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ThinkTank posted:Do Caps fans still hold any hope for Tom Wilson as something more than an enforcer, or is it clear he's just a classic case of being rushed into the NHL and stagnating at this point? I don't have any problems with Wilson or the way he's been handled. He's been asked to play a specific role during his first two seasons and he did that really well. As he continues to develop, he'll be asked to play more roles and will be put on better lines. I expect his production to improve and think he'll be a 40-point top 6 wrecking ball within 2 years. I don't think he was rushed and I don't think he is stagnating. He just does what the coaches ask.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:41
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larkko posted:Oh! I also tried out hockeystreams with a one-day sub and tried to watch the game during my train commute. Although the video quality was loving mindblowing when compared to GCL, it kept buffering too often. Also, using HS through the PS4 browser seems really bad since there isn't any search bar visible and I'm not able to skip forward. Yeah I can't get it to stream well on mobile at all. On PC it works like a dream. Streaming to Chromecast is a mixed bag in that for weeks it can work absolutely fine and then for weeks it can be a non stop buffering nightmare. Hoping the new Chromecast/Steamlink fixes that problem.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:42
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quote:But somehow they’re starting to use this bullshit in contract negotiations. You have teams saying, “Oh, wow, look at this player in Chicago who had a 60 percent possession number.” Well, yeah, because he’s an average player playing with Toews and Kane. So all of the sudden a team signs him for $3 million a year even though he’s a $1.5 million a year player, and they’re shocked when his possession isn’t as good. Are you kidding me? I find this kind of thing is really common with anti-analytics players. They don't really understand what they're trying to do. Like his example here, the point would be so that doesn't happen.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:45
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:Hockeystreams has a much higher bitrate for the higher quality streams than GCL, so the buffering is understandable. Pretty sure you can select which bitrate you want to stream at on mobile though. As it stands, I'm quite torn between GCL and HS. If I end up with GCL I'm getting a service that works absolutely fine any way I'm using it. With HS I get superior bitrate but have to get a Chromecast and I'm not able to watch games while on my commute as well as I would like to. Has there been any crazy half-off Russian offers for GCL this year?
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Sep 22, 2015 17:51
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Aphrodite posted:I find this kind of thing is really common with anti-analytics players. I mean, he's right in that some of these teams are probably overpaying guys for possession stats, but they were doing that for counting stats too. lovely teams won't be good just because they hire a stats guy willing for work for 50k or less.
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Sep 22, 2015 17:59
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larkko posted:Yeah, you can select lower quality with HS but I guess it wasn't low enough considering how crowded the network probably is every morning on the train. Yeah, the PS4 thing was pure rear end so I have to get a Chromecast if I end up getting HS. Honestly I'd reccomend a Roku over a Chromecast for hockeystreams viewing. The CC is nice if you have an android device, but having a physical remote on the roku is nice for pausing, fastforward/rewind etc. I do most of the hockeystreams viewing with live games so for me the CC is fine. I have a Roku on another TV in my house so I know how both work pretty well. Also, like I mentioned the CC is much better if you have an android phone or tablet. If you don't you're limited to starting/stopping your casts from the browser on your PC.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:03
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Jordan7hm posted:I mean, he's right in that some of these teams are probably overpaying guys for possession stats, but they were doing that for counting stats too. lovely teams won't be good just because they hire a stats guy willing for work for 50k or less. Yeah, in his example possession could just as easily be goals and it happened all the time.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:03
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Spamtron7000 posted:I don't have any problems with Wilson or the way he's been handled. He's been asked to play a specific role during his first two seasons and he did that really well. As he continues to develop, he'll be asked to play more roles and will be put on better lines. I expect his production to improve and think he'll be a 40-point top 6 wrecking ball within 2 years. I don't think he was rushed and I don't think he is stagnating. He just does what the coaches ask. So two seasons ago that 5 minutes of ice time a night punching mans in DC was better for him than 16+ minutes a night scoring goals in Plymouth? Okay.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:05
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Bregor posted:So two seasons ago that 5 minutes of ice time a night punching mans in DC was better for him than 16+ minutes a night scoring goals in Plymouth? Okay. It was irrelevant. He wasn't going to be more than he is anyway. There are guys who miss entire seasons at his age and still progress better than he has. At some point it's also on the player.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:12
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his ohl numbers don't look that great anyway? I dont get it. Wilson also acts like a giant shithead on the ice all the time , taking runs at people etc.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:17
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grack posted:The Sharks lost to a hockey team put together by Jim Benning this rivalry is heating up 
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Sep 22, 2015 18:19
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i sometimes think its better to keep guys up with the nhl team. playing 11 more minutes a night in juniors is nice, and he might score some more goals against teens or whatever, but does that really translate to nhl success? isn't it better to actually practice with nhl pros every day and maybe get a better understanding of what it actually takes to be a nhl player? seems like in some cases its better to learn from the best, so to speak, instead of farting around in juniors and living with some dumb rear end billet family who give you chicken nuggets for dinner every night.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:19
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Jordan7hm posted:It was irrelevant. He wasn't going to be more than he is anyway. I fail to see how a player's competition level, role, and coaching in their age 18 and 19 seasons can be irrelevant. Not saying he was going to be better than this by a whole lot, but the Caps haven't created an environment for him to develop an offensive game.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:20
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Jamwad Hilder posted:i sometimes think its better to keep guys up with the nhl team. playing 11 more minutes a night in juniors is nice, and he might score some more goals against teens or whatever, but does that really translate to nhl success? isn't it better to actually practice with nhl pros every day and maybe get a better understanding of what it actually takes to be a nhl player? seems like in some cases its better to learn from the best, so to speak, instead of farting around in juniors and living with some dumb rear end billet family who give you chicken nuggets for dinner every night. I think that can be true for top guys, but with Wilson he hadn't obviously graduated from juniors yet, so why rush him?
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Sep 22, 2015 18:23
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Jamwad Hilder posted:i sometimes think its better to keep guys up with the nhl team. playing 11 more minutes a night in juniors is nice, and he might score some more goals against teens or whatever, but does that really translate to nhl success? isn't it better to actually practice with nhl pros every day and maybe get a better understanding of what it actually takes to be a nhl player? seems like in some cases its better to learn from the best, so to speak, instead of farting around in juniors and living with some dumb rear end billet family who give you chicken nuggets for dinner every night. He and Michael Latta have nothing else in their fridge/pantry other than a 6-pack of ketchup bottles so chicken nuggets every night would probably be an upgrade. Wilson is probably just a depth forward at this point, but he could still become a very good depth forward and that would make me happy. He doesn't have enough skill to play in the top 6. It also sucks that he has a lovely reputation with referees because he almost certainly leads the league in bullshit penalty calls against, but that limits his usefulness in pressure situations even though he also draws a ton of penalties.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:37
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tofes posted:this rivalry is heating up Sorry, the bumfights videos were banned years ago and the producers agreed to not make any more.
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Sep 22, 2015 18:38
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tonight i get to watch sergei gonchar slowly drag his way up and down the ice trying to keep pace with crosby, malkin, and phil the thrill. i also get to see a daniel sprong hockey's back baby
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Sep 22, 2015 19:09
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Mind_Taker posted:He and Michael Latta have nothing else in their fridge/pantry other than a 6-pack of ketchup bottles so chicken nuggets every night would probably be an upgrade. they probably put the ketchup on chicken nuggets. I bet they live in clarendon though, so at least they're probably nice chicken nuggets from whole foods or trader joes.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:13
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Bregor posted:I fail to see how a player's competition level, role, and coaching in their age 18 and 19 seasons can be irrelevant. Not saying he was going to be better than this by a whole lot, but the Caps haven't created an environment for him to develop an offensive game. Being with the NHL club means pro-level coaching and training, and a pro-level, adult, lifestyle. That has its own benefits beyond getting a bunch of minutes on a junior team. He wasn't given the opportunity to develop an offensive game because they have guys who are significantly better at that aspect of the game than he is.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:21
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Vicas posted:hahah oh my god, Torts got hired by NHL Network as an analyst Wacky Biron on my TV!  E: "Cally hit the crossbar on that one, he can't shoot it that high" lol DJExile fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 19:26
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look at me i'm chris higgins and i'm a big man, i block shots in the preseason http://canucksarmy.com/2015/9/22/preseason-shot-block-has-canucks-higgins-in-a-walking-boot john tortorella's negative impact on the canucks will never end  e: speaking of, TSN Radio Vancouver @TSN1040 Torts on Vancouver: But I have strong thoughts that I did a lot of right things out there too Aye Doc fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 19:31
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Jordan7hm posted:Being with the NHL club means pro-level coaching and training, and a pro-level, adult, lifestyle. That has its own benefits beyond getting a bunch of minutes on a junior team. That may be, but I don't see how there's any harm in leaving a player in junior. At worst they have a couple years of substandard training, but then again teams should be taking an active interest in their prospects and ensuring they remain in shape while with their junior team anyways. At best, they'll learn to become more of a dynamic player and can focus on improving little things in their game rather than trying to adapt to the NHL all at once. I'd say there's also less chance of sustaining a lasting injury in junior simply because players aren't as strong or fast as in the NHL (although I guess you could argue they're also less practiced as safe hitting). Putting a player into the NHL early on does give them the benefit of an NHL lifestyle and training regime, but that's about where the value ends in my eyes. They'll invariably be given fewer chances to make mistakes, less ice time to focus on improving incrementally all while facing a much higher level of opposition and physicality. I think players getting thrown into the NHL and stagnating is a very real phenomenon. Yes you can say that players like Gilbert Brule were never NHL level in the first place, but I think another season of directed training in the WHL where he got to run riot over the league would've done him a world of good. I also think from an off ice perspective, it's best to let a player develop emotionally surrounded by their peers and away from the limelight. It's easy to forget that NHL prospects are teenagers just entering university age, and let's face it kids that age make a lot of dumb mistakes in their personal life. I know I did, thankfully I didn't have millions of people following my every move while it happened. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 19:35
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I think advanced stats are most useful when they tell a different story than what the eye/reputation test does. Do we need stats to tell us Toews is a great player? No, we don't. That's evident from watching him play. When the stats show how bad Brandon Sutter is however, that can be pretty damned valuable, especially when the popular sentiment around the league is he's a valuable two-way presence. Or when the stats show how awesome a guy like Stralman is. I guarantee you Stralman is not a valuable commodity pre analytics, but I guaran-fuckin-tee Yzerman leaned a lot on those to sign Stralman because it's not like visually his game is super glamorous. It's things like that where analytics shine. You use them to identify market inefficiencies and find value where other teams don't. I'm not advocating being completely beep boop and relying just on stats - I do think the eye test has its worth too, but when the eyes and stats are telling two different stories, there can be incredible value in finding out why and exploiting that to your advantage. Although honestly, there is a fair argument that using your eyes at all is stupid and that teams should lean on the stats above all else. I forget the study, but one of the stats sites determined that if certain teams had simply drafted players based entirely on their junior production they would have done much better than drafting based on their own judgment. Not to beat Canucks fans into the ground but flipping Sutter for a better player and a pick is a perfect example of how analytics can help a team.
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Sep 22, 2015 19:59
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If you're playing junior in Canada, you're not developing normally (as a person) anyway. I dunno, Tom Wilson has developed into as good an NHL player as his underlying career numbers indicate he would turn out to be by this stage. I really don't see the problem here. I think there are guys for whom the strategy didn't work out, but there are just as many (significantly more) who take their time and never make it, so it's all hindsight anyway. Tom Wilson is in the NHL as a regular roster player, and basically doesn't have to compete for a job in camp. That's more than most mid 1st round picks can say at 21.
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Sep 22, 2015 20:06
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Did anybody post about how Brandon Saad is out with an injury after taking a puck to the face in practice? Being from Pittsburgh and playing from the Blue Jackets is going to combine to make him extra cursed with injuries now
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Sep 22, 2015 20:10
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Pornographic Memory posted:Did anybody post about how Brandon Saad is out with an injury after taking a puck to the face in practice? That's sad 
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Sep 22, 2015 20:37
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Are the Canucks still paying Keith Ballard money because I need to know whether they can buyout Sbisa after this season or not.
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Sep 22, 2015 20:38
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Yaya posted:Are the Canucks still paying Keith Ballard money because I need to know whether they can buyout Sbisa after this season or not. They sure are, next year too! From a technical perspective there's no reason why they couldn't buy out Sbisa next summer. From an "our GM's a stubborn mouth breathing idiot" perspective it's not going to happen unless he walks into Rogers Arena and opens fire on paying customers.
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Sep 22, 2015 20:41
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The website says tonight's Bruins/Caps game is on BostonBruinsTV. What is that exactly? The website?
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Sep 22, 2015 20:44
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ThinkTank posted:They sure are, next year too! don't worry, the new walk through metal detectors will guarantee that any paying customer deaths will happen outside of the arena
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Sep 22, 2015 20:45
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Aphrodite posted:The website says tonight's Bruins/Caps game is on BostonBruinsTV. it means you'll be viewing the game here: http://video.bruins.nhl.com/videocenter/
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Sep 22, 2015 20:45
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I won't but someone on the internet will probably be viewing it for me.
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Sep 22, 2015 20:47
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TomWilsonChat: To be fair to both sides, every single Capitals player lost a year's worth of development during Adam Oates' tenure. The problem wasn't that Tom Wilson was rushed into the NHL. It's that we didn't turn him into a goalie.
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Sep 22, 2015 21:06
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Tom Wilson will be a great third liner on the Caps but that will probably be his peak on this team.
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Sep 22, 2015 21:17
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Jordan7hm posted:Being with the NHL club means pro-level coaching and training, and a pro-level, adult, lifestyle. That has its own benefits beyond getting a bunch of minutes on a junior team. He's also getting punched in the face more than he ever did in juniors, by bigger meaner better face-punchers. He never topped ten fights in juniors, and had 16 in his first year in the NHL, 13 the next. That's the role he's focusing on, and he's training while more banged-up and fatigued.
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Sep 22, 2015 21:18
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He had a fight every 5 games in junior. He's slowing down in that department.
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Sep 22, 2015 21:35
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I look forward to seeing Therrien get horribly out-coached tonight
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Sep 22, 2015 21:45
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Jordan7hm posted:If you're playing junior in Canada, you're not developing normally (as a person) anyway. Show me where the bad OHL touched you 
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Sep 22, 2015 21:52
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Aphrodite posted:I won't but someone on the internet will probably be viewing it for me. So I have to wait until Thursday to hear them complain about Khokhlachev again? Man...
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Sep 22, 2015 21:56
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Vicas posted:hahah oh my god, Torts got hired by NHL Network as an analyst
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Sep 22, 2015 23:29
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