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nomadologique
Mar 9, 2011

DUNK A DILL PICKLE REALDO
the "facts" of how osama bin laden was tracked down are irrelevant to the ceaseless bloodthirst that they express

it doesn't matter who told what to whom when, what matters is that through tireless effort and murderous zeal, the military might of the united states found osama bin laden and killed him

then the "story" was over, and there was nothing more to be said

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VectorSigma
Jan 20, 2004

Transform
and
Freak Out



The Puppet Master posted:

Language is thought

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

nomadologique posted:

the "facts" of how osama bin laden was tracked down are irrelevant to the ceaseless bloodthirst that they express

it doesn't matter who told what to whom when, what matters is that through tireless effort and murderous zeal, the military might of the united states found osama bin laden and killed him

then the "story" was over, and there was nothing more to be said

So if the facts are irrelevant how is Zero Dark Thirty different from any other movie where the "good guys" kill the gently caress out of everyone for 90 minutes?

nomadologique
Mar 9, 2011

DUNK A DILL PICKLE REALDO
bc it is not about "the good guys winning," which is a fantasy we use for escapism; it is about the real power of american military might in the world we actually live in, which will elicit a variety of responses

but if you think the movie comes down "on the side of" that might, you're reading your own biases into it

in both hurt locker and zero dark thirty, bigelow remains almost miraculously in a near-neutral position about what is unfolding; i'm sure she has her own (social, political, moral, ethical) ideas about what's what, but very little of it comes through

this is way closer to journalistic integrity than most documentaries you'll see

it's admittedly slightly disingenuous to frame your fictional story within supposedly historical events, and i think you could make a critique from that angle; but the movie isn't about which conversation happened when, it is about the verifiable situation: osama bin laden contrived to destroy the WTC; 10 years later he was murdered for it by American military forces as the end result of a tireless manhunt

how does that make you feel, to live in the same world as those events?

as much as you would like to, you don't live in the same world where john mcclane saved the nakatomi tower from high-tech thieves

you could, in the context of this conversation, posit that the film is the opposite of escapism

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002

didnt the movie imply obl was found through successful use of torture thats not politically neutral

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

TEAYCHES posted:

didnt the movie imply obl was found through successful use of torture thats not politically neutral

The CIA literally helped with the movie. It is de facto state propaganda.


But if the lesson is "America: we kill who we want" then I can't really argue. Except that this is the lesson of every movie about America, and also the news every day.

FistEnergy
Nov 3, 2000

DAY CREW: WORKING HARD

Fun Shoe

City of Tampa posted:

The Fatherland and The Motherland were already taken by less evil empires from recent history

Hooded Reptile
Aug 31, 2015

Agag posted:

The CIA literally helped with the movie. It is de facto state propaganda.


But if the lesson is "America: we kill who we want" then I can't really argue. Except that this is the lesson of every movie about America, and also the news every day.

http://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/collection/the-true-story-behind-pablo-escobar-and-narcos-20150908

Pablo escabar was whitey bulger in south america, until he over stepped his boundaries. Then we had to do something about it.



as long as they are dead, who cares.

Immortan
Jun 6, 2015

by Shine

TEAYCHES posted:

didnt the movie imply obl was found through successful use of torture thats not politically neutral

The funny part is that OBL wasn't even nearly as involved in 9/11 as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was and even denied involvement for approximately three years. He only "owned up" to it in 2004 a month or two before the US Presidential Election because he knew it would sway U.S. public support towards GWB (affirming his reelection, thereby weakening the country) hence keeping the U.S. military in Afg/Iraq. OBL didn't want the U.S. to pull out with a possible Kerry Administration. Plus, him claiming responsibility fit the U.S. boogeyman narrative quite nicely and he probably loved the notoriety as well. Also, Jeb! would still have you believe DUBYA "kept us safe" even after authorizing Saudi Nationals (some Bin Laden family members) to leave the U.S. less than a month after 9/11. I swear to god the Bush family is the most corrupt & stupid political dynasty that has ever graced this country.

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.
we should just drop pretenses and call it the homeworld

start getting some mileage out of those nukes

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

The Brown Menace posted:

agree, the homoland is more fitting

Segata Sanshiro
Sep 10, 2011

we can live for nothing
baby i don't care

lose me like the ocean
feel the motion

:coolfish:

The Protagonist posted:

we should just drop pretenses and call it the homeworld

start getting some mileage out of those nukes

homeworld makes it sound like we've got a bitchin galactic empire or something

let's at least get some poor bastards to mars first before we start that kind of talk

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014
"We run this planet!" *borrows money from China to fail to occupy two third world countries*

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Agag posted:

"We run this planet!" *borrows money from China to fail to occupy two third world countries*

you're an idiot

Nooner
Mar 26, 2011

AN A+ OPSTER (:

Agag posted:

"We run this planet!" *borrows money from China to fail to occupy two third world countries*

It's OK, Ronald Trump is about to make us great again

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Fojar38 posted:

you're an idiot

"My nationalism! :qq:"

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Agag posted:

"My nationalism! :qq:"

you think that the us is borrowing money from china

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014
"You don't understand, for you have a peasant's mind. The credit card company pays TRIBUTE to ME."

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002

the chinese buy treasury bonds. in a sense that means china owns some of our debt

OMFG FURRY
Jul 10, 2006

[snarky comment]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiOvM6SPjI
its because of this, op

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

TEAYCHES posted:

the chinese buy treasury bonds. in a sense that means china owns some of our debt

this is not the same as "borrowing from china" and you know it ths

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Agag posted:

"You don't understand, for you have a peasant's mind. The credit card company pays TRIBUTE to ME."

lol

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002

Fojar38 posted:

this is not the same as "borrowing from china" and you know it ths

its not technically identical but we like people to buy our bonds to help finance stupid poo poo like foreign wars

agag has the spirit of it somewhat close

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014
I thought the Bank of China issued the President of the US a personal credit card, which he subsequently swiped at General Atomics.

Fallows
Jan 20, 2005

If he waits long enough he can use his accrued interest from his savings to bring his negative checking balance back into the black.

City of Tampa posted:

The Fatherland and The Motherland were already taken by less evil empires from recent history

I was confused for a second when i saw less evil but quickly regained my bearings

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

TEAYCHES posted:

its not technically identical but we like people to buy our bonds to help finance stupid poo poo like foreign wars

agag has the spirit of it somewhat close

he's literally making the same argument the tea party does ths

buying treasury bonds is not the same as loaning money regardless of it being called "debt"

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Fojar38 posted:

he's literally making the same argument the tea party does ths

buying treasury bonds is not the same as loaning money regardless of it being called "debt"

What a relief! Keep doing it forever, I say.

starry skies above
Aug 23, 2015

by zen death robot

That Robot posted:

I mean seriously, who came up with "the Homeland" to refer to the US?

it's like some Reichstag fire decree fatherland-ish bullshit if you know what I mean

what is your opinion, GBS?

I read a book by a conservative author named Samuel P. Huntington (who wrote "Clash of Civilizations" which neocons kept quoting after 9/11) and in this book (titled "Who are we?"...about Latino immigration into the USA) he makes the point that, traditionally, Americans have been mostly indifferent to the natural physical splendor of their nation. Not so indifferent, mind you, as to not set up those great national parks, but indifferent in the sense that this physical splendor doesn't really impact the ethos of the American spirit, the ethos of Americana, as it were. He points to the word "homeland" as being unusual for that reason and sounding positively un-american.

Fojar38
Sep 2, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->

Agag posted:

What a relief! Keep doing it forever, I say.

as long as us government bonds remain among the safest investments in the world yes this is what is going to happen

hohhat
Sep 25, 2014

Fojar38 posted:

as long as us government bonds remain among the safest investments in the world yes this is what is going to happen

Global domination is inevitable.

Cubone
May 26, 2011

Because it never leaves its bedroom, no one has ever seen this poster's real face.

Fojar38 posted:

as long as us government bonds remain among the safest investments in the world yes this is what is going to happen
#repealthe14th whos with me

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.

Agag posted:

Global domination is inevitable.

that or extinction really

gnarlyhotep
Sep 30, 2008

by Lowtax
Oven Wrangler

That Robot posted:

I mean seriously, who came up with "the Homeland" to refer to the US?

it's like some Reichstag fire decree fatherland-ish bullshit if you know what I mean

what is your opinion, GBS?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Homeland_Security#Creation

That Robot
Sep 16, 2004

ask me anything about robots
Buglord

starry skies above posted:

I read a book by a conservative author named Samuel P. Huntington (who wrote "Clash of Civilizations" which neocons kept quoting after 9/11) and in this book (titled "Who are we?"...about Latino immigration into the USA) he makes the point that, traditionally, Americans have been mostly indifferent to the natural physical splendor of their nation. Not so indifferent, mind you, as to not set up those great national parks, but indifferent in the sense that this physical splendor doesn't really impact the ethos of the American spirit, the ethos of Americana, as it were. He points to the word "homeland" as being unusual for that reason and sounding positively un-american.

thank you for the thoughtful response

some people really want to poo poo up this thread with kneejerk references to china

too bad they're trolls who are assholes irl

quakster
Jul 21, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

City of Tampa posted:

The Fatherland and The Motherland were already taken by less evil empires from recent history
shoulda gone with the cousinland, imo, imho

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

no american calls it "the homeland" except for the most brazenly fascist among us

zimboe
Aug 3, 2012

FIRST EBOLA GOON AVOID ALL POSTS SPEWING EBLOA SHIT POSTS EVERWHERE
I'm literally retarded

Nooner posted:

It's OK, Ronald Trump is about to make us great again

Ronald Trump. Riot!
That needs to go mainstream.

zimboe
Aug 3, 2012

FIRST EBOLA GOON AVOID ALL POSTS SPEWING EBLOA SHIT POSTS EVERWHERE
I'm literally retarded
Yah, "Homeland" is just a little bit too reminiscent of Der Fatherland( Nazzies) or the Motherland (Rooshians).

George Orwell , I thinx, could see into the inevitable future. I think that is why he shot himself.

E: Bonerland is better. Thank you, Matt Groening.

"VE MUST DEFEND DER BONERLAND AGAINST ALL BONERTRAITORS AND ANNIHILATE WRONGTHINK WITH ALL OUR VIGOR!!!

zimboe fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Sep 29, 2015

zimboe
Aug 3, 2012

FIRST EBOLA GOON AVOID ALL POSTS SPEWING EBLOA SHIT POSTS EVERWHERE
I'm literally retarded
BONERLAND UBER ALLES!
...
OK, I'm spent.

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ghlbtsk
Apr 19, 2005

these bath mats
are
GORGEOUS
You know what we should call it . . .

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