnish friends have ever complained out anything but the weather just being poo poo for all eternatiy.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:43
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Yeah I'm going to say Ligur doesn't live in Finland, or at least anymore.
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Sep 30, 2015 18:52
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Ligur posted:Come here and look for a job with university education on your belt and English only. In the busiest, largets city in Finland like Helsinki. You can even come from another Western country. Nice way to completely avoid the question. And I HAVE actually been to Helsinki and I quite enjoyed my time there. My only complaint was the weather being a tad bad.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:06
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I like how Ligur is going to keep ignoring the question because he doesn't actually live in Finland.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:24
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Ligur posted:Does anyone know what the gently caress this guy is talking about unless it's trollin'? You don't actually seem to understand how things actually currently are in Finland, so I cast doubt on the fact you actually live there. Unless you live under a bridge or something or on a polar station.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:30
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Alhazred posted:Welcome to Northern Europe: Believe it or not last time I was in Norway was during winter and I thought it was beautiful (I love snow) if just kinda freezing. I just don't like freezing foggy rain. Still the people are nice and I love the food/scenery so it all balances out in my opinion.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:41
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Man if you think stuff is bad in Finland you should see the U.S. were there are states were it actually is bad. It's so incredibly adorable to see you be upset that people might come and have to spend time getting and education when we can't even provide that here to our own citizens.
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Sep 30, 2015 19:45
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All this thread has convinced me is we should send all the refugee's to Finland because it would vastly increase Finlands posting ability.
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Sep 30, 2015 20:50
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Finland is a conscription country anyway why would they be against a massive influx of new recruits.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:29
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Puistokemisti posted:These people already ran away instead of fighting for their own country, the idea that they would have stomach to fight against russians is pretty ridiculous. I know this post is sarcastic but I'm really havin a laff at the idea that Finnish conscripts are brave well trained soldiers
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Sep 30, 2015 21:44
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