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Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit

Ciprian Maricon posted:

Bellerin is injured? Jesus. Maybe that's why he looked a big poo poo this weekend.

Just let the doctors shoot those dudes full of steroids Wenger you stubborn old oval office.

Which match were you watching? Montero gave him trouble once or twice but otherwise he was running around like normal. Wenger said it was a slight groin problem so I suspect he is resting Bellerin for the derby on Sunday.

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fyallm
Feb 27, 2007



College Slice

Shoren posted:

Which match were you watching? Montero gave him trouble once or twice but otherwise he was running around like normal. Wenger said it was a slight groin problem so I suspect he is resting Bellerin for the derby on Sunday.

Or I dunno, him folding over the goal post running at full speed might have something to do with it.

Skip My Posts
Aug 15, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
It didn't

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



Shoren posted:

Which match were you watching? Montero gave him trouble once or twice but otherwise he was running around like normal. Wenger said it was a slight groin problem so I suspect he is resting Bellerin for the derby on Sunday.

Montero gave him loads of problems throughout the match. I meant to say he looked "a bit poo poo" certainly not terrible but not up to his standard.

Broletariat
Nov 14, 2014

Ciprian Maricon posted:

Montero gave him loads of problems throughout the match. I meant to say he looked "a bit poo poo" certainly not terrible but not up to his standard.

Agreed. Montero is a very very good winger though.

Both Bellerin and Monreal were mediocre this weekend.

Twat le Piss
Aug 4, 2004

Grimey Drawer

fat gay nonce posted:

He got Millwall relegated last season by being a bad manager

Awesome, good job. They don't have 'no one likes us but we don't care' in one of their chants for nothing!!!

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



Broletariat posted:

Agreed. Montero is a very very good winger though.

Both Bellerin and Monreal were mediocre this weekend.

They always look worse when there is a bit of defending to do. Bellerin's heroic run back to take the ball from Gomis aside they always have groan inducing moment or two when there is a lot of defending to do.

I'm not sure its a fair criticism of the players, its certainly fair to say both players are instructed to go up a lot more and contribute to the attack and both Bellerin and Monreal really look great when they are making wonderful runs, playing 1-2, crossing etc. I think it would be asking an awful lot for a player to do able to do both tasks really well.

Still that leaves whole matches or patches of time where they look lacking in defensive nous. Bellerin certainly got caught out a lot by Montero at Swansea and last night against Bayern Monreal looked like he belonged in MLS.

That seems the role of a modern fullback though so I guess maybe I need to recalibrate what I consider good defensive work from that position. But when I see Bellerin or Monreal struggle like the later did at Bayern I wish the club had the option of a more old school fullback to really contribute to a solid defense.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 5, 2015

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit

Ciprian Maricon posted:

They always look worse when there is a bit of defending to do. Bellerin's heroic run back to take the ball from Gomis aside they always have groan inducing moment or two when there is a lot of defending to do.

I'm not sure its a fair criticism of the players, its certainly fair to say both players are instructed to go up a lot more and contribute to the attack and both Bellerin and Monreal really look great when they are making wonderful runs, playing 1-2, crossing etc. I think it would be asking an awful lot for a player to do able to do both tasks really well.

Still that leaves whole matches or patches of time where they look lacking in defensive nous. Bellerin certainly got caught out a lot by Montero at Swansea and last night against Bayern Monreal looked like he belonged in MLS.

That seems the role of a modern fullback though so I guess maybe I need to recalibrate what I consider good defensive work from that position. But when I see Bellerin or Monreal struggle like the later did at Bayern I wish the club had the option of a more old school fullback to really contribute to a solid defense.

The way Bellerin and, to a lesser extent, Monreal play is just the way of modern fullbacks, especially so in Arsenal's case. It's a tradeoff of less security on counter-attacks for more attacking threat. They provide the width that allows players like Sanchez and Ramsey to tuck inside where they prefer to play. The days of defense-first fullbacks is over.

I think your criticism of Monreal is a bit harsh as he's been the model of stability for the past couple of seasons. He started out poorly after his transfer but I can't recall, last night aside, any matches when he's been entirely outclassed. He doesn't attack as much as Bellerin or even Gibbs and plays more defensively as a result.

Last night Arsenal probably would have benefited from a Pulis setup of 4 CBs, but it's not in Arsenal's nature to park the bus like that. They'll always try to go toe-to-toe with their opponents and even matches where they've ceded possession, like against Bayern or either Manchester club, they still attack as often as they can. They're defensive organization has definitely improved, but they'll never revert to a fully defensive setup, despite the occasional hidings like last night.

Breath Ray
Nov 19, 2010
Tell me of these defensive left and right backs of yore.

Broletariat
Nov 14, 2014

Ciprian Maricon posted:

They always look worse when there is a bit of defending to do. Bellerin's heroic run back to take the ball from Gomis aside they always have groan inducing moment or two when there is a lot of defending to do.

I'm not sure its a fair criticism of the players, its certainly fair to say both players are instructed to go up a lot more and contribute to the attack and both Bellerin and Monreal really look great when they are making wonderful runs, playing 1-2, crossing etc. I think it would be asking an awful lot for a player to do able to do both tasks really well.

Still that leaves whole matches or patches of time where they look lacking in defensive nous. Bellerin certainly got caught out a lot by Montero at Swansea and last night against Bayern Monreal looked like he belonged in MLS.

That seems the role of a modern fullback though so I guess maybe I need to recalibrate what I consider good defensive work from that position. But when I see Bellerin or Monreal struggle like the later did at Bayern I wish the club had the option of a more old school fullback to really contribute to a solid defense.

I think I disagree with you on Nacho. Yes he struggled against bayern, but that's loving Bayern. That current squad has world class players in every position. They have world class players on the bench ffs. He did quite well against muller and lahm in the first match at least.

Most of the time he's defensively quite solid imo. I mean, for a team that has organization as poor as Arsenal does. I agree with you on Bellerin, but then again look at who he's partnered with on the wings. Ox and Ramsey...

The Big Taff Man
Nov 22, 2005


Official Manchester United Posting Partner 2015/16
Fan of Britches

Shoren posted:

The way Bellerin and, to a lesser extent, Monreal play is just the way of modern fullbacks, especially so in Arsenal's case. It's a tradeoff of less security on counter-attacks for more attacking threat. They provide the width that allows players like Sanchez and Ramsey to tuck inside where they prefer to play. The days of defense-first fullbacks is over.

Yeah I think we had a similar discussion about Shaw at the start of the season

*up pops a smiling sassasin blaming shaw for both goals against swansea*

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



Breath Ray posted:

Tell me of these defensive left and right backs of yore.

There is certainly a big difference in the way players are set up and expected to contribute these days. Lee Dixon played a lot differently than Hector Bellerin.

Yeah Fullbacks always provided an option out wide but I think the way some teams play is different enough to talk about.

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.
The modern fullback is a winger first, defender second. This is why central defenders also need to be full backs, and sitting midfielders need to be central defenders. You often see the central defender on the full backs side drop out wide and the midfielder fill that spot when they lose possession.

Shoren
Apr 6, 2011

victoria concordia crescit

The Big Taff Man posted:

Yeah I think we had a similar discussion about Shaw at the start of the season

*up pops a smiling sassasin blaming shaw for both goals against swansea*

Hell, I blamed Shaw for those goals, too, but that's the inherent risk in using your fullbacks to attack. It's a risk that is generally offset by maintaining possession further up the pitch where the odds of scoring are high. That risk is usually mitigated by the nearest centerback going out wide to deal with the ball while your defensive mid covers.

Speaking of Swansea, if not for the awful offside trap Mertesacker was trying to play, you'd blame Bellerin for being out of position had Gomis also not been a wasteman.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Breath Ray posted:

Tell me of these defensive left and right backs of yore.

Neil Taylor

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

Clyne is definitely a defender first winger second. So was Steve Finnan and Arbeloa. We've quite often had a solid right back and a marauding left back when I think about it.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
i'm glad newcastle traded one really dirty right back for another who is slower but a lot better at everything else. janmaat could be world class if he wasn't slow as gently caress for a full back

Luke Smith
Aug 6, 2015

by Cowcaster
Yes there are sides that have a single defensively focused outside back and they tend to be lopsided in attack and then the defender falls out of favor when a new manager comes in.

Shrapnig
Jan 21, 2005

Ewar Woowar posted:

Clyne is definitely a defender first winger second. So was Steve Finnan and Arbeloa. We've quite often had a solid right back and a marauding left back when I think about it.

Suicidal left backs like Enrique and Smilin' Glen whenever he got shunted out there.

Hoops
Aug 19, 2005


A Black Mark For Retarded Posting
Almost all left backs are either wingers out of position or centre halves out of position. There's only ever been about a dozen players who were genuinely good left-sided fullbacks.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
enrique was alright then liverpool signed him and like most of their signings was either permanently injured or extremely bad

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

Jose posted:

enrique was alright then liverpool signed him and like most of their signings was either permanently injured or extremely bad

Enrique is a really odd player. He's insanely quick and strong on the ball and will always look to play it out from the back...but he's also incredibly one dimensional going forward and attacks broke down constantly because he'd take the wrong option.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Jose posted:

i'm glad newcastle traded one really dirty right back for another who is slower but a lot better at everything else. janmaat could be world class if he wasn't slow as gently caress for a full back

janmaat isn't nearly as injury prone which is awesome

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth
Janmaat is a bad player, and it says a lot about Newcastle's squad that their fans think he's good.

chuggo is BACK
Jul 1, 2008




"Chuggo"

PWM POTM December 2014

Ewar Woowar posted:

Enrique is a really odd player. He's insanely quick and strong on the ball and will always look to play it out from the back...but he's also incredibly one dimensional going forward and attacks broke down constantly because he'd take the wrong option.

He's just thick op

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

chuggo is BACK posted:

He's just thick op

He is.

Ziggy Tzardust
Apr 7, 2006

sassassin posted:

Janmaat is a bad player, and it says a lot about Newcastle's squad that their fans think he's good.

He's not particularly good but he seems to be the only person in the entire squad who actually gives a poo poo. Which is often mistaken for being good

Spangly A
May 14, 2009

God help you if ever you're caught on these shores

A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a shithouse wall

sassassin posted:

Janmaat is a bad player, and it says a lot about Newcastle's squad that their fans think he's good.

Janmaat is legitimately a good player in a bad team but I dont think he's quick enough for the prem. What's the point in a fullback who can play if he's too slow to overlap with any decent forwards? If you take his brains and feet and give him the body of Julien Faubert you'd have a *leans out of car* top player.

Brony Car
May 22, 2014

by Cyrano4747

chuggo is BACK posted:

He's just thick op



Thick
Solid
Tight

chuggo is BACK
Jul 1, 2008




"Chuggo"

PWM POTM December 2014

Brony Car posted:



Thick
Solid
Tight

lol I love him and when he first signed he was so fuckin good but the injuries appeard to ruin him and his refusal to make the simple pass meant Rodgers could never trust him

maybe Klopp can do something with him since he should have the energy for his football if nothing else but tbh he's been out of the team for so long I imagine he's already gone

Strawman
Feb 9, 2008

Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.


chuggo is BACK posted:

lol I love him and when he first signed he was so fuckin good but the injuries appeard to ruin him and his refusal to make the simple pass meant Rodgers could never trust him

maybe Klopp can do something with him since he should have the energy for his football if nothing else but tbh he's been out of the team for so long I imagine he's already gone

Seems to be pulling a Winston Bogarde at this point tbh. Which is a shame, he could've been really good.

Bea Nanner
Oct 20, 2003

Je suis excité!
José Enrique no es bueno.

Weaponized Cum
Aug 31, 2004


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igual que tu posting

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Bea Nanner posted:

José Enrique no es bueno.

This guy is gay. He does everything except play football

Bea Nanner
Oct 20, 2003

Je suis excité!
I'm pretty nervous for the derby. Koscielny should be back. Bellerin and Arteta don't look set to pass a fit test.

Weaponized Cum
Aug 31, 2004


This post brought to you by the finest Miami cocaine money can buy ----->
dembele and dyer are going to kick the poo poo out of your twink players

Brony Car
May 22, 2014

by Cyrano4747

sassassin posted:

This guy is gay. He does everything except play football

He has some mentals problems.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Bea Nanner posted:

I'm pretty nervous for the derby. Koscielny should be back. Bellerin and Arteta don't look set to pass a fit test.

arteta lol. he's poo poo now

ultrabindu
Jan 28, 2009
https://twitter.com/ZOO/status/662576839743905793

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Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



Bea Nanner posted:

I'm pretty nervous for the derby. Koscielny should be back. Bellerin and Arteta don't look set to pass a fit test.

It's one of those games Arsenal could easily just melt down on. Son and Kane are genuinely good players so I hope Son is still lacking fitness. I mean this team could have a melt down any given day so who knows what happens this weekend.

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