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Hand Knit said that this thread is okay for Kane-related talk if it stays civil. This is a serious topic that merits dicsussion but it was clogging up the preseason thread so let's keep it contained here and not get loving creepy about it. I really wish the FBI would get involved but now it seems that that's not happening. Seems like the only chance to get a clear picture of whats happening in Buffalo
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Sep 23, 2015 22:27
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I'm really not sure what I believe anymore, where did that kit come from? Who would do such a thing  E: The kit wasn't tampered, just a damaged evidence bag. Odd. Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 22:42
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I have a buddy whose dad was a cop in 1970s NYC and he basically said that he hears stories like this all the time from his old man. I'm not saying that the cops knowingly mishandled critical evidence but its not outside the realm of possibility. I'm reminded not only of OJ but also the news out of KY and NC of untesed and destroyed rape kits going back decades
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Sep 23, 2015 22:51
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But now the cops are claiming they still have the un-tampered-with rape kit so who the gently caress knows. This is crazy.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:54
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I thought the family verified the kit with some documentation? Can anyone confirm/deny?
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Sep 23, 2015 22:56
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IBurnStuffAlot posted:I thought the family verified the kit with some documentation? Can anyone confirm/deny? That's what their lawyer claims but the police put out this statement: quote:All evidence related tot his case that was given to the Erie County Central Police Services by the Town of Hamburg Police Department is accounted for and remains in its original packaging in the possession of Erie County Central Police Services. This includes the evidence in the rape kit and the packaging itself. This evidence has been analyzed and reports of that analysis sent to the appropriate agencies.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:00
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For those not in the know: Patrick Kane of the NHL's Chicago Blackhawks was accused of rape by an unidentified female in early August: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2541041-patrick-kane-reportedly-under-police-investigation-latest-details-and-comments The case has remained relatively quiet the last month and a half, outside of a few statements in the media by supposed eyewitnesses EDIT...with the exception of a leak saying there is no DNA evidence proving a rape occurred, which I didn't actually know about : http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2015/09/19/dna-test-results-spur-questions-in-kane-case/ However, today the alleged victim's attorney called a press conference in which he announced the victim's mother had an https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/646731470829187072 https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/646731738132168704 https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/646731896341311488 https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/646732035407671296 This is very disconcerting because uhhhhh how the hell does some random person get access to this sort of evidence? And how do they remove it from custody unknowingly? But wait! There's more! According to Erie County Central Police Services, they are still in possession of all the pertinent evidence, including the rape-kit: https://twitter.com/news4buffalo/status/646769338565951488 So...what the gently caress is happening? Nobody knows, but it's definitely bad whatis fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 23:00
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Top Hats Monthly posted:I'm really not sure what I believe anymore, where did that kit come from? Who would do such a thing It wasn't the rape kit. It was a outer covering for the kit, effectively a paper bag that protects it from damage from point A to B. From what I have read think of it like this, when you order a game from Amazon it is packed in box for shipment to you. When you get the game you open the box, remove the game and take it out of it's wrapper. When you are done you don't put the game back into the cardboard box you got it in. Honestly it is either a prank or someone trying to bait the accuser's lawyers. Both of which are possible. The thing I do not understand is why on earth they didn't go to the authorities immediately. If they didn't feel they could trust the local PD than they should have gone straight to State or Federal officials. On top of that they evidently let multiple people handle what could have been evidence which ruined any credibility of it, super amateur hour work there. What looks like happened is they got what they thought could be a silver bullet, instead of following through with proper procedure decided to bring it public to not only go after Kane in a civil case but also the local PD. It was a hail mary play and looks like it has backfired majorly.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:09
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It confuses me that the FBI is refusing to get involved because whether it was the actual rape kit or a hoax played on the defense it seems like it'd be up their alley.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:10
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Hey friends I wrote a post on the NHL Facebook page chiding them for their terrible handling of this Kane rape accusation and would encourage you all to do the same.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:12
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Hey friends I wrote a post on the NHL Facebook page chiding them for their terrible handling of this Kane rape accusation and would encourage you all to do the same. How have they handled it badly? Kane has been accused of a crime, but not charged for anything and even isn't in the legal system. Even if the NHL and the Blackhawks wanted to they have no legal recourse until he is charged with a crime, look in the CBA. For a perfect example the Kings and NHL are likely going to get hosed by Mike Richards for terminating his contract BEFORE he was charged with anything. The NHLPA aren't going to roll over on it because it would mean a player's contract could be terminated for nearly any misconduct, real or imagined, without being tried in a court of law. The NHL has been VERY hands off in the entire saga and have repeatedly said that they are going to wait and let the legal process play through, which is exactly what they should be doing. I am not exactly sure what you think they could/should be doing different?
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Sep 23, 2015 23:25
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Hey friends I wrote a post on the NHL Facebook page chiding them for their terrible handling of this Kane rape accusation and would encourage you all to do the same. This is awesome of you. I won't do the same because I have a non-white name and that poo poo leads to badness on public FB pages. I did however look up the senior VP of Public Relations, Gary Meagher. You can reach him at gmeagher@nhlDOTcom
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Sep 23, 2015 23:26
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Djarum posted:How have they handled it badly? Kane has been accused of a crime, but not charged for anything and even isn't in the legal system. Even if the NHL and the Blackhawks wanted to they have no legal recourse until he is charged with a crime, look in the CBA. For a perfect example the Kings and NHL are likely going to get hosed by Mike Richards for terminating his contract BEFORE he was charged with anything. The NHLPA aren't going to roll over on it because it would mean a player's contract could be terminated for nearly any misconduct, real or imagined, without being tried in a court of law. the CBA doesn't prevent them from suspending people before they're charged with a crime. there is in fact a section that is titled "Criminal Investigation" and it says "The League may suspend the Player pending the league's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the league" the NHL obviously does not believe this situation is going to have any major negative effects or they would have suspended Kane, but they definitely could have suspended him with pay and then waited for more facts to come out if they wanted
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Sep 23, 2015 23:30
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Aye Doc posted:the CBA doesn't prevent them from suspending people before they're charged with a crime. there is in fact a section that is titled "Criminal Investigation" and it says "The League may suspend the Player pending the league's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the league" Which, for context, includes crossing the border with prescription opiates but not punching out your wife or punching out your wife.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:38
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rebel1608 posted:It confuses me that the FBI is refusing to get involved because whether it was the actual rape kit or a hoax played on the defense it seems like it'd be up their alley. There hasn't been a county or state investigation into the matter, and so far it only concerns one single case and doesn't appear to be evidence of systemic corruption or bias. It's not the kind of thing I would expect the FBI to get immediately involved in the way they would someone making threats against the President/Congress, or something with organized crime involvement, or whatever. They might eventually, but right now it's basically at hearsay level and kicking it up to the state/county level doesn't seem unreasonable, especially since it doesn't seem to have crossed state lines in any way.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:41
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Aye Doc posted:the CBA doesn't prevent them from suspending people before they're charged with a crime. there is in fact a section that is titled "Criminal Investigation" and it says "The League may suspend the Player pending the league's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the league" You are partially correct. quote:18-A.5 Criminal Investigation. A Player subject to Commissioner Discipline for Off-Ice Conduct may seek a reasonable delay in such proceedings in order to retain and seek the advice of counsel in the event his conduct may also be subject to a criminal investigation by any governmental authority, or in the event of an ongoing civil proceeding where the Player has been named as a defendant. The League may suspend the Player pending the League's formal review and disposition of the matter where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League. So the league can technically suspend him but haven't yet mostly to cover their own rear end before charges could/would be filed. The league would have to a investigation themselves and can not until evidence is brought into the open. I imagine that the Blackhawks and NHL have both been in close contact with both Kane and his lawyers so they both have a very good idea of what is going on. I find it most telling that all of Kane's sponsors with the exception of EA are still on board. If people who have a lot of money to lose being associated with Kane are sticking around you have to think that his innocence is pretty darn convincing despite what a lot of people think. As people say, always follow the rats.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:48
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HELLO LADIES posted:There hasn't been a county or state investigation into the matter, and so far it only concerns one single case and doesn't appear to be evidence of systemic corruption or bias. It's not the kind of thing I would expect the FBI to get immediately involved in the way they would someone making threats against the President/Congress, or something with organized crime involvement, or whatever. They might eventually, but right now it's basically at hearsay level and kicking it up to the state/county level doesn't seem unreasonable, especially since it doesn't seem to have crossed state lines in any way. I was under the impression that this sort of thing was the FBIs bailiwick but I could certainly be wrong, thanks As far as the NHL's response I don't really have a problem with suspending a person with pay until a court case plays out, but since Kane hasn't even been charged it seems premature to level sanctions on him.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:51
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Djarum posted:I find it most telling that all of Kane's sponsors with the exception of EA are still on board. If people who have a lot of money to lose being associated with Kane are sticking around you have to think that his innocence is pretty darn convincing despite what a lot of people think. As people say, always follow the rats. I'm pretty sure Gatorade and Nike or whatever the gently caress don't have any more information than you do.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:56
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whatis posted:For those not in the know: I would say that the leak of the rape kit stating there was a lack of DNA evidence would be a rather substantial development in media coverage of this story. Kind of weird that you would leave that out given it happened within the last 3 days or so. I would also state that "an obviously tampered with rape kit" wasn't delivered to the house. It was an evidence bag. Djarum posted:Honestly it is either a prank or someone trying to bait the accuser's lawyers. Both of which are possible. The thing I do not understand is why on earth they didn't go to the authorities immediately. Are there any other possibilities beyond "some random person is playing a prank"? Keep in mind that the victim's identity hasn't been released and isn't known by the general public. The theory that some random person chanced upon this and decided to play a Sick Prank doesn't make a lot of sense, because how would this random person know where to deliver the bag? Aye Doc posted:the NHL obviously does not believe this situation is going to have any major negative effects or they would have suspended Kane, but they definitely could have suspended him with pay and then waited for more facts to come out if they wanted I know this isn't going to go over well, but what if EDIT: the NHL believes that Kane is actually innocent? Look, I'm not a fan of him as a person, I think he's an idiot and I'm pretty sure he's guilty of something. But what if the NHL were briefed on this by the parties involved and made a decision based on what they know about it? It would be lovely to penalize both Kane and the Blackhawks if it turns out he did nothing wrong. I am very skeptical of that being the case, but it's something the NHL has to consider. Wasn't Voynov basically suspended the minute he was charged? Is there any indication that the NHL is giving preferential or different treatment to Kane? The only other comparable I can think of is Varlamov, who was facing domestic violence charges (but wasn't suspended by the league and only faced a misdemeanor charge compared to Voynov facing a felony and Kane potentially facing felony charges.) Perdido fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 23:59
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rebel1608 posted:I was under the impression that this sort of thing was the FBIs bailiwick but I could certainly be wrong, thanks Most employers will put employees suspected of serious things on administrative leave "to give them time to dedicate their full attention to pressing personal issues", which is lawyer for "to get him out of here and away from our name right now". Since the NHL isn't beholden to the shareholders, there's no real reason for them to be so timid about their image.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:59
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Djarum posted:You are partially correct. you are reading things into that excerpt that are not there. "pending the league's formal review" means they can suspend him with pay and then wait out and review the situation, which is what they did with the Slava Voynov situation. they don't have to investigate first and they don't have to wait until evidence comes out into the open. Aye Doc fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 00:02
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Perdido posted:I know this isn't going to go over well, but what if Kane is actually innocent? Look, I'm not a fan of him as a person, I think he's an idiot and I'm pretty sure he's guilty of something. But what if the NHL were briefed on this by the parties involved and made a decision based on what they know about it? In my mind, I picture him meeting with execs and being told "Patty, if you did not do this then carry on. But if you did, and you deny it and they can prove it, you will have embarrassed me and I will loving destroy you. Choose."
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Sep 24, 2015 00:15
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Yeah it's pretty clearly some kind of intimidation or harassment of the complainant. Not sure how daft you'd have to be to consider any other alternative. e: Talking about the fake evidence drop with everyone's names in it, to an unpublished location. Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 00:16
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I know everyone wants to poo poo on the NHL but they're in a really tough position. There has been very little coming directly from the mouths of district attorney out there. Almost everything we're hearing is coming from anonymous sources in local papers, and some of that stuff has conflicted with other reports (such as settlement talks). Unless the NHL has gotten information from the DA or other sources, they're flying as blind as the rest of us. The difference I see in this and Voynov is that Voynov was actually arrested. If I was the Blackhawks I probably would have just told him to stay home for now. I think they deserve the criticism for having him out there over the NHL.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:18
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Yeah it's pretty clearly some kind of intimidation or harassment of the complainant. Not sure how daft you'd have to be to consider any other alternative. Well, the lawyer retained by the girl has defended crooked cops and cops who have murdered. Plus, we literally only have his word that it was delivered to the house and that it was 'verified.' EDIT: The idea that a respected lawyer would be in the business of manufacturing evidence is about as preposterous as Kane's party doing the exact same thing, just to be clear.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:31
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There's no tough decision to be made unless you're part of an old boys club that doesn't recognize that behaviour that was once accepted (gently caress puck bunny even if she's drunk / isn't totally cool with it) isn't accepted anymore. There is no downside for anyone but the Hawks of suspending Kane with pay. The odds of the PA fighting it are pretty drat low as long as he still gets paid. They're fighting the Richards thing because that's about getting out from under a contract, it isn't remotely comparable. They didn't fight the Voynov suspension with pay. Letting him continue to associate with the NHL brand is negative no matter what happens, but incredibly negative if he ends up being found guilty
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Sep 24, 2015 00:32
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Niwrad posted:I know everyone wants to poo poo on the NHL but they're in a really tough position. There has been very little coming directly from the mouths of district attorney out there. Almost everything we're hearing is coming from anonymous sources in local papers, and some of that stuff has conflicted with other reports (such as settlement talks). Unless the NHL has gotten information from the DA or other sources, they're flying as blind as the rest of us. The only other real comparable is Varlamov, who was arrested for assault charges, but wasn't suspended or had any punishment handed down by the league. IIRC, the case never went to trial.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:42
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flakeloaf posted:Most employers will put employees suspected of serious things on administrative leave "to give them time to dedicate their full attention to pressing personal issues", which is lawyer for "to get him out of here and away from our name right now". Since the NHL isn't beholden to the shareholders, there's no real reason for them to be so timid about their image. I just can't agree. Until he is arrested and charged with a crime there is no reason Kane should not be able to play.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:48
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Perdido posted:Well, the lawyer retained by the girl has defended crooked cops and cops who have murdered. in other words the lawyer is a lawyer like seriously that's a pretty dumb argument. kane's lawyer has represented the porn industry a bunch of times. it's pretty irrelevant who their past clients were.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:53
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rebel1608 posted:I just can't agree. Until he is arrested and charged with a crime there is no reason Kane should not be able to play. As long as they pay him, they have no responsibility to play him or allow him to attend team functions. Rape is a serious enough accusation that it should be treated more seriously than the Blackhawks or the NHL appear to be treating this.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:56
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Perdido posted:It would be lovely to penalize both Kane and the Blackhawks if it turns out he did nothing wrong. How exactly is Kane being penalized if he is being paid to stay home? Are all players penalized during the offseason? Sure, consideration has to be made for ~passion for the game~ and ~desire to compete~, but considering the seriousness of the allegations and the potential harm to the brands of the Blackhawks and the NHL as a whole, he should be asked to step away. Sure, the Blackhawks are penalized, they have to pay a huge salary and lose a key piece of their team but there is significant value to the positive PR they would get, instead of the negative. That being said, they don't lose poo poo during the preseason and the legal decision on whether charges are or are not being pursued will likely be made a few months into the season (grand jury hearings in what? A week?) and that will make their decision going forward cut and dry. By having him play, the bigger story is 'Stupid NHL is letting Kane play, they are not taking rape seriously/rich people are immune to the law/the NHL hates women.' instead of what it should be, ie young players, camp excitement, predictions, anticipation for the upcoming season. Hockey is taking a back seat in most conversations about hockey and that is sad.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:58
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Perdido posted:I would say that the leak of the rape kit stating there was a lack of DNA evidence would be a rather substantial development in media coverage of this story. Kind of weird that you would leave that out given it happened within the last 3 days or so. I actually hadn't seen the DNA leak before. Added it to my post, as well as reworded "obviously tampered rape kit" with "evidence bag"
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Sep 24, 2015 01:07
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Jordan7hm posted:As long as they pay him, they have no responsibility to play him or allow him to attend team functions. Also we should know by now that "well he hasn't been charged" is cop-out bullshit when it comes to sexual assault and rape
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Sep 24, 2015 01:08
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ElwoodCuse posted:Also we should know by now that "well he hasn't been charged" is cop-out bullshit when it comes to sexual assault and rape Thank you. Not sure if some of you are naive or what but it's really this simple.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:29
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quote:Official statement from the desk of the Commissioner: "Well he hasn't been charged" is clearly cop-out bullshit when it comes to sexual assault and rape cases. Because of this, we are suspending Patrick Kane without pay until some actual real legal poo poo happens.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:35
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quote:Official statement from the desk of the Commissioner: He's been accused of rape and it's been taken seriously enough that an attempt was made to gather, document and examine evidence, and the results of that investigation were sufficient to convene a grand jury, but she's probably just lying to extort him so gently caress it, I say let him play. It's not like he married her and then punched her in the face.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:42
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What is with the notion that some of you have that we're calling for a suspension without pay. Most of us clearly understand that the union has protections against suspensions without pay and most people are pushing for a suspension with pay which is 100% within the NHL's rights to do, whether there are charges or not. Just because you are hearing what you want to hear does not make us that stupid.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:49
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Jordan7hm posted:There's no tough decision to be made unless you're part of an old boys club that doesn't recognize that behaviour that was once accepted (gently caress puck bunny even if she's drunk / isn't totally cool with it) isn't accepted anymore. He's not been charged with anything. They'd fight, rightfully, 100%. It's scary how quickly everyone is in a hurry to railroad someone before we even get to trial when it comes to cases like this. Allowing the legal process to play out on a very unclear trial is the correct thing to do, something anyone else here would want in a similar situation in their professional life. Justice is not any less served if he's found guilty and immediately banned, suspended, jailed, etc. Cases like this or the Rice and Petersion issues make everyone all retarded. Suspending Kane now after today's incident would be every bit as ridiculous as throwing Ray Rice in double jeportdy
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Sep 24, 2015 01:54
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I'm sure the league is taking both the court of public opinion and the actual evidence presented into account. If they feel like they're taking too big of a PR hit by not suspending him or more concrete evidence comes out, they'll suspend him. Until then, I don't think it's wholly unreasonable that they are sitting back and waiting for more to come out. It seems to me that the Blackhawks should have taken some internal action, even if it wasn't an official suspension, but they haven't. But they're all businesspeople who understand the risks or rewards involved with any action they may take at this point. I don't necessarily think they should take severe action simply because a vocal minority of the population is convicting Kane in their own minds.
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Sep 24, 2015 01:55
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THE MACHO MAN posted:He's not been charged with anything. They'd fight, rightfully, 100%. He should have been suspended from the start as a precaution. I don't think it's unreasonable to suspend him with pay until the investigation/trial is completed just as precautionary measure.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:09
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