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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Vincent and the Doctor

I named it what it should have been called :colbert:

Also I hosed up :sweatdrop:

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PantsOptional
Dec 27, 2012

All I wanna do is make you bounce
Vincent on Varos

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

PantsOptional posted:

Vincent on Varos

Some say that it's a classic!

Train Surgeon
Jan 14, 2012
What the Christmas special about entering dreams should have been called : Vinception

IceAgeComing
Jan 29, 2013

pretty fucking embarrassing to watch
The Talons of Vincent

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
In non-Vincent news, I've started The Lost Stories and.. man, is it jarring to hear Season 22-style dialogue coming out of Big Finish. Even Colin Baker, The Elevator of Material, can't work with Colin Baker stories. :smith:

I remember just enough from reading the Target novelization of The Vince Nightmare Fair in middle school to know they're following the original script pretty faithfully.

EDIT - Faithfully? FAITHFULLY?! FAITHFULLY?!!

repeat ad nauseum

And More
Jun 19, 2013

How far, Doctor?
How long have you lived?

After The War posted:

In non-Vincent news, I've started The Lost Stories and.. man, is it jarring to hear Season 22-style dialogue coming out of Big Finish. Even Colin Baker, The Elevator of Material, can't work with Colin Baker stories. :smith:

I remember just enough from reading the Target novelization of The Vince Nightmare Fair in middle school to know they're following the original script pretty faithfully.

EDIT - Faithfully? FAITHFULLY?! FAITHFULLY?!!

repeat ad nauseum

I quite enjoyed Leviathan, Point of Entry and The Macros. The Hollows of Time were a bit hard to follow, and everything else ended up being just a bit boring. They really should do another Humble Bundle.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

IceAgeComing posted:

The Talons of Vin-C-Ent

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Jerusalem posted:

I named it what it should have been called :colbert:

Also I hosed up :sweatdrop:

Eh, what's the use of a good episode title if you can't change it?

McDragon
Sep 11, 2007

Sam Swift was Rufus Hound? That's why he looked familiar.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to
I wonder if they have so many evil women on the show so the audience goes "I bet that's the Rani!".

Or for older Who fans, "Oh god i hope that's not the Rani".

Of all the old things from Who to bring back, The Eye of Harmony comes back. Bet the Doctor has the Hand of Omega stashed in the bin.

twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Oct 30, 2015

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: The 5th Doctor and Nyssa try to prevent the Dalek Emperor from becoming his own grandfather.

Long Synopsis: The 5th Doctor and Nyssa land in America during the early days of The Dalek Invasion of Earth, and then end up on Skaro in the far future. An unpleasant alliance of Thals and Daleks are attempting to end "the Mutant Phase", an infection spreading through the Dalek race and destroying their "purity" as well as putting the rest of the universe at risk. The Dalek Emperor attempts to puppetmaster the Doctor who reminds everybody in the end why he is a Time LORD. Various supporting characters come and go and have little to no impact on the story.

What's Good:
  • The threat. While we're long used to hearing about universe ending threats, the Mutants at least are a believable one. Combining elements of the Dalek creatures with earth-origin wasps it is easy to believe these creatures could become a relentless if mindless (and therefore scarier?) swarm of destruction - effectively a more successful/horrifying version of the metal eating sting-rays from the awful Planet of the Dead. It makes sense that differences would be put aside to deal with this greater threat, and that these unholy alliances in turn make the threat feel scarier. The Thals and the Daleks working together? The Doctor and the Dalek Emperor agreeing to work together on a mission? Only a great threat could bring these disparate elements together, and the Mutants are believable as that threat.

  • The continuity. At first it seems that the Doctor's brief trip to 22nd Century Earth is for nothing more than a casual nod towards the classic Hartnell story from the second season of the classic series. But it comes together in the final episode as the 5th Doctor and Dalek forces from the future run head-on into these 22nd Century Daleks. Getting to hear these old-school Daleks at first angrily dismiss and later struggle to understand the convoluted future history of their dealings with the Doctor is a lot of fun, especially when commonly accepted technological feats we're all too familiar with as viewers are dropped on these Daleks. The best is when the 22nd Century Daleks insist that Time Travel is impossible, and become furious when informed that early research into crude time travel is currently taking place on Skaro (referencing The Chase). The Dalek screaming,"YOU KNOW NOTHING OF SKARO!" to a much better informed Dalek agent that has just arrived FROM Skaro is kinda hilarious. The Doctor's wry comment about the Daleks being aggravating to deal with to this agent is also great, considering their identity.

  • The resolution. One of the worst kind of stories are when a resolution comes out of nowhere, introducing new information at the last second to explain everything away. This story makes a point of introducing right from the start the sense that something is wrong with time, and throughout every episode the Doctor is constantly troubled by the sense that he's missing something, pointing out little things that are concerning him. By the end of the story when he has everything figured out, his shouted explanation as he seeks to prevent total destruction all play-off these earlier elements to bring everything together. It's also a bit of fun to hear the Doctor discussing time paradoxes so soon after viewing Before the Flood from Season 9 of the revival, and comparing the 12th Doctor's explanation to Clara with the 5th Doctor's explanation to Nyssa. This is helped immensely by Peter Davison being such a likable person, as he could have easily come across as condescending or smug. Instead, his explanation feels almost bemused, as he reacts to Nyssa's exasperated (but friendly) accusation that he thinks he sounds clever, and he replies happily that he thinks he just might!

What's Not:

  • The supporting characters. While the cast is relatively small, almost all of the supporting characters are almost entirely inconsequential to the actual story, and serve more as time-fillers than having any actual significant bearing on the plot. One character seemingly only exists to provide background information to the Doctor, and while that is fine, that is ALL they do, and are almost immediately killed afterwards as they no longer serve any narrative purpose. Worse are the male and female human who briefly separate the Doctor and Nyssa, they feel like holdovers from an early draft, they provide nothing to the story at all and are quickly removed from it. They're eccentric and somewhat tragic figures who remind me of Uncle and Aunty from The Doctor's Wife, but those two at least had a purpose in providing both exposition and a practical example of the kind of callous treatment Amy and Rory could expect at House's "hands". These two could maybe be argued as showing the human cost of the plague of the Mutants rolling across the universe, but the exposition character served that role already, as did the Thals, and it's not helped that neither the male or the female are particularly pleasant people.

  • The settings. The story is in four parts, but the actual story is pretty thin. So it's not helped that it jumps from setting to setting far too quickly, never really giving the characters a chance to settle down. In four episodes the Doctor and Nyssa go from the TARDIS to 22nd Century Earth to 43rd Century Skaro back to the TARDIS back to 22nd Century Earth back to the TARDIS. This could work if the pacing was handled well, but unfortunately in this case it isn't. Things either feel rushed or drag on too long, and where it is rushed is where the bulk of the supporting characters are to be found. Sticking to one or two central settings and allowing them time to be developed could have helped, but really this was a pacing issue that should have been handled early in the scripting process, rather than being left to be dealt with during editing.

  • "There's a thing but I can't tell you about that thing right now!" Syndrome. Throughout the story, the Doctor frequently references being troubled by various things, and muses on the possibility of what this means temporally. While an explanation is eventually given, there is an unfortunate habit throughout the story of the Doctor loudly exclaiming about some particular thing and then refusing to tell Nyssa any more about it. It's helped by a later scene where the Doctor rather sadly explains why there are certain things he has to keep from her, revealing an inner loneliness that is perhaps self-imposed, as for the reasons he gives (amongst others) the Doctor can never truly be as close/open with a "human" companion as he might like. But it makes for a frustrating experience to hear the Doctor declare,"Oh <x> is interesting it might mean..... well I can't say right now, I'll let you all know at the end of the story!"

Final Thoughts:

Suffering from too much variation in setting, The Mutant Phase takes an interesting concept and loses it amongst a number of ultimately unimportant side characters/subplots. Simultaneously jamming too much in while not really doing anything/going anywhere with it all, the resolution of the story feels unfortunately pat and far too simplistic, even if things are tied up with a mostly neat bow. Time, continuity, and cause and effect run as important elements throughout the entire story and form the backbone that should hold the episodes together. But it all feels too muddled and very slightly smug in the end, trying to be perhaps a little more clever than it has earned. The final lines are saved by Davison's likability - as voiced by Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy they would probably have come across smug. McGann could maybe have pulled it off, but Davison makes it work in a way that they couldn't - this isn't a story you could just slot any other Doctor into, it very much feels like a 5th Doctor story (I mean hey, most everybody dies!).

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

twistedmentat posted:

Bet the Doctor has the Hand of Omega stashed in the bin.

Where else is he going to keep it?

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!
I'm late to the party, but how did no one say The Vincent who lived? That's the story that should've been told :colbert:.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Rhyno posted:

Where else is he going to keep it?

Hang it over the fireplace? I mean, give it a dignified resting place.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



McDragon posted:

Sam Swift was Rufus Hound? That's why he looked familiar.

He's also in Nov's Early Adventure, "The Black Hole"

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

twistedmentat posted:

I wonder if they have so many evil women on the show so the audience goes "I bet that's the Rani!".

Or for older Who fans, "Oh god i hope that's not the Rani".

Of all the old things from Who to bring back, The Eye of Harmony comes back. Bet the Doctor has the Hand of Omega stashed in the bin.

The worst thing about The Rani was Pip and Jane. As a character concept I think there's plenty of mileage in her as long as we don't have to put up with that horrendous writing.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



Fil5000 posted:

The worst thing about The Rani was Pip and Jane. As a character concept I think there's plenty of mileage in her as long as we don't have to put up with that horrendous writing.

BF's Planet of the Rani was really good. Siobhan Redmond is a fantastic Rani.

Cruel Rose
May 27, 2010

saaave gotham~
come on~
DO IT, BATMAN
FUCKING BATMAN I FUCKING HATE YOU
Six: I'd have thought Star Wars a bit old hat for you, Flip?
Flip: Me? No, I love Jar-Jar!
Six: ...Oh.



(The Last Adventure is really good)

The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."
Oh my god. I'm playing Lego Dimensions and I've just got to the Doctor Who levels. The Doctor hands Wyldstyle his phone number and you can just make out for a moment that it's his calling card from Remembrance. This game. :allears:

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Cruel Rose posted:

Six: I'd have thought Star Wars a bit old hat for you, Flip?
Flip: Me? No, I love Jar-Jar!
Six: ...Oh.



(The Last Adventure is really good)

The Flip one's great but you are gonna be disappointed by Part 4, I fear.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

The_Doctor posted:

Oh my god. I'm playing Lego Dimensions and I've just got to the Doctor Who levels. The Doctor hands Wyldstyle his phone number and you can just make out for a moment that it's his calling card from Remembrance. This game. :allears:

I hope years from now when they've mined it for all the money they can they release the whole lot on PC so I can actually play it :mad:

Also I initially read that as Wildthyme and though Big Finish had gotten in on the Lego action :xd:

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to
I want the Doctor Who set just to have it. I am resisting buying it, well its hard not to resist considering i'm unemployed still.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

The_Doctor posted:

Oh my god. I'm playing Lego Dimensions and I've just got to the Doctor Who levels. The Doctor hands Wyldstyle his phone number and you can just make out for a moment that it's his calling card from Remembrance. This game. :allears:

I have close to all the Lego games to date but I'm not buying into Dimensions. $100 for the base game and then $15-$35 for add on sets? gently caress that noise. As above, if they'd release just the game portions without the toys I'd probably bite.

Pesky Splinter
Feb 16, 2011

A worried pug.
I don't think it's been posted before, but there's some magazine subscription thing producing hard-back books covering the making and history of the episodes;


They normally cover at least two stories and go into various publicity, behind-the-scenes, and other stuff. They're nicely chunky, usually at around 150 pages, and nicely presented. Downside, it's £10 ($18ish) per issue, and American's don't get any of the freebie stuff for subscription (I'm sure the loss of tacky Doctor Who wallet or Thermos is devastating).

Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 31, 2015

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor
Okay, terrible dialogue aside, I've gotten to the extras and Graham Williams' son talking about seeing The Nightmare Fair finally recorded is totally :3:. His father must have died when he was really young, and he mentions reading the novelization (published only a year before Williams' death) so it seems like this story has always been a connection to a parent he never knew.

Ms Boods
Mar 19, 2009

Did you ever wonder where the Romans got bread from? It wasn't from Waitrose!

Pesky Splinter posted:

I don't think it's been posted before, but there's some magazine subscription thing producing hard-back books covering the making and history of the episodes;


They normally cover at least two stories and go into various publicity, behind-the-scenes, and other stuff. They're nicely chunky, usually at around 150 pages, and nicely presented. Downside, it's £10 ($18ish) per issue, and American's don't get any of the freebie stuff for subscription (I'm sure the loss of tacky Doctor Who wallet or Thermos is devastating).

I wonder if it's poss to get any of them separately, as I do'nt want to subscribe to everything; I'm currently working on a chapter that includes stuff about The Romans, and would be curious to see what tidbits are included (I've been in the Archive and messed about with the production files and that, but sometimes you get extra goodies about the actors and production from new interviews and stuff).

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Rhyno posted:

I have close to all the Lego games to date but I'm not buying into Dimensions. $100 for the base game and then $15-$35 for add on sets? gently caress that noise. As above, if they'd release just the game portions without the toys I'd probably bite.

It makes you wish there was just a straight up Lego Doctor Who Game.

All those games, Skylanders, Amibo, Infinity all are the same, at least the Lego one has building lego stuff added on.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I thought it was gonna be Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee :sweatdrop:

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Jerusalem posted:

I thought it was gonna be Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee :sweatdrop:

Same

Meanwhile, NERDS

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Anyone who doesnt turn keytones off on their phone deserves to be murdered by shapechanging aliens to be honest.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

SiKboy posted:

Anyone who doesnt turn keytones off on their phone deserves to be murdered by shapechanging aliens to be honest.

Tough. But fair.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
"poo poo's bad, yo" flashes the TARDIS at the Doctor while he's practising his guitar

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

THERE'S Hartnell.

Edit: I hope those are legit just a couple of little girls.

Edit Edit: Welp!

So it's basically Zygon Isis.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 31, 2015

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
That's a bit on the nose for me

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
"I know how to move this episode along, write Clara like an absolute moron"

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

That's a bit on the nose for me

Yeah, it's a little unsettling really.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Jeez episode, do you want to outright state your themes again in case anyone might have missed them?

MrL_JaKiri posted:

"I know how to move this episode along, write Clara like an absolute moron"

That is entirely in character for Clara; Absolute moron, terrible teacher.

Edit; And here is the beheading video just to make sure no-one has missed what they are going for.

SiKboy fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 31, 2015

Staggy
Mar 20, 2008

Said little bitch, you can't fuck with me if you wanted to
These expensive
These is red bottoms
These is bloody shoes


Wow, they really are laying it on thick.

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Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Honestly, I think my impression from last week's preview was correct - this is an episode of Spooks made for the CBBC.

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