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XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
theyre just sad that the minimum wage doesnt outweigh iraq afghanistan extraordinary rendition indefinite detention without trial etc etc and now people think tony blair is a bit of a oval office who should have stayed dead instead of shambling round like a zombie groaning about LEFFFTIIEEEESSSS

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steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
I still don't understand why the Labourists elected Wallace as their leader after the previous elections. I mean, even Gordon Brown was leagues above Ed "Bacon Sandwich" Miliband in terms of charisma, experience and overall credibility.

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

FUCK YOU HITLER
STALINGRAD
ROFLMFAO
The tories won second reading of the Trade Union Bill which would cripple the power of unions in the uk for years to come.
But the battle isn't over yet and Corbyn is a man of the people so fingers crossed it'll get nay'ed the gently caress outta town.

https://www.tuc.org.uk/union-issues/trade-union-bill/campaign-against-trade-union-bill-far-over-says-tuc

SirEvelynTremble
Dec 25, 2013

FUCK YOU HITLER
STALINGRAD
ROFLMFAO

"scriptonite daily" posted:

A quick scan of social media and mainstream news sources today should alert you to the fact that the war against Jeremy Corbyn and his hew front bench has already begun. This is because the permanent political class are freaking out over Corbyn’s win and how it imperils their grip on power. Here is how.

Over with the Labour establishment, their reaction was best captured by the purge, scaremongering and refusal to work with a Corbyn front bench.

The reason Labour had a new leadership election process this time round, was the result of the parliamentary Labour Party and the NEC long term efforts to diminish the power of Trade Unions. By widening the vote to Labour voters, and quieting the voice of Trade Unions, the Blairite factions of the party gambled on those new voters being to the right of the Unions.

But they got a shock. It turned out that many were actually well to the left, and ready to take a chance on a social democrat like Corbyn. So, the Party responded to those new supporters as ‘infiltrators’.

This was a bizarre move, because if Labour don’t win back these voters, they are sunk in 2020. Labour need to win an extra 106 seats next election to gain a majority, an almost impossible task. But that almost impossible task becomes totally impossible without a mass, popular movement to reengage the public. Just 24% of people voted Conservative in the last election, 76% didn’t. The largest gains went to socially democratic populists the SNP, who killed Labour in Scotland. The biggest losers were the Liberal Democrats, the only ‘centrist’ party in town.

So why would the Parliamentary Labour Party NOT want to harness the power of a populist, social democratic movement? Especially when it is the only chance they have of regaining office in 2020.

It is becoming ever more clear that the Labour Party in Westminster has become a part of a permanent political class alongside their Tory and Liberal Democrat counterparts. Disengagement and voter apathy means a fairly stable job, a few seats lost and won either way each election and no big surprises. The chance to earn a great wage and pass policies which guarantee lucrative consultancy/director roles after politics. All done with the passive acceptance of a disaffected electorate, half of whom don’t even bother to vote anymore. To this permanent political class, a popular movement based on social democratic values is about as welcome as a fart in an elevator.

This is why Harriet Harman planned to cull over 100,000so-called ‘infiltrators’ from the vote. This is why self-appointed voice-of-the-left Polly Toynbee, the Guardian editorial team, and most of the press (right and liberal) were busily character assassinating Corbyn and anyone who would give him their vote.

But despite all efforts, Corbyn won with a greater landslide in 2015, than Blair did in 1994. The ‘unelectable’ Corbyn galvanized a thumping majority against a hostile media, commentariat and even parliamentary party.

How did the conservative permanent political class respond? They freaked out. This freak out is best summed up by this near-hysterical tweet by Prime Minister David Cameron.

How did the public respond to the Corbyn win?

Over 15,000 people joined the Labour Party within 24 hours, and they’re still joining. This is significant. Back in 2011, political party membership in the UK was at an all time low; just 0.8% of eligible adults in the UK were members of political parties, versus 3.8% in 1983. But while general membership was in decline, membership of ‘other’ parties was on a steep rise. This was a signpost that perhaps the problem was not the apathy of the public to politics, but the apathy of the political class to the aspirations and values of the public.

But since the No Vote in Scotland, the rise of the SNP and Greens north of the border, and the victory of Corbyn – large sections of the public are reengaging with the political system again in ways not witnessed for decades.

Between 2002 and 2013, the SNP membership grew to just over 20,000. In the two year since, it rocketed to well over 100,000.

With it’s freshly-arrived members, the Labour Party now has around 290,000 members – more than the Conservatives (134,000), Liberal Democrats (61,000) and Green’s (60,000) combined.

Furthermore, it appears that Jeremy Corbyn and his front bench plan to galvanize the power of this membership to bring democracy into policy making. In short, it looks like Labour members will be supporting policy development in a way unheard of by mainstream parties before now. This would remove the power of the front bench and parliamentary party to act against the will of the membership – this should empower Corbyn’s team to drive through the radical social democratic policies he has in mind.

In short, there is now a distinct possibility not only that a truly progressive, social democrat Labour Party could win in 2020, but worse, that they could topple an unpopular Tory government even before then. An unconstrained Labour Party with Corbyn at its head, and John McDonnell as shadow Chancellor could deliver the sort of coordinated opposition, uniting with workers and their unions, disenfranchised groups and their campaign groups – to start landing big punches now. The sorts of actions that Blue Labour would never take, could now be back on the table. There could be general strikes, there could be mass rallies utilising the full power of these groups, there could be the kind of concerted, unrelenting uproar that tore the Tory Party apart in the early 1990’s.

The permanent political class is freaking out because the only thing that can beat out Project Fear, is Project Hope. A Tory-lite Labour opposition was never going to win in 2020, but an energetic and awakened Labour movement can. Even worse, if they do win, there is a very real chance that the domestic and foreign policy of Britain could change in a truly radical way. We could be a few years away from the most progressive government since Clement Attlee’s post-WWII government delivered the NHS, a national education system, nationalised transport and energy, and rolled out the biggest social housing programme in our history. This is an electoral choice that the UK hasn’t had the opportunity to make in decades.

The permanent political class is facing the most real and present threat to their power since 1979. They are going to throw every weapon in their armory at ensuring that doesn’t happen. But none of those weapons is more powerful than a tight-knit, grass roots movement with its eye on shared vision of an inspiring future.



School Nickname
Apr 23, 2010

*fffffff-fffaaaaaaarrrtt*
:ussr:
loving lol at the 45+ year old UK goons in this thread loving terrified out of their minds that someone will tax their wealth.

You fucks need to learn how to pay your taxes again. Reeducation camps at HMRC offices.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

School Nickname posted:

loving lol at the 45+ year old UK goons in this thread loving terrified out of their minds that someone will tax their wealth.

You fucks need to learn how to pay your taxes again. Reeducation camps at HMRC offices.

Their wealth of living in a 30 m2 hovel with no AC, no garage and peeling wallpapers.

Mc Do Well
Aug 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO59ITNCxzk

It's the dream

afraid of waking

that never

takes the chance

Medieval Medic
Sep 8, 2011

steinrokkan posted:

Their wealth of living in a 30 m2 hovel with no AC, no garage and peeling wallpapers.

Guess they shouldn't have elected Tory scum then.

School Nickname
Apr 23, 2010

*fffffff-fffaaaaaaarrrtt*
:ussr:

steinrokkan posted:

Their wealth of living in a 30 m2 hovel with no AC, no garage and peeling wallpapers.

"But the London market will only ever go up!"

Hector Beerlioz
Jun 16, 2010

aw, hec
Good think I live in the USA where nothing like this will ever happen.

spud
Aug 27, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
You guys have a much lower population density and a much stricter immigration policy.

Outside of places like New York and SF, you generally have much more space to live and work. Also, it's easier to just get away from people.

fuck the ROW
Aug 29, 2008

by zen death robot
Whats this thread about? Does anyone know? Where's euripe... exactly? could you find it on a map?

Segata Sanshiro
Sep 10, 2011

we can live for nothing
baby i don't care

lose me like the ocean
feel the motion

:coolfish:

spud posted:

You guys have a much lower population density and a much stricter immigration policy.

Outside of places like New York and SF, you generally have much more space to live and work. Also, it's easier to just get away from people.

if you need a lil lebensraum just take it, that's how america started out after all :haw:

spud
Aug 27, 2003

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Feranon posted:

if you need a lil lebensraum just take it, that's how america started out after all :haw:

um.....?

ok, I will have 2?

e: Eh, googled it....
That's not the point at all.

spud fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Sep 15, 2015

boom boom boom
Jun 28, 2012

by Shine

spud posted:

um.....?

ok, I will have 2?

e: Eh, googled it....
That's not the point at all.

You had to google "Lebensraum"?

d3c0y2
Sep 29, 2009

boom boom boom posted:

You had to google "Lebensraum"?

The Failing Western School System.

Ichabod Tane
Oct 30, 2005

A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.


https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4
What the gently caress is a shadow cabinet?

The Saurus
Dec 3, 2006

by Smythe

Blacktoll posted:

What the gently caress is a shadow cabinet?

Fake jobs that Corbyn can give to twats to make them support him while he institutes false communism.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
the UK's population is like LA, NYC, Dallas, Houston, and Chicago metro areas.

pfff

Mugsbaloney
Jul 11, 2012

We prefer your extinction to the loss of our job

bluewedge posted:

loving lol at all the cuckmunists crawling out of the woodwork to support this worm

whatever, itll be way easier to know who you are this way

Cuckmunist yeah mate you loving nailed it

COPE 27
Sep 11, 2006



Working men of all countries unite!

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!
Ultra Carp

rezatahs posted:

you sure typed some stuff

Wtf is this unfunny retard trash thread

Dont bother answering me, im not gonna read it

Serotonin
Jul 14, 2001

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of *blank*

boom boom boom posted:

You had to google "Lebensraum"?

You've clearly not read his posts before.

ContinuityNewTimes
Dec 30, 2010

Я выдуман напрочь

The Saurus posted:

Fake jobs that Corbyn can give to twats to make them support him while he institutes false communism.

lmao u salty lil bitch

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Today the telegraph continued its descent into being a tabloid shitrag by denouncing all the shadow cabinet as lunatics and nutjobs before claiming corbyn wants to sell the nukes to Russia. RIP. Also the latest Tory scare video literally comes off as something made by Putin to denounce the west, it's absolutely insane.

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
is that the black and white one, frankly i was disappointed by the lack of sinister piano music or freeze frames with a voiceover telling you that JEREMY CORBYN WANTS TO NATIONALISE YOUR DOG

where're the production values i ask you

e: i rewatched it and theres some sinister music but i was thinking more like psycho or the jaws theme tbh

Kitchner
Nov 9, 2012

IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER
Clapping Larry
Lol at these morons still hating on Blair as if it was still 2007.

Yeah Iraq was a total gently caress up, but let's remember New Labour:

- Introduced the minimum wage
- Introduced the Human Rights Act
- Introduced the Freedom of Information Act
- Reduced unemployment to record low figures
- Massively increased funding to public services which resulted in more doctors, nurses, and teachers etc per person
- Banned fox hunting
- Scrapped the majority of hereditary peers in the House of Lords
- Introduced devolution so that Wales and Scotland had more say over how they were run
- Massively reduced child poverty
- Signed the Good Friday peace agreement with the IRA leading to 18 years of relative peace (though it may be coming undone now no fault of those at the time)
- And let's not forget locked the Tories out of government for 13 years


But you know, ignore all those things and call him a Tory because of Iraq and tuition fees. What a right wing bastard he was!

Kitchner
Nov 9, 2012

IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER
Clapping Larry
Also lol at whoever said they would prefer an unelectable left wing party than Tory lite. You're literally saying you'd rather live the rest of your life under the party who is scrapping the human rights act, letting people die in order to save money on benefits bills, and legislating trade unions to the point they are illegal rather than acknowledge the left needs to acquire the votes of the centre ground to win elections in this country.

Pound_Coin
Feb 5, 2004
£


Kitchner posted:

Also lol at whoever said they would prefer an unelectable left wing party than Tory lite. You're literally saying you'd rather live the rest of your life under the party who is scrapping the human rights act, letting people die in order to save money on benefits bills, and legislating trade unions to the point they are illegal rather than acknowledge the left needs to acquire the votes of the centre ground to win elections in this country.

So what you're saying is that the Labour party should court swing voters in marginal seats with tory lite policies like they did and utterly failed at during the last election and continue to ignore the fact that they lost millions of votes to the greens (A more left wing party than them) and lost the entirety of Scotland to the SNP (again a party more left wing then than them) AND ignore the tripling of Labour party supporters (STILL a massive increase even once you'e purged out all the "entryists" and "sabotaging tories") over the last 6 months or so.

Also ignore the whole tory policies are literally tearing the social fabric of this country apart thing.

:toot:

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

Kitchner posted:

Also lol at whoever said they would prefer an unelectable left wing party than Tory lite. You're literally saying you'd rather live the rest of your life under the party who is scrapping the human rights act, letting people die in order to save money on benefits bills, and legislating trade unions to the point they are illegal rather than acknowledge the left needs to acquire the votes of the centre ground to win elections in this country.

yeah just lol @ them, they're the reason for all of England's problems

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

Just keep doing what wasn't working before imo

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy

Kitchner posted:

But you know, ignore all those things and call him a Tory because of Iraq and tuition fees. What a right wing bastard he was!

loving lol

The Middle East will not recover from the Iraq War, but that's okay, because British were well-off under Blair

This is why we call Blairites tory lite.

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

In the CaNaDa thread someone posted about how jobless and soon to be jobless rig pigs are blaming the provincial NDP government for the price of oil dropping even though it started almost a year before they got into office

What I'm saying is people are dumb as poo poo and believe in a Socialism Boogeyman because the only time they engage in political discussion is when their supervisor regurgitates talking points from his boss about how their working conditions are getting worse

Kitchner
Nov 9, 2012

IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER
Clapping Larry

Pound_Coin posted:

So what you're saying is that the Labour party should court swing voters in marginal seats with tory lite policies like they did and utterly failed at during the last election and continue to ignore the fact that they lost millions of votes to the greens (A more left wing party than them) and lost the entirety of Scotland to the SNP (again a party more left wing then than them) AND ignore the tripling of Labour party supporters (STILL a massive increase even once you'e purged out all the "entryists" and "sabotaging tories") over the last 6 months or so.

Also ignore the whole tory policies are literally tearing the social fabric of this country apart thing.

:toot:


Firstly Labour was not Tory lite in the last election, it had a lot of relatively left wing policies.

It proposed capping energy bills, banning right to buy mortgages, increase the top rate of tax, tax properties worth over £2m, ban zero hours contracts, raise the minimum wage, crack down on tax evasion and avoidance, repealing the bedroom tax, and ending privatisation in the NHS.

If you think these aren't left wing policies I'm not really sure what to say.

So the idea that Labour had all these Tory lite policies in the last election is wrong.

What they DID do is capitulate to the Tories on some keys issues such as immigration. Instead of doing what a successful party would have done, which is challenge to Tory rhetoric on immigration like Yvette Cooper did when she called Cameron a coward for not accepting more refugees, they just agreed and went along with it.

In terms of the economy even Corbyn has said he wants to eliminate the deficit, he just wants to do it with massively left wing policies. Labour said it wanted to do it with center left/left wing policies too, and they didn't get elected.

In terms of Scotland you really are mad if you think that could have gone any differently. The SNP played the three main parties like a fiddle during the Scottish referendum and they backed the government into an unwinnable position. On top of that because the polls looked so close, the SNP went around saying the best way for the Scots to influence UK policy was to be in a Labour/SNP coalition which failed to materialise because Labour didn't win enough ENGLISH seats. Even if Labour won every single SNP seat in Scotland, it still would have been the opposition.

Now the Scots have realised that Scotland gets more ridiculous deals like the Barnett formula being safeguarded the more the SNP are in control, why would they vote for anyone else?

Labour being left wing won't bring back many more SNP seats, but it will probably mean it loses English ones and Nicolas Sturgeon has already said if Labour can't win elections, then independent Scotland is the only choice for those not wanting to live under perpetual Tory rule. They are already planning a second referendum, which they will probably win.

Your point about losing votes to the greens is pretty funny, because how many seats did Labour lose to the Greens again? Oh yeah none, because the FPP system doesn't give a poo poo if you get loads of votes nationwide, you need to get them in the right seats. UKIP is a great example of this, 15% of the popular vote and 2 seats. So who cares if Labour lost hard left votes to the Greens when that's so spread out it doesn't effect election results. The hard left is a minority in this country and always will be.

So yeah the idea Labour lost because they are Tory lite and the idea that Scotland is something we can win back are daft ideas. Scotland is lost to the nationalists now, there's no way of getting it back.

No one in any of those English marginals voted Tory instead of Labour because Labour wasn't left wing enough. They voted Tory because they weren't confident in Labour's economic plans, they were concerned about the SNP having an influence over UK policy, and because Labour had allowed the Tory party to dominate the public debate meaning they either had to agree with Tory policy or be branded clueless by the media (which is then believed by the public).

Corbyn isn't going to win an election, he's going to ensure the Tories get at least another 5 years of loving the British people over.

lol but
Feb 24, 2007

body is a dinosaur
Slippery Tilde
Is there any evidence that the Blair-Brown strategy will work 20 years later with everyone wise to the trick?

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ

Kitchner posted:

No one in any of those English marginals voted Tory instead of Labour because Labour wasn't left wing enough. They voted Tory because they weren't confident in Labour's economic plans, they were concerned about the SNP having an influence over UK policy, and because Labour had allowed the Tory party to dominate the public debate meaning they either had to agree with Tory policy or be branded clueless by the media (which is then believed by the public).

Or they just didn't vote.

Pound_Coin
Feb 5, 2004
£


If Labour do not challenge current austerity policies and the myth that they created the financial crash and deficit by overspending then they may as well not exist.

poo poo is all hosed up, but this is a tiny glimmer of hope, common man, let us have this :unsmith:

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

Kitchner posted:

Firstly Labour was not Tory lite in the last election, it had a lot of relatively left wing policies.

It proposed capping energy bills, banning right to buy mortgages, increase the top rate of tax, tax properties worth over £2m, ban zero hours contracts, raise the minimum wage, crack down on tax evasion and avoidance, repealing the bedroom tax, and ending privatisation in the NHS.

If you think these aren't left wing policies I'm not really sure what to say.

So the idea that Labour had all these Tory lite policies in the last election is wrong.

What they DID do is capitulate to the Tories on some keys issues such as immigration. Instead of doing what a successful party would have done, which is challenge to Tory rhetoric on immigration like Yvette Cooper did when she called Cameron a coward for not accepting more refugees, they just agreed and went along with it.

In terms of the economy even Corbyn has said he wants to eliminate the deficit, he just wants to do it with massively left wing policies. Labour said it wanted to do it with center left/left wing policies too, and they didn't get elected.

In terms of Scotland you really are mad if you think that could have gone any differently. The SNP played the three main parties like a fiddle during the Scottish referendum and they backed the government into an unwinnable position. On top of that because the polls looked so close, the SNP went around saying the best way for the Scots to influence UK policy was to be in a Labour/SNP coalition which failed to materialise because Labour didn't win enough ENGLISH seats. Even if Labour won every single SNP seat in Scotland, it still would have been the opposition.

Now the Scots have realised that Scotland gets more ridiculous deals like the Barnett formula being safeguarded the more the SNP are in control, why would they vote for anyone else?

Labour being left wing won't bring back many more SNP seats, but it will probably mean it loses English ones and Nicolas Sturgeon has already said if Labour can't win elections, then independent Scotland is the only choice for those not wanting to live under perpetual Tory rule. They are already planning a second referendum, which they will probably win.

Your point about losing votes to the greens is pretty funny, because how many seats did Labour lose to the Greens again? Oh yeah none, because the FPP system doesn't give a poo poo if you get loads of votes nationwide, you need to get them in the right seats. UKIP is a great example of this, 15% of the popular vote and 2 seats. So who cares if Labour lost hard left votes to the Greens when that's so spread out it doesn't effect election results. The hard left is a minority in this country and always will be.

So yeah the idea Labour lost because they are Tory lite and the idea that Scotland is something we can win back are daft ideas. Scotland is lost to the nationalists now, there's no way of getting it back.

No one in any of those English marginals voted Tory instead of Labour because Labour wasn't left wing enough. They voted Tory because they weren't confident in Labour's economic plans, they were concerned about the SNP having an influence over UK policy, and because Labour had allowed the Tory party to dominate the public debate meaning they either had to agree with Tory policy or be branded clueless by the media (which is then believed by the public).

Corbyn isn't going to win an election, he's going to ensure the Tories get at least another 5 years of loving the British people over.

lol

Professor Shark
May 22, 2012

Look at all these words in GBS




Just say "No gently caress you!" and be done with it and go back to your job as Anonymous Confessions Thread Commentator

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BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy

Kitchner posted:

Also lol at whoever said they would prefer an unelectable left wing party than Tory lite. You're literally saying you'd rather live the rest of your life under the party who is scrapping the human rights act, letting people die in order to save money on benefits bills, and legislating trade unions to the point they are illegal rather than acknowledge the left needs to acquire the votes of the centre ground to win elections in this country.

So the British people will be treated like they've treated the rest of the world? Sounds about right.

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