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I picked up a 91 MR2 Turbo. I'd like to have the boost limit increase from 10psi at 3k to 14psi at 6k and stay there until the fuel cut. I've been looking for an EBC That will do this, the only one I've found is the turbosmart eboost2 : http://www.turbosmartusa.com/product/e-boost-2 The downside is that it's about 600 bucks, and that's more than I wanted to spend. Does anyone know any other products that might do this? Bonus question: Does anyone have a good reference for budget-ish data logging. I'd like to record about six channels of data on something that has it's own internal memory. I have found cheap solutions (sub $150), but they require connection to a running computer. I've found some ridiculously expensive solutions ($4k) that fall out of my budget. I was wondering if there's something that y'all know about. Thanks.
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Sep 21, 2015 05:59
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 22:12 |
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A running computer plus your cheap solution might do you for datalogging. I got a perfectly good laptop for $80 last week, it can't be that hard to raid Craigslist for something.
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Sep 21, 2015 06:16
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From a little poking around I don't really see any other standalone controller that will do what you want and is any cheaper. That said, why do you want that specific boost curve over what is happening now? What things did you want to log and does the car already have gauges with output channels? Is there a WBo2 on it and/or a boost control solenoid? For the money of a fancy boost controller and a logger you can almost buy a standalone ecu that will do both of those things. Although tuning, a harness, and maybe additionsl sensors and solenoids will add up. Looks like there is a plug and play megasquirt, that plus a datalogger like the aem aq-1 would probably handle everything. jamal fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Sep 21, 2015 |
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Sep 21, 2015 06:58
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jamal posted:For the money of a fancy boost controller and a logger you can almost buy a standalone ecu that will do both of those things. Although tuning, a harness, and maybe additionsl sensors and solenoids will add up. Megasquirt + Bluetooth dongle and an old Android device for datalogging would do all this. I think they might even make a pnp for your car. Or you could make the boost controller. Buy 2 manual ones, an air solenoid, and a cheap rpm switch. Have the air solenoid controlled by the rpm switch and route boost between a boost controller set at 10, and one at 16 psi. Or if that's too hard, there's plenty of 2 stage body controllers on eBay, and wire the rpm switch for control. The rpm switches are cheap at summit.
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Sep 21, 2015 08:13
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jamal posted:From a little poking around I don't really see any other standalone controller that will do what you want and is any cheaper. That said, why do you want that specific boost curve over what is happening now? I don't like the way that turbo cars deliver power. The WRX I have, piece of poo poo that it is, does have some fancy controls to try to make a flat torque curve that drops off at the end. I much prefer that to a huge hit that trails off. Since the car will support more boost, I'd like to build the boost with RPMs to flatten the curve. I haven't connected a WB to it yet. I'm trying to decide between a WB and just taking it to a dyno to see how well the stock setup handles more boost. It seems that lots of owners see 16 psi without fueling issues. But, I'm not willing to go into this blind. I want the extra channels because I track my cars. A couple cars ago, it had lots of data available. Particularly the oil, diff, and tranny fluid temperature sensors were useful data points. Figured I'd want to see those, plus coolant, plus boost, plus WB output. I looked, briefly, at the megasquirt some time ago. I like the idea of it, but IMO, it really comes into its own on cars that include all the sensors you want. This car lacks half the sensors I'm interested in tracking. But, you make a good point and I'll re-evaluate it as a solution.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:26
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mafoose posted:Megasquirt + Bluetooth dongle and an old Android device for datalogging would do all this. I think they might even make a pnp for your car. mafoose posted:Or you could make the boost controller. Buy 2 manual ones, an air solenoid, and a cheap rpm switch. Have the air solenoid controlled by the rpm switch and route boost between a boost controller set at 10, and one at 16 psi. I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're suggesting. Can you elaborate or point to a FAQ/HowTo? mafoose posted:Or if that's too hard, there's plenty of 2 stage body controllers on eBay, and wire the rpm switch for control. The rpm switches are cheap at summit.
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Sep 22, 2015 04:31
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The 'huge hit" you're talking about mostly occurs with drag monsters/dyno queens that have dump truck-sized turbos on car engines and take forever to spool up. A more appropriately sized turbo like what came on it from the factory shouldn't have that problem too badly. If you just cap boost at 16 psi, it'll hit that as soon as it can spool, then stay there until it can't maintain pressure as RPMs climb. This guy runs 16psi even on an MR2 turbo:  [source] That torque curve looks pretty flat to me, and that is on the stock CT20B turbo (although with different cams), so yours will spool and develop torque pretty similarly. Artificially limiting boost til 6k will just lower the torque before then and make it less linear. If that boost/torque hitting at 3.5k is too late for you, you'll have to look into much newer turbos like the Garrett GTX line, which spool faster and have a wider operating range. Or just get a V8 car and get rid of the small, high-revving turbo engine. Set boost and get your car tuned properly before trying weird stuff like what you're asking.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:14
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james posted:I don't like the way that turbo cars deliver power. Then why do you have two turbo cars? A wrx actually has a huge torque peak and then torque drops all the way to redline. The power curve stays pretty flat though. You can tune it however you want, but limiting midrange boost is just going to make the car slower. Anyway, I recommended the megasquirt because it's cheap and plugs in and will control boost the way you want. It will probably also do some logging. If you spend more there are nicer options although I am not finding too many pnp ecus for that car so you would need to find/build an adapter and do some extra wiring. A good ecu + logger + dash that all integrate would be the best option, but not cheap. Also you can get a digital dash that will datalog and come with gps and stuff. I don't have an experience with it, but the IQ3 but it appears to be a pretty good value. jamal fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 05:46
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I'm gonna say why, because the only way your gonna get a nice smooth power curve on a gen2 motor is by converting to the newer gen3 efi that runs off a map sensor instead of the lovely flapper maf. Even then thats a big job thats not worth it, if you didnt want old school turbo power delivery you bought the wrong car. I dunno what motor prices are like in the US but here it would be cheaper just to swap a whole gen3 lump in, electronics included than start bothering with standalone ecus and associated mapping etc. Also if its still the stock CT26 turbo boost will tail off at around 6000rpm anyway
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Sep 22, 2015 08:16
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Enourmo posted:The 'huge hit" you're talking about mostly occurs with drag monsters/dyno queens that have dump truck-sized turbos on car engines and take forever to spool up. A more appropriately sized turbo like what came on it from the factory shouldn't have that problem too badly. I ran an accessport on the WRX for awhile. I have an MBC installed on the MR2. With the AP installed, the WRX definitely had a big hit at ~2500 that faded hard a couple grand later. The MR2 has a commendable stock system that makes the turbo build boost quite slowly near threshold, it's quite smooth. The MBC on it blocks the wastegate signal completly until some boost has built, which makes the hit sharper. Regardless, at stock levels the turbo holds the same boost from threshold to 6 grand, but the torque definitely drops off. I shift at 6k because it feels like you're just making noise even at that point. Enourmo posted:If you just cap boost at 16 psi, it'll hit that as soon as it can spool, then stay there until it can't maintain pressure as RPMs climb. Enourmo posted:This guy runs 16psi even on an MR2 turbo: That is a very flat torque curve. If the car had that, this thread wouldn't exist. But it doesn't. Here's an example of stock: http://www.angelfire.com/sc/cosmo/Dyno2.html (not hotlinking cause it's on angelfire.) But you can see the drop. Here's an example of a 16 psi car:  That's a pretty definitive drop. But, there's something wrong with his scale. The other graphs I found (which, of course, I can't find now) show that modulating boost should allow me to flatten the torque cure to about 6k, which is fine. Enourmo posted:If that boost/torque hitting at 3.5k is too late for you, you'll have to look into much newer turbos like the Garrett GTX line, which spool faster and have a wider operating range. Or just get a V8 car and get rid of the small, high-revving turbo engine. Not sure how you got to that point. It's pretty clear I'm trying to do this on a budget.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:28
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jamal posted:Then why do you have two turbo cars? The WRX was my first turbo car. I like the way the stock tune delivers power. I just don't like it in 1990s boost management mode. I ended up with the MR2 because there aren't many mid-engined cars available. The Boxster/Caymans have engine woes up the wazoo, especially if you track them. Leaves you with fieros, MR2s, and exotics. Not much in the way of options. The turbo offered better equipment, so it seemed worthwhile. jamal posted:A wrx actually has a huge torque peak and then torque drops all the way to redline. The power curve stays pretty flat though. You can tune it however you want, but limiting midrange boost is just going to make the car slower. Yes, this seems accurate. From all I read, it's because the turbo is too small for what I want the car to do. That's ok, the car has a lot of compromises, and this was one of them. jamal posted:Anyway, I recommended the megasquirt because it's cheap and plugs in and will control boost the way you want. It will probably also do some logging. If you spend more there are nicer options although I am not finding too many pnp ecus for that car so you would need to find/build an adapter and do some extra wiring. A good ecu + logger + dash that all integrate would be the best option, but not cheap. Also you can get a digital dash that will datalog and come with gps and stuff. I don't have an experience with it, but the IQ3 but it appears to be a pretty good value. I will look at the megasquirt again. That IQ3 looks fantastic. I'm going to do a little research about it. It's more than I wanted to spend, but the dash functionality seems to make it a good choice for something that could be moved to a future vehicle. Thanks. I would have liked to spend a lot more money and time on this car, but the problem is headroom. Even with a bucket installed, I can't find enough room without removing the floor or changing the shape of it significantly. Until I solve that problem, I hate to put too much time/money into a car that I can't drive down a bumpy road without hitting my head. I just felt the boost controller idea would let me get a better feel for a mid-engined car at the track.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:50
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track day bro! posted:I'm gonna say why, because the only way your gonna get a nice smooth power curve on a gen2 motor is by converting to the newer gen3 efi that runs off a map sensor instead of the lovely flapper maf. Even then thats a big job thats not worth it, if you didnt want old school turbo power delivery you bought the wrong car. This all matches with what I've found. Falling off at 6k is fine, I just would like it a little flatter from 3-6k.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:54
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james posted:
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Sep 23, 2015 06:06
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james posted:The WRX was my first turbo car. I like the way the stock tune delivers power. I just don't like it in 1990s boost management mode. I found most aftermarket seats tend to sit higher than stock seats, you arent using the stock rails still? I'd be looking at refreshing the suspension first and maybe looking at going to the 93 onwards turbo brakes if using it on track.
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Sep 23, 2015 08:12
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track day bro! posted:I found most aftermarket seats tend to sit higher than stock seats, you arent using the stock rails still? I'd be looking at refreshing the suspension first and maybe looking at going to the 93 onwards turbo brakes if using it on track. That's weird, my experience has been just the opposite. However, I think that many of the newer sports car's seats have much thinner bottoms than what I'm used to, so I could easily see that being the case going forward. Have most of the seats you installed been bottom mount or side mount?
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Sep 26, 2015 06:11
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jamal posted:We had AIM dashes in the two time attack cars at the shop I used to work for because our tuner/wiring guy was from AEM and they worked with those ecus. So that was nice because you basically just plug it in and everything is there. But yeah, if I was getting one for myself it would probably be that racepak. I think having a shitload of gauges all over the place is pointless and a waste of money because you can't really pay attention to them all anyway. A digital dash let you set warning lights and display whatever you want. I'm pretty sure I have a distributor that carries them so send me a pm or something if you end up wanting to get one. Same goes for that e-boost thing. Thanks.
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Sep 26, 2015 06:20
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My bad, I came across more combative than I meant to. I see your point with the other dyno charts, but it still seems to me like if you're wanting to run 15psi (and looking at the charts you posted), fixing the breathing on the top end of the rev range (be that porting/cams/turbo swap/whatever) will give you better results than capping boost on the low end, otherwise why not just run flat lower boost (which is free)? E: whoops didn't catch that the linked chart was stock at 7psi. Hmm.
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Sep 26, 2015 06:29
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james posted:That's weird, my experience has been just the opposite. However, I think that many of the newer sports car's seats have much thinner bottoms than what I'm used to, so I could easily see that being the case going forward. Have most of the seats you installed been bottom mount or side mount? To clarify I mean aftermarket seats in SW20's, I had some custom made rails for some recaro sr's fabbed from the oem rails which have definitely sat higher up. Same goes with other peoples mr2s ive sat in using sidemounts with fixed seats. At the moment i'm using some low mount rails designed for my recaros and even then it feels like i'm sitting about the same height as the oem seats were. Although the seats i'm currently using were an oem option which is probably why! Although i'm looking to replace the drivers sr with a pole position ABE but going by other people whove used the generic recaro sidemounts in mr2's seem to end up with a slightly higher seating position which sucks. A friend has an na which is pretty much stripped with a full cage with a Corbeau fixed bucket on recaro sidemounts, still doesnt feel that low down when sitting in it. I honestly wouldnt worry about the boost thing tbh especialy with the tiny rear end hairdryer CT26, maybe if your still running the oem 14's on lovely tyres with 20+ year old suspension components.
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Sep 27, 2015 18:18
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