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Tezzor posted:yeah people tend to believe that when invading colonialists take your land by force they should be expelled by force Do you realize how many empires have conquered Israel in the course of history? Do you realize how many empires have conquered Israel in the course of the last 500 years or so? Hint: it is more than one
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Oct 8, 2015 16:31
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loquacius posted:
XMNN posted:its not hamas or israel theres another option and its caring about the millions of innocent palestinians who are living in an apartheid state which kidnaps tortures evicts thieves and murders at will can u even read
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Oct 8, 2015 16:31
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loquacius posted:If I try to kill you and my gun jams do I get off the murder rap then or what If you came to my house, evicted me and then shot me for resisting, would my brother get a murder charge for attempting to assassinate you with a comedy cork-gun?
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Oct 8, 2015 16:31
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Tezzor posted:yeah people tend to believe that when invading colonialists take your land by force they should be expelled by force How's that expelling going? Not well, right? So they're just killing people for no benefit at this point.
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Oct 8, 2015 16:33
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XMNN posted:can u even read don't root for Hamas or an Intifada then because that'll just lead to more of them getting killed Lilbeefer posted:If you came to my house, evicted me and then shot me for resisting, would my brother get a murder charge for attempting to assassinate you with a comedy cork-gun? yes  The analogy here isn't a comedy cork-gun, it's like a kitchen knife. It could absolutely kill me if the circumstances were correct, and he absolutely would get a murder charge for trying to kill me with it.
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Oct 8, 2015 16:33
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loquacius posted:don't root for Hamas or an Intifada then because that'll just lead to more of them getting killed XMNN posted:can u even read
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Oct 8, 2015 16:33
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ill give you a hint: i never said i supported hamas or another intifada in fact i said the opposite
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Oct 8, 2015 16:36
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the palestinians should be polite and just wait for isreal to absorb all of their remaining land. only then, once it's "too late" to ever recover sovereignty can the negotiations begin. the international community promises to help once the violence stops, we promise, pinkey swear!
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Oct 8, 2015 16:37
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If you're not rooting for Hamas or an Intifada I guess we don't actually have anything to argue about SO YEAH I legitimately think the only way this conflict can ever deescalate in the slightest is if Netanyahu is killed or the opposition somehow manages to actually force him out and keep him out, and neither of those seems likely so the only thing we can do in the meantime is root against direct escalation Hamas being forced out of their leadership role would help to make that happen but it's not likely to happen first
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Oct 8, 2015 16:37
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loquacius posted:Do you realize how many empires have conquered Israel in the course of history? Do you realize how many empires have conquered Israel in the course of the last 500 years or so? Hint: it is more than one do you realize that this argument is just The Blacks Owned Slaves Too
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Oct 8, 2015 16:37
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I blame the British personally
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Oct 8, 2015 16:38
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EXTREME INSERTION posted:I blame the British personally i blame the ottomans, they really should have got their poo poo together for the modernity party
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Oct 8, 2015 16:39
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Tezzor posted:do you realize that this argument is just The Blacks Owned Slaves Too the argument is "it's not meaningful to frame this narrative as the Israelis being 'colonialists' and the Palestinians being 'natives' because the word 'native' doesn't meaningfully apply to anyone currently living in this particular region" but unless you're rooting for an Intifada we're mostly disagreeing on semantics EXTREME INSERTION posted:I blame the British personally this OTOH is always safe
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Oct 8, 2015 16:41
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I like that they make it sound like a weather event "potential intifada forming over the weekend"
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Oct 8, 2015 16:43
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Yeah last nights intifada has my rear end in a top hat on fire today
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Oct 8, 2015 16:43
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loquacius posted:don't root for Hamas or an Intifada then because that'll just lead to more of them getting killed We are getting dangerously close to GBS 1.0 here... OK then, let me rephrase: If you came to my house, evicted me and then shot me for resisting, called in some tanks to clear out my street, then called in a phosphorous strike on my neighborhood, then who the gently caress cares I probably deserved it. DTI Whoops that wasn't even a question
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Oct 8, 2015 16:47
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for some reason people think that each conquering empire in the levant replaced all the people that lived there with their own people rather than just taking over the top positions as happened everywhere else empires conquered (i think its to imply the palestinian ownership of their land is illegitimate so its ok if israelis test weapons on them)
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Oct 8, 2015 16:48
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I like how if I try to argue that an Intifada is counter-productive and rooting for Hamas because you are against killing civilians is stupid, that gets parsed into "I want to commit genocide and support all actions taken by the Israeli government because I lust for death"
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Oct 8, 2015 16:53
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loquacius posted:I like how if I try to argue that an Intifada is counter-productive and rooting for Hamas because you are against killing civilians is stupid, that gets parsed into "I want to commit genocide and support all actions taken by the Israeli government because I lust for death" That's actually fair enough. Sorry
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Oct 8, 2015 16:54
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Lilbeefer posted:That's actually fair enough. Death To Lilbeefer
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Oct 8, 2015 16:55
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Stop doxxing me
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Oct 8, 2015 16:56
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XMNN posted:its not hamas or israel theres another option and its caring about the millions of innocent palestinians who are living in an apartheid state which kidnaps tortures evicts thieves and murders at will ur an idiot mate hth
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Oct 8, 2015 17:39
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loquacius posted:the argument is "it's not meaningful to frame this narrative as the Israelis being 'colonialists' and the Palestinians being 'natives' because the word 'native' doesn't meaningfully apply to anyone currently living in this particular region" but unless you're rooting for an Intifada we're mostly disagreeing on semantics yeah they're not natives because some of them are descended from people who came in 500 years ago. lol
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Oct 8, 2015 17:40
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native americans: not really native since they immigrated here 40,000 years ago
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Oct 8, 2015 17:40
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this huoney pot thread will result in glorious bans
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Oct 8, 2015 17:41
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loquacius posted:I want to commit genocide and support all actions taken by the Israeli government because I lust for death Mods
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Oct 8, 2015 17:41
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Tezzor posted:yeah they're not natives because some of them are descended from people who came in 500 years ago. lol Ok so if a white person is descended from a Mayflower settler are they now Native American? Is 400 years that significantly different from 500? This is a stupid argument which means nothing and will accomplish nothing but I am yuppie scum still on my lunch break so I can indulge you
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Oct 8, 2015 17:43
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loquacius posted:Ok so if a white person is descended from a Mayflower settler are they now Native American? Is 400 years that significantly different from 500? they are native in comparison to the hypothetical chinese army that is attempting to expel them by force, yes
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Oct 8, 2015 17:58
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Tezzor posted:they are native in comparison to the hypothetical chinese army that is attempting to expel them by force, yes Ok what if more or less the entirety of the hypothetical Chinese army had been born in America e: to make it extra clear none of this matters in the slightest and is just pseudo-intellectual wankery because both of us are pseudo-intellectual wankers
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Oct 8, 2015 18:00
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unpacked robinhood posted:lol a mohamed shanked another beardo in jerusalem this is the headline 100 years from now when generation z is writing for the New Amsterdam Times on ChronoTwitter
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Oct 8, 2015 18:01
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loquacius posted:Ok what if the entirety of the hypothetical Chinese army had been born in America i would shed no tears if americans killed them, would you?
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Oct 8, 2015 18:01
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loquacius posted:Ok what if more or less the entirety of the hypothetical Chinese army had been born in America Are u trying to rules lawyer israel out of responsibility for their ongoing apartheid against the palestinian people lol
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Oct 8, 2015 18:02
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Tezzor posted:i would shed no tears if americans killed them, would you? You mean if Americans started just killing Chinese-American people regardless of whether they were in that army or not? Yeah, that would be bad even if the hypothetical army of Chinese-Americans was doing bad poo poo. Even if the army is bad, reprisal killings are still bad. Killing is bad and we should generally discourage it, that's my controversial opinion
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Oct 8, 2015 18:03
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Oberleutnant posted:Are u trying to rules lawyer israel out of responsibility for their ongoing apartheid against the palestinian people lol no, I'm having a pseudo-intellectual wankfest with a fellow pseudo-intellectual wanker
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Oct 8, 2015 18:04
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loquacius posted:I like how if I try to argue that an Intifada is counter-productive and rooting for Hamas because you are against killing civilians is stupid, that gets parsed into "I want to commit genocide and support all actions taken by the Israeli government because I lust for death"
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Oct 8, 2015 18:05
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its black or white on this website loquacious, pick your side -or- make non sequitur remakrs
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Oct 8, 2015 18:10
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I am anti-violent-escalation and pro-unsteady-maintenance-of-the-status-quo-until-we-can-get-leftist-government-elected-on-both-sides-but-mostly-in-Israel-at-which-point-real-change-can-occur because that's not perfect but it's the only way things won't get actively worse and have a shot at getting better
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Oct 8, 2015 18:15
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loquacius posted:I am anti-violent-escalation and pro-unsteady-maintenance-of-the-status-quo-until-we-can-get-leftist-government-elected-on-both-sides-but-mostly-in-Israel-at-which-point-real-change-can-occur because that's not perfect but it's the only way things won't get actively worse and have a shot at getting better Martinlutherkingwhitemoderatespeech.rtf
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Oct 8, 2015 18:16
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INFANTada you say ??? Color my avatar interested
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Oct 8, 2015 18:17
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therattle posted:It must be nice to have such a simple, black-and-white view of things. Saves you from having to do any of that awkward thinking. all your kind of liberal jews do is go around undermining any solidarity from emerging within liberal circles in regards to israel, eg, "no, it's not right to call it apartheid, it isn't as black and white as that and the Palestinians are also to blame as much as the Jews..." It's literally the EXACT same tack that every liberal jew in the media takes in regards to Israel and it's really tiresome.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:33
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