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PerpetualSelf posted:I'll cut you you loving capitalist worshipping swine shitlord. I'm a capitalist worshipping swine shitlord.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:20
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PerpetualSelf posted:I don't want to win a election. Democracy never has worked and it is overrated. What we need is a Dictatorship by the working class . The traditional problem with that, of course, is that they cease, by definition, to be working class when they start dictating.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:23
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Someone actually used "latte liberals" as if it doesn't make it obvious they give 0 shits about socialism and are basically just parroting Fox News talking points.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:26
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I'm sick of all the damage that capitalists inflict on the world by ignoring the needs of others and using them to their own ends. Now all you minorities shut up about the problems you currently face and get with this socialist program I've devised. Seriously though, if you're getting pissed off about identity politics ruining Marxism, just mentally replace it with 'subaltern grouping' and you're right back into the orthodox.
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Sep 20, 2015 19:35
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computer parts posted:There's a pretty strong Scandinavian connection around the Western Great Lakes- Dakotas region iirc. Effectronica posted:However, that was on national-ethnic, not racialized grounds. German-Americans who had immigrated to the USA decades prior did not receive this suspicion, and the very option of assimilation proves that "German" wasn't a racial identity in the 1910s. Contrasting this, assimilation was never an option for Chinese and Indian immigrants, and Japanese-Americans were interned regardless of whether they were immigrants or not. namesake posted:I'm sick of all the damage that capitalists inflict on the world by ignoring the needs of others and using them to their own ends.
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Sep 20, 2015 20:04
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Except where identity politics are solely about giving everyone an equal shot at becoming exploiters. That is not to say that one should tell anyone to "wait for the revolution" because it will fix everything, but likewise should one always be ready to point out that the struggle against racism and other forms of discrimination requires a confrontation with capitalism too, because it is very much in the interest of capital to keep the working class divided. You can actually address racism without tackling capitalism at the same time. Which is good because capitalism ain't going anywhere.
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Sep 20, 2015 20:07
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Identity politics "developed" because there are large groups of people who are being ridiculed, denigrated and attacked because of their various identities, and they are trying to find succor and redress. Not everything is, or has to be, a conscious bourgeois plot to oppress the lower classes. Societies are complex constructions with many moving parts. hth. edit: ofc I also seem to have fallen for the troll so rip SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 20:11
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Bip Roberts posted:I'm a capitalist worshipping swine shitlord. I liked it better when the favored pejorative was still "an obvious entrist Eichmann scumfuck," personally. OwlFancier posted:Well the Russians were white and red but yes kinda Some of them were black, too, at least until the Reds backstabbed them. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 20, 2015 |
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Sep 20, 2015 20:57
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Identity politics is more relevant. There is zero chanche of capitalism going away. But sometimes racist policies can get changed. People have seen it happen in their lifetimes. What People have not seen is the labouring classes defeating the capitalist classes. In fact they have seen everywhere in the world how capitalism has triumphed even in the face of intense local oppositon. Trying to foster revolution is like asking someone to figth against god, it`s not a sane propostion. But Identity politics at least sometimes works, that makes it much easier to give a drat and invest yourself in it.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:27
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Baudolino posted:Identity politics is more relevant. There is zero chanche of capitalism going away. But sometimes racist policies can get changed. People have seen it happen in their lifetimes. What People have not seen is the labouring classes defeating the capitalist classes. In fact they have seen everywhere in the world how capitalism has triumphed even in the face of intense local oppositon. Trying to foster revolution is like asking someone to figth against god, it`s not a sane propostion. But Identity politics at least sometimes works, that makes it much easier to give a drat and invest yourself in it.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:51
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What does "pretty strong" mean in this context? Not as much Anglicization in names, and a continuance of food and other cultural artifacts. Obviously they don't speak Swedish but no one in the US speaks their native language after a few generations, and the flow of immigrants from there tapered off a long time ago.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:55
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I'll bite and say yes. A lot of things are loving horrible in our world and capitalist government. That said, actually thinking that a violent revolution that is founded on the hate of the current ruling class and actively wanting to butcher them is ignorant. What happens to the next generation when their children grow up to be even more oppressed than current minorities, blamed for having banker parents or grandparents? Mass murder is not a solution. Slow change is how it has to be, as unsatisfying as that is. It isn't fair, it's bullshit that people have to suffer while policy and culture slowly advance to a better tomorrow, but the alternative would only end in a doomed future.
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Sep 20, 2015 21:58
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A rising tide lifts all boats, as long as those boats are white.
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Sep 20, 2015 22:14
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Venom Snake posted:A rising tide lifts all boats, as long as those boats are white. This isn't really true at all? What kind of weird world do you live in where the color of an object has anything to do with it's buoyancy? What are they teaching you in social science because it's demonstrably untrue.... Is there accreditation for social sciences?
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Sep 20, 2015 23:11
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computer parts posted:Not as much Anglicization in names, and a continuance of food and other cultural artifacts. 
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Sep 20, 2015 23:14
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Powercrazy posted:This isn't really true at all? What kind of weird world do you live in where the color of an object has anything to do with it's buoyancy? What are they teaching you in social science because it's demonstrably untrue.... Is there accreditation for social sciences? Relative albedo duh.
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Sep 20, 2015 23:21
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Powercrazy posted:This isn't really true at all? What kind of weird world do you live in where the color of an object has anything to do with it's buoyancy? What are they teaching you in social science because it's demonstrably untrue.... Is there accreditation for social sciences? White ones float better, red ones go faster.
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Sep 21, 2015 00:11
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Comparing a change in racist policies against the system of capitalism does not seem fair to me. The better comparison would be the end of racism vs. the end of capitalism. In both cases strides have been made, though admittedly the last few decades have seen reversals on the labor rights front. Of course labor rights also had a head start on the other rights, so who's to say they might not just be ahead of the curve in terms of having their gains reversed too. We can imagine steps toward ending racism, but there are zero imaginable steps toward ending capitalism. Anything that could be suggested would only be toward social democratic values, which actually sustain capitalism more effectively than any other approach to governing.
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Sep 21, 2015 02:14
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SedanChair posted:We can imagine steps toward ending racism, but there are zero imaginable steps toward ending capitalism. Anything that could be suggested would only be toward social democratic values, which actually sustain capitalism more effectively than any other approach to governing. Letting it all burn (minorities first) is usually the first proposed solution towards "ending capitalism".
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Sep 21, 2015 05:50
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What's wrong with lattes? Coffee and creamer is a working mans drink, but you steam some milk and put it in there instead and suddenly it's some fabulous froofroo luxury? E: Oh it's the Italian name isn't it, like an arugula/rocket salad thing? Can we anglicize it, call it cowboob coffee or something. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 06:13
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VitalSigns posted:What's wrong with lattes? It would make sense that the OP would like their coffee like they like their social movements, flavorless and without identity.
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Sep 21, 2015 06:17
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VitalSigns posted:What's wrong with lattes? No, please specifically do not call it cowboob coffee, thanks.
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Sep 21, 2015 06:39
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SedanChair posted:No, please specifically do not call it cowboob coffee, thanks. Well then whatever the English word is for Italian "latte", the stuff that comes out of cow boobs.
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Sep 21, 2015 06:41
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Trabisnikof posted:Letting it all burn (minorities first) is usually the first proposed solution towards "ending capitalism". When Climate Change gets going we can be rest assured that Capitalism will end up burning all of the minorities first.
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Sep 21, 2015 07:21
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SedanChair posted:We can imagine steps toward ending racism, but there are zero imaginable steps toward ending capitalism. Anything that could be suggested would only be toward social democratic values, which actually sustain capitalism more effectively than any other approach to governing. Like the next time some says that D&D is full of communists, I'm going to point them to this thread, where D&D regulars say that capitalism cannot end, cannot be beaten, and actually, it's really good. rudatron fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 07:39
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rudatron posted:Racism doesn't end without revolution though, you can't separate the two. I'm curious where you get the idea that a revolution ever got rid of racism. Unless by "revolution" you mean genocide? That can work, if you kill all of the race in question, bam no more racism!
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Sep 21, 2015 07:43
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Racism abets class based divisions, and usually is a class based division. Trying to fight racism without looking at the deeper economic factors won't end very well, if you look at the Civil Rights campaign in America their leaders usually recognized this, by the end of his life Martin Luther King was making a wider scale fight against poverty and inequality a major part of his campaign. I mean the Black Panthers were loving revolutionary Marxists. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 07:48
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rudatron posted:Racism doesn't end without revolution though, you can't separate the two. Nobody said it was good, just that there is no way to get to the end of it without society collapsing. Even then, what rises from the ashes will likely be another form of capitalism, only with more spears made from stop sign posts.
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Sep 21, 2015 08:05
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PerpetualSelf posted:I recently read this article which lays out the history of privilege and identity politics. It lays out a very convincing argument that the development of these concepts were created as a means to split radical americans and discourage the possibility of radical revolution throughout the world. I agree, we need Marxism not some milquetoast recuperation memes
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Sep 21, 2015 08:19
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You just need a charismatic enough revolutionary leader who's willing to pile up vast skull mountains of librarians and grad students and kindergarten teachers and anyone with eyeglasses, and then everyone's got much bigger things to worry about than a little racism, problem solved.
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Sep 21, 2015 08:19
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SedanChair posted:We can imagine steps toward ending racism, but there are zero imaginable steps toward ending capitalism. Anything that could be suggested would only be toward social democratic values, which actually sustain capitalism more effectively than any other approach to governing. To save what's worth saving in liberalism we must overcome its body: capitalism
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Sep 21, 2015 08:21
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SedanChair posted:You can actually address racism without tackling capitalism at the same time. Which is good because capitalism ain't going anywhere. That's the dream of fascism
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Sep 21, 2015 08:22
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rudatron posted:Racism doesn't end without revolution though, you can't separate the two. lmao
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Sep 21, 2015 09:06
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VitalSigns posted:You just need a charismatic enough revolutionary leader who's willing to pile up vast skull mountains of librarians and grad students and kindergarten teachers and anyone with eyeglasses, and then everyone's got much bigger things to worry about than a little racism, problem solved. 
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Sep 21, 2015 09:25
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“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals.” ― Mark Twain
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Sep 21, 2015 09:50
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SedanChair posted:We can imagine steps toward ending racism, but there are zero imaginable steps toward ending capitalism. Looks like someone hasn't heard of Marxist-Leninism.
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Sep 21, 2015 18:53
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I mean marx suggests ending capitalism via social democracy, so that's sort of a step towards it.
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Sep 21, 2015 19:32
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SedanChair posted:You can actually address racism without tackling capitalism at the same time. Which is good because capitalism ain't going anywhere. Neither is racism.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:02
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To answer the question of the OP: Yes. You can close the thread now.
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Sep 21, 2015 20:02
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Black Baby Goku posted:Neither is racism. im doing my part to dilute the white race and I recommend all other black people so the same
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Sep 21, 2015 20:06
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