Whats it like to be in an open relationship

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ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

I don't see how open relationships can ever really work in a society that still likes mono relationships. Like I could potentially see a hippy love commune thing working* because everyone shares everyone, but when you go out with your friends friday night and they bring their monogamous dedicated gfs/bfs and they're like "hey where's your so?" and you just sorta have to look at your drink and mumble about them being on a date there's absolutely no way anyone is going to maintain respect for you. When you compare a mono to a poly/open thing it's always going to look (and objectively so) that the poly people's partners are less dedicated to them.

*: and even with this I recall reading how those communes end up with people on the top that monopolize the desirable partners and people on the bottom who pretty much get nothing, there's always going to be a status element to relationships

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 21:59

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 13:32

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

mind the walrus posted:

You do know there are women who don't like the idea of their man getting their cock wet wherever too right?

Plus not every monogamist is some creepy misogynistic or patriarchal douchebag. Some guys just like the idea of supreme intimacy with one person and trusting to a commitment that a woman values them enough to not jump on every attractive dick she meets. It's definitely got shades of controlling and insecure behavior in there but it's not malicious unless the guy is emotionally stunted and goes all Raging Bull on her.

In my experience the only people who talk about monogamy are "controlling genitals" are manipulative shitstains trying to morally browbeat their partners into sexual things they're not comfortable with. It's icky.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:02

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Moridin920 posted:

nah you're just hanging out with uptight people

I don't really think so. People absolutely do judge and look down on other people for that kind of thing. I'm not saying it's right but that is a cultural aspect to monogamy, when your partner sleeps around that doesn't just reflect badly on them it also reflects badly on you, hence cuck being a meme.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:05

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

a bay posted:

Not me

I mean that's good but that doesn't mean it's not a thing.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:07

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Like can you imagine a major politician in an open relationship? Would people respect obama if they knew he let other guys rail his wife. It's silly to pretend there's not a social status element to having a dedicated significant other. It absolutely does affect how people view and respect you in a monogamous culture such as ours.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:13

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Moridin920 posted:

Right but politicians have to pander to a lot of conservative uptight people.

In your 20s when everyone is aware of the situation and everyone enjoys loving and snorting blow and doing drugs it doesn't matter as much.

That was my point though, if absolutely everyone were onboard with open stuff I could vaguely see it working, but as long as that's not the case then the people in the position to fully monopolize a single partner, (or sleep around themsevles without their partners sleeping around on them) are going to have a higher status than the people who have to share. I think this is partly why when you look at reddit boards on poly (a gold mine of fantastic e/n style posts) it's always guys that are whining about having trouble coping with their gf sleeping around, there's uneven gender standards there and they subconsciously realize being in this situation devalues them socially. It says that they aren't good enough to be one of the guys who has a dedicated girlfriend.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:21

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

LethalGeek posted:

Good, gently caress that noise. Do it from the start or don't do it at all, that poo poo rarely...never? works.

Edit: I take that back I forget people hit 50 or so and start going gently caress It a lot more. Those you don't hear about generally though.

You are a pretty chill poly person in all these threads you post in. You don't really hold it up as being better or morally superior and you agree it can easily be abusive and needs to be a thing both people are 100% onboard with from day 1.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:25

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Mr. Stingly posted:

They don't judge if they're broke and drunk and horny and it's 1:00am on a Thursday like Moridin is saying. They DO judge if half of them have kids and they're in their 30's and so are you. Basically if they're adults that do adult stuff. If you're in your 20's, banging anyone you can is not a big deal, in whatever configuration happens to be working (or not working). If you're attached to someone more often that anyone else, that can be your SO and meanwhile you're still hooking up on the side.

That used to be called just "sleeping around" or "being a young person" but now that everything we do has to be categorized as some sort of all-encompassing lifestyle so it can have a tag on your blog, it's getting its own Sex Kingdom. Now it has a culture and is an established vehicle for talking about extra garbage. This is fine but just going out and doing it doesn't get you followers you can monetize, so now you have to proselytize and come up with ways to inject a manufactured lifestyle into the village square discussion.

This is why the arguments in favor of it sound so half-hearted and talking-point-ish.

It's not like everyone is super promiscuous in their 20s though, I only knew of like 1 open relationship in my entire social circle and people constantly made fun of the dude for it until it crashed and burned. Sure there were single people who hosed around but if you were putting titles on it it implied monogamy.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:32

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Moridin920 posted:

Well yeah alright.

I have two points:

- it's not necessarily the gf loving other people that is low status, it's the gf loving other people and ignoring you while you act like a doormat about it and secretly hate it and feel like poo poo that makes you seem low status

- don't give a poo poo about if random dils think you are high status or not. That kind of thinking leads to PUA poo poo. Just be awesome.

Also, a lot of those people are loving crazy people, definitely. Do that poo poo at your own caution. I do want to make the slight distinction again though between people who clearly glom on to a girl and watch her gently caress around while she talks about poly this and poly that and people who are happy with each other and now and again they gently caress someone else just for kicks.

We've been telling depressed people to stop caring what other people think and just be themselves for pretty much forever but the brain sadly doesn't work that way. Pretty much everyone craves external validation. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that particular mindset, particularly since due to skewed gender standards it kind of has a skeevy ownership undertone, but you can't just logic yourself into being okay with open relationships due to a variety of elements including social pressure.

If you're someone like lethal who just doesn't give a gently caress that's great, but it's not something I think most people would be capable of in a monogamous culture such as the US.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:50

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

tuyop posted:

I don't know what this means.

What I mean is I'm monogamous and do not personally feel like my gf is controlling my genitals. I think trying to turn this into some sort of social equality issue to shame people who aren't comfortable with non-monogamy into something poly or open by implying unless they're willing to they're a misogynist is really gross and I absolutely hate when people make posts that imply that. It's borderline sexual abuse.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 22:55

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Moridin920 posted:

Also I think in general the USA is a nation of prudes who will gleefully watch screaming people being eviscerated with their children but get super angry about a nipple showing and I think it really impacts societal views on sexual freedom and promiscuity - as long as we're talking about status and how other people view you.

Yeah i agree with this. To reiterate its not that I agree with the mentality described in my posts just that I'm aware it exists and as long as other people's opinion of you matters, socially and career wise, it's not something i think most people would voluntarily ignore.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 23:13

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

nomadologique posted:

the second one is a speculation; my suspicion is that, given a different set of mores, many more people would be viably able to enjoy and feel fulfilled in a non-monogamous relationship than do today; but because of those mores, the truth is very much that it's a rarity -- the people involved have to somehow have escaped from or been immune to a lot of societal programming

This is basically what i have been saying just starting from a different end.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 23:17

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

I think probably the best thing about poly relationships would be getting into a fight right before their date night with someone else or needing your partner after an emotionally rough day only to have them be unavailable because they are with someone else.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2015 23:27

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

I don't really get how people refuse to acknowledge there is also some rationing of attention in a multi person relationship. What happens when two people want to hang out with one person on the same day, or when events like an anniversary overlap with another partner's birthday or something.

nomadologique posted:

it's not like that doesn't happen in monogamous relationships, where you need your partner after an emotionally rough day only to have them still be at work because they like their job more than you

&c

Like this is just dumb, it does happen in mono relationships due to business travel or whatever but that's not the same thing as your partner being unavailable because they're in bed with someone else. For me I can pick up my phone and get ahold of my girlfriend for support or companionship pretty much whenever I want, if she was having a fun night out with her friends and I called her sobbing that my relative just passed away she would be able to respond to that. I mean really If she wanted to have a fun night out with her friends I'd be invited in the first place, it's an entirely different dynamic of availability than being gone on a friday or saturday evening for "netflix and chill".

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 00:16

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

tuyop posted:

Maybe you should reconsider your unhealthy level of codependency?

I don't see how having a proper support network is really codependent?

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 00:21

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

tuyop posted:

Sorry, it just reads like, "if my girlfriend wasn't emotionally available at all times that would be a dealbreaker for me."

I mean, if she went to see a movie alone or was in another country or any number of situations when you can't just call, she would be equally absent and you'd have to call someone else, right? So there must be something else that gets you upset about the whole sleeping with others thing if you're not unhealthily codependent. It's fine to just find the whole thing icky, I guess, but this is the economic argument that nonmonogamous people consider. Your spouse is unavailable right now because they're doing something that they want or need to do without you. It's cool, be cool.

i guess where I see the differences is twofold:
1. Those are all things that people do regardless of relationship status, so going on dates would be in addition to that not instead of.
2. I'd be invited unless there was a scheduling conflict or it was work related, my girlfriend isn't going to go to a movie and be like "you can't come", I might opt not to go but that's different then it being a thing that inherently excludes me.

For example! My girlfriend is a professor and travels every so often for academic conferences. When she's going to interesting places she invites me, I have the option to use some of my vacation time and hang out with her in a cool place outside of the conference hours. The same goes when she travels to visit friends or family, I'm always invited. If she were instead traveling with boyfriend number 2, I would not be invited and would legitimately feel like a lower priority than boyfriend 2 for that duration.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 00:40

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

tuyop posted:

You guys know people managed to have trusting and loving relationships before cell phones were a thing, right? Humans can manage emotionally on their own for extended periods of time. We can do this. You guys sound like 14 year olds upset when their BFFs don't text back within 12 seconds.

It seems like your only argument hinges around you misrepresenting the point I'm making.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 00:41

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

tuyop posted:

Yeah ok, I understand. This is about your philosophy of love. It does sound a bit codependent anyway, but for different reasons. Your perception of how valuable you are as a spouse seems to hinge on how your partner prioritizes her time. Do you feel more worthwhile when she chooses to spend time with you than not? I don't mean missing her, I mean feeling second tier.

More worthwhile as a person? Not really, but it reinforces my faith in our relationship and the idea that I am an important person to her. It makes me feel content I guess. I think it's fair to say it's how I view love and I understand different people have different languages but obviously mines is right and theirs is just wrong. I just have trouble seeing how priorities don't reflect how much you care and I think it's pretty universal, plenty of people get jealous not just of people, but hobbies/work too, it ultimately boils down to not feeling valued or important to that person.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 00:57

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

nomadologique posted:

there is no manual that says "attention devoted to other partners is essentially different from attention devoted to non-partners" -- for some people it may be just as hurtful, or more hurtful, that their partner would commit time to work

You still aren't really getting the crux of my argument.

Say I spend on average 8 hours a day working, 8 hours a day sleeping, 1 hour a day exercising, 2 hours a day on hobbies/leisure, 2 hours a day on friends, and 3 hours a day on relationships. Whether you're single, mono, or poly, 21 hours of your 24 hour day is already taken up with life, leaving 3 hours for dedicated time with your partner(s). If you are mono, those 3 hours are with the same person, if you're poly those 3 hours are divided such that person A, B, so on, have some fraction of the 3 hours.

Unless you're suggesting that poly people are having additional partners instead of work/hobbies/friends, it's objectively less of a commitment to the person. Even if you assume such a thing, realistically most mono relationships include spending time together even when you're hanging out with friends or engaging in your hobbies, so there'd still be a gap in time available to commit to allegedly the love of your live.

Now if you were dating other people while they dated people you could essentially make up all that extra emotional intimacy you're missing out from one partner with others, but at the end of the day no two partners are going to be as dedicated or committed as in a mono relationship from an effort/time standpoint.

e: And you're acting like my examples are completely made up, they're not really. My girlfriend does invite me to tagalong when she goes to conferences, if she had multiple boyfriends that she treated equally it naturally follows that sometimes I would be invited and sometimes other boyfriends would be invited. Really the only thing you can't do with your boyfriend/girlfriend is spend time with another boyfriend/girlfriend, it's the only thing that naturally excludes your partner. Friends, hobbies, even work, are all stuff couples can do as a team.

ArbitraryC fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Sep 12, 2015

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 12:25

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

LethalGeek posted:

Rules are scrub tier and if you need them then you're doomed to failure. Watching a friend do this song and dance with her BF who keeps getting jealous for the reasons everyone thinks, which is a whole can of worms I won't go into here but yeah that's not gonna last. I've flat out said to her you sure he's cut out for this cause it sure doesn't sound like it. They're powering on anyway so I'm just sitting back watching the fireworks.

Sounds like kind of a lovely and abusive person. "I know I'm hurting my partner but I'm just going to ignore that because technically they did agree to this" is pretty bullshit. If you really care about someone sex shouldn't be worth making them obviously suffer.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2015 19:26

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

I wouldn't really say it's fair to compare poly/mono to a straight/gay situation because I think most people don't necessarily have a huge conceptual issue with the idea of stuff like swingers or whatever. The "stigma" against poly relationships largely comes from experience interacting with friends/acquaintances in them where it's pretty obvious to anyone on the outside that one person is basically being taken advantage of.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 16:18

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Like I know I already quoted this one last page but this is pretty much the perfect example

LethalGeek posted:

Rules are scrub tier and if you need them then you're doomed to failure. Watching a friend do this song and dance with her BF who keeps getting jealous for the reasons everyone thinks, which is a whole can of worms I won't go into here but yeah that's not gonna last. I've flat out said to her you sure he's cut out for this cause it sure doesn't sound like it. They're powering on anyway so I'm just sitting back watching the fireworks.

Anyone who cared about anyone other than themselves would go "hey this person I allegedly like/love is trying to do what he thinks is right and what makes me happy, but it's obviously causing him to suffer. I should either accept that lifestyle won't work with him or breakup".

And I mean yeah, he should admit he can't handle things and breakup too, but so should dv victims, emotional attachments are complicated and just cause someone isn't doing everything to get out of harms way doesn't mean it's okay or justified to keep hurting them.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 16:29

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Moridin920 posted:

idk why you keep insisting that this is a totally fake fantasy that doesn't work for anyone when there are in fact thriving swinger communities and poo poo. Not everyone has to fit inside a neat little box, you know. Some people just genuinely don't care about it.

Yeah most people trying to do it aren't made for it and it ends up in disaster but that doesn't mean it never works ever.

Swingers tbh sound like the best way for a poly situation to work, cause then it's something you enjoy together as a couple and doesn't involve dividing your emotional investment. I dunno if I'd really call that poly tho so much as non-monogamous.

I could also see some sort of free love commune being a thing, like if you had a culture where everybody hosed everybody and everyone just raised the kids together.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2015 16:58

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

Rutibex posted:

Hey guys, I really need some advice.

My wife and I decided to adventure into Poly, her really wanting it, and me wanting it because I could see how much she wanted to see what it was about.

When we started, we agreed on some likely intense guidelines because I was so scared of the idea, and our trepidatious adventure began. Now, about a month later, she has someone she is really intensely interested in, things are moving way faster than we agreed upon, and I�m trying not to beg her to wait because it�s too much for me right now.

The emotional stress involved for me is causing strains at work, I was walked outside today by my supervisor and given the most kind verbal warning one could imagine, letting me know that my work was getting unignorably worse and that things needed to shape up or the person I�m training may be my replacement.

I�d have felt frustrated about this anyway, but the only reason I have this job is because my wife is one year into her Bachelor�s degree and I�m paying for life in the meantime. If I lose my job, she loses her opportunity for a degree, we move away, and she is bitter toward me for who knows how long. Even though I have a relatively well paying job, our funds are so tight I only get one meal a day as it is.

When I got home I layed out what happened at work today, and the conversation was okay, but I don�t know what to say tomorrow. I don�t want to say something that feels like an ultimatum (I�m afraid I already did though), but at this point, until I�m kind of okay with this, it�s my job and her degree (which she really cares about) or poly. Which is asinine stupid, I know.

I don�t know why this is so hard on me. I mean, I know some elements. She�s my wife, the love of my life, (and all those other really cheesy things, that are crazily true) and until the day she went on her date with this other person, she said I was the love of hers. She was my first girlfriend, and I was her Love.

Now I�m trying to keep my job, trying to open communication with the person she�s interested in, and feeling my world fall apart.

What I�m feeling is that today, right now, I�m not okay with this. Someday, in a year or two, I could be. I�m barely holding it together, and I don�t know what to do. I want her to be okay, and be happy with her life, but if I lose my job over this, everything falls apart for her too.

I�ve asked her to slow down before this issue and she�s responded with an emphatic no. She says that it�s now a part of who she is and she can�t stop for me. Maybe someone can explain that to me� It hurts too much when she explains it for me to truly understand.

I want her to be okay and experience whatever in the world she wants to. I want us to be okay, and long term I don�t know what will happen, but short term we�re not going to be okay unless one of us can figure out some mutually acceptable balance.

I feel like I�m the villain here. Every communication from the other guy involved has felt incredibly hostile (I can�t tell if I�m projecting, but a lot of what I do for work involves reading people via written words and as such I have some practice).

When all this began, I read More than Two, and it was great while this was all theoretical. I was beginning to find some peace with it all as a lifestyle, before everything happened all within a month.

I don�t even have a question I know how to ask. I just want us to turn out okay and for her to be happy. Please, does anyone have any wisdom? Does anyone know how to help?

I like how most of the responses boil down to "it may be causing you to suffer a ton but it wouldn't be fair to her to deny her right to sleep around", what selfish sociopaths. You don't keep doing something you know is hurting the alleged love of your life because it's fun, you stop hurting them.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 22:29

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 13:32

ArbitraryC: Jan 28, 2009; Pick a number, any number; Pillbug

"The fact is, although love is not a limited resource, and that is the beauty of polyamory, time and attention are limited resources. It's never going to be perfect, and it doesn't make sense for us to idealize the poly lifestyle. It has its downsides. But on the whole, it's worth it."

This paragraph just doesn't compute for me, how can you with a straight face say love is an infinite resource then in the next breath admit that attention and time aren't. Do these people truly believe that investing half the time, energy, and affection into an individual partner than a mono person does is investing the same amount of 'love'? My partner telling me they love me is nice and all but what's even nicer than that is my partner showing me they love me by spending time with me or doing nice stuff for me. Actions speak louder than words and actions are all the result of time and attention.

# ¿ Oct 9, 2015 23:10

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