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Antti posted:The third sector is included too so it's totally not just about the private sector, guys. Freedom of choice! We wouldn't want people to choose now would we, especially if it means someone might make a profit by doing something the public sector just can't seem to do, like offer doctor's appointments without a 2 month wait. Also, the third sector will include players like the church (diakonia, diacor etc) and Folkhälsan. Not exactly tiny players on a Finnish scale. But I guess it's easy to ignore them and continue crying about how the government doesn't do 100% of everything anymore because it's a step away from,communism or whatever you're imagining.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:30
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Geriatric Pirate posted:We wouldn't want people to choose now would we, especially if it means someone might make a profit by doing something the public sector just can't seem to do, like offer doctor's appointments without a 2 month wait. Yeah, god forbid that triage would be based on medical need rather than the ability to pay.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:02
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DanTheFryingPan posted:Also what the gently caress is thisss? Rehula's excellent presentation! 
Nenonen fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 17:26
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Nov 9, 2015 17:55
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Geriatric Pirate posted:We wouldn't want people to choose now would we, especially if it means someone might make a profit by doing something the public sector just can't seem to do, like offer doctor's appointments without a 2 month wait. Your :tenbux: priorities aside, how on earth do you expect deacons to take responsibility of public health care? They do have nurse training, yes, but in practice? Doing physical checkups on their customers in the side? That's like suggesting the guards take over policing because they know how to deal with public disturbances.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:09
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, god forbid that triage would be based on medical need rather than the ability to pay. Good thing SoTe uudistus doesn't affect this at all, but also strange thing how when you introduce some aspect of paying to medical treatment doctors all of a sudden start treating a lot more patients. Funny that. Valiantman posted:Your :tenbux: priorities aside, how on earth do you expect deacons to take responsibility of public health care? They do have nurse training, yes, but in practice? Doing physical checkups on their customers in the side? That's like suggesting the guards take over policing because they know how to deal with public disturbances. I don't expect deacons to do it, I was giving an example of an institution which runs healthcare / social services (which are also covered in SoTe) and is neither a government ministry nor a private for-profit company
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Nov 9, 2015 22:23
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Geriatric Pirate posted:strange thing how when you introduce some aspect of paying to medical treatment doctors all of a sudden start treating a lot more patients. The purpose of the health care system is not to get doctors to treat as many patients as possible but to maximize the health and well-being of the population. I'm sure a lot of doctors would be happy to perform all kinds of unnecessary tests and interventions if they were paid for it.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:07
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Geriatric Pirate posted:strange thing how when you introduce some aspect of paying to medical treatment doctors all of a sudden start treating a lot more patients. Funny that. Herman Merman posted:The purpose of the health care system is not to get doctors to treat as many patients as possible but to maximize the health and well-being of the population. I'm sure a lot of doctors would be happy to perform all kinds of unnecessary tests and interventions if they were paid for it. This is a problem that keeps private health insurance prices high as well and the reason the US system is crazy expensive. Sure, you could just pay for everything the private sector wants, but you're not going to save any money. If they want to save money, they'll have to cut services or increase cost to the patient (which isn't really cutting costs is it? Besides, it leads to people not going to the doctor which increases costs as well, precisely what we're trying to avoid here). Whereas an efficient holistic, yet centrally commanded system can save money AND keep people healthy. I don't see private systems not having a role in this, but the Swedish system is not the right way to go about it. I'd support a system of private practicing doctors. The money's not going to end up in the Caymans that way.
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Nov 10, 2015 12:51
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Oldsmobile posted:I don't see private systems not having a role in this, but the Swedish system is not the right way to go about it. I'd support a system of private practicing doctors. The money's not going to end up in the Caymans that way.
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Nov 10, 2015 12:56
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Oldsmobile posted:This is a problem that keeps private health insurance prices high as well and the reason the US system is crazy expensive. Herman Merman posted:The purpose of the health care system is not to get doctors to treat as many patients as possible but to maximize the health and well-being of the population. I'm sure a lot of doctors would be happy to perform all kinds of unnecessary tests and interventions if they were paid for it. We don't yet know how the SoTe reforms will affect government paid things and I don't know exactly what capacity the private sector will have to charge for "unnecessary" stuff. The whole point is that while "an efficient holistic, yet centrally commanded system can save money", setting one up is a bit more difficult. If the private sector can provided some services cheaper and better, might as well let them. Right now they're doing a great job with the "better" part for basically anyone making an above median income when it comes to minor things.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:58
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The main problem with all but a completely monolithic government health care systems is the cost. Private health care is under all systems more expensive. But I'm not sure I want a completely public monolithic system and I'm willing to pay a bit more for a mixed system as long as the tax money pumping big money contracts are eradicated. But the system the government seems to be pushing is replacing a public monolith with a private monolith and that won't save money. So more cuts are ahead. But like I said, you can't cut from healthcare because it will always bite you on the rear end. Public health crisis cost tenfold compared to just simply paying for a couple of doctor's visits.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:03
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kelamaksut pois yksityisiltä
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Nov 10, 2015 21:05
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http://www.riemurasia.net/kuva/Suomen-hoitolaitokset/172148
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Nov 10, 2015 22:28
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Then there's the thing that meanwhile these things were pretty "ok" 10 or 25 years ago (and in some places, even now) we are now bankrupt. I'm quite sure your solution is to shoot the rich.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:06
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Oldsmobile posted:The main problem with all but a completely monolithic government health care systems is the cost. Private health care is under all systems more expensive. I'm all for the American Model of Public Health Care 
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Nov 10, 2015 23:44
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BrienneGetsHanged posted:I'm all for the American Model of Public Health Care perusta konsulttiyhtiö ja ala tienata
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Nov 10, 2015 23:47
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Good news everyone! We don't need to join NATO after all, the likely* next president of the United States promises to protect us regardless: http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1447208260065 * not likely
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Nov 11, 2015 06:54
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Hogge Wild posted:kelamaksut pois yksityisiltä
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Nov 11, 2015 07:04
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:This should be done. If the private sector is so much better and more efficient, than it should be able to function just fine without government handouts. we should try the same with our hard working farmers maybe they'd stop loving pigs and children for a while and start working for a living
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Nov 11, 2015 07:07
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Ligur posted:Then there's the thing that meanwhile these things were pretty "ok" 10 or 25 years ago (and in some places, even now) we are now bankrupt. Well, if we are bankrupt and shooting the rich is out of options, then I'd suggest that we shoot everyone over 55 years old. That solves our unemployment and pensionproblem by kertalaaki.
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Nov 11, 2015 07:08
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How about we borrow money and build up the countrys infrastructure and educational system and invest in developing new technologies that we can export and look at the long run and castrate any austerity fuckers on sight.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:29
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Fish of hemp posted:shoot everyone over 55 years old There are no alternatives.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:33
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So turns out the minister for EU affairs, Toivakka, has been involved in avoiding taxes: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ministeri_toivakka_jarjesteli_suuren_kauppakeskuksen_omistuksia_belgiaan_perheensa_holdingyhtiolle/8440333 So no wonder the government was so keen on passing laws that would help avoid them even more.
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Nov 11, 2015 11:47
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There's been a slew of instantaneous worker strikes at postal centers across the country. One of the sources of these have been the introduction of rent-workers to the workplace. Regular employees resent that, and some have refused to guide them to do their work - something the post worker's union recommends to do. Subsequently dissenters have been removed - not fired - from the workplace for an "illegal strike." This is all in advance to the announced general strike of postal workers near the end of this month where they will demonstrate against the current state company policies for three days. (It was only going to be two days, but they decided to extend it for another day.) In other words, expect some delays to your internet shop orders.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:07
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You guys better keep Ligur this time, seriously. We don't want him in Scandipol at all.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:22
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:You guys better keep Ligur this time, seriously. No. He's too good for Finland to keep. He needs to be set freeee-eee-ee.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:24
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:You guys better keep Ligur this time, seriously. You get the posters you deserve.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:43
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The unionized workers are being asked to train scabs, so I can see why they are reluctant to do so. However it means that they've been kicking people off work and refusing them health services for it, when training is not even their main job, so Posti is purposefully crippling itself by removing its employees for refusing to train scabs. This is technically called a lockout (työsulku) and the employer is not supposed to do that without any forewarning. So on that reasoning it's not an illegal strike, but an illegal lockout. Of course the whole thing is tastier because it's a publicly owned corporation.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:44
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Postorder Trollet89 posted:You guys better keep Ligur this time, seriously. Ligur is the only thing keeping that thread alive. You swedus should be thankful.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:50
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kikkelivelho posted:Ligur is the only thing keeping that thread alive. You swedus should be thankful. But his opinions are WROONG, can't have that
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Nov 11, 2015 15:21
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It's funny how so many posters can go into a panic -mode or become unhinged simply because someone posted something obvious (but in "bad taste" to say). Like, for example, that human smuggling is a risk free business compared to smuggling guns or drugs. "No! It can't be! gently caress you!" (Even though that is a fact anyone who reads any European news ever should be well aware of.) Or that the Swedish government has been completely ignorant of the World or just bullshitting, or both, about the capacity of Sweden to take in people. It's also interesting that Sweden is in the middle of a howling immigration crisis, and I don't think anyone can say honestly shrug it off as a mere conspiracy by devious "right-winger" or something passing anymore, but nobody talks about it. Economically (not counting other issues) the impact is similar to, like, 190k Swedes losing their jobs and then forgetting how to speak Swedish this year alone, if someone can't otherwise put into perspective what it means to receive 190k unemployed who don't speak any local language. That is not normal or regular behaviour from the citizens of any country. Of course, there are theories (many) Swedes blidnly trust the "state" will somehow take care of everything and the posters here represent that. But be as it may, it is both awesome and terrifying to behold. edit: and for the näsäviisas homo-poster who is typing "no that is not at all a good comparison" right now, yes I know it is very crude comparison, but that's only because a lot of people don't seem to grasp the impact of receiving hundreds of thousands of unemployed and possibly unemployable people into a welfare state, out of housing in that, in a few years time. And probably until the end of this decade or eternally, because there are literally - and for once I can use this word myself without pangs of guilt - there are literally millions of people waiting in camps ME and North Africa for their turn on the smuggler boat. Almost everyone understands that 10k Finns losing a job in some city is a horrible economic blow. But for some reason, they slot migrants into a different box: suddenly receiving whatever amount of unemployed migrants isn't an issue and the most worrying aspect of the whole thing is if "racists" might write blog posts that could paint asylum seekers in less than a good light, causing vihapuhe in some kahvila or on the news comments. So a crude comparison for crude people. And fnnngh, I have a sinking feeling what tax reliefs our companies received is not going towards growing their business in Finland... Ligur fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 15:22
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We know. Go tell it to the swedes.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:37
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Antti posted:So on that reasoning it's not an illegal strike, but an illegal lockout. There's also the thing that the postal worker's union doesn't have a contract right now so they can strike as much as they want without it being illegal.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:11
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Hogge Wild posted:we should try the same with our hard working farmers Food production is an essential function in a society, therefore I say collectivize the farms. You can have a system of private farms on the side for producing luomu and other inessentials but no subsidies for them.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:21
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Oldsmobile posted:So turns out the minister for EU affairs, Toivakka, has been involved in avoiding taxes: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ministeri_toivakka_jarjesteli_suuren_kauppakeskuksen_omistuksia_belgiaan_perheensa_holdingyhtiolle/8440333 Stubb ei näe Toivakan omistuksissa ongelmia Valtiovarainministeri pitää ulkomaankauppaministerin aiempaa yrittäjätaustaa Suomelle hyödyllisenä toimintana. 
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Nov 11, 2015 16:29
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Herman Merman posted:Stubb ei näe Toivakan omistuksissa ongelmia This man will lie just about anything at this point.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:14
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Herman Merman posted:Stubb ei näe Toivakan omistuksissa ongelmia
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Nov 11, 2015 17:24
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jim carry plays Alex stubb where a politician has to lie all the time, but the lies start affecting his personal life, like his girlfriend can't take it anymore and breaks up with him, and he lies to little kids about joulupukki, but it like, makes him sad to do that, but he eventually finds meaning with a helpless stray dog on the steps of the doom church and becomes a social democrat on itsenäisyyspäivä right before he meets the REAL Santa clause
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Nov 11, 2015 18:34
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I like this story better.vuohi posted:idea tv-sarjaksi: siilinjärveläinen mies ottaa nuoren pärinä-alexin partneriksi hämärään organisaatioonsa. energinen ja nopea pärinä-alex paljastuu kuitenkin kaikin tavoin epästabiiliksi yksilöksi joka haluaa organisaation perinteisesti sinisiin tunnuksiin heti enemmän liekkejä ja sekavia kaavioita aiheuttaen spiraalinomaisen syöksyn kohti tuhoa. kaksikon rinnalle kontrastia tuo "straight man" mutta itsekin puolirikollinen varatuomari nimeltä sauli.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:25
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There is nothing going on.... dahhh... hurr... international laws and regulations... prevent everyong from doing... hurp... anything... *drools* *wakes up* RACISM!!!! NAZ... nazis... *sniffs glue, falls asleep* Yeha, it's a loving shame that sort of thinking and reactions have not been limited to certain D&D posters but government ministers and public officials. Now we're eating poo poo. Best thing is the redgreens loving love it, the more poo poo the better. That will show them wrong voters.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:43
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