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Execu-speak posted:I dislike Islam's intense hatred of women, even the most moderate of Muslim men still treat women like poo poo. I really don't like it. simply not true Neurosis posted:progressive policies with regard to women contributed to feelings of resentment against governments pre-dating the taliban. and the people supportive of these policies were of what religion
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Sep 22, 2015 12:16
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:simply not true Through the course of my work and the area I'm in having a large muslim population I deal with it frequently. Even at the lowest end of the scale the majority of muslim women are completely dominated and controlled by their husbands. On the surface it may appear to be all good but the woman in reality has very little say over her life. At the serious end of the scale you have some breathtakingly awful violence and abuse. Bearing in mind that this is the situation amongst an allegedly assimilated muslim community living in a western style democracy. I cannot imagine how bad life must be for women I'm countries like Pakistan etc. Edit: Even putting aside my own personal experience as anecdotal you cannot deny that historically and contemporarily the muslim world is one where women have little to no agency. In short you are full of poo poo. Execu-speak fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 12:29
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Comparing male circumcision to fgm is really dumb. You should probably feel bad.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:32
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:and the people supportive of these policies were of what religion let me take a survey: mohammad zahir shah muslim huh you've got a point
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Sep 22, 2015 12:33
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Execu-speak posted:Yes it is. No, it isn't. It may very well be the case that the Muslims you deal with live/think this way, but if that is the case then you simply do not deal with, as you put it, "the most moderate of Muslims".
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Sep 22, 2015 12:41
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Saki posted:Comparing male circumcision to fgm is really dumb. You should probably feel bad. It's not, and I don't Neurosis posted:let me take a survey: of the many reforms his government instituted, universal suffrage was one of them. yet, he was ousted in a coup by reactionary militants, rather than having these reforms overturned in the free elections, which would seem to indicate that popular support was with these reforms, rather than against them. so yeah, I do.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:46
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:It's not, and I don't edit i've read this a couple of times and this logic chain doesn't follow at all. merely because the actual cause of his reforms being withdrawn was not the decision of a democratically elected government (of which afghanistan never really had one) does not mean his reforms had popular support. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 12:50
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Let's do the fun thing where we list what countries were unlivable shitholes circa 1340 AD and what countries were pretty alright for the time and then try to draw some intrinsic truth about what brand of dumb desert religion is the most violent and retrograde Even if there is actually one that's at its most basic better or worse than the other it wouldnt matter because there's not a single follower of any religion that doesn't either pick and choose or simply magnify whatever they think the most important parts of it are to focus on. Theres plenty of OT Bible passages where God explicitly commands his followers to "kill the infidel" anyway, like the whole golden calf fiasco
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Sep 22, 2015 12:51
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A Stupid Baby posted:Let's do the fun thing where we list what countries were unlivable shitholes circa 1340 AD and what countries were pretty alright for the time and then try to draw some intrinsic truth about what brand of dumb desert religion is the most violent and retrograde please do not disrupt my ad hoc rationalisations of bigotry with your reasoned analysis tia
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Sep 22, 2015 12:52
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Neurosis posted:his position was not subject to election... his position wasn't but those of his ministers that instituted his reforms were. for most of his reign he didn't actually wield any effective power himself, and with the institution of free elections, the ministers who ushered in reforms like women's suffrage and modern education could easily have been voted out of office if the vast majority of the populace really opposed these things.
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Sep 22, 2015 12:54
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most religions seem kinda dumb in general, but I enjoy the futile equivocating to make islam seem like the least bad one
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Sep 22, 2015 12:57
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:his position wasn't but those of his ministers that instituted his reforms were. for most of his reign he didn't actually wield any effective power himself, and with the institution of free elections, the ministers who ushered in reforms like women's suffrage and modern education could easily have been voted out of office if the vast majority of the populace really opposed these things. ministers could not be 'voted out of office' in a manner which would easily affect policy the cabinet was essentially appointed in line with what was acceptable to the king, and only the cabinet could enact policy. a vote of no confidence could be passed dissolving the government (by a 2/3 majority in the lower house) which would again have a cabinet appointed by the king after that dissolution. the fact zahir shah's policies weren't repealed is not really much of a surprise Neurosis fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 13:14
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islam uslam we all slam summerslam -social vegan (2015)
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Sep 22, 2015 13:16
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weird how quickly "the entire muslim world is a shithole" turned into "the human rights reforms in afghanistan are not universally accepted by its population"
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Sep 22, 2015 13:18
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:weird how quickly "the entire muslim world is a shithole" turned into "the human rights reforms in afghanistan are not universally accepted by its population" that's not what's being said. you said: quote:note the past tense. this is no longer de jure the status of women in afghanistan, nor was it before the rise of the taliban. when the taliban is eradicated all remnants of these policies will be gone with them. implying that the misogynist treatment of women in afghanistan was due solely to the taliban, and would dissolve with taliban influence, when actually, reforms in favour of women were controversial at the time. you in turn suggested that if those reforms were as controversial as was asserted they would have easily been removed when in fact the policies being reversed would have been no mean feat.
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Sep 22, 2015 13:26
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Neurosis posted:that's not what's being said. you said: my assertion that this status of women will dissolve with the taliban's influence in no way also stipulates that these changes will be uncontroversial, though. obviously the taliban are muslims and obviously the taliban have some degree of popular support in the country or they wouldn't be able to operate. my assertion is simply that this is no longer the de jure status of women and any communities enforcing these rules are doing so in violation of afghanistan's law.
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Sep 22, 2015 13:34
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i gave ur mom the ol' soup de jure last night
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Sep 22, 2015 13:42
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I mean let's clear up what is being said: I responded directly to an assertion that "the shittier a country is for women the greater the percentage of the population is Muslim" with an example of a city where the population is nearly universally Muslim that is also fairly progressive in its treatment of women. you responded by pointing out that in the entire country 90% of women face domestic violence. I then pointed out that treating women this way, while something that happens, is against the law, and that the country is, overall, still in the process of transitioning to the control of a government that outlaws this kind of behaviour, which is why I specified my example to the city where they are most firmly in control. and it's telling that we have to go to a country literally embroiled in war with islamic extremists for this to be a point of contention. why don't we talk about the relative status of women in fairly moderate countries like the UAE, or Lebanon. of course, if we do that, the definition of "lovely for women" will simply change, nevermind that it has no direct correlation with Islam. the latest HRW report on women's status in Lebanon isn't about Islam, it's about religion in general, and Lebanon's lack of civil codes regarding marriage: https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/01/19/interview-women-unequal-under-lebanons-law this report talks about how marriage codes in Lebanese law are entirely religious; it isn't possible to have a civil marriage in Lebanon. whatever religion you're registered as, that religion's official rules dictate the terms of your marriage. so if we compare those regarding Muslim women, they should be substantially "shittier" than those of non-Muslim women, right? quote:Roughly 40 percent of Lebanon’s citizens are Christian. Is it easier for them to divorce than Muslims? whoops
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Sep 22, 2015 13:46
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social vegan posted:i gave ur mom the ol' soup de jure last night hosed up but true
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Sep 22, 2015 13:46
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I mean let's clear up what is being said: I responded directly to an assertion that "the shittier a country is for women the greater the percentage of the population is Muslim" with an example of a city where the population is nearly universally Muslim that is also fairly progressive in its treatment of women. you responded by pointing out that in the entire country 90% of women face domestic violence. I then pointed out that treating women this way, while something that happens, is against the law, and that the country is, overall, still in the process of transitioning to the control of a government that outlaws this kind of behaviour, which is why I specified my example to the city where they are most firmly in control. lol you sound like danny devito in My Cousin Vinny except he's defending a domestic abuser
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Sep 22, 2015 13:53
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:lol you sound like danny devito in My Cousin Vinny except he's defending a domestic abuser why, because I'm correctly pointing out that in the country under discussion, the behaviour we're talking about is expressly illegal and the government is literally waging a war against the subversive elements promoting it?
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Sep 22, 2015 13:54
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just replace "islam" with "gamergate", and then a few other sentences, and maybe stop talking about nations, and after you've done that you've got that bald gamergate guy's MRA videos
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Sep 22, 2015 14:02
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well then I'm just talking about vigilante groups who are for and against the oppression of women killing each other, so uh
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Sep 22, 2015 14:06
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what about super islam op?
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Sep 22, 2015 14:08
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Hell Yeah posted:what about super islam op? I'm glad you asked: all islam is super
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Sep 22, 2015 14:08
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i think the gamergate council should start hiring people who know how to excuse and rationalize the treatment of women like property, and that's guys who make points about how it's technically illegal to murder your wife if you don't have a really good reason
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Sep 22, 2015 14:09
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this is a more elaborate version of what Baby Finland/Khamsek would do where whenever anyone pointed out this sort of stuff the general answer was, "But that's haraam"
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Sep 22, 2015 14:12
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:i think the gamergate council should start hiring people who know how to excuse and rationalize the treatment of women like property, and that's guys who make points about how it's technically illegal to murder your wife if you don't have a really good reason except I'm doing neither of those things. I think it's telling that you have to erroneously ascribe actions I haven't done and beliefs I don't hold to me in order to rationalise your hatred of hundreds of millions of people.
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Sep 22, 2015 14:17
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I don't come to GBS much but I've noticed that it's become really meta and ironic in the last few years, but the really interesting thing is that it seems about 70% of people are being ironic and the remaining 30% are people that have joined since and take the ironic posts literally and are actually real life bigots. Makes for a really chaotic forum...that's kind of enjoyable I guess. Defo preferred the old GBS though. You guys remember that scary photo thread where that poster made slenderman? Oh, sorry god bless 9/11 etc, religion is really good for everyone and everyone is treated fairly and there's no wars so what's the problem am I rirghht???? Edit: And it's become so I can't tell if the OP is being genuine or just going to great lengths to be ironic
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Sep 22, 2015 14:28
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when you think about it, humankind has spent hundreds of thousands of years "transitioning" to its current state. so what's the problem if women have to wait until 2050 to maybe be allowed to drive a car with the permission of their husband
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Sep 22, 2015 14:35
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:when you think about it, humankind has spent hundreds of thousands of years "transitioning" to its current state. so what's the problem if women have to wait until 2050 to maybe be allowed to drive a car with the permission of their husband Woah woah woah lets not go overboard here
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Sep 22, 2015 14:36
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:when you think about it, humankind has spent hundreds of thousands of years "transitioning" to its current state. so what's the problem if women have to wait until 2050 to maybe be allowed to drive a car with the permission of their husband they don't, nor should they TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I think it's telling that you have to erroneously ascribe actions I haven't done and beliefs I don't hold to me in order to rationalise your hatred of hundreds of millions of people.
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Sep 22, 2015 14:38
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Frankieman posted:I don't come to GBS much but I've noticed that it's become really meta and ironic in the last few years, but the really interesting thing is that it seems about 70% of people are being ironic and the remaining 30% are people that have joined since and take the ironic posts literally and are actually real life bigots. Makes for a really chaotic forum...that's kind of enjoyable I guess. Defo preferred the old GBS though. I am permabanned forums user muslimapologist58
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Sep 22, 2015 14:40
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furthermore i posit that the women like it
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Sep 22, 2015 14:41
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I am permabanned forums user muslimapologist58 How does Allah keep the sky from falling on our heads? Does he personally hold it up the whole time, or does he have a rotor with Muhammed, Jesus and Abraham? Or does he just have them hold it when he has an itch or needs to adjust his trousers? Please respond ASAP as your answer depends on whether or not I book my ticket to Syria
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Sep 22, 2015 14:48
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Frankieman posted:How does Allah keep the sky from falling on our heads? Does he personally hold it up the whole time, or does he have a rotor with Muhammed, Jesus and Abraham? Or does he just have them hold it when he has an itch or needs to adjust his trousers? Please respond ASAP as your answer depends on whether or not I book my ticket to Syria there is no firmament, and outer space is not made of water. next question.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:07
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Actually, I love women and think they deserve to be treated equally. Unlike gamergaters and dominating husbands You will never find me saying things like "well they made it illegal to treat women poorly and they're still in the process of transitioning" in order to excuse horrifying misogyny and inequality
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Sep 22, 2015 15:20
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Frankieman posted:I don't come to GBS much but I've noticed that it's become really meta and ironic in the last few years, but the really interesting thing is that it seems about 70% of people are being ironic and the remaining 30% are people that have joined since and take the ironic posts literally and are actually real life bigots. Makes for a really chaotic forum...that's kind of enjoyable I guess. Defo preferred the old GBS though. I was expecting a poo poo thread and instead found a big ol GBS 1.0 wall-of-text-care-post that I will never in 1 million years read because it was written by a loving goon and posted in GBS. The old gbs had people doing ramadan in solidarity with muslims and this one has racists making GBS threads on the entirety of islam, I don't know whats worse. TacticalUrbanHomo posted:there is no firmament, and outer space is not made of water. next question. All religions are equally dumb, ergo you're basically a scientologist.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:21
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:there is no firmament, and outer space is not made of water. next question. Really because I've heard a giant shield is involved? I mean, that would have to be a pretty big shield, right, TacticalUrbanHomo? And why does he allow awful things to happen? Like when you walk towards someone in the street and you keep mistaking which way they are going to move past you until you have to awkwardly shuffle by each other?
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Sep 22, 2015 15:22
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PINING 4 PORKINS posted:Actually, I love women and think they deserve to be treated equally. Unlike gamergaters and dominating husbands but I didn't try to excuse anything. TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I think it's telling that you have to erroneously ascribe actions I haven't done and beliefs I don't hold to me in order to rationalise your hatred of hundreds of millions of people.
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Sep 22, 2015 15:30
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