Why Should We Care About Property Rights?

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Why Should We Care About Property Rights?

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Heavy neutrino posted:

There's god knows how many historical examples of non-state groups establishing states under their control, but Molyneux is a dishonest idiot who can only deny the idea by narrowing it down to the specific example of a modern corporation overthrowing a modern state.

Weren't the Dutch/British East India companies basically historical examples of this happening?

# ¿ Nov 1, 2015 00:57

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 10:07

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Cerebral Bore posted:

When your utopia literally is warlordism in everything but the name, it might be time to rethink your position.

I've always pointed to Somalia and Afghanistan as fantastic examples of libertarian ideology in practice. :v:

(Coincidentally, better known as... "Failed states" :ssh:

)

# ¿ Nov 1, 2015 01:03

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Tesseraction posted:

Those don't count because they're not majority white.

Yeah, it reminds me of the similar conservative (read: racist) argument as to why single-payer nationalized healthcare only works in homogeneous countries and never could be possible in the U.S.

Strangely, I never saw a "You Must Be This Asian to Ride" sign when I got quality, cheap healthcare when I was in Taiwan, so who knows? :shrug:

# ¿ Nov 1, 2015 01:16

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Nessus posted:

What is very funny to me in a way is that this is usually cited as some kind of axiomatic fact, as opposed to say a post-hoc rationalization of many Americans being quite racist, and being unwilling to improve their situation if it will also help minorities.

What's worse is that it's assumed axiomatically because said homogeneous populations are too biologically alien for Western/American medicine so as to be incompatible for single-payer healthcare here.

That was more or less the response I got in an argument about nationalized healthcare some odd years ago with a conservative friend of mine.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2015 16:31

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Cerebral Bore posted:

Your scenario relies on unrealistic assumptions about Libertopia. First of all, how would the child have made it past my minefields and automated machingun turrets to get to my SUV in the first place?

Someone repost the Libertopia fanfiction where the protagonist scurries past the feral wolves gathered in the lobby of his workplace's office building.

[e]: Never mind, I've got it:

quote:

I sat in my living room sipping my cup of chicory and looking out my window and pondering my choices. overhead flocks of ghang gliders soared through the soot, taking advantage of the unregulated skies to make their morning commute. I shifted, somewhat uncomfrtable. i needed to make a decision soon, before my neighbor rumbled out of his driveway in his Abrams tank and the vibrations from the tearing of pavement made the decision for me

I read through the billboards on the sidewalk again. Joe's Sewage: faster than anyone! poo poo-B-Gon [as i read the name I silently thanked z0r for the death of the nanny state and the freedom to curse in public]: no clogs! there were five others that I passed over, but I knew, that morning, I was a poo poo-B-Gon man. I trotted outside and grabbed the sewage hose that sat dribbling on my lawn. where was the nearest linkup station? I jogged down the street, briefly warming my face on the fire from my neighbor's house, before I tripped on a stray corpse and fell face first onto the sidewalk. As I pushed myself up and wiped the blood [not mine] from my hands, I saw the linkup station. After paying my thirty dollar day-fee [a small price to pay for freedom] and jogging the mile back to my house, I was soon happily doing my business. Like a free man

I jammed my foot on the gas and grinned as my engine roared. It was free of catalytic converters and other emasculating controls, and at last, was the robust and mighty machine I had always known it could be. I flipped my sunglasses open and jammed them over my eyes and the cloud of black smoke behind me was witness to the power of my works. The rumble of gravel beneath me was like glorious harmony to the howl of the engine. For nearly fifteen seconds I was grinning like a maniac as the car jolted and crunched down the crumbling street. Of course, I had to slow and toss my tiny cube of gold into the toll box, and wait for my neighbor to wave me past, but soon I was back to full speed, living life as free as the birds used to do before we shot them all.

I downshifted into third as I caught side of an unfamiliar barricade ahead. Smoke rose in a plume behind the stacked wood and bodies. As i came to a stop a man with a cigar gritted in his teeth and a shirt soaked red and cracked sunglasses waved me to roll down my window.

"What seems to be the problem?"

"New repairs on this stretch. Going to need double tolls till we've got it fixed"

I grimaced as I searched around my glove box for an extra cube. At this rate I'd never make the public hanging...

I run into the center of bear-baiting ring. My stomach churns as I face the beast. Howls and cries from the crowd wash over me like hypodermic needles at the beach. I feint left but as I push off the blood-soaked earth my foot explodes through the my shoddily-constructed shoe. With a silent curse for whatever nameless ten-year-old sewed it I kick it off and dash to the right. Thank z0r I always ccw, I think to myself as I air-somersault past the bear. The crowd of mercenaries roar at the sight of my acrobatics.

If i can win the crowd then perhaps the king of this stretch of road will let me go...good thing i have an ace up my sleeve.

Make that two, I think as I pull out my twin desert eagles, locked and loaded with the finest hollow-tip bullets that our local toy/gun store carry. The recoil from both firing at once knock me back against the blood-drenched wall of the arena but I keep firing at the bear.

As it finally staggers back and crashes to the ground I air somersault forward again and kneel, crossing my arms in front of my chest and holding my guns against my shoulders and feeling the cheers of the crowd wash over me. I have won my freedom. I let only the briefest pity for the less skillful travelers wash over me, but content myself with the thought of penning a scathing letter against these mercenaries tonight. Then I grin. Score one for the market, motherfucker

Shoeless and gasping I run down the road toward the city, dodging shards of glass and the bones of long dead children. I had paid the last toll with my car itself. Once the consortium has purchased enough of sick and dying bodies from the local hospital to grind into cement, we'll have our new roads [or so the ads promise], but it's too late for my car.

I hear a faint stirring in the underbrush that stretches out toward the asphalt. With all the nimbleness of an unregulated manufacturer responding to demand, I do a three-quarters cartwheel while simultaneously firing ten shots from my dual DEs. I chuckle at the crashing and groaning from the brush in the silence after my deafening barrage. One step closer to that new road.

I take off running again. By three p.m. I'm at the office. As I approach the elevators there's a deafening crash and smoke comes from behind the elevator doors. I note the name of the manufacturer and use my bleeding feet to write a message of warning on the floor of the hall. I ignore the moans and take the stairs to my office.

My manager scuttles toward me as I enter. "Eight hours late? You're fired. And you can be sure no other company will hire your scummy rear end in the future"

My left eye twitches as I calmly respond. "You forgot one thing."

"What's that?"

"There's only one monopoly we don't tolerate. A monopoly of force. "I backflip as I pull out my DEs and start firing. The screams of the dying fill the air like mercury. This is one market that just got regulated.

Before I leave the office, I loot the bodies of my dead coworkers, murdered by my hand, like an IRS employee mailing a 1040. I leave the office a tomb; a blood offering to the hungry god I worship now. Stepping back into the stairwell is like stepping through a looking glass. S am wearing shoes ripped from the dead feet of my former boss. Call it an audit.

With a ninja's grace I leap from stair to stair as I exit the building. Light bulbs flicker and dim; the local smallpox epidemic is two weeks old and they've almost run out of bodies to burn for power. They're talking about charging customers one child per year as fuel. Some people were upset about it but at least the government isn't behind it.

My shoulders are heaving as I crash through doors into the lobby. A pack of wolves lurk around the receptionist's desk. Night is almost here. They begin to howl as I jog outside into the gathering darkness

I check my watch�6 o'clock. I had meant to run a few errands before going home. Just one, actually. I run down the street until I see a dimly-lit verizon store. The salesman doesn't even blink an eye when I enter, dripping blood and gore, desert eagles jammed in my waist. Then I pull out my guns and point them in his face.

blinks.

"I paid 5 bucks more last month, you know?" i growl between gritted teeth

"So?" he says

I put the guns back in my waist. The salesman exhales in relief

Then i kneel and draw my katana. With one smooth motion I behead the clerk.

"I wish to file a complaint," I say, as gouts of arterial blood spray paint the ceiling.

At last I'm home. I recline back in my babyskin chair and swirl some orange juice in a mug. As i bring the mug up to my limits i feel a sudden pain in my lip. I fish around in the juice and pull out a shard of glass. Rolling my eyes i toss it on the pile in the corner.

My pet tiger pads into the room. Not for the first time i offer a silent thanks that no gang of criminals can tell me not to keep it. Then i see the blood dripping from its jaws.

I curse as I ease out of my chair and walk into the next room, following the blood. The corpse of my neighbor's son is still warm on the floor of the kitchen. I turn on the alarm system and set up the house defenses just in time for the doorbell to ring.

I look out my front window; my neighbor is carrying a shotgun and has a crazed look on his face. I call out:

"What do you want?"

"I want that damned tiger."

"No."

"GIVE ME THE TIGER."

"Come and get him."

My neighbor shudders as he considers his options: 1) wait to ambush me later, 2) attack now, 3) write a scathing letter and mail it to all our neighbors. He cocks his shotgun and fires it at the door.

My defense system activates. With fury and power that would warm the heart of a Blackwater soldier it reduces my neighbor to ash. As the whir of the chainguns slows i walk back to my babyskin chair. it feels soft. it feels warm. it feels like freedom.

Alarms wake me from my slumber. Not my house; the neighborhood co-op alarms are ringing. I listen to the sound. Next to me my slave girl stirs. I casually backhand her across the mouth to keep her quiet. Three horns followed by a low ringing�possible outsider invasion.

I check to see that her chains are secure then lower myself out of bed. A low whistle summons my tiger. I press a button next to my bed; a slave child scurries in. I order him to bring me my katana.

Wrapped in my robe and with my sword strapped across my back I slip outside into the ringing night. The noises are coming from the south. I see a neighbor across the street slap his wife in the face as she begs him not to leave and I thank z0r no slave has tempted me.

The light from torches flicker in the distance at the watch point. There are already several neighbors gathered in a circle. I can hear a low muttering but I cannot see what they have surrounded

I reach the outside of the circle with my tiger at my side. It carelessly bites one of the men in the circle on the leg. He falls to ground and i take his place and see...

It is worse than I had feared...a face as dark and soulless as the night sky looks up at me. Tears stream down his face. I shudder at the thought of more of them...out in the darkness...I lope away from the circle and call my tiger to my side. Tonight...we hunt.

I see the fear in their eyes as i approach the campfire. I wear a chain of tiny ears around my neck and my face is spattered with blood. I grip the head of my enemy in my right hand.

Ashen-faced, my neighbor asks me of the forces in the darkness

"it's a group seeking medicine for sick children," I reply. "it was." I suppress a giggle. I toss the little head into the middle of the circle.

"Are you ok?" one asks

The others mumble, afraid to look me in the eyes

I look him in the eyes. He twitches. I say

"Sanity is like a rule. A regulation. I am free."

I heft my katana in my right hand, then bring it to his neck

"Will you question me, or will you do as I say?"

It is not a question.

"A man chooses" I say.

They kneel before me. Alarms wail in the distance. I see the earth soaked in a tide of blood. I finger the necklace of ears like a rosary.

"We are strong," I say. "Together we are free".

They murmur in assent. One man remains quiet. I remove his head, then hand it to one of my followers.

"We are free. Put it on a stake, to warn those who would oppose us."

I order the rest of the men to secure the neighborhood gold. We will keep it at my house; I will disperse it as necessary. the gold is mine...the precious...

...

I sit on a throne of skulls inside my new house. Palace. I run my fingers through the head of the slave who kneels at my side. In my other hand I grip the femur of a dead enemy. A slave used a rock to hone the end of the bone to sharp points. The walls and floor are red, spattered with blood and smeared with dirt; the ceiling is black with soot. My tiger stalks outside.

When the snows come we move to the caves in the hills for warmth. I will spread my seed.

A beast stirs. I breath in the fetid air, thick with blood and death. Law is dead. I am the law. The market is dead. I am the market. I scratch at my fur loincloth and crush a louse. Government is dead. I am the government. God is dead. I am a God.

Somewhere in the distance i hear the howl of the alarms and the chatter of guns.

And this is heaven.

But you remember one thing: if you screw up just this much, you'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber dog poo poo out of Hong Kong!

EPILOGUE

The cave is dark but warm. The women huddle under furs and blankets for warmth during the day. I lead the hunting parties out in search of game but any creature larger than a chipmunk has long since been slaughtered. We hunt squirrels and rodents with our AK-47s; sometimes a scrap of meat is still left after the hail of bullets.

One of the women is heavy with my child. I alone may mate with them. The heads of the men who objected rot on stakes outside the cave mouth.

One evening after we have returned from our mighty hunt with two squirrel carcasses and a dead robin someone almost tripped on, we spy a man in the distance staggering toward the cave. We watch as he winds his way through the badlands. black snow falls, mixed with ash. his powder blue shirt is badly torn and bloody and there is no spark in his eyes.

He begs us for shelter. I explain that our food supplies are low but that there is room in our cave if he will hunt and accept my rule. He nods, exhausted, and starts to shuffle past me to the fire.

Then i catch sight of the patch on his sleeve. A stylized white eagle on a field of blue. The mark of the oppressors. I grab his collar and growl in his face "you're one of them"

"What? What are you talking about"

"One of them. the patch. the eagle."

"P-p-please...I just...delivered mail"

I grip his throat in my hand and lift him and shout "A CRIMINAL!!!!!"

My tribe huddles around me.

"HE WORKED...FOR THE GOVERNMENT!!!"

I see the rage in their eyes. Hooting, they jump up and down, calling for blood. I lower the man to the ground and they mutter with disappointment. I beckon for a slave to bring me my club: all sharpened bone and shattered glass. I put my mouth next to the man's ear and i grasp the club and hold it in front of his eyes. "If you want a vision of the future," I say. "Imagine my warclub, smashing a human face, forever."

Then i swing it against his head, and it crunches, and he falls to the ground. "We eat meat tonight" I say with a smile. The cheers are deafening.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 7, 2015

# ¿ Nov 7, 2015 21:27

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

VitalSigns posted:

I don't need to be able to give you all the details, because the free market will include the best minds in the country, and once the government gets out of the way, those minds will be unleashed to solve these problems faster and betterer.

Couldn't it be argued that an anarcho-capitalist libertarian system incentivizes only the meanest, baddest motherfuckers to the top? Sure, this might correlate with intelligence, but only those best able and willing to consolidate power (ie capital, the means of production, etc) and would immediately set up barriers (physical and economic) to prevent others from encroaching on their accumulated power. The Bush family is pretty good evidence on this story of consolidated power and privilege not resulting in more intelligent or wise guardians of society.

As it is, hedge funds and Wall Street firms tend to promote those with psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies. I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd link to these studies. Nevertheless, these are supposed to be the captains of industry and vanguards of capitalism and show, time and again, they are willing to screw over society if opportunities arise (eg subprime lending, manipulating LIBOR, etc).

So, given this evidence, why would removing regulations and the State suddenly result in a net boon for society? Why wouldn't said power brokers go "hey thanks!" then pillage society even harder with said checks against their destructive potential removed?

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Nononono, that would never happened, not at all because, because you see, *loosens tie, runs hair through increasingly disheveled hair* the market would necessarily intervene in those cases where- and I don't mean "intervene" here like those statist men with guns but rather that mutually involved arbitrators who, yes, would need on occasion to be armed, *begins sweating noticeably* but that's not reason to think that devolution into feudalism, which wasn't even that ba, err, uhh HELP THIS GUY'S AGGRESSING AGAINST ME!!!
*mashes Valhalla DRO panic button*

This made me laugh and chuckle a whole lot; thanks for that, friend.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 9, 2015

# ¿ Nov 8, 2015 23:55

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Buried alive posted:

1) Praxeology, ergo your evidence is wrong. QED.
2) Companies only get away with this because people put misled trust in these checks. With no checks people will naturally become more savy about where their business/money goes, stop doing business with unscrupulous ne'er do wells and go to a competitor instead. If there are no competitors to fill that niche, some enterprising individual will fill that gap.

For any questions or objections, see 1).

I get where you're coming from here (tee hee), but taking this approach in good faith:

1.) Wouldn't it be more efficient for society to avoid falling into pitfalls in the first place via proper safeguards and checks against abuse versus letting people get maimed or killed and then learning from others' mistakes?

2.) Wouldn't powerful, established individuals and companies set up barriers to entry for a given gap (eg an old-school-Ford-esque company sell cars only in black and has a monopoly on the market; if you want a different color, gently caress off) to maximize profit/rent-seeking, thereby preventing enterprising individuals the chance to fill other niches in the market? This happens already today in monopoly/oligopoly-controlled markets, so what would stop this in Libertopia?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2015 01:34

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

That's a lot of words to say "praxeology is axiomatic; I'm right, you're wrong, shut up."

# ¿ Nov 9, 2015 08:24

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

I was listening to the BBC World Service on my way into work this morning and they were discussing in a group talk about genetic modification with regard to economic inequality, which got me to think about this thread again.

Two questions:

What is there to stop, given our economic system as it exists now and for the foreseeable future, a minority of genetic 'haves' and genetic 'have-nots'? In other words, one set of the population who can afford to scrub out debilitating genetic handicaps such as Crohn's disease/Down's syndrome/etc and the other segment to be left saddled with such conditions? Or, even further, to select for genetically superior traits to produce a group of privileged Michael Phelps-esque superathlete offspring to compete against the genetically underprivileged?

Also, what's to prevent privileged parents from selecting for genetic disabilities (deafness, etc) for whatever reason? One of the speakers fell back on regulations/etc in the UK to prevent this sort of malselection, but what's to stop a 'no gubmint interference in my child rearing!' sadist from consulting with a less scrupulous doctor in, say, a foreign Libertopia that turns a blind eye on this so they can go back and put little Eygore-junior bastard child in their Josef Fritzl basement back home later to abuse? Why do future progeny have to suffer the consequences for something they weren't even around to voice their objections to in the usual "let others learn from your mistakes in dealing with Bad Faith Company" in Libertopia no regulations land logic?

That's my inquiry for today, I appreciate the response, thank you.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2015 13:02

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

I kind of expected that, but I was curious about the kind of answers I'd get. Thanks again.

Makes Libertopia seem kind of barbaric the more you dig into it, no?

Curiously, said discussion participant was dodging the question on air by saying we already have inequality in ability to pay in today's healthcare schemes already so nothing would change with evolutions in healthcare technology. It's strange how despite advances in technology that should benefit us all, we keep seeing these changes as threats due to being filtered through archaic economic structures. Hm...

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Nov 28, 2015

# ¿ Nov 28, 2015 21:23

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

paragon1 posted:

It's a combination of barbaric and childish. Libertopia is a mix of longing for horrible things we've mostly cast aside or things that never existed in the first place.

I don't know if it's longing so much as it is plain ignorance of basic history lessons like Rousseau's Social Contract, feudalism/absence of a strong centralized state, and the experience of the American Gilded Age, among other things.

Like, people are straight up asking "it sucks having to pay taxes, what if we tried getting rid of the State, what would happen?" without being aware things like failed states or externalities exist already and can be studied without experimenting for ourselves.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Nov 28, 2015

# ¿ Nov 28, 2015 22:31

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Literally The Worst posted:

What I have never understood is why Americans feel so much guilt for screwing the Indians over in the first place. The simple fact of the matter is this: they lost, and we won. Their culture was inferior, and we conquered it.

Now, however, it seems that we are expected to feel sorry because instead of killing them all of we shunted them off to the side? Worse yet, we seem to be giving their culture weapons to use against ours. Granted, these weapons are certainly insufficient to destroy us; I am not trying to suggest that there is a conspiracy for world Indian supremecy. Yet we are giving them free economic advantages because we feel bad?

If we must feel bad, here is what I say:

Seal the borders to reservations. Allow anyone to leave who wishes, but they may not return, and nobody may visit the reservations. Allow them to rule themselves, and do not affect their lives as long as they remain on the reservations. If they leave the reservation, then they become American citizens and they must find their way in the world like any other American citizen.

----

In some ways, I view the prison rape situation as almost ideal. It is cruelty created by apathy, not revenge and not corruption, and it DOES deter crime. Sadly the aids issue is too valid a point for me to ignore.

Holy poo poo, Qualnor must have been an awful poster.

I'm imagining a literal overweight smug 1800s colonialist complete with pike hat and monocle.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 17:53

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

VitalSigns posted:

No see those other failed states didn't have a free market, which we would have without a state to enforce contracts, mediate disputes, and keep trade routes clear because I'm sure the mafia can do a better job once they have to compete with the yakuza and the cartels and the Jets/Sharks for my business.

But aren't things like mafia/feudal lords/warlords/cartels/etc just non-state actors just filling in the vacuum left behind by an absence of a unified state? Why do they seem to proliferate mainly in areas a state authority can't or won't control? They seem to basically be a state authority functionally (although not in name) but even more chaotic and violent and less accountable.

Why is this a preferable alternative? :psyduck:

Hell, just look at the period between the collapse of the Chinese dynastic system and the Chinese civil war between the Nationalists and the Communists. It was basically an unending grind of warlords duking it out in areas outside of cities like Shanghai and Peking which led people like Chiang Kai-Shek to prominence in trying to reassert order in lawless areas and others like Mao Zedong to infiltrate said rural areas.

In this light, DROs are basically glorified tribes and warlords with a fresh coat of paint.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Nov 29, 2015

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 18:05

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

spoon0042 posted:

All that's important is that the state doesn't have a monopoly on force. Yeah, you have to not think about it too hard and ignore how it's never worked out in human history. (Libertarianism in short right there.)

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Between the alternatives, at least a state monopoly on violence is more predictable and more accountable than a free-for-all between an oligopoly of warlords and gangs where you can be randomly murdered by Gang Blu when they confused you for belonging to Gang Red territory when you're actually Joe Peasant who wants to be left alone.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2015 18:28

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

I don't think hired security in Somalia is exactly competing for your patronage. It's more like a "pay us or die" kind of ultimatum.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2015 21:56

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

paragon1 posted:

IT LIVES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZvUMmDF0I4

This is surprisingly high-quality and entertaining. Thank you for this.

You should make this into a regular podcast.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2015 16:53

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

JRod, if you're still reading this, when DnD posters of varying stripes and opinions who normally antagonize each other on the regular unite to collectively point out why your sociopathic ideology is garbage, it's time to maybe take a step back and rethink things.

And then :frogout:

.

Don't come back.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2016 22:46

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Putting in my two cents that Prom. is a sock puppet account of Jrod's. The reg date is too close to Jrod's reappearance and disappearance for it to be a coincidence and it wouldn't be hard for someone like Jrod to forcefully put on a fake posting style to make his alt. account defending himself seem distinct enough to be legitimate. I don't think it's a tactic outside of possibility, especially after his recent growing saltiness.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 01:59

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

BaurusJA posted:

Just a small add to the misbegotten concept of Libertopia. If a person truly wanted to find a society where personal and individual effort and power determines anything and everything, everything is for sale, and the government does not intervene at all in most things, then one would find the closest analogue in Mogadishu or truly any other failed state/region/city.

And I think that is a pretty damning indictment of Libertarian politics.

*insert racist Libertarian argument about how Somalia and Afghanistan don't REALLY count, because reasons*

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 19:47

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Nolanar posted:

Don't be absurd. Not even mises.org woul--

"Hrm, yes. Violence there is because the government is just invisible. Yes, that's the ticket. :shepface:

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 21:41

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Here's a question for jrode:

Why are you still here? I mean this sincerely: what do you hope to still accomplish here?

If it's to still try and convince people about the merits of libertarianism or win people over, I don't understand how you could rationally see that's still possible. You've been posting here literally for years now. Pretty much anyone who posts or has posted in DnD knows about you by now. Despite spending countless paragraphs and pages of posts to (selectively) debate people, there's little if any evidence of you winning people over to your side; if anything, you've only managed to alienate more people and drive people away from libertarianism by demonstrating it as an intellectually and morally bankrupt ideology.

At best, you've served as a rhetorical punching bag for people to flex their debating muscles and practice as a living strawman for libertarianism while they still remain unconvinced. At worst, you're a constant target of scorn and contempt as people outright disparage you for your racist, sociopathic views and mock you for being publicly scammed multiple times and illegally selling bootlegged movies while still praising the values and ideology that abused you in the first place.

So, again, if you haven't seen any positive gains in your efforts at all in the past several years, why do you still post here? What do you see that you've accomplished from being here at SomethingAwful? What is your rationale for continuing to stay despite being very blatantly unwelcome here?

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Feb 5, 2016

# ¿ Feb 5, 2016 10:16

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Rhjamiz posted:

This is an amazing question and probably the most important.

His ideal business is selling bootlegged Hong Kong DVDs.

Case closed. :ms:

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 00:41

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Captain_Maclaine posted:

Asked and answered, statist.

Yeah, uh, gently caress that Rothbard guy.

Every single person is vulnerable to becoming a bum on the street should they run into a financial calamity like having their business (and the loans it depended upon) become bankrupt or, say, a major medical emergency like cancer or a heart attack. Our (lack of a) safety net is the only thing separating paycheck-to-paycheck entrepreneurs from living on the streets, whether they are a Captain of Industry-et-Master of the Universe or Joe the Plumber, no matter how much their inflated ego might tell them otherwise.

Hell, even Libertarian poster child Ayn Rand ended up on food stamps and relying on public assistance at the end of her life due to costs arising out of her lung cancer condition.

Economic status is a financial state, not a caste.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 00:53

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

If jrode does not answer my question, I'm going to engage him in memespeak until he does.

5/5 BRETTY GOOD!

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Feb 6, 2016

# ¿ Feb 6, 2016 03:56

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Rhjamiz posted:

Are... are you sure?

He has a face more hosed up than Freddy Krueger's.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 01:44

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

Page 74 of This Mighty Scourge by McPherson. Here is the essay in question, The Saratoga That Wasn't.

Read it and weep, jrod.

edit: Library of Congress has a copy of the manuscript, dated July 22, 1862. https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trt025.html

Causing jrod to weep violates NAP, y'know!~

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 05:37

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Hi Jrode!

Please answer this:

Your Dunkle Sans posted:

Here's a question for jrode:

Why are you still here? I mean this sincerely: what do you hope to still accomplish here?

If it's to still try and convince people about the merits of libertarianism or win people over, I don't understand how you could rationally see that's still possible. You've been posting here literally for years now. Pretty much anyone who posts or has posted in DnD knows about you by now. Despite spending countless paragraphs and pages of posts to (selectively) debate people, there's little if any evidence of you winning people over to your side; if anything, you've only managed to alienate more people and drive people away from libertarianism by demonstrating it as an intellectually and morally bankrupt ideology.

At best, you've served as a rhetorical punching bag for people to flex their debating muscles and practice as a living strawman for libertarianism while they still remain unconvinced. At worst, you're a constant target of scorn and contempt as people outright disparage you for your racist, sociopathic views and mock you for being publicly scammed multiple times and illegally selling bootlegged movies while still praising the values and ideology that abused you in the first place.

So, again, if you haven't seen any positive gains in your efforts at all in the past several years, why do you still post here? What do you see that you've accomplished from being here at SomethingAwful? What is your rationale for continuing to stay despite being very blatantly unwelcome here?

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 07:43

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

YF19pilot posted:

Also, please answer my question, Would an airplane built by Libertarians have square windows? Or if that's too broad, Would you build an airplane with square windows?

Can I go ahead and answer this one on behalf of jrode?

The short answer would be something like this:

Yes, Libertarians would make airplanes with square windows. In glorious Libertopia, there would be no pernicious government regulation to stifle the freedom and innovation of airplane entrepreneurs. It would be up to the personal preference and discretion of the consumer to choose between planes with square or rounded windows. Less regulation means more freedom of choice!

However, there is the sadly unfortunate downside that bad actors who make Somali Airlines-quality planes that tear apart mid-flight would also have a stake. Thankfully, after a few broken planes and some negative reviews on Yelp, the hand of the free market will correct itself and force the bad actor out of business. A few casualties are an acceptable price for freedom. Freedom isn't free, after all.

Until then, caveat emptor, my friend! :shepface:

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Feb 9, 2016

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 15:10

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Twerkteam Pizza posted:

I do not care if this is the thread where we contain Jrod and therefore this is more relaxed on the rules, but I reported this for racism. This is nothing but straight up racism and if the only punishment that we as a forum can do is give this babbie a time-out than so be it.

gently caress you Jrod you sexist, racist, and fascist piece of fecal matter.

Yeah, wow, that quote you have is suuuuuper racist. *long whistle*

It's not like there have been news reports of Westerners from all parts of the globe leaving to join ISIS for the past several years or anything. :rolleyes:

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 16:18

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Nolanar posted:

Yeah, it's kind of sad to see someone so tied to holding the same positions and being Right about Everything Forever. The thought of having the same opinions I had as a teenager is loving terrifying to me. I'm actually going through somewhat of a philosophical ~~meltdown~~ exploratory period right now, due in some small part to the better-quality posts in this thread introducing me to things I hadn't considered before. It's actually part of why I'm curious to hear from honest libertarians. I want to find the strongest arguments from each political tradition and see what I make of them, and what they make of each other. I'm already trying to reconcile ideas I agree with from the liberal, socialist, and anarchist traditions, why not add more to the mix? But I genuinely can't find libertarian thinkers beyond Nozick who aren't absolutely vile, and I have trouble finding any conservative philosophers at all (Burke? Maybe?).

Jrod is not an honest libertarian.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 16:22

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Zanzibar Ham posted:

So jrod, what's your genius idea for a business that would make you billions and lord of your castle, if only that dastardly federal state wasn't hampering your ingenuity at every turn?

e: also how are DRO fees in any way, shape, or form different from taxes?

Bootlegged Hong Kong Blu-Rays, clearly.

E: We should charge Jrode an hourly rate for as much personal therapy and one-on-one rhetorical (as in, pointing out writing flaws) counseling we've given him for free for years now.

It's what Von Mises would have wanted. Free market, biiiiiitch!

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 9, 2016

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 16:39

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Man, I keep chomping at the bit with that Jazz music question since I loving love Jazz music and sincerely wish Jrode could see past his blinding racism to appreciate it.

How much longer do I have to wait before I can give my answers? I'd tag it with spoilers, promise.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 17:21

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Cingulate posted:

To be fair, I think the much more salient islamist terrorists committing murders in the West have so far been exclusively of "Middle eastern ethnicity" and, less common, black, right?

(Of course, in Russia, there's plenty of clearly Caucasian Islamist terrorists - again, people literally from the caucasus.)

From what I understand from the BBC World Service, ISIS is bribing subsistence farmers and others from Sudan and Somalia (I believe) $1,000 USD - the equivalent of a year's salary - to come fight in Libya and Syria. So it's possibly becoming more common for Africans to join their ranks as ISIS exploits the poverty of developing/undeveloped countries.

I may have mixed up al-Nusra and ISIS from the report, but you get the idea. I'm sure fade5 or somebody will correct me on the particulars.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 9, 2016

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 18:42

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Igiari posted:

I remember that! I recall there being a bit like:

Jrod: All bureaucrats are morally terrible and should stop doing their jobs and move into the private sector
RuanGaucho: What if you were offered a high paying government job?
Jrod: ...Okay so maybe not ALL bureaucrats...

The only moral bureaucracy is my bureaucracy.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 19:07

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

fade5 posted:

Huh, I hadn't heard of that, I had heard that ISIL is sending fighters to Libya because they're getting beaten up so much in Iraq and Syria. I had also heard about Somalis (either refugees or their kids) from Minnesota (of all places) being radicalized and leaving to join ISIL or Al Shabaab:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneapolis-community-struggles-with-isis-recruiting-tactics/
Note that these people would not generally be described as Middle Eastern, although Jrod would be just as scared of them for similar (racist) reasons.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/12134806/Isil-recruiting-migrant-army-of-the-poor-with-1000-sign-up-bonuses.html

I originally heard it on BBC Radio but it looks like it's getting play elsewhere as well. Essentially, it's about ISIS recruiting an 'Army of the Poor' from Chad, Mali, and Sudan with $1,000 signing on bonuses, which is the year's salary I mentioned earlier.

Probably better suited for the Middle East thread; but, to tie it to this thread, I'd be interested in hearing Jrode's response on whether this constitutes economic coercion and whether or not that's a real concept to contemplate in Libertarianism (ie NAP) and whether economic violence is a motivating force to him.

Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 9, 2016

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 19:52

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

fade5 posted:

Huh, interesting. (And depressing.) I went ahead and crossposted this and my response over to the Middle East thread to continue it there, since Jrod is almost certainly not going to answer your question.

Say, prove me wrong Jrod. Answer Your Dunkle Sans's question.

It's weird - Libertarians are so obsessed with state violence and the use of force/aggression, but are strangely silent when it comes to economic coercion. To them, it's merely a conscious choice or "ethnic time preference" to work minimum wage jobs and are confused (or worse, give tacit approval of) when you bring up things like income inequality or poverty traps as things that exist.

The poor just choose to be poor, therefore it's their fault for being poor and losers in the free market.

Hmmmm...

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 20:35

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Who What Now posted:

To be fair must jelly belongs in the trash.

Jelly is the tool of the Statist, comrade. :ussr:

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 21:03

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

Exactly.

Tom Woods, jrod's 10th most influential thinker, believes

1. School segregation is constitutional and should never have been outlawed
2. Black kids do better/have better self esteem at all-black schools
3. Desegregating schools has not improved black educational performance
4. It is black peoples' own fault they have worse educational outcomes than whites

We can read between the lines here!

Reading between red lines is as simple as black and white.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2016 23:58

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

jrodefeld posted:

The answer is that I've got some sort of a problem and I don't mind wasting my time writing thousands of words for an un-appreciative audience. I never really expected anyone here to actually be persuaded, though even if they were, they are unlikely to admit it to me.

Honestly, I build up a certain reservoir of frustration about politics especially during an election season. I think just working out what I believe by writing it down has value. What keeps me going on this website is that I receive push-back to what I am saying. Even through all of the substance-less replies and name-calling in my direction, there are enough of you who respond with substance to keep me coming back to this site when I feel the need to vent about politics.

However, I think I should be welcomed here as a libertarian contributor if only to enliven the discussion. It seems like some of you are just hoping I'll go away so you can have general ideological conformity. But what fun is that?

The curtain is pulled back, all is revealed.

Thanks for answering me!

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 00:54

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 10:07

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

Something tells me that one of the major reasons for the delay between posts is that Jrode has to artfully sculpt each response to perfection and then admire their beauty and craftsmanship at length before finally clicking on 'Submit Reply'.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2016 01:47

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Why Should We Care About Property Rights?

«‹›2 »