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cthulusnewzulubbq posted:it validates a myth that people get raped because of what they wear myth?
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Oct 5, 2015 19:05
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cthulusnewzulubbq posted:it validates a myth that people get raped because of what they wear This is why islam has womens wear burkas fyi.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:05
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ArtIsResistance posted:myth? that was arbitraryC's point and it seems to make sense like, you would have to show that skimpy outfits cause rape before it gets accepted
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Oct 5, 2015 19:07
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Toadvine posted:Holy poo poo shut up moron
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Oct 5, 2015 19:12
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ArbitraryC posted:I get that a major point of this is 'women should be allowed to wear what they want and not get raped' but don't the stats already point to that being a debunked myth? There's the whole conservative narrative that women shouldn't dress provocatively because it will attract unwanted attention but I could have sworn I read somewhere that clothing wasn't actually a statistically relevant factor in who gets raped in the first place. I don't think you're ever going to get any real evidence there one way or another, though, honestly. There's so many entangled factors (age, activity at time of the attack, location, etc) on something that's sketchily reported to begin with that it just seems like a fool's errand.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:15
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THE DOG HOUSE posted:ok how about this Ok how about this Women in the us are sexually assaulted and raped far more often than "fakes" claim to be. Most victims of sexual assault don't even loving tell anyone about it. Women do not feel safe in this country, and that needs to change.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:15
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ArtIsResistance posted:uhhh if they want to destigmatize the word shouldn't they walk around in business suits and doctor coats and call themselves sluts instead of walking around naked and calling themselves sluts? seem like a bunch of dumb-o's to me Nice username/post combo. ArbitraryC posted:I realize that and I addressed that in the post you quoted, but the thing is that's wrong in the first place. It's simply not true that clothing has anything to do with how likely you are to get raped, and i think that's an idea we should be fighting. If you were a parent and it was known that miniskirts made it 10x more likely to get raped would you rather your daughter make a political statement about what should/shouldn't happen by wearing one or would you rather she just not wore a miniskirt and didn't get raped. To them it's not a matter of victim blaming it's the same thing as being careful to shred paperwork that could be used in identity fraud or doublechecking they locked the front door before going on vacation. The people who go on about clothes don't want someone to get raped for what they were wearing they just want to live in a world where you can avoid getting raped by what clothes you wear, so long as the discussion is in such a frame they're never going to think their view is wrong. What we need to emphasize is that no such causality exists in the first place. The slutwalk tries to sidestep this discussion by saying it shouldn't matter in the first place, which is entirely true, but it's not an approach that will change people who are misinformed and view this as an effective way to prevent becoming a victim. I feel like you are being really pedantic about an entirely unimportant topic. Women who wear "slutty" clothes are not more likely to be sexually assaulted. The fact that people denigrate these slutwLks as just a bunch of women trying to get attention is representative of the misogynistic culture that dominates our society. SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 19:16
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SHISHKABOB posted:Ok how about this well was it "rape rape" or something else?
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Oct 5, 2015 19:19
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I hope those sluts cornered that dude and really went to town on his junk
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Oct 5, 2015 19:20
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Got a bad case of the legitimate rape hmmmmm lucky that woman's bodies can shut all that down harder than they shut down the op
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Oct 5, 2015 19:20
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The slutwalk is probably one of the dumber ways to raise awareness. "Proud Sluts" aren't going to get the non-SJW crowd on-side with a very important issue. Obviously victim-blaming is lovely, and everything should be done to combat it. There's just got to be a better way.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:22
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Strudel Man posted:If it is, it's the first I've heard of it. Or, rather, I've only ever seen it argued by giving individual examples of, say, the rape of an 80 year old nun, which while horrible is not statistical evidence that mode of dress has no effect on the chance of being raped. Myth: Sexual assault is an impulsive act. Seventy-five percent of all assaults are planned in advance. When three or more assailants are involved, 90% are planned. If two assailants are involved, 83%. With one assailant, 58% are planned. Myth: Persons who dress or act in a sexy way are asking to be sexually assaulted. Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing. (I've also seen something like less than 5% act "provocatively" whatever that means) I've seen this stuff said a lot over the years, which is why it stuck out in my mind.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:22
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Strudel Man posted:If it is, it's the first I've heard of it. Or, rather, I've only ever seen it argued by giving individual examples of, say, the rape of an 80 year old nun, which while horrible is not statistical evidence that mode of dress has no effect on the chance of being raped. there are studies and almost universally the prominent risk factor seems to be not a question of "how sexy" but "how vulnerable"
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Oct 5, 2015 19:23
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ArbitraryC posted:I realize that and I addressed that in the post you quoted, but the thing is that's wrong in the first place. It's simply not true that clothing has anything to do with how likely you are to get raped, and i think that's an idea we should be fighting. If you were a parent and it was known that miniskirts made it 10x more likely to get raped would you rather your daughter make a political statement about what should/shouldn't happen by wearing one or would you rather she just not wore a miniskirt and didn't get raped. To them it's not a matter of victim blaming it's the same thing as being careful to shred paperwork that could be used in identity fraud or doublechecking they locked the front door before going on vacation. The people who go on about clothes don't want someone to get raped for what they were wearing they just want to live in a world where you can avoid getting raped by what clothes you wear, so long as the discussion is in such a frame they're never going to think their view is wrong. What we need to emphasize is that no such causality exists in the first place. The slutwalk tries to sidestep this discussion by saying it shouldn't matter in the first place, which is entirely true, but it's not an approach that will change people who are misinformed and view this as an effective way to prevent becoming a victim. Slutty clothes don't happen in a vacuum, they often go with behaviours that do in fact lead to more rape, like excess partying and binge drinking
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Oct 5, 2015 19:24
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hmmm I'll take a controversial "anti-rape" stance
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Oct 5, 2015 19:25
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Rutibex posted:Slutty clothes don't happen in a vacuum, they often go with behaviours that do in fact lead to more rape, like excess partying and binge drinking as far as im concerned people should feel safe enough to party naked and not get raped namaste
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Oct 5, 2015 19:25
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Rutibex posted:Slutty clothes don't happen in a vacuum, they often go with behaviours that do in fact lead to more rape, like excess partying and binge drinking which supports what sort of parade
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Oct 5, 2015 19:26
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Moridin920 posted:as far as im concerned people should feel safe enough to party naked and not get raped can I at least beat of looking at you at the party?
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Oct 5, 2015 19:26
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Frosted Flake posted:The abortion walk is probably one of the dumber ways to raise awareness. "Proud Abortion-havers" aren't going to get the non-SJW crowd on-side with a very important issue. Obviously victim-blaming is lovely, and everything should be done to combat it. There's just got to be a better way. the truth... is in the... middle
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Oct 5, 2015 19:28
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tbh if you're an environment filled with sluts and excessive partying and the only way you can get your dick wet is to rape someone then you're a super pathetic sack of poo poo on top of being a rapist.Frosted Flake posted:The slutwalk is probably one of the dumber ways to raise awareness. "Proud Sluts" aren't going to get the non-SJW crowd on-side with a very important issue. Obviously victim-blaming is lovely, and everything should be done to combat it. There's just got to be a better way. nah bc the point isn't to convince people who aren't going to be convinced, the point is to get them to shut the gently caress up with their stupid rear end backwards opinions.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:28
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Lawrence Gilchrist posted:the truth... is in the... middle there is no causal relationship argument in your stupid false equivalency
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Oct 5, 2015 19:29
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ArbitraryC posted:Here are a couple "facts" (for universities I don't see very good citation) I see on most universities sexual assault related pamphlets cthulusnewzulubbq posted:there are studies and almost universally the prominent risk factor seems to be not a question of "how sexy" but "how vulnerable"
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Oct 5, 2015 19:32
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SHISHKABOB posted:Nice username/post combo. I think i'm being entirely fair and empathetic. If you truly think that dressing differently could reduce rape, it's going to be very difficult to convince you that encouraging someone to dress differently to avoid rape is a bad thing. Even if you agree with the message of "people should be able to leave themselves vulnerable without anyone taking advantage of them", you are a pragmatic person and would rather play to reality than by how things "should" be. The slutwalk is simply not going to sway these people, nor will just calling them bigots. I think a much more effective approach to cut down on this kind of victim blaming (which again comes across to those people as a matter of telling people to look both ways before you cross the road) would just be getting the knowledge out there that attire has no effect on this crime.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:32
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"Teaching men not to rape" is really, really dumb since most rapists are serial rapists. The best way to deal with rape is to improve law enforcement's ability to handle rape cases so that serial rapists can be removed from the streets.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:32
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DoctorStrangelove posted:"Teaching men not to rape" is really, really dumb since most rapists are serial rapists. The best way to deal with rape is to improve law enforcement's ability to handle rape cases so that serial rapists can be removed from the streets. sounds bogus
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Oct 5, 2015 19:34
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I really like short mini skirts
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Oct 5, 2015 19:34
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Rutibex posted:Slutty clothes don't happen in a vacuum, they often go with behaviours that do in fact lead to more rape, like excess partying and binge drinking So basically you're saying that victims of sexual assault are not actually victims but yeah you know, maybe if she didn't go out, drink, party, socialize, talk to people, live near people, or exist, then she wouldn't get raped. If excess drinking and binge partying were the things that caused rape, then why don't men get raped as often as women?
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Oct 5, 2015 19:34
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SHISHKABOB posted:So basically you're saying that victims of sexual assault are not actually victims but yeah you know, maybe if she didn't go out, drink, party, socialize, talk to people, live near people, or exist, then she wouldn't get raped. they aren't wearing short mini skirts?
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Oct 5, 2015 19:37
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SHISHKABOB posted:If excess drinking and binge partying were the things that caused rape, then why don't men get raped as often as women? A discrepency in predatory sexual behavior between the sexes. Shocking. Also these are risk factors for any sex, with different outcomes. I can't decipher your strange point. cthulusnewzulubbq fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 5, 2015 |
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Oct 5, 2015 19:38
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ArbitraryC posted:I think i'm being entirely fair and empathetic. If you truly think that dressing differently could reduce rape, it's going to be very difficult to convince you that encouraging someone to dress differently to avoid rape is a bad thing. Even if you agree with the message of "people should be able to leave themselves vulnerable without anyone taking advantage of them", you are a pragmatic person and would rather play to reality than by how things "should" be. The slutwalk is simply not going to sway these people, nor will just calling them bigots. I think a much more effective approach to cut down on this kind of victim blaming (which again comes across to those people as a matter of telling people to look both ways before you cross the road) would just be getting the knowledge out there that attire has no effect on this crime. I think I misunderstood what you've posted, and vice versa, because I do not think that the way the victims of sexual assault behave is something that needs to be addressed. However, I believe that things like slutwalks are important because of the marginalization of women. I think your plan is sound, I just think that women need to express their anger at the situation in order to encourage others, and to gain acknowledgment.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:40
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Moridin920 posted:nah bc the point isn't to convince people who aren't going to be convinced, the point is to get them to shut the gently caress up with their stupid rear end backwards opinions. Convinced of what? There's no "Pro-Rape" group here. As people have pointed out here, dressing like you were "asking for it" is pretty thoroughly discredited. e: Being obnoxious about the safest possible position on an issue with no opposition must be pretty empowering for them. I hope they bought expensive lingerie for the occasion.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:40
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It's very sad the SlutWalk happens while the Healthy At Any Size myth is being perpetuated.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:40
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Amber Rose confused why dressing like a literal prostitute makes people treat you like you are a whore. I'm curious if any of the 55k dollars she raised for this slutwalk will go towards de-criminalizing sex work in the United States so women can stop being abused for being literal whores. I bet it'll go to something stupider like new gender studies programs at the local campus.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:40
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Frosted Flake posted:Convinced of what? There's no "Pro-Rape" group here. Sure there is. It's all the people going 'stupid sluts!' or the people going 'legitimate rape gets shut down' (and by extension then if you got pregnant from the raping, that means 'you liked it'). Doesn't matter whether dressing provocatively actually causes more rape or not, what matters is people after the fact saying 'well she was asking for it anyway' which most definitely does happen. The whole origin of the slutwalk thing is because some police captain in Toronto basically said 'well don't dress like that and you won't get raped.' Whether or not it is statistically a true factor in causes of rape is irrelevant; we're talking about ordinary people's perceptions and rationals behind justifying the rate of sexual abuse. The point isn't 'slutty clothes cause rape, stop raping us' the point is 'we are never to blame for getting raped. It is the rapist's fault.'
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Oct 5, 2015 19:42
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cthulusnewzulubbq posted:A discrepency in predatory sexual behavior between the sexes. Shocking. No, it is not shocking to us because we exist within the culture that has created the idea that men are naturally just gonna rape chicks. That's loving idiotic. It is not an inalienable law of nature that women should live in fear of rape.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:44
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DnD is leaking again!
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Oct 5, 2015 19:44
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Moridin920 posted:Sure there is. It's all the people going 'stupid sluts!' or the people going 'legitimate rape gets shut down' (and by extension then if you got pregnant from the raping, that means 'you liked it'). Of course it's relevant. If some idiot told me apples were purple my reaction would not be "it doesn't matter what color my apple is" it would be " it's red, you loving feeb"
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Oct 5, 2015 19:44
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SHISHKABOB posted:I think I misunderstood what you've posted, and vice versa, because I do not think that the way the victims of sexual assault behave is something that needs to be addressed. I guess where we disagree is I feel like the slutwalk at it's core is validating these people's misconceptions. The slutwalk's existence gives credit to the idea that women are more likely to be assaulted based on how they dress because instead of saying 'that doesn't actually happen' they're saying 'it shouldn't happen'. They're engaging a hypothetical enemy where they should be dispelling a myth imho, even if I fully agree with their message.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:45
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cthulusnewzulubbq posted:Of course it's relevant. If some idiot told me apples were purple my reaction would not be "it doesn't matter what color my apple is" it would be " it's red, you loving feeb" You're not getting it duder. It's like if someone beat the poo poo out of you randomly on the street and then you go to the police to report it and they go 'shouldn't have worn a red shirt, idiot!' The red shirt had nothing to do with you getting beat up. The reaction afterwards is the problem/issue they're trying to address. ArbitraryC posted:I guess where we disagree is I feel like the slutwalk at it's core is validating these people's misconceptions. The slutwalk's existence gives credit to the idea that women are more likely to be assaulted based on how they dress because instead of saying 'that doesn't actually happen' they're saying 'it shouldn't happen'. They're engaging a hypothetical enemy where they should be dispelling a myth imho, even if I fully agree with their message. You know what DOES happen though? Police not taking sexual assault seriously because 'she was dressed like a slut anyway.'
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Oct 5, 2015 19:45
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ArbitraryC posted:I guess where we disagree is I feel like the slutwalk at it's core is validating these people's misconceptions. The slutwalk's existence gives credit to the idea that women are more likely to be assaulted based on how they dress because instead of saying 'that doesn't actually happen' they're saying 'it shouldn't happen'. They're engaging a hypothetical enemy where they should be dispelling a myth imho, even if I fully agree with their message. I think that's a fairly good point. I like the suggestion of women marching in labcoats, business suits, etc. "Rape can happen to anyone" is a good message.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:46
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