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 So you decided that life wasn't challenging enough trying to stand out amongst players of one of the most popular instruments of the modern age, and decided you would pit your wits against a million child prodigies instead. If you've only been exposed to classical music through movies and popular culture you'd be forgiven for believing that every single piece of classical guitar music sounds like Green sleeves*. The history of the guitar relates it back to Lyres and harps of ancient history, and it traces a route into Europe from Arabia through North Africa into Spain, so there's a large Spanish tilt towards the instrument which broadens as the music evolved. A bit like History is just cool stories with dates attached, classical guitar spans half a millennia and you can always find something exciting or to your taste from any of them. * Green sleeves may be a reference to a whore or promiscuous woman, since green was associated in Elizabethan England with scootly-poopin'. 16th C: Renaissance At this point the guitar was still evolving, from four to six strings and with a flat back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ZfeO8NT4g 17th C: Baroque This period has a really specific sound in northern europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrvkYrR9ChQ And more similar to ongoing traditions in the south: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pycGBe_lsY8 18th C: Classical While never achieving the same heights as instruments such as the violin or cello in northern European canon, at this point the instrument has a large following and Berlin, London and Paris form hubs of the instrument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6mJ5G5mxvg 19th C: Romantic Classical Guitar extends to the new world in Latin America: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urvMmkHmujE 20th C: Modern https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5bazerN2SE 21st C: Contemporary Like Jazz, Classical music can be pidgeon-holed to a specific date and time, but there are new pieces being composed constantly which push the boundaries further. To quote Mark Levine: Western Music is a story of the gradual acceptance of dissonance:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J29k1LtHq9M  Guitar Instruments appear to follow a typical you-get-what-you-pay-for model. Yamaha, Cordoba, La Mancha, etc. are highly lauded for beginner and intermediate models, there's almost no price ceiling for more expensive custom built guitars. It has been strongly suggested that cutaways, built-in electronics, pickups, thin bodies, crazy paintjobs and odd materials are traps for unwary and unfamiliar buyers. Yamaha C40: http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_c40_konzertgitarre.htm La Mancha Zafiro SN: http://www.thomann.de/gb/la_mancha_zafiro_s_sn.htm Cordoba C7: http://www.thomann.de/gb/cordoba_c7.htm Footstand You put your foot here - because typically songs are memorised if you get to the point you're performing them for people, the issue becomes one of fine motor control and adjustments on your fretting hand, whereas your plucking hand benefits from a more relaxed wrist angle. This means, your guitar is higher on your body and the neck is up in your biznis like you're Dave Mustaine farting through a solo:  Music Stand I sit at a computer stool like a heathen, but even so I have a floor standing holder for my books. The little hands to keep pages open where you want them is no-joke a-mazing.  GET A TEACHER FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF LESSONS Yes, technically you can fumble through without one in the same way you can learn the violin by watching blurry VHS tapes but frankly having a professional tweak your positioning and show you physically any differences you should enact you gain alot more. I even straight up told the dude I was learning from this was going to be a one-time thing and he was more than happy to give me a number of suggestions for self-study. Books For general learning I personally have experience with Frederick Noad Solo Guitar Playing and have found it so far to be an amazing book. Sagreras has been highly lauded in the same thread also. For improving technique Pumping Nylon is reviewed very highly. For repertoire, someone will have to tell me because I'm not there yet. Updates If anyone has any suggested links or content, or corrections please let me know.
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Nov 6, 2015 17:06
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Greensleeves is great because you learn a classical standard and a christmas song at the same time. I played classical for about 5 years and I hit a wall that would not allow me to advance any further. I found it was getting very tedious and learning songs was almost like "paint by numbers". Not unlike learning a skateboard trick. It felt very mechanical. That said, I am always drawn back to classical. There is some comfort in it's purity and structure. I just ordered one of Noads graded study books to re-acclimate myself so I can take another run at it. At this point I really need to start over as classical techniques seem to erode quicker than other styles. I will echo that the Cordoba C5-C10 are the best bang for the buck. The best student guitar I have owned is an Alhambra 7P and regret selling it. Right now I'm using a Yamaha Flamenco that I picked up to be a beater that is always out in the event that inspiration strikes. I hope this thread takes off, It would be good to have a group of us working through some songs.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:44
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I just placed an order for the spruce-top Cordoba C7 from GSI  It comes with a gig bag, but I've heard rumblings that humidity control is important. What is the recommended care and feeding of this kind of guitar?
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Nov 6, 2015 21:52
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Barnyard Protein posted:I just placed an order for the spruce-top Cordoba C7 from GSI Nice choice! I had a C7 a few years ago that ended up warping, so you do need to be conscious of the environment it is in.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:23
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I was considering a C7 myself but then I realised I have this horrible habit of paying for high quality gear when I'm definitely a low quality player - so opted for a Yamaha CG122.Luna posted:Greensleeves is great because you learn a classical standard and a christmas song at the same time. I had this experience while learning to play bass and sheet music to some extent: it felt more like muscle memory for a particular pattern than artistic expression. I'm still not entirely comfortable with how to approach that, but as a solo musician I feel empowered to work within the confines of the piece with arpeggiation, slurring and variations in volume and tempo. Having said that, none of that is coming to the fore until the piece is basically rote memorised, but I don't think THAT particular barrier is unique to classical repertoire over any other kind.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:17
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That's cool, Southern. I really was impressed by that guitar. I was introduced to classical guitar years ago by a very good guitar teacher. I ended up leaving it all behind for a while, for better or worse, but have come back to it more than a few times. Anyway, I'm on board now. Got a foot stool, a few books, thinking about getting a few lessons again--certainly wouldn't kill me. As for guitar care, get a humidifier. I have a D'addario kit that uses neat little packs. They're going on three months now, and my guitar was definitely a little dry when I got it. That said, a case is a definite plus, even if it's just a little more peace of mind. I wouldn't go crazy, but I'd look around for one. Lastly, here's a recording of "Packington's Pound" I made today. There's something that really draws me to these folk songs. 
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Nov 7, 2015 04:08
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nitsuga posted:That's cool, Southern. I really was impressed by that guitar. Maybe this is just me being a Dumb Fucker but what am I supposed to click on to hear your song? The "Play Now" button opened up a bunch of "UR COMPUTER HAS A VIRUS" popups :/
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Nov 7, 2015 23:12
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^I too cannot see it - try 'clyp.it' ? My latest challenge is a lute piece called 'Dowe Son Quei Fieri Occhi' in the Noad book - I'm finally getting it down but it's got bundles of those super weird chord grips. It seems that lutenists freaking love chords which have upper notes played on guitar first and third strings i.e. F on fourth string, C on third string and A on first string. It does sound immense though. There's a preceding flamenco section which makes me a really sad panda because it's clearly meant to be super fast and I play it like a lumbering brute.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:19
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those are the bad kind of ads, the play button is just to the right of the title above where it says "download track" and "mark as favorite"
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Nov 8, 2015 19:30
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Some great natural reverb there. I'm really such an amateur that I can't provide and meaningful critique, but I enjoyed how fluid everything sounded with no fits and starts to the tempo.
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Nov 10, 2015 10:46
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Info for the OP, if you want to include commercial info. I had a great experience buying a C7 and case from http://www.guitarsalon.com/. The fellow on the site's live chat was really helpful, and gave me a deal on the C7. I put in a email inquiry about a case outside normal business hours, and someone got back to me within the following hour.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:04
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^ Yeah sure, does anyone else have recommendations? This is the whoreson of a song I'm working on now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVhwBLoCm-4
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Nov 11, 2015 23:27
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Southern Heel posted:^ Yeah sure, does anyone else have recommendations? that song is beautiful. do you have sheet music for it that you could share? is it in a book somewhere?
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Nov 12, 2015 04:30
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Barnyard Protein posted:that song is beautiful. do you have sheet music for it that you could share? is it in a book somewhere? Sure, how's the legality though? I guess the music itself must be public domain so I can I just take a snap of my book?
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Nov 12, 2015 12:25
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Not asking for  , is it in that book Frederick Noad Solo Guitar Playing?
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Nov 12, 2015 15:17
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Barnyard Protein posted:Not asking for Yeah, P 133 if you have a scanned copy or something. I'm just about getting it after many days of on-and-off practise. It's really interesting seeing the motifs and patterns come out audibly after seeing them on the paper, especially the middle section of this song. I should be able to playtest my CG122MS tomorrow! I know that I could have gone with a 162 or even 192, but frankly I'm sick of buying above my price bracket and feeling like an idiot.
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Nov 12, 2015 22:14
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I'm working on 'Dove' too--when you mentioned the flamenco bit, I realized I had just been looking at the exact same place in Noad. Anyway, it's not going bad. I definitely wasn't playing that little pickup right (B, B, C I believe). As a note, that is most definitely not all natural reverb. It's a lowly iPhone recording, so I put a little on in Audacity to make it a little more enjoyable of a listen. I have better gear, I'll just have to start tinkering with it again. Cheers, happy Friday. Hope you all get a little practice in over the weekend.
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Nov 13, 2015 05:05
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I have so much I want to say/ask in this thread right now. I'm a few months in to classical guitar and it's been a wild ride. Rewarding, comforting, overwhelming, downright maddeningly frustrating. All of the above x100. I'm still with it though. It has been a very unique new adventure for me and sometimes I wonder why the gently caress I dropped the cash on a guitar style that requires serious study and focus instead of ripping out silly electric guitar music through a bunch of pedals and my orange stack. I feel like it's well worth it though. There's a certain meditative focus in learning and playing classical guitar that I don't get many other places. It's clear and easy to see why so many people consider it a lifestyle. So, question time! What do you guys seek out for inspiration and motivation? Or at least seek out to get excited about classical music? A few stretches lately I have felt a complete lack of interest in practicing simply because my head isn't in that classical space. I've found that searching YouTube and watching excellent performers helps a lot. As does looking through articles and blogs about the philosophy of classical guitar practice. I think since we're learning and playing so much music often removed from our day to day experiences that it's rough to pull around and say holy poo poo all of this old dusty rear end music rules and I need to jump headfirst into it and be the energy moving this history through my own modern life.
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Nov 13, 2015 06:21
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What are those philosophical links? I'm sure it'd be appreciated for people lurking and I'd like to see it too. For me, music in the classical genre (i.e. >100y old) allows me to connect on an emotional level with the minds of humanity from ages past. These people lived in radically different worlds to us, in different countries and walks of life, with problems and issues all of their own. Being able to play and hear the same melody that someone in the 17th century also did gives that communion. I'm probably not the best person to ask to get excited about alot of traditional classical music: I personally think that it spreads across so much of time with so many individual subgenres to try to take it in at once. I know the differences are more pronounced recently than in preceding centuries, but imagine if everyone bulked together indie/folk/rock/blues/country/metal as '20th Century guitar music' ? Because of it's vastness, a great help for me has been to focus narrowly, arbitrarily. I can credit Murakami (the fiction author) for getting me excited about the music; so I started with Haydn and Janacek - that worked, so checked out Chopin and Liszt by extension - I quickly found I enjoyed pieces with a dissonance tension and so that's where I'm at now.
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Nov 13, 2015 12:17
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I'm curious too, my brain loves to chew on that sort of stuff. --- Personally, Half is being a bit of strange kid. I was exposed at young age (13, I think), so its influence has been hard to escape--the way the songs move your fingers, the harmonies, and all the mystery of how music is ever made. Playing was (and still is) tremendously soothing. The other half is my history with guitar. I gave it up because I didn't understand what it meant and what it did for me. Eventually, though, I found I needed something. All my attempts, shaky they may have been, meant something, but now I'm thinking about it more sincerely. Of course I wonder what it'll all become, but I'm learning to remember that making the music come alive when it's in my hands is what I enjoy most of all.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:47
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So you players who've passed the beginner-book stage, from where do you get your music? For example, my father often needs a little hint about what to get me for Xmas so I was thinking of suggesting a book of sheet music for Classical Guitar, but I'm not even really sure where to start to suggest something!
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Nov 16, 2015 12:49
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Can anyone else's human hand hit this chord naturally? --- l-hand fingers -7- <-4 -7- <-3 -4- <-1 --- -7- <-2 I can play it, but its a bit of a contortion. i have to change my normal posture, and it stretches out my hand in a weird way... Feel like i'm either not ready to learn this song, or i'm doing something wrong
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Nov 16, 2015 15:34
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It's not a huge problem for me - you're right that it is a stretch though. I'm looking at the shape in the way I see a 9 chord with a fifth string root i.e. x7677x or x7577x - this just happens to be x7477 with a missed string. That fifth string being muted gives you leeway with reaching with your second finger since it doesn't need to worry about clearing it. This isn't really something I'm working on, surprisingly I'm a little above this level - but it forms part of the ABRSM Level 1 grade so I thought I'd give it a shot:  The song is composed sometime around the end of the thirteenth century, written about concretely in the 1350's by a prominent Parisian author. To put that into perspective of my previous digression about 'living in another world', this song was composed and played at roughly the same time as : The Magna Carta was being signed, Ghengis Khan became king of the Mongols, Islam is thought to be founded.
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Nov 16, 2015 15:54
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Southern Heel posted:It's not a huge problem for me - you're right that it is a stretch though. I'm looking at the shape in the way I see a 9 chord with a fifth string root i.e. x7677x or x7577x - this just happens to be x7477 with a missed string. That fifth string being muted gives you leeway with reaching with your second finger since it doesn't need to worry about clearing it.
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Nov 16, 2015 16:09
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Pyrthas posted:I don't play classical, so I'm just poking my head in here, but I wanted to add: when I first tried this, I also thought of it as an E9 or Em9 without a 3 (or a root), but it could also just be a Bm. Yeah, maybe the second inversion of an E9sus2 ?
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Nov 16, 2015 16:38
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The book says its a Bm, but it could be a lot of things right? depending on the key signature (G in this case), and the phase of the moon, and the way you look at it? BTW the song its from is "Carinhoso" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IhqXDQkWpQ Jerry Bindle fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 16:59
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I asked my teacher for a theory book recommendation, but he said the only good one he knew of was in Portuguese. I bought http://www.amazon.com/Music-Theory-Guitarists-Everything-Wanted/. It seems pretty good, I like that its focused on the guitar and how it relates the theory to the fretboard. I'm having a hard time finding reference info for the classical type of theory that he's teaching during lessons though, like resolving the tritone. Anyone know of a good classical theory book?
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Nov 16, 2015 17:11
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Classical music theory is like the pariah of modern study AFAIK. I used musictheory.net to get the basics and then Mark Levin's Jazz Theory book to pummel it into me. The latter is obviously modern and fairly advanced but almost every section on modes or substitutions has sections on how 'XXX is the classical way of doing things, YYY is how would typically be done before Jazz, and ZZZ is how it is utilised now' which is a nice slice of the cake. If anyone has any specific recommendations I'd be glad to hear them but realistically how useful is it other than to chew the cud over, as we're clearly not composing the pieces?
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Nov 16, 2015 18:16
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Thanks Southern Heel, that musictheory.net site looks like it will be a valuable resource to me. I've found that knowing the theory is helpful for organizing the ideas in my head, so I want to understand it as well as I can. My teacher does some hand waving over the details sometimes because its probably too complex to explain the whole story in a lesson, I'd like to figure out some of that stuff on my own time. OTOH I could just chill and practice more, instead of nerding out in a book, and learn the theory at the pace he's teaching it. Yeah, I'll just practice more.
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Nov 16, 2015 22:16
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If you're looking for general theory knowledge that site is pretty good - it really depends on your end goal IMO and playing classical doesn't particularly get easier if you know the theory compared to say Jazz where it's a fundamental requirement. I have personally found diatonic scale construction: chord construction: chord substitutions: to be invaluable in my overall repertoire but other than key signature I would find it difficult to tell you about most of the sheet music I am playing or even if it's relevant.
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Nov 17, 2015 00:37
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My goal is to play bossa nova, and other Brazilian guitar styles. I get the strong impression that theory is important to understanding whats going on in bossa nova. Learning the chords is one thing, the rhythms are another, but I'd also like to be able to improvise some day. Theory's also something guitar-related I can do while my wife wants to listen to something other than my clumsy playing  , and I find it enjoyable so it doesn't really matter to me if I spend some time learning something that I can't put to use immediately. My teacher can play all the stuff I want to learn to play. He's from Brazil, he said that my learning to play bossa nova as the first thing I learn on guitar would be like him trying to learn english by reading shakespeare. So he's suggested I start with the classical stuff to get the technique down, learn some theory, and move onto Brazilian guitar when I've got the basics of classical down pat. Like I said earlier, I asked him for a textbook reference and he doesn't know of any that aren't in Portuguese, but said he'd ask around the faculty. Maybe I'll check out a jazz book
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Nov 17, 2015 02:01
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By Bossa Nova, do you mean like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sr7BXinJMw Because frankly Classical theory isn't going to be much use at all except MAYBE the vestigial requirement to read sheet music?
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Nov 17, 2015 10:53
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Hmm... Does "Classical Theory" mean something different than "Modern music theory that you can apply to the music in the Sagreras book"? I think that I might be incorrectly using terms or words that have a very specific meaning without realizing it. I'm still learning the basics, so far I don't think there is anything in my head that won't be helpful for brazillian guitar. I've about become confident reading sheet music, just started last lesson to learn how to write out the notes of a key signature and build triads up out of it. I'm thinking back over the lessons I've had so far. He's pointed out how some things are "correct", e.g. the text-book correct way to resolve the tritone, but they are not important in modern music like bossa nova.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:07
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Barnyard Protein posted:Hmm... Does "Classical Theory" mean something different than "Modern music theory that you can apply to the music in the Sagreras book"? I think that I might be incorrectly using terms or words that have a very specific meaning without realizing it. Correctness as such in anything, including classical music theory, is about goals. For example, the "rule" of how to resolve a tritone or any other rules of voice leading help lead to independence of musical line and small voice movement, which are pleasing effects in lots of music. Though I'm a perhaps less strict about this when, say, figuring out voicings on guitar while comping jazz than when trying to write counterpoint in the style of Palestrina, the guidelines are still helpful--ie, avoiding lots of parallel motion, particularly of 5ths and octaves. Also, classical music theory tends to start with the actual classical era--though some explanation of how certain harmonic and voice leading practices might draw to the renaissance and middle ages. It usually then progresses to the 19th and 20th centuries, which in some ways begins to take on some of the characteristics of jazz and other popular music (most notably, the use of more extended chords, including altered dominants and nonfunciontally extended chords). Key signatures and building triads out of it is common to jazz curriculum and classical, but my impression is most serious students tend to start with one and with more study converge to solid understanding of the other. Notably, even beginning jazz students need to understand extended chords, and advancing players need to not only keep track of modulations and transient key cells as in classical, but also what altered scales are appropriate. I wish I had good recommendations for books, honestly. The textbooks I used in school were merely OK.
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Nov 20, 2015 13:20
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Southern Heel posted:So you players who've passed the beginner-book stage, from where do you get your music? For example, my father often needs a little hint about what to get me for Xmas so I was thinking of suggesting a book of sheet music for Classical Guitar, but I'm not even really sure where to start to suggest something! Physically? Amazon. If you mean how to new songs outside of the compilations, I pick an composer I like and see if I can run with it. This being my favorite: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793555434/ref=ox_sc_imb_mini_detail?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A12XIGXOWWK2SD
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Nov 20, 2015 20:58
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Thanks cpach, thats some helpful context.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:37
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Barnyard Protein posted:My goal is to play bossa nova, and other Brazilian guitar styles. I get the strong impression that theory is important to understanding whats going on in bossa nova. I'm very much interested in (but not at all a pro at) the same sort of music. The Levin jazz theory book combined with a bunch of Jobim sheet music will keep you busy for a long time.
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Nov 26, 2015 20:49
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Trig Discipline posted:I'm very much interested in (but not at all a pro at) the same sort of music. The Levin jazz theory book combined with a bunch of Jobim sheet music will keep you busy for a long time. Thanks! I think that's exactly what I was looking for.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:14
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Glad to help! Jobim is basically the epitome of everything I love about bossa nova; harmonically dense and yet so incredibly beautiful and accessible. It's one thing to string together a bunch of really weirded-out chords that sound like weirded-out chords. It's another thing entirely to put them together in such a way that the listener feels that they had to be stuck together in just that way, and imho nobody does that better than Jobim.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:26
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Trig Discipline posted:Glad to help! Jobim is basically the epitome of everything I love about bossa nova; harmonically dense and yet so incredibly beautiful and accessible. It's one thing to string together a bunch of really weirded-out chords that sound like weirded-out chords. It's another thing entirely to put them together in such a way that the listener feels that they had to be stuck together in just that way, and imho nobody does that better than Jobim. Do you have an example?
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Nov 27, 2015 20:43
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