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I think that's a false equivocation. It probably isn't completely fair to compare the set of all Black Americans against the set of all people accused of rape.TubeStank posted:Kane's defense so far has been to smear the accuser as much as possible. Great guy taking a moral high ground let me tell you. In Kane's defense, he's gone from the pinnacle of his sport to a pariah in the eyes of much of the fanbase, his career and liberty are in peril and he's in line to lose a shitton of money. He's right to be angry and frustrated with someone (either himself or the victim, depending on how guilty he is) and lashing out is easy to explain. Whether he's guilty or not his lawyer really shouldn't be letting him do it, and I'm amazed that he's said as much as he has already.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:40
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So where do we draw the arbitrary line? When do you decide to start making such presumptions?
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Sep 25, 2015 00:44
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gently caress it
Paulocaust fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 00:54
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I'm not sure where my line is exactly, but if 3999 out of every 4000 violent crimes (or whatever the inverse of the rape statistic is) were committed by Flyers fans, I think I would have a hard time believing someone who said they were assaulted by a Caps fan.
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Sep 25, 2015 00:57
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Aphrodite posted:I'm not sure where my line is exactly, but if 3999 out of every 4000 violent crimes (or whatever the inverse of the rape statistic is) were committed by Flyers fans, I think I would have a hard time believing someone who said they were assaulted by a Caps fan. So you are in favour of racial profiling. hosed up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 25, 2015 00:59
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Racial profiling would be hauling in all Caps fans every time someone said they got punched. In your example, you have a specific episode of interracial violence with one black person and one not-black person, both of whom you know were involved. Of course you'd be a fool to assume the guilty party was a coinflip, but that has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors that surround a lot of black folks than it does about statistics being racist.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:03
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TubeStank posted:Duro the courts are treating Kane as if he is innocent. We the public have no such obligation to particularly considering how obscenely rare false accusations are and how the system is designed to make it especially difficult to prove guilt in a case like this. Kane's defense so far has been to smear the accuser as much as possible. Great guy taking a moral high ground let me tell you. I think you're making a huge assumption that Duro is arguing that the woman involved is making a false accusation. Again, it would be hugely irresponsible if the legal system went and prosecuted someone based on an accusation. If I were prosecuting a criminal case, I'd want to ensure that my ducks were in a row and I had assembled as much evidence as possible to make my case, so as to remove 'a reasonable doubt' from the equation. I'm assuming there's going to be eyewitness accounts, other forensic evidence and other stuff that hasn't come into play yet. AFAIK, the investigation is still ongoing. flakeloaf posted:Do you think characterizing one side as "bleeding heart liberals" for relying on the overwhelming likelihood of a rape accusation being true is the most constructive thing said in this discussion so far? I'm honestly curious as to why you think that there is an 'overwhelming likelihood of a rape accusation being true.' Like, I think you brought up Jian Ghomeshi earlier, and I think his situation is a pretty good example of someone who is pretty well guilty of what he's been accused of. Beyond Kane being a dumb-rear end party bro and who committed assault in one case, what makes you so certain of that? I'm inclined to believe that he's done something wrong, but what I know of the case thus far is pretty underwhelming. quote:I'd hardly call this an echo chamber. We have people saying he probably did it and is therefore a terrible human, we have people saying we don't know if he did it or not and to get off his nuts until we do know, and these two groups of people were challenging each other's ideas in a mostly constructive way without much dismissiveness or name-calling until very recently. I dunno, man. I was pretty loathe to voice my opinion and got called a retard for doing so. Other people have prefaced their posts with "Yeah, I dunno if I should be posting anything, but..." so I'd say that the tone was fairly one-sided prior to this thread being made.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:03
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flakeloaf posted:Racial profiling would be hauling in all Caps fans every time someone said they got punched. In your example, you have a specific episode of interracial violence with one black person and one not-black person, both of whom you know were involved. Of course you'd be a fool to assume the guilty party was a coinflip, but that has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors that surround a lot of black folks than it does about statistics being racist. I don't even want to go down this road, so I regret using the examples I did, but my point was to show that two when making assumptions predicated on the exact same statistical likelihood, certain people are calling one morally reprehensible (and rightfully so) and one the true and just thing to do.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:08
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Perdido posted:I'm honestly curious as to why you think that there is an 'overwhelming likelihood of a rape accusation being true.' Like, I think you brought up Jian Ghomeshi earlier, and I think his situation is a pretty good example of someone who is pretty well guilty of what he's been accused of. Here's an article that shows 5.9% of rape allegations are provably false, but nearly half of all accusations didn't make it to trial for various reasons (meaning they couldn't be tested) and another 13% were unavailable or unsuitable for scrutiny. So take that figure with a little salt. Just because 6% of rape accusers were shown to be making the whole thing up doesn't necessarily mean 94% of accusers were actually raped. I learned a thing today! quote:I dunno, man. I was pretty loathe to voice my opinion and got called a retard for doing so. I can't find that comment in this thread, but if an ad-hom is the best rebuttal someone's got then I'd call that a win for your side. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 01:10
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Paulocaust posted:I don't even want to go down this road, so I regret using the examples I did, but my point was to show that two when making assumptions predicated on the exact same statistical likelihood, certain people are calling one morally reprehensible (and rightfully so) and one the true and just thing to do. And my point, poorly articulated though it was, was that two things with the same statistical likelihood don't always have the same ethical implications. If I turn up 14 numbered cards in a row and I predict the next one's going to be a face card, I should be able to do so without being branded a monster.
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Sep 25, 2015 01:24
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ahahah
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Sep 25, 2015 01:41
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accuser's lawyer called another press conference on very short notice for right now i don't know of any sort of stream, but here's a reporter who is going to be live tweeting or something: https://twitter.com/HannahBuehler?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
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Sep 25, 2015 01:46
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He's not her lawyer anymore. Edit: quote:Hannah Buehler @HannahBuehler 1m1 minute ago quote:Hannah Buehler @HannahBuehler 14s14 seconds ago quote:Hannah Buehler @HannahBuehler 1m1 minute ago quote:Hannah Buehler @HannahBuehler 25s25 seconds ago He's the one who said he verified authenticity though, so that was bullshit I guess? Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 01:49
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 "Mannor", Ms. Professional Journalist twitterperson?So when your lawyer fires you because he says you've lied to him... that's bad for your case, right? #iamthefivepointninepercent
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Sep 25, 2015 01:53
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Aphrodite posted:He's the one who said he verified authenticity though, so that was bullshit I guess? he reiterated that the bag was authentic, but he doesn't believe the story told to him wrt how the mother obtained it
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Sep 25, 2015 02:02
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whatis posted:he reiterated that the bag was authentic, but he doesn't believe the story told to him wrt how the mother obtained it Oh, I missed that part. Well that makes things weirder.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:05
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This case somehow keeps finding ways to get more bizarre.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:07
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flakeloaf posted:The crushing weight of statistics that show rape accusations that get this far are nearly always You can apply the same thing towards capital cases and wrongful convictions. Just because very very very very few people who are innocent and get executed, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen and you can't make the mistake of assuming that a particular case can't be immune to that because the odds are so astronomically small. The insult was in the N/V thread, not here. E: Gee, you mean the idea that this poo poo with the bag may have come from the victim's camp actually has credence? When the gently caress did my world transverse into the Law & Order Universe? Perdido fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 02:09
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lmao, the attorney is dropping the case because of pride and ethics and whatever, but apparently referred to the victim by her first name in the press conference jesus christ
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Sep 25, 2015 02:24
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Don't worry gang, I'm sure her and her family only did some shady poo poo to prove she's extra innocent.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:26
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oh god that's bad everything about this is bad
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Sep 25, 2015 02:26
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Do I like Chicago or not. My brain
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Sep 25, 2015 02:32
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That's probably a wrap for this case. Even if Kane really did do what he's accused of (and I realize the statistics show that he almost certainly did), no lawyer's going to touch this with a ten-foot pole now.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:35
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Like, all this poo poo with the evidence bag is why we have trials and don't just jump to conclusions because someone is a doody head and your feels are hurt.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:35
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Ugh. That's my response to this. Ugh.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:37
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Perdido posted:Like, all this poo poo with the evidence bag is why we have trials and don't just jump to conclusions because someone is a doody head and your feels are hurt. This is jumping to conclusions too, though. Edit: ugh, the drat server. I erased the original post here accidentally. The accuser doesn't need a lawyer for the criminal case to proceed. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 02:38
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reminder that this doesn't have any impact whatsoever on the evidence that was already collected and was going to be brought to grand jury, at all. it obviously doesn't look good, but it's still almost certainly going to grand jury
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Sep 25, 2015 02:42
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kane's attorney is going to give a presser now too. stay tune for more quotes from a huge rear end in a top hat
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Sep 25, 2015 02:58
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Paulocaust posted:So it's alright to make presumptions based on statistical outliers? So I guess you think it's alright to profile black people because they're statistically more likely to commit a violent crime? Or do you only operate under such assumptions when it fits your narrative? lmao cool leap bro 
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Sep 25, 2015 02:58
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Paulocaust posted:Don't worry gang, I'm sure her and her family only did some shady poo poo to prove she's extra innocent. Okay, you do know this girl hasn't been accused of anything and thus guilty and innocent are not adjectives that should be applied to her, right.
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Sep 25, 2015 02:59
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Kane's lawyer is gonna say some stuff. Live stream here: http://www.csnchicago.com/page/live
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Sep 25, 2015 03:10
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Aphrodite posted:This is jumping to conclusions too, though. Where am I jumping to conclusions? I don't believe I've offered any sort of opinion or judgment on what's happened with the evidence bag, beyond pointing out that there are multiple ways it could have ended up in the family's possession and that asinine theories like the police are on Kane's side, or that either lawyer would be engaging in misconduct are loving stupid. I've also tried to provide sources on stuff I do say so it doesn't look like I'm talking out of my rear end in a top hat. Since the lawyer has since excused himself from this (presumably because he doesn't want to be engaging in misconduct) I'd argue that I'm not really all that wrong about anything. Also, quote:Hannah Buehler @HannahBuehler 52m52 minutes ago I think I pointed out that this was a possibility (and linked to a story that talked about Erie County's evidence handling procedures) and, assuming this is true, welp.
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Sep 25, 2015 03:13
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Paulocaust posted:Don't worry gang, I'm sure her and her family only did some shady poo poo to prove she's extra innocent. We have no idea where/how this bag ended up in their possession. This could just be an incredibly retarded/overprotective mom calling up her friend Helen who works at the hospital to get one of them rape bag thingies.
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Sep 25, 2015 03:17
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Hustler-Lawyer shits all over a journalist trying to argue that all the evidence leaks were "pro-Kane." Goes on to say that the initial leaks back in August about "bite marks" are false. Also, Hustler Lawyer joked about the mug at the start of the presser, too. EDIT: He also deosn't rule out the possibility of counter-suing, and when it was suggested that the accuser may have been deliberately targeting him implied that it was "obvious" what was going on. Not really sure if that's necessary. Also said that an anonymous party called his offices regarding the bag and that he was told about it prior to the other lawyer's presser. This is becoming crazier and crazier. Perdido fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Sep 25, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 03:35
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whatis posted:kane's attorney is going to give a presser now too. stay tune for more quotes from a huge rear end in a top hat So, they're putting Kane in front of the media again?
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Sep 25, 2015 03:46
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Kane's gonna walk
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Sep 25, 2015 03:47
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DOOP posted:Kane's gonna walk You don't walk in hockey idiot lol what is this, baseball? Get your sports right, idiot
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Sep 25, 2015 04:04
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I don't know anymore x2
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Sep 25, 2015 04:35
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Paulocaust posted:Don't worry gang, I'm sure her and her family only did some shady poo poo to prove she's extra innocent. what shady poo poo would that be? Try to be exact here, as you seem to like being specific when you support something.
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Sep 25, 2015 04:47
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DOOP posted:Kane's gonna walk Kane was always going to walk away from this.
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Sep 25, 2015 05:02
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