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Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec
Lots of people on the forums say The United States of America deserved the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001. Why do you hold such convictions if you believe we deserved it? I personally believe America is pretty great, don't know why anyone would have beef with us.

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Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...

might have something to do with the CIA and NSA and other three letter agencies finding plenty of reason to think the attacks were coming beforehand and nobody with any power actually doing anything

also maybe constantly meddling with the middle east with only the interests of america in mind and no concern for whether the guys we put in charge were total assholes or not plus no concern for how much anyone liked us in the event the guys we installed got fatal cases of lead poisoning wasn't a good idea either

e: oh yeah and it also didn't help that the other guys we helped get into power decided we were fuckwads who only helped them because they were opposing guys they didn't like and made the smart decision to start trying to gently caress with us before we began loving with them

KennyLoggins
Dec 3, 2004
Welcome to the Danger Zone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AYujWCCHRk

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot
deserve is the wrong word and a stupid concept to apply to 9/11

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggUXa2UVNYc

Ignatius M. Meen
May 26, 2011

Hello yes I heard there was a lovely trainwreck here and...

mdm posted:

deserve is the wrong word and a stupid concept to apply to 9/11

indeed it is but my post above is just an explanation of the logic behind the sentiment, us foreign policy in the middle east is full of idiotic blunders that are quite understandable as to why those who took the blunt of the fallout would be pissed enough to want revenge

Hobohemian
Sep 30, 2005

by XyloJW
Those bankers deserved it for sure.

Bad Titty Puker
Nov 3, 2007
Soiled Meat
Look at the history of American involvement in the Middle East. And no, America didn't deserve the attack, but some say that American involvement in the Middle East provoked what happened.

The United States deposed the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mossadegh, and installed Reza Pahlavi in his place.

America supported Israel as a client state in the region while making oil deals with the Saudis.

Did modern terrorism start with the insurgency groups in Europe that collaborated with the PFLP, who later killed athletes during the so-called Black September murders at the Olympics? That's when "terrorism" came to public notice.

Israel is a hot-button issue. There are Israelis who don't approve and protest actions the actions of the Israeli goverment, which slaughtered, tortured and walled off the Palestian Arabs, who are only nominally first-class citizens in the Israeli state. Of course, the Arabs are far more virtuous in their killings and torture, as are all the nations that use it. We don't. Think of Gitmo and the secret CIA prisons as a necessary to defend the country against the terrists.

Oh yeah, and America armed itself to the teeth and has continued arming itself steadily in the post-war era. Some claim that this is as much to defend the state from any chances of an American insurgency as to have as much geopolitical influence as possible.

This is easy to dismiss, just accuse anyone who points this out of disloyalty, or ask them why they hate America, or both.

TwoFire
Sep 11, 2001

by Ralp
because you touch yourself at night, OP

Edmund Sparkler
Jul 4, 2003
For twelve years, you have been asking: Who is John Galt? This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life. I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values. I am the man who has deprived you of victims and thus has destroyed your world, and if you wish to know why you are peris

because seven ate 9/11

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec

TwoFire posted:

because you touch yourself at night, OP

Usually do it during the day, but ok fair point.

So far the consensus is we didn't deserve it? Bunch of jokester goons need to get with the program then.

Chinatown
Sep 11, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
Fun Shoe
white people

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Bad Titty Puker posted:

Look at the history of American involvement in the Middle East. And no, America didn't deserve the attack, but some say that American involvement in the Middle East provoked what happened.

The United States deposed the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mossadegh, and installed Reza Pahlavi in his place.

America supported Israel as a client state in the region while making oil deals with the Saudis.

Did modern terrorism start with the insurgency groups in Europe that collaborated with the PFLP, who later killed athletes during the so-called Black September murders at the Olympics? That's when "terrorism" came to public notice.

Israel is a hot-button issue. There are Israelis who don't approve and protest actions the actions of the Israeli goverment, which slaughtered, tortured and walled off the Palestian Arabs, who are only nominally first-class citizens in the Israeli state. Of course, the Arabs are far more virtuous in their killings and torture, as are all the nations that use it. We don't. Think of Gitmo and the secret CIA prisons as a necessary to defend the country against the terrists.

Oh yeah, and America armed itself to the teeth and has continued arming itself steadily in the post-war era. Some claim that this is as much to defend the state from any chances of an American insurgency as to have as much geopolitical influence as possible.

This is easy to dismiss, just accuse anyone who points this out of disloyalty, or ask them why they hate America, or both.

Don't forget getting involved in Afganistan after the soviets invaded. The CIA for example gave all the weapons and support to Pakistan's ISI's gestapo, which then made sure the worst fundie groups got the most support.

US foreign policy is basically a string of long term blowback effects

Immortan
Jun 6, 2015

by Shine

Bad Titty Puker posted:

The United States deposed the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mossadegh, and installed Reza Pahlavi in his place.

Reza Pahlavi > Ruhollah Khomeini

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

FUCK YOU HITLER
STALINGRAD
ROFLMFAO
You Americans didn't deserve 9/11 but you do deserve Presidente Trump

Smelly Bohemian
Aug 20, 2015

by Lowtax
Boy Bands. Boy Bands are why we deserved 9/11.

somethingawful bf
Jun 17, 2005
People who say that usually are just projecting their self hatred, op

Bad Titty Puker
Nov 3, 2007
Soiled Meat

Immortan posted:

Reza Pahlavi > Ruhollah Khomeini

Yeah, two wrongs make a right if one wrong is less wrong than the other.

Immortan
Jun 6, 2015

by Shine

Bad Titty Puker posted:

Yeah, two wrongs make a right if one wrong is less wrong than the other.

The Shaw was preferable to the Ayatollah.

TwoFire
Sep 11, 2001

by Ralp

Smelly Bohemian posted:

Boy Bands. Boy Bands are why we deserved 9/11.

but timberlake is still popular and not dead :dawkins101:

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002
In addition to us getting involved and choosing arbitrary terrorists to back, let's not forget the British who basically drew lines on a map after WW1 when the Ottoman Empire fell and invented some countries, putting people in power who had no business ruling over their respective regions.

We can cry boo about the middle east all we want and talk poo poo about arabs, muslims, and persians, but all of it... ALL OF IT... is our fault. All of it.


UK and US citizens may not have deserved it, but the same cannot be said about both governments.


Edit: oh and add insult to injury the western powers create Israel further alienating the arabs. Look at Jerusalem in before WW2 and look at it now. It used to be a city where 3 religions actually lived together and respected each other. Now it looks like a loving military base.


gently caress Israel. gently caress the UK. And gently caress you.

Shadow fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Sep 4, 2015

somethingawful bf
Jun 17, 2005

Shadow posted:

In addition to us getting involved and choosing arbitrary terrorists to back, let's not forget the British who basically drew lines on a map after WW1 when the Ottoman Empire fell and invented some countries, putting people in power who had no business ruling over their respective regions.

We can cry boo about the middle east all we want and talk poo poo about arabs, muslims, and persians, but all of it... ALL OF IT... is our fault. All of it.


UK and US citizens may not have deserved it, but the same cannot be said about both governments.

Yeah, well, they wouldn't exist if we didn't want them to. We can nuke them at anytime . . .

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

The Iran thing is funny since the Brits used the americans as a catspaw.

They got made over how the government of Iran nationalized the energy industry and pissed off companies like BP.

Whiskey Sours
Jan 25, 2014

Weather proof.

etalian posted:

Don't forget getting involved in Afganistan after the soviets invaded. The CIA for example gave all the weapons and support to Pakistan's ISI's gestapo, which then made sure the worst fundie groups got the most support.

US foreign policy is basically a string of long term blowback effects

America armed the Mujahideen, one of their commanders was Osama Bin Laden. After the collapse of the Afghan communist government the Mujahideen became the Taliban, who sheltered Bin Laden's new group, Al Qaeda.

But at least Reagan stuck it to the Soviets.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Whiskey Sours posted:

America armed the Mujahideen, one of their commanders was Osama Bin Laden. After the collapse of the Afghan communist government the Mujahideen became the Taliban, who sheltered Bin Laden's new group, Al Qaeda.

But at least Reagan stuck it to the Soviets.

short term gain for long term loss

Whiskey Sours
Jan 25, 2014

Weather proof.

Shadow posted:

In addition to us getting involved and choosing arbitrary terrorists to back, let's not forget the British who basically drew lines on a map after WW1 when the Ottoman Empire fell and invented some countries, putting people in power who had no business ruling over their respective regions.

I learned today that this actually isn't true. They drew those lines on the map in 1916.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002

Whiskey Sours posted:

I learned today that this actually isn't true. They drew those lines on the map in 1916.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement
I'm confused. I said that the UK drew those lines in WW1. Most of which were enforced when we divided up the spoils. Then in WW2, they finished their plan and told Palestine they no longer existed.

Edit: ok, so I said after WW1. Drawing the lines may have happened a few years before the war ended, but... we didn't win yet so it was just fantasy.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice


Because Big Dogs said so.

Ork of Fiction
Jul 22, 2013
They're just typical millennials, OP.

They think they deserve everything.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

maybe Bin Laden ordered the attack since he knew it would inspire lots of funny gifs and photoshops?

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:



Because Big Dogs said so.

Gonna have to think about this, hmm.

glowstick party tonight
Oct 4, 2003

by zen death robot

Immortan posted:

The Shaw was preferable to the Ayatollah.

that was never the question, the question was whether a shah was preferable to a democratic government on the verge of nationalizing oil in the 50s

we failed that question

TwoFire
Sep 11, 2001

by Ralp
TED SHAW DID NOTHING WRONG!

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002

etalian posted:

maybe Bin Laden ordered the attack since he knew it would inspire lots of funny gifs and photoshops?

hosed up if true




We really need to let ISIS crack the eggs to make the omelette. Let the Saudis deal with it. And the mighty Israelis who love flexing muscles at civilians (and children).

mdm posted:

that was never the question, the question was whether a shah was preferable to a democratic government on the verge of nationalizing oil in the 50s

we failed that question
So beyond hosed up that this happened.

Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Sep 4, 2015

Whiskey Sours
Jan 25, 2014

Weather proof.

Shadow posted:

hosed up if true




We really need to let ISIS crack the eggs to make the omelette. Let the Saudis deal with it. And the mighty Israelis who love flexing muscles at civilians (and children).

How to solve the ISIS Crisis:
a) Tell Israel, Turkey, Iran and Jordan that any territory they can control becomes theirs
b) Nuke Riyadh

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002

Whiskey Sours posted:

How to solve the ISIS Crisis:
a) Tell Israel, Turkey, Iran and Jordan, and Saudi Arabia that ISIS is their problem.
b) Nuke Riyadh

Fixed. I like b but let's be reasonable :)

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->
imo the people who hijacked airplanes and flew them into towers are responsible

Whiskey Sours
Jan 25, 2014

Weather proof.

Fojar38 posted:

imo the people who hijacked airplanes and flew them into towers are responsible

whoa controversial opinions itt

personally i think that obama was responsible imo

TwoFire
Sep 11, 2001

by Ralp

Fojar38 posted:

imo the people who hijacked airplanes and flew them into towers are responsible

Death to those who ridicule Islam (the peaceful religion)!

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Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec

Fojar38 posted:

imo the people who hijacked airplanes and flew them into towers are responsible

Why did they think they had to do that?

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