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Hate Speech: legal or not?
I'm from America and it should be legal.
From America, illegal.
Other first world country, it should be legal.
Other first world country, illegal.
Developing country, keep it legal.
Developing country, illegal.
View Results
 
  • Locked thread
BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Sharkie posted:

Oh no, not being able to leave comments on a site sounds awful, have any particularly egregious examples?

Also pretty sure comments sections aren't considered protected speech much like I can be banned from the forums for posting about how I think gays are really pieces of Dracula sent to take the world over for the lizard people and it isn't censorship

Thanks Obama

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BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
I can't scream about the Social Justice menace in the comments of an article about a fifth grade basketball tournament the horror

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Sharkie posted:

Do you agree with breitbart.com that it's a cabal of feminists and anti-racists that are behind this dastardly plot to not provide a space for people to call each other retards at the end of articles?

And newspapers not being forced to print every letter someone sends them: is that a similar threat to free speech?

I think the people cheering on their elimination are obviously interested in maintaining their opinions and views as the sole output of their respective sites, but I don't think it's limited to the left wing. Breitbart itself was known for deleting opposing opinions and hating gamers before their new tactic of embracing comments and gamers, so I'm not dim enough to believe they're doing anything but promoting their own self-interest. However, studies have been done showing that comments left either in support or critical of online articles can cause the reader to have a negative view of the article. It's a real statement on how stupid some outlets think their readership is that they must be protected from contrary opinions. It's reaching an almost religious fervor at this point.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib
The closure of public spaces and their replacement with private spaces is a big threat to free speech, but of course the Government can't be trusted, great Satan that it is, with establishing public spaces for the Internet. Only job creators can be trusted with that.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

natetimm posted:

I think the people cheering on their elimination are obviously interested in maintaining their opinions and views as the sole output of their respective sites, but I don't think it's limited to the left wing. Breitbart itself was known for deleting opposing opinions and hating gamers before their new tactic of embracing comments and gamers, so I'm not dim enough to believe they're doing anything but promoting their own self-interest. However, studies have been done showing that comments left either in support or critical of online articles can cause the reader to have a negative view of the article. It's a real statement on how stupid some outlets think their readership is that they must be protected from contrary opinions. It's reaching an almost religious fervor at this point.

ladies and gentlemen, behold: a man who thinks that the average comment left on a news site is well considered, thoughtfully crafted, and intended to spark civil discussion

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

natetimm posted:

I'm saying comments , not the uploading of things like child porn. You don't see how things like holding google responsible for things they link to that could be potentially defamatory is bad? How much talking do you think SA would permit if it were forced to be held legally responsible for the statements of its posters. How many times has noted forums drama queen Effectronica threatened to kill someone over politics on this site? How long would management let controversial topics continue if they had law enforcement or lawyers beating down their door every time he did it?

It already is natetimm.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

so you're saying we should bring back LF

natetimm posted:

I think the people cheering on their elimination are obviously interested in maintaining their opinions and views as the sole output of their respective sites, but I don't think it's limited to the left wing. Breitbart itself was known for deleting opposing opinions and hating gamers before their new tactic of embracing comments and gamers, so I'm not dim enough to believe they're doing anything but promoting their own self-interest. However, studies have been done showing that comments left either in support or critical of online articles can cause the reader to have a negative view of the article. It's a real statement on how stupid some outlets think their readership is that they must be protected from contrary opinions. It's reaching an almost religious fervor at this point.

I suggest, and hear me out, that newspapers not being forced to print the many dozens of letters I write each day about how natetimm is a shambling crabmonster is not a crusade of "religious fervor" against free speech. But I guess you disagree.

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Popular Thug Drink posted:

ladies and gentlemen, behold: a man who thinks that the average comment left on a news site is well considered, thoughtfully crafted, and intended to spark civil discussion

Some sites are worse than others, but generally comments sections are OK if you're capable of looking for substantial content. Sorting through white noise and dumb responses isn't really that difficult and really if it's worth it to people to delete comments entirely because of that inconvenience then they are probably giant babies.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
i just simply cannot tolerate a world where liberals can write biased propaganda about property tax millage rates and water service outages while not permitting me to point out that the water line broke because obama is a kenyan socialist hellbent on destroying america's proud white traditions

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

natetimm posted:

Some sites are worse than others, but generally comments sections are OK if you're capable of looking for substantial content. Sorting through white noise and dumb responses isn't really that difficult and really if it's worth it to people to delete comments entirely because of that inconvenience then they are probably giant babies.

i'm not confident in your ability to accurately judge substantial content or the relative merit of opinions

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Sharkie posted:

It already is natetimm.



I suggest, and hear me out, that newspapers not being forced to print the many dozens of letters I write each day about how natetimm is a shambling crabmonster is not a crusade of "religious fervor" against free speech. But I guess you disagree.

Your comparison to newspapers is dishonest because the amount of time, effort and resources required to do what you're describing is astronomical, while doing it on a site is much easier. Again, that's the entire point of the internet, to make communication cheaper and easier. Reinstalling the old system of dominant media presenting their more slanted than ever coverage unopposed isn't good for anyone.

esto es malo
Aug 3, 2006

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

natetimm posted:

Some sites are worse than others, but generally comments sections are OK if you're capable of looking for substantial content. Sorting through white noise and dumb responses isn't really that difficult and really if it's worth it to people to delete comments entirely because of that inconvenience then they are probably giant babies.

lol what universe do you inhabit

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
"Tonight on ABC it's Modern Family! But first here are hundreds of videos of people calling for the destruction of disgusting, stalk-eyed crabmonster natetimm, because to not provide them a platform is a threat to free speech. Buckle in folks cause this is going to last for hours."

-- a thing natetimm believes is good, and necessary.

natetimm posted:

Your comparison to newspapers is dishonest because the amount of time, effort and resources required to do what you're describing is astronomical, while doing it on a site is much easier. Again, that's the entire point of the internet, to make communication cheaper and easier. Reinstalling the old system of dominant media presenting their more slanted than ever coverage unopposed isn't good for anyone.

Webspace isn't free as in beer. And apparently you're fine with compromising your view of free speech as long as it involves a lot of work or whatever, lol.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

natetimm posted:

Your comparison to newspapers is dishonest because the amount of time, effort and resources required to do what you're describing is astronomical, while doing it on a site is much easier. Again, that's the entire point of the internet, to make communication cheaper and easier. Reinstalling the old system of dominant media presenting their more slanted than ever coverage unopposed isn't good for anyone.

We could perhaps also write laws holding newspapers responsible for misinformation as well :v: I'm personally quite partial to the idea that corrections must be printed on the same page and in the same size font as the original error.

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Sharkie posted:

"Tonight on ABC it's Modern Family! But first here are hundreds of videos of people calling for the destruction of disgusting, stalk-eyed crabmonster natetimm, because to not provide them a platform is a threat to free speech. Buckle in folks cause this is going to last for hours."

-- a thing natetimm believes is good, and necessary.

Man, you really have to twist that goalpost in a knot and move it down the street to take those shots, buddy.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Popular Thug Drink posted:

i'm not confident in your ability to accurately judge substantial content or the relative merit of opinions

I mean look at his post history

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

natetimm posted:

Your comparison to newspapers is dishonest because the amount of time, effort and resources required to do what you're describing is astronomical, while doing it on a site is much easier. Again, that's the entire point of the internet, to make communication cheaper and easier. Reinstalling the old system of dominant media presenting their more slanted than ever coverage unopposed isn't good for anyone.

you do realize that people are capable of communicating without the internet, right? like people talk to each other actually irl, face to face, in person, and are capable of sharing their opinions with each other. this happens frequently. hell, i'd wager to say that the majority of human communication does not take place via internet comments. i'd bet money on that

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

*Newspaper posts an article about how scientists agree women can also make super hero popsicles with juice and a freezer*

"Fuckin' SWJs!"

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

natetimm posted:

Man, you really have to twist that goalpost in a knot and move it down the street to take those shots, buddy.

Why don't you explain how that's the case? I mean, put that experience leaving substantial and intellectual comments on youtube to use.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
natetimm i am deadly serious here. do you actually speak to anyone offline because at this point i'm not exactly sure that you do given your apocalyptic concern with the lack of internet comments re: humans fundamental ability to share thoughts

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

Popular Thug Drink posted:

so you're saying we should bring back LF

I'm 1000% on board with this

DeusExMachinima
Sep 2, 2012

:siren:This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!:siren:

Put this loser on ignore immediately!
I made the mandatory trigger warning joke in the OP but I swear to Christ if you fuckers make this all about gamergate I will lock this thread and push it in the lake. Actual issues that matter please.

Chelb
Oct 24, 2010

I'm gonna show SA-kun my shitposting!

natetimm posted:

Man, you really have to twist that goalpost in a knot and move it down the street to take those shots, buddy.

I dunno, I don't like taking rhetorical advice from crabby hellspawn.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

DeusExMachinima posted:

I made the mandatory trigger warning joke in the OP but I swear to Christ if you fuckers make this all about gamergate I will lock this thread and push it in the lake. Actual issues that matter please.

who are you to say that anti gamergate SJWism isn't the biggest threat to free speech, fascist

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound
Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

DeusExMachinima posted:

I made the mandatory trigger warning joke in the OP but I swear to Christ if you fuckers make this all about gamergate I will lock this thread and push it in the lake. Actual issues that matter please.

Stop censoring you hitler

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

natetimm posted:

Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

when was the last time the sun kissed your bare skin

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Popular Thug Drink posted:

when was the last time the sun touched your skin

I live at the beach and surf, swim or hike almost every day. I will admit to sitting in a dark apartment with all the blinds drawn at the moment, but it's hot a gently caress here.

Sharkie
Feb 4, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

natetimm posted:

Man, you really have to twist that goalpost in a knot and move it down the street to take those shots, buddy.

If people want to take shots at your pitted and slime-crusted shell as you move down the street on your spidery legs, is it a violation of free speech for websites to ban comments about it? How about if they share links to artwork depicting it?

Also you haven't explained how that's moving the goalpost.

natetimm posted:

I live at the beach and surf, swim or hike almost every day. I will admit to sitting in a dark apartment with all the blinds drawn at the moment, but it's hot a gently caress here.
:stonk:

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Possibly the best argument against free speech is that free speech implies that all speech is valid, when it really isn't. Sometimes, if not a lot of the time, people say things which are demonstrably wrong, either ethically or factually, and sometimes they say things which are so wrong, or say them so often, that it can cause material harm to other people in the process.

If your object is to prevent people being harmed then the idea that all speech and ideas are valid is kind of silly, and getting everyone to pitch in with their ideas without requiring them to endeavour to put some effort into what they say, isn't really going to improve that.

Speech must be subject to scrutiny, because accepting all speech as valid regardless of its content is a patently daft idea. Ideally we wouldn't need a legal system to do that but it turns out that laws and governments are a quite good way of enforcing collective values, generally much better than just getting people to sort it out themselves.

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

natetimm posted:

Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

Maybe you actually thought this would distract people from noticing you haven't said poo poo in response to anyone when things got deeper than pure shallowness.

Chelb
Oct 24, 2010

I'm gonna show SA-kun my shitposting!

natetimm posted:

Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

You know what natetimm, you're right. Next time I see "fcuk you you pinko bastard, I hope yuo die in a trench like all the other jwes" I'll be sure to remember not to be hateful, and definitely not to be a tool.

I wouldn't want to get you mad anyway. You'd probably wrap me in a cocoon, liquefying me with digestive juices before consuming me as one of your untold amounts of human meals.

Chelb fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Nov 1, 2015

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Rollofthedice posted:

You know what natetimm, you're right. Next time I see "fcuk you you pinko bastard, I hope yuo die in a trench like all the other jwes" I'll be sure to remember not to be hateful, and definitely not to be a tool.

If this is truly a problem for you in your life, I recommend chilling out because it's not really a problem.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich

natetimm posted:

I live at the beach and surf, swim or hike almost every day. I will admit to sitting in a dark apartment with all the blinds drawn at the moment, but it's hot a gently caress here.

sorry, i'm too busy giving/recieving orgasm exchanges with my model girlfriend to read this post

so if internet comments voluntarily fall out of popularity, do you see any alternatives for people to be able to share ideas with each other? maybe some kind of 'paper internet' where people can write down what they want to say and other people then read it somehow? maybe put the words up on a wall with a projector?

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Rollofthedice posted:

You know what natetimm, you're right. Next time I see "fcuk you you pinko bastard, I hope yuo die in a trench like all the other jwes" I'll be sure to remember not to be hateful, and definitely not to be a tool.

How about you stop hating Mexicans and eat a taco

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib
The surest sign of someone being politically incompetent is when they sincerely yell about the evils of being "partisan", as though the ideal citizen has no ideals.

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

natetimm posted:

Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

I've moderated goon communities and my take away is a completely egalitarian point that just because a venue is possible does not mean it should exist. If you want a broader example Facebook for sure increases the quantifiable " free speech" in the world but that doesn't mean it either benefits nor improves society. There's a reason why it has the rep it does.

We as a society are not willing to address yet how free speech allows ISIS and legitimate political speech to exist.

Is it twitter and youtube and facebooks moral responsibility to not censor speech or to only provide a venue for what they want.

Reminder, the government is in no way involved in any of this.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
if you don't think the way i do, then maybe - consider this - you're being manipulated by a conspiracy to think incorrectly. you should be a smart guy free thinker, like me, who's right about topics

new phone who dis
May 24, 2007

by VideoGames
Morbid Hound

Popular Thug Drink posted:

sorry, i'm too busy giving/recieving orgasm exchanges with my model girlfriend to read this post

so if internet comments voluntarily fall out of popularity, do you see any alternatives for people to be able to share ideas with each other? maybe some kind of 'paper internet' where people can write down what they want to say and other people then read it somehow? maybe put the words up on a wall with a projector?

Does something really voluntarily fall out of popularity when the only people who no longer like it are the thin-skinned pseudo journalists writing the articles?

Effectronica
May 31, 2011
Fallen Rib

natetimm posted:

If this is truly a problem for you in your life, I recommend chilling out because it's not really a problem.

Racism: Not a problem.

Websites closing down comments sections: Huge problem.

Crab monsters have hosed-up priorities to go with their weird stalk-eyes.

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Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

natetimm posted:

Look, you guy aren't the first group of people aggressively cheer the loss of your rights and privileges, you just have the distinction of having more information regarding it available to you than any other generation. The argument against comments sections is the same one against free speech i.e. "Some people will use it to do things I don't like". When the argument gets to the point where you would rather silence everyone for the sake of silencing those people, maybe you're too personally involved in hating the caricature of people you disagree with. Maybe you're allowing yourself to be manipulated into being a partisan tool.

You do know that you don't have a right to free speech on other people's websites, right? Has this been pointed out to you yet? Because you don't seem to understand it.

  • Locked thread