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I've been playing this for a couple months. It's a nice change of pace from Hearthstone but the power level of epics+legendaries is almost comical. You can't really make any good high-level deck without a couple of core high-rarity faction cards which are basically as follows: Lyonar: holy immolation, arclyte regalia, sunriser (for heal variants) Songhai: tusk boar, lantern fox, juxtaposition, mask of shadows, spiral technique Magmar: silithid elder, metamorphosis, makantor warbeast, kujata Vanar: voice of the wind, aspect of the mountain, spirit of the wild Vetruvian: third wish, aymara healer, time maelstrom, rasha's curse, portal guardian, star's fury, wildfire ankh Abyssian: spectral revenant, vorpal reaver, deathfire crescendo, soul grimwar, spectral blade Keep an eye out for these cards. If you want the list of super high tier decks, here: http://forums.duelyst.com/t/prozacs-tier-lists-decklists-drafting-guide-etc/20121 In terms of best factions for starting out, lyonar can make decent decks with just ironcliffes and divine bond and a bunch of medium sized creatures and abyssian can make weenie rush decks that can get you up to rank 0 Stay away from Vetruvian starting out, they are complete garbage without their good high-rarity cards which is basically all the good cards in the entire faction. Songhai is also pretty hard to elevate from mediocre to amazing because many of the important pieces for deck themes are relatively expensive. Magmar is okay without its good cards, it has so many removal spells that you can probably get pretty far just off the cheap ones. I'm not really sure about Vanar because I never see any common themes in low-rank decks, just a bunch of random cards thrown together that works I guess. On the bright side, the last few patches have nerfed 2 of the most ubiquitous neutral legendaries so decks across the board have gotten cheaper. koolkal fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 06:43
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Also I browse their forums relatively often and they were offering kickstarter refunds at some point in the past apparently so you could try that if you really don't like the f2p part of it, no idea if there was some time limit or stipulations or anything
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Nov 12, 2015 06:51
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GreyPowerVan posted:Anyone have a recommendation for my Magmar deck? I've only been playing like 4 days and I'm stuck at rank 6, I keep winning one, losing one, winning one, losing one. Drop the dancing blades, add flash reincarnation if you can afford them, dampening wave if you can't You're basically playing an aggro magmar deck and dancing blades doesn't really make a lot of sense since killing weak enemy minions with a 5 cost minion with only 3 attack doesn't really help that goal, dampening wave is a lot better for board control because it costs 0 mana and lets you make better trades and still develop good minions with your mana
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Dec 18, 2015 23:49
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I'm not really sure where you want to take your deck, songhai has approximately 50 different lists because there's a few cards which are really broken and then a bunch of pretty good cards which work because of the broken cards. And most of them are high rarity and cost a lot of dust. Tusk boar is one of those really broken ones and 3x is core in basically every songhai deck ever, even spell-heavy burn lists will run 3x magi and then 3x tusk boar as their only minions. Expensive but it's so far beyond saberspine in power level it's silly. You should try to get 3x gore horn, 3x killing edge, and use mana vortex over ancestral diviniation for cycle. These are all pretty solid cards that fit in a lot of different lists. Kaido is really bad IMO and not worth running in any songhai list. Chakri is fine as mediocre 2-drop that has a lot of upside. I don't use them now that Jaxi exists but I know a lot of songhai players still do. Phoenix fire is pretty useful for damage and board control. More juxtapositions is good but obviously expensive and not necessary. Bloodrage mask is okay if you want to go spell heavy. Sword of mech is pretty solid as a board clear option and general decent minion since it has 3 hp. If you have any twilight sorcerers or alcuin loremasters throw them in. They're extremely strong since they let you get even more inner focus and twilight is a pretty good body. They're eoucs so pricey but they're better than primus or dagger kiri since they have decent bodies and they give you more spells which are better at contesting the board and they often go in other factions as well. Gorehorn + inner focus is a 3 mana combo that kills a silverguard knight and leaves you with a 4/4 and you can follow that up next turn with a twilight sorcerer or alcuin to get the inner focus back and be really far ahead on board which is way better IMO than trying to delay with beefy weak minions like shieldmaster or kiri while hoping you draw the lantern combo pieces.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:37
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koolkal posted:I'm not really sure where you want to take your deck, songhai has approximately 50 different lists because there's a few cards which are really broken and then a bunch of pretty good cards which work because of the broken cards. And most of them are high rarity and cost a lot of dust. Also forgot to add this link: https://forums.duelyst.com/t/mings-songhai-decks/12273 He has a lot of pretty standard archetype lists.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:40
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Well, there's only like 100 common cards which make up like 75% of the cards you see in packs or gauntlet choices so there's a good chance you'll see a lot of repeats
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Dec 26, 2015 20:25
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I predict 1/3 of games past rank 5 being songhai. They got an insane boost with these nerfs to basically every other good faction. Archon spellbinder is still such a strong tech against them though. The prophet card is interesting, could bring a more token aggro abyssian back into relevance along with araki.
koolkal fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 05:37
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After playing around with it, new 3rd wish might be scarier than the old one. Most factions have no good way deal with something like a jaxi played on the backrow followed up with a 3rd wish on it. You can legit win games just with those 2 cards in your opening hand right now. koolkal fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 17:45
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Avasculous posted:A 4/5 for 5 that only ever brings back a Jaxi or Primus Fist would be a pretty great card. Yeah it's a really strong card, probably 3x in most non-aggro/burn decks.
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Jan 2, 2016 19:50
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Their removal isn't really amazing and you can't build decks around it, they're mostly support spells for some kind of minion based deck (aggro, midrange, maybe a slower midrange/control?). The 3 aspect spells are all decent offensively or defensively and hailstone is extremely good for keeping board control midgame but every vanar deck is going to rely on a lot of minions. Jaxi + warmaster + voice + keeper + ancient grove + razorgore is a pretty good curve of minions and a card like hailstone can kill your opponent's tempo if you send something like an Aymara or Ironcliffe back to hand.
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Jan 4, 2016 21:07
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This is a tempo-based game, +1 mana cost is enough to change cards from OP to unplayable. Comparing mana burn to egg morph is silly. One costs 2 mana and the other costs 4. Being able to mana burn away a jaxi for an even 1:1 is fine. Are you really going to egg morph a jaxi and be happy? Natural selection is too situational and metamorphasis costs a billion. Also magmar was already weak against songhai and they're now so much worse. Being able to kill a 4/4 gorehorn with mana burn + hero punch is good. Having to now spend double mana to kill a 3-drop from songhai is horrible. koolkal fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 20:00
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Yeah it's probably my biggest problem with the game. So many decks are defined by their faction's high rarity broken cards like mekantor or holy immo and it makes it really hard to branch out because budget decklists work fine until you get to higher ranks and start losing because your cards are just worse. My winrate with songhai after crafting 3x tuskboar went up ridiculously because the card is just straight up broken to the point that it will win you games because you just toss it out and charge face and your opponent is forced to smack it and take 6 damage from your 2 drop.
koolkal fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jan 12, 2016 |
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Jan 12, 2016 06:28
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Songhai is probably the best faction in the game right now. It's been cleaning up in tournaments and ladder decks generally won't run anti-songhai tech like spellbinder due to both the dust cost and the mana cost. In a lot of matchups it's too slow or too weak of an effect for ladder. Here's an aggro songhai: 3 Inner Focus 2 Juxtaposition 2 Mist Dragon Seal 3 Saberspine Seal 2 Chakri Avatar 3 Flameblood Warlock 3 Jaxi 3 Kaido Assassin 3 Pheonix Fire 3 Tusk Boar 1 Alcuin Loremaster 3 Gore Horn 2 Killing Edge 2 Saberspone Tiger 2 Lantern Fox 2 Spiral Technique Here's what I run and I got s-rank with basically the same list last month (used to have onyx bear seal but I see way less fatties this season): 3 Inner Focus 2 Juxtaposition 3 Mist Dragon Seal 3 Saberspine Seal 2 Mask of Shadows 3 Jaxi 3 Pheonix Fire 3 Tusk Boar 2 Alcuin Loremaster 3 Gore Horn 3 Sword of Mechazor 3 Killing Edge 2 Twilight Sorcerer 2 Lantern Fox 2 Spiral Technique Mulligan for minions, keep inner focus if you have relevant minions (gorehorn, sword of mech), keep alcuin against vetruvian (a good way to deal with 3rd wish is your own 3rd wish). Throw out Tusk Boars to kill 2/3s and force a general swing or sometimes just send it face and force something. Basically if you have 2 mana and tusk boar you should probably be doing something with it. And keep a hand slot open although even people at S-Rank will often forget to check your hand size and waste effort in killing an already-dead Tusk Boar. Inner focus will let you make big plays around turns 3-4 because you can do things like gorehorn + inner focus and kill a silverguard knight from hand while developing a 4/4 all for 3 mana. Sword of mech + Inner Focus = your AoE for dealing with spammy vanar and abyssian decks. You can often race aggro decks especially if you get a good mask backstab hit, abuse lantern fox for slower matchups and spiral technique is just so much damage against decks relying on healing mystics and rejuvenators for weak heals. I have the most trouble with lyonar because sundrop elixir + martyrdom + tons of taunts mean they can just run your hand empty. In that matchup I find I usually need lantern fox + seal plays to burst 15-20 damage and maybe a spiral technique the next turn.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:14
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PaintVagrant posted:Just griding daily quests and doing the puzzles is a great way to learn all the cards and gets lots of gold. Too many artifacts. Abyssian artifacts are okay but nothing special and you want way more minions. And you don't have much healing considering you're going to want to attack a lot with your general and you're not really an aggro deck. I'm not really sure what to change that doesn't change the spirit of your deck because I would cut like 5 of the artifacts down to 1x grimwar, and 1-2 of the other ones (1 horn, 2 blade is what I'd prefer) and add cards like primus fist and healing mystic and shadow reflection but then it's just a mostly normal abyssian aggro deck with grimwar + tracer as an additional win condition
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Jan 23, 2016 22:11
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Yeah the only one listed as something you should DE that I think is decent is Ancient Grove
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Jan 25, 2016 08:17
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The lantern fox nerf is expected (and mostly kills the card) but that MDS change is weird since Jux usually serves the same purpose
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Jan 28, 2016 22:07
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I think all the new cards are bad tbh Slow and durdly isn't really in vogue anymore and dreamgazer is the only one good from a tempo perspective but the self-damage is a huge negative
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Jan 28, 2016 23:47
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Patch going through soon apparently fox
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Jan 29, 2016 23:05
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Well it's not run by Ubisoft so less likely DoC was basically doomed to fail  It was my favorite card game too before it got lovely
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Jan 29, 2016 23:17
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If dreamgazer played the card when you replaced it, it would be insane. But it almost definitely just summons the minion based on its wording.
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Jan 30, 2016 13:15
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It used to be a thing when control decks were the only types of decks. It could maybe work but abyssian removal is pretty trash so you can pretty easily fall behind on board and never catch up.
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Jan 31, 2016 22:03
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Dreamgazer doesn't go back in your deck That card is now interesting to me
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Feb 1, 2016 02:50
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Yeah, it's the go-to card if you need something heavy in your list
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Feb 1, 2016 23:19
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Silverguard Knight is like the 2nd best 3-drop in the game and extremely strong But there's really not much past that yeah, I don't even know what the 3rd best 3-drop would be
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Feb 3, 2016 02:05
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Avasculous posted:Probably Nightsorrow Assassin. When people say 3-drop they mean a card you play on-curve to fight for tempo/board. Not just minions that cost 3 mana. Are you going to just throw out repulsor beast as the 2nd player T1 and feel good about it?
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Feb 3, 2016 05:53
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I love how people post that same article in every card game ever
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Feb 6, 2016 01:34
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I have a deck with 3x jaxi, 3x keeper, 3x rejuvenator, 3x healing mystic, guess what class I am
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Feb 7, 2016 03:28
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It's going to be a long month until 3rd wish gets nerfed
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Feb 10, 2016 19:59
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Kind of like how the AoE nerfs were the only thing holding back fox, the only thing holding back 3rd wish was songhai's massive damage output through fox. Lyonar has been pretty mediocre since the tempest nerf. They were good last patch when just throwing down taunts and heals every single turn could outlast songhai's burn but now even songhai is playing a more board-centric game. And lyonar was already bad against vet and vanar which are everywhere now instead.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:11
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Songhai is pretty expensive. Juxtaposition, mask of shadows, cyclone mask, spiral technique, tusk boar are basically core cards in every single songhai deck nowadays. Gravy Train Robber posted:I think I've settled into playing Songhai most of the time, and I've been lucky with getting Mask of Shadows, Eight Gates, and some other good legends/epics for them out of packs. I'm actually finding I enjoy this game way more than I thought I would. The heroin in the thread title is pretty accurate. I went from "eh, I'll give it a shot, it probably sucks" > "its fun but I don't like the art" > "I just spent how many hours playing?" in the course of a 2-3 days. There's 2 types of songhai decks around nowadays, a minion-heavy keeper/lantern list, and a spell heavy list. I don't play the spell list because I think it's mediocre. Here's the minion list I play, most songhai lists on ladder are going to be really close to this: 3x inner focus 3x juxtaposition 3x saberspine seal 3x jaxi 3x tusk boar 3x mask of shadows 2x cyclone mask 3x gorehorn 3x lantern fox 2x alcuin loremaster 3x emerald rejuvenator 2x silhouette tracer 2x twilight sorcerer 2x keeper of the vale 2x spiral technique The basic idea is playing a lot of minions on curve and using cards like mask of shadows, saberspine seal, inner focus to get big tempo swings. Gorehorn + inner focus can kill a 5 hp minion and leave you with a 4/4 on the board for 3 mana. Huge tempo swing. Lantern is actually decent but you have to be careful playing it early and letting your hand get flooded. Phoenix fire is used mostly for removal but you can just throw it out as burn damage to the face. This is still songhai and you're on the aggressive end of the spectrum compared to decks like vetruvian, vanar, or lyonar. Abuse cyclone mask + mask of shadows. Pretty much everyone but vetruvian and abyssian have a hard time removing artifacts and you can sometimes take over the game by constantly running away and abusing your 4 ranged damage a turn to completely control the board. And silhoutte + shadows for 8 backstab is always ridiculous when you don't have cyclone. This type of deck is going to get in lots of chip damage here and there from forcing general hits to keep up with your tempo, ranged pings, phoenix fires, etc. It's definitely fine to throw out a phoenix fire just to deal 3 damage to the general to maintain your hand size and use up your mana. It runs 4 minions that create spells when you play them and lantern fox can generate a good number of phoenix fires too so hand size is definitely a problem. Playing something like lantern fox + tusk boar can leave you with anywhere from 0-3 extra cards in your hand depending on your opponent's plays so you have to account for that. I run saberspine seals which isn't as common in the "pro" lists but I think a 3 damage 1 mana card is a really good tempo or burst play and it's a decent card to get more copies of with alcuin + twilight. Alcuin is the other card you don't see much in the more popular lists but I like it because of it being cheaper and guaranteed (better for setting up the big swing play you actually want) and how much versatility it can create by letting you take opponent spells. A lot of the cards you see played against you are also good against that faction. Martyrdom or sun bloom to deal with ironcliffes. 3rd wish to... whatever because it's broken. Grasp for the random abyssian. It's also a good card for setting up lethals since you can make some huge plays by abusing the 0-2 mana spells in your deck to create huge burst turns. It's definitely not something you want to play as a 3-drop though. I cut healing mystic from the popular lists because having a deck full of awesome keeper targets and then 3x of a crappy 2/3 makes me disgusted. koolkal fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 07:39
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You're in between some kind of aggro deck and a midrange deck. You're missing mid-late game power like keeper of the vale, voice of the wind, jax truesight to help close out the game in a midrange deck when combined with razorback. You're going to fizzle out and you're not really playing the good aggro cards either like headhunter + mechs, snowchaser, warlock, etc.
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Feb 16, 2016 07:41
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Don't dump razorback. You'll have way too much trouble killing your opponent. Just spamming early game minions and then attacking the general for 2-3 damage a hit doesn't matter when everyone is running 20 points of healing. Razorback lets you leverage the board you get with cheap minions and good tempo spells to actually do damage. It's an insanely strong card and should pretty much never be removed from any serious vanar deck.
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Feb 16, 2016 19:05
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Stretch Marx posted:So here is my current Songhai decklist: Always play 3x boar in songhai. The silhouettes are weird because you don't have mask of shadows or cyclone mask. If you're playing a spell-heavy list you should be running alcuins/twilights, alcuins are better for spamming spells which is what your deck is leaning towards. 3x twin strike and 3x ghost lightning is insane AoE overkill. Ghost lightning without 8 gates isn't worth it just to have a cheap spell. Onyx bear seal is good for stalling the game out. The random rock pulverizers are also weird. Unfortunately, songhai is always expensive to play optimally. koolkal fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 21:45
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Avasculous posted:After the way they did January nerfs, I think it's more likely we will see: What?
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Feb 18, 2016 04:26
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orangelex44 posted:That's the point, dude. The January nerfs didn't really address the cards the community generally agreed were OP, and instead tweaked things that were pretty tangental or had been considered a tad strong months ago. Additionally, they added a couple really good value cards for the month that didn't help balance any. I only play songhai and lantern fox absolutely needed a change so the community is retarded if they think that Not to mention new fox is good enough to play and songhai is still relevant Their biggest mistake was not also nerfing 3rd wish at the same time
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Feb 18, 2016 05:13
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3rd wish vetruvian seems kind of redundant
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Feb 21, 2016 01:23
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I really don't understand why it takes them a whole month to change 3rd wish. Playing 50% vetruvian past rank 5 all playing the same deck makes this game incredibly boring And it's not like the other 50% is that much different either
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Feb 23, 2016 20:02
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Ghost of Starman posted:Ah, yeah - the decklist I took as inspiration for this one was basically built around KI + backstabbers (hence the Scarlet Vipers). It's definitely the first thing I'd drop some Spirit on for this deck. And then probably 2 more Gore Horns. Scarlet vipers are pretty mediocre. They basically require inner focus to make them worth playing because they're so expensive. You really don't need that many backstabbers because you're actually pretty unlikely to get minion backstab value without inner focus.
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Feb 23, 2016 23:14
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The songhai list I posted earlier in the thread is 13000 spirit It's kind of hilarious
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Feb 24, 2016 00:24
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3rd wish only costs 3 mana, checks outGravy Train Robber posted:The Songhai forum on the Duelyst site is basically dead, are there any good places to find advice on building/playing Songhai? No idea. http://www.twitch.tv/thescientist___ and http://www.twitch.tv/protohypelol are both songhai players but I've never watched their streams.
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Feb 24, 2016 06:18
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