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I'm pretty sure that's the standard system here. At least I remember one year where I'd have to get bussed to the high school to get to my advanced math course.
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Sep 11, 2015 02:50
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Yashichi posted:I'm not sure why the course of action is to pretend all students are equal because racists might abuse the system. Shouldn't the goal be to improve educational opportunities for students with these disadvantages instead? What if the disadvantaged students benefit from an integrated class?
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Sep 11, 2015 04:45
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blah_blah posted:You go to a bad school if there aren't enough people taking Algebra I in 9th grade to make up a whole class. At the school I went to during 9th grade (before I moved back to Canada), the solid students were in Geometry in 9th grade, the really good ones were in Algebra II, and there were a handful of people in Pre-Calculus and Calculus AB as freshman. This was a solid school in an upper middle-class area, but not a magnet school or anything like that. The topic is specifically about having Algebra I in 9th grade though?
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Sep 11, 2015 12:47
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Shakugan posted:So many fields of mathematics are interrelated, teaching them in such a segregated way is very strange (at the low introductory level e.g. all of high school). They do interrelate and are taught as such, they just don't specify that on the course name. tsa posted:Not any good school you can't, or rather it would be incredibly hard. Your STEM program was probably pretty terrible if most people were still in calc I as freshman, any decent school is going to have most their students already out of Calc II just going in. No, schools often recommend you retake Calculus in college (the real reason is to get their  but it's fairly common).
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Sep 11, 2015 16:52
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Solkanar512 posted:Come on, how can you say that when I already described the middling public high school I attended with 2/3 eligible for subsidised school lunch that still had classes full of kids a year or more ahead in math? Not hard depending on the size of the school.
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Sep 11, 2015 23:09
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PT6A posted:
It's not a track because you can belong to some AP courses but not others. I have a friend who was big into AP Bio and Chem (and is now in med school) but had a more or less regular History and Physics class (and was in Pre-Cal her senior year).
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Sep 11, 2015 23:14
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PT6A posted:So, when people express opposition to tracking, it's only an all-or-nothing system that they have a problem with? That's good to know. I haven't seen a program at the high school level that was all-or-nothing, for whatever that's worth, and I think it would probably be a bad idea. It's pretty common in Germany.
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Sep 12, 2015 01:52
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Bip Roberts posted:Well it would be awkward in the least since many science and engineering programs have calculus based chemistry or physics for freshmen majors. You can and most people do take them concurrently.
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Sep 12, 2015 14:07
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DeadlyMuffin posted:An engineering student who had to take math 1A (calc 1) would be at a big disadvantage since the introductory physics and engineering classes absolutely require that knowledge. I'm sure it can happen, but it definitely isn't common or preferred. There's an equal number of professors teaching 1A and 1B this year.
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Sep 12, 2015 19:44
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Xand_Man posted:I think it would be very useful if trig was shortened to make room for more vector math and linear algebra. We already didn't have trigonometry in my school, I think it went Geometry -> Alg 2 -> Pre-Cal -> Some form of Calculus, or maybe with Alg 1 first and then the subsequent three topics. They definitely should teach linear algebra in high school though because it's different from the stuff already taught but it's not really that hard either. Although some of it does require some Calculus. Probability would be fine too (not to be confused with Statistics).
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Sep 13, 2015 03:48
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Higsian posted:Also universities as they currently stand should not exist and instead we should be moving a lot of general education into schools and professional teaching into professional schools and universities left entirely focussed on academia. Absolutely nobody should be going to university for better job prospects unless their desired profession is academic in nature. And conditions of entry should be entirely divorced from school. But I guess that's a different discussion. Kinda hard to justify as long as the legacy of the Morrill Act exists.
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Sep 13, 2015 13:51
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achillesforever6 posted:God Calc II was such a bullshit class, what was the point of having me take it in order to get a Geology Degree? It was just there to weed out the people who didn't have the time to deal with that bullshit. Though having any calc/trig experience at all would have probably saved my Structural Geology grade. A major reason for it is that there's not enough money to make a specialized course for each major. Although on the other hand, if you do end up switching majors, you don't have to take another calculus class.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:50
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Miss-Bomarc posted:Partial Differential Equations, in particular, is generally presented in the freshman year. Where? I didn't take it until around the end of my sophomore year (which is about the earliest time I was able to).
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Sep 15, 2015 12:24
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Solkanar512 posted:Where are you going with this? Are you genuinely curious or is this going to turn into a fight where people's personal experience is going to be dismissed because it isn't a statistically significant sample? I mean if you're going to say "it's absolutely necessary for all engineering students to take calculus in High School first" it'd be nice to see if that was true. Or even more basic than that: If you're going to say "PDE is commonly seen in the Freshman Year", that's something that'd be nice to know and prove.
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Sep 15, 2015 13:05
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Panzeh posted:Most high school kids would gain a lot more from spending half the day at a trade school than trying to get calculus shoved in their face in the vain hope that college will get them something. Yeah, then they can dream of working 80 hour weeks.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:07
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Unseen posted:Nothing wrong with not going to college and getting a trade. In this day and age, if you're not going to college for specialized training to work in a field that requires that training (ex doctor nurse lawyer engineer scientist), you might as well avoid the mortgage. Whether you or your perfect Scandinavian government are paying it. What's wrong is when all the tradesmen are mysteriously black people and hispanics.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:46
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Panzeh posted:You can kinda tell me about the cushy white-collar nature of being an assistant manager of a wal-mart and then tell me about how a paying apprenticeship(which is also common in other college degree fields such as architecture) is worse than dropping thousands of dollars on college. But is an apprenticeship better than free college?
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Sep 16, 2015 12:45
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archduke.iago posted:Look, if you want to institute a Harrison Bergeron style Handicapper General because ensuring equal status is more important than customizing education to a student's ability then you should just say so. I think he's wondering why the only people getting a customized education are the ones that already excel in the current system.
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Sep 17, 2015 22:06
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blah_blah posted:Maybe according to some lazy, reductive view of the world they do, but Asians also face discrimination relative to white students in various ways. It's arguably even silly to lump Jews in with whites given the historical discrimination they've faced in the academic system (as is well-known, the broad-based admissions criteria that have now become standard at top universities were originally instituted to keep Jews out). There's a pretty good reason why people are using "minority" to mean "Black or Hispanic". You should think about why that is.
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Sep 20, 2015 02:35
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ChipNDip posted:It makes it a metric fuckton more difficult and irritating though. Calc I and/or II at most universities are notorious weed-out, GPA-crushing, time-sink classes for science and engineering majors. Those classes, along with General Chemistry and Intro Physics are easily responsible for a significant portion of the "shortage" of STEM majors. If we want more students going into scientific fields, then we absolutely want more of them to avoid those classes with AP credits. Or you could alter the curriculum at the university, but hey.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:54
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twodot posted:This sounds opposite to me. I would understand an argument in reducing the difficulty of any random freshmen class, but stating that a freshmen class is too difficult, and therefore we should make everyone get AP credits is really bizarre to me. If the college course is so much more difficult, it seems like that would be for a reason. The usual reason it's difficult is because the classes are excessively large and the lecturers are inexperienced and/or literal grad students. The material is more or less identical because that's how you get the credit in the first place.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:03
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silence_kit posted:I don't know, in my experience, the AP exam is much easier than the college class. I got a 5 on the AP Calc test, and was recommended by my advisor to retake the class in college, and I learned a lot when retaking the college class. You can get a 5 on the AP Calc test without having any sort of intuition about calculus, and only having memorized the derivative and anti-derivative formulas. This is definitely not true unless you only did the AB exam, in which case no poo poo that a year long class that only gives you a semester class's credit is easier.
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Sep 22, 2015 22:06
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silence_kit posted:What I am saying is that AP Calculus isn't a good replacement for university calculus. I disagree with you when you say that the material is identical. And I'm saying that wasn't my experience. My university has a bit of segmentation for calculus though where some classes are more in depth in certain areas (mostly proofs) for the STEM majors that require it (like Math or Physics).
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Sep 22, 2015 23:35
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