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Largeguy posted:The Nuke General's Battlemasters are what made me give up C&CG. There was one time I was playing a 2v2 match (I was Air Force General, my buddy was vanilla GLA I think, and we were fighting Chinese Nuke General, and I think vanilla USA). The Nuke General was definitely the more deadly of my two enemies, and he was basically hogging all of his buddy's resources to power his war machine. He was throwing everything at me, and I was barely holding on (his Black Lotus even captured my Command Center at one point), and whenever he would send an armored group at me, he would of course have tons of nuke-equipped Battlemasters. I would always aim at his Battlemasters first and cause a huge chain reaction that would blow apart his entire armored group with a couple of dead Battlemasters. Good stuff. Me and my buddy teamed up to take out his Nuke Silo just seconds before he was going to launch, and we eventually grinded him and his buddy down to win it. One of my favorite online matches ever.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:34
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The nuke shells effectively throwing off the rocket infantry vs. tank balance in the early game was something I couldn't ever counter.
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Largeguy posted:By Brutal skirmishes you mean against Brutal AI, right? Yes. Never really played online since my connection was always poo poo back then. If I was online, it was to comp stomp along with a guy I knew online.
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Nov 14, 2015 03:40
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Thanks for the nostalgia trip! I bought this not long into my undergrad days, and remember missing a class and feeling Terrible about it due to being engrossed in this game. C&CG seriously has some of the most memorable voice acting ever. It's really interesting to see how global politics has made this game increasingly prescient/spooky, as many others have mentioned... Even on the China front, not merely the AQ/ISIS dealio
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Nov 14, 2015 04:43
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For those talking about Nuke General, if you never sent your MiGs against enemy fighter craft, you missed out on the most ridiculous part of the game. Meanwhile, the Super Weapon General would just turtle up until they decided it was time to fire 50 particle cannons. At the same time.
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Nov 14, 2015 07:10
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If you poke around in the game's depths, the Superweapon General was originally intended to have USA-restyled versions of all three faction superweapons. There's an American nuclear silo and a hilarious American "Tomahawk Storm" structure sitting unused in the code. As if Aurora Alphas weren't ridiculous enough! There's also a laser silo for the Laser General, who was always my personal favourite.
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Nov 14, 2015 08:00
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I wouldn't really call it predictive of Al-Qaeda or ISIS or whatever; the principles of assymetrical warfare didn't really change since the nineties. I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more if I didn't see it as propaganda - weird thing is that they nailed China and some GLA perfectly (the psychotic flame tank driver being a favorite) and all it'd take for the rest of it not being cringeworthy would be if they were capable of making fun of America as well. Also I play GLA. Demo general forever. Veloxyll posted:For those talking about Nuke General, if you never sent your MiGs against enemy fighter craft, you missed out on the most ridiculous part of the game. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 13:42
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anilEhilated posted:I wouldn't really call it predictive of Al-Qaeda or ISIS or whatever; the principles of assymetrical warfare didn't really change since the nineties. I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more if I didn't see it as propaganda - weird thing is that they nailed China and some GLA perfectly (the psychotic flame tank driver being a favorite) and all it'd take for the rest of it not being cringeworthy would be if they were capable of making fun of America as well. They kind of do in the way that the usa campaign being the last one in zero hour results in the usa failing to accomplish anything of note in the overarching plot that ends in Chinese superiority. The game would have been a lot better if the ooh' ra! got ramped up to comical levels matching the other factions though. e: anilEhilated posted:Wait, MiGs can AA? How the gently caress does that work? Oh, and China not getting a pyromaniac general was a wasted opportunity. Also this
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Nov 14, 2015 13:47
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I honestly think Generals was the C&C game I had the most fun with just due to the multiplayer. The hilarious antics you could get up to with tunnel networks or running over all the supply workers of the enemy was amazing.
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Nov 14, 2015 14:31
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Tunnel networking 8 fully-loaded battle buses into the middle of an enemy base is always fun.
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Nov 14, 2015 14:35
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anilEhilated posted:Wait, MiGs can AA? How the gently caress does that work? The nuke general, though not only has small nukes to drop, he also equips the MiGs with tactical nukes to use against aircraft. It's also pretty frequently suicidal for the AI pilot... Not that in real life we didn't have nuclear torpedos and nuclear air-to-air missiles...
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Nov 14, 2015 15:37
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Alavaria posted:Not that in real life we didn't have nuclear torpedos and nuclear air-to-air missiles... Had, though they were an American thing rather than Russian or Chinese. Nuclear-capable SAMs, however, were reasonably common during the Cold War even if they were primarily designed to use conventional warheads.
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Nov 14, 2015 15:45
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anilEhilated posted:Wait, MiGs can AA? How the gently caress does that work? Alavaria posted:They shoot missiles, is all. They have normal missiles and the napalm bombs. Even regular MiGs doing anti-air attacks would generate a napalm firestorm with their missiles if they fired enough at the target, to the detriment of whatever was beneath them, complete with Black Napalm if that was researched. Found that out the hard way when I tried to intercept some fighters with my own... My garrisoned structures below burned...
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Nov 14, 2015 15:50
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Nothing says "communism" quite like collateral damage.
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Nov 14, 2015 15:51
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anilEhilated posted:Nothing says "communism" quite like collateral damage. Sounds almost like a quote from the game, if this was delivered in a horrible accent...
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Nov 14, 2015 16:07
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Brighter than the sunnn
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Nov 14, 2015 17:33
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 UpdateChina 3: uncut - cut Interesting tidbit: this game was banned in China when it came out. Not very surprising considering the kind of tactics suggested to the player in this mission. New units  Black Lotus: The Chinese commando unit. She has no direct offensive capabilities, instead she carries a laptop which allows her to either hack enemy supply centers to steal money from them (only of limited use against the AI, seeing as it cheats in money), temporarily disable enemy vehicles or capture buildings faster than regular infantry and from a distance. Like all commando units she has stealth. Overall probably my least favorite commando as her abilities just aren't that useful compared to the other factions'.  MiG: The only Chinese air unit. Like all planes it is fairly fast but also fragile. They can fire missiles with incendiary warheads against both air and ground targets, doing good damage against all target types and if they are upgraded with Black Napalm 4 missiles hitting the same location will create a firestorm for additional damage. After firing their payload they have to go back to the airfield to reload however. Like all the air units in this game they are good at covering lots of ground as they can reach any location quickly and hit high value targets where needed but the ammo requirement means they have no staying power. You also don't want them on flight paths leading over enemy air defense, otherwise you will take losses.  Troop Crawler: Unarmed troop transport. Carries up to 8 passengers and can detect cloaked units but otherwise unarmed and fairly fragile. Somewhat handy to ferry troops between buildings but mostly only useful for the detection ability. Factory model comes with 8 Red Guards already inside. New Structures  Airfield: Constructs and services air units. One airfield can hold up to 4 aircraft, which will return here to reload. Additionally it will repair any landed aircraft.  Bunker: Garrisonable structure. Very sturdy and can't be cleared out like regular buildings, but only holds 5 units. Garrison these with tank hunters and put up some Gatling cannons to hold of infantry/air units and you have a very solid defensive line.
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Nov 14, 2015 18:02
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Doesn't China ban games that show anything bad happening to China, period? If that first mission hadn't done it this one would have. Looks surprisingly rough for such an early mission.
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Nov 14, 2015 20:49
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I guess BL could be used to boost your funds or capture something, but she's not really that useful. e: I just put Dragon tanks on the edge and used the flame wall to set up the defense.
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Nov 14, 2015 21:17
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I just sent in the migs, alllll of the migs, so many migs.
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Nov 14, 2015 21:23
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Cythereal posted:Looks surprisingly rough for such an early mission. Its actually not that bad since the tactic of garrisoning tank hunters in a building works really well when the enemy doesn't have toxin trucks and a group of battlemasters with horde bonus blows through scorpion tanks pretty quickly too. I could have built a lot more tanks too, seeing as I ended the mission with thousands of dollars in the bank. Going heavy on MiGs is also perfectly viable as the GLA has all of one Stinger site for air defense. Really one of my main problems with Generals is just how easy it is to end up with tons of money because to keep building reinforcements you have to switch back and forth between the battlefield and your base every minute or so to queue up new stuff. In the old C&C games you could always just set a rally point and build stuff through the sidebar without having to take your eyes of the battle.
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Nov 14, 2015 21:37
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Great, just had to dig up my Generals CDs because this LP made me want to play again. Just want to point out that the Dragon Tanks' ability actually can be useful, since it walls off an area to approach, making it an easy mobile method of blocking a chokepoint. And since Dragon tanks are immune to flames you can get a bunch setting up firewalls in a small area, making it nearly impossible to dislodge them without air attacks. E: drat, can't actually run it on this computer. Ashsaber fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 21:51
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It's been a while since I last played, but I'm quite certain that the firestorm is a thing even without the black napalm upgrade, it's just correspondingly weaker.
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Nov 14, 2015 22:02
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The LP posted:"Destroy the dam? Who are the terrorists again?" Truth is stranger than fiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Yellow_River_flood "To stop further Japanese advances into western and southern China, Chiang Kai-shek, at the suggestion of Chen Guofu, determined to open up the dikes on the Yellow River near Zhengzhou. The original plan was to destroy the dike at Zhaokou, but due to difficulties at that location the dike was destroyed on June 5 and June 7 at Huayuankou, on the south bank. Waters flooded into Henan, Anhui, and Jiangsu. The floods covered and destroyed thousands of square kilometers of farmland and shifted the mouth of the Yellow River hundreds of miles to the south. Thousands of villages were inundated or destroyed and several million villagers driven from their homes and made refugees. An official Kuomintang post-war commission estimated that 800,000 were drowned, which may be an underestimate." "The government, after initially claiming that the breach was caused by Japanese bombing, used the heavy casualties to demonstrate the scale of sacrifice required of the Chinese people. They claimed that 12 million people had been affected by the flood, and in 1948 it estimated the number of deaths at 800,000. A 1994 PRC official history of the war put the dead in the flood at 900,000 and the refugees at nearly 10 million. Scholars exploring the archives now give much lower figures: 400,000–500,000 dead, 3 million refugees, and 5 million people affected (another estimate puts the number of dead at 500,000, and the number of homeless at 500,000)."
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Nov 14, 2015 22:16
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Oh C&C Generals, you are the first game I ever remember causing an entire forum to poo poo itself in nationalistic rage when you were first released. If only you had timed it so that it wasn't during the buildup and subsequent invasion of Iraq, we could have avoided a lot of vitriol. Even with Zero Hour's campaign designed to appease the trolls it still managed to get banned in China. You were an unbalanced mess in multiplayer and everyone chose the same strategies, but when a game actually became something other then tank/nuke/scud/laser spam you were quite fun.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:16
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LEGO Genetics posted:Oh C&C Generals, you are the first game I ever remember causing an entire forum to poo poo itself in nationalistic rage when you were first released. If only you had timed it so that it wasn't during the buildup and subsequent invasion of Iraq, we could have avoided a lot of vitriol. Do you just mean the obvious? (i.e. SA) I started lurking a little after the game came out... I can only imagine what it was like, especially in the golden years of LF 
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Nov 15, 2015 00:24
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Teketeketeketeke posted:Do you just mean the obvious? (i.e. SA) The official EA forums at the time. I wasn't very smart to browse them. They were poison.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:30
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Poil posted:This game isn't Command & Conquer in any way, has no connections to it and should not ever be called with C&C in front! I know. It's way better than anything with the C&C brand published post red alert 1. Seriously, are people ragging on this game for somehow sullying the great name of C&C? You guys played red alert 3, right? Tiberian sun? Whatever the hell that came after C&C3? ditty bout my clitty fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 00:30
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The weird thing is that they have the GLA attack the dam anyhow. Like. The mission could've easily started with the GLA bombing the dam.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:31
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LEGO Genetics posted:The official EA forums at the time. Ah, I can only imagine...
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Nov 15, 2015 00:42
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Loxbourne posted:If you poke around in the game's depths, the Superweapon General was originally intended to have USA-restyled versions of all three faction superweapons. There's an American nuclear silo and a hilarious American "Tomahawk Storm" structure sitting unused in the code. As if Aurora Alphas weren't ridiculous enough! Some of that was used for the shockwave mod which also adds more general's challenges. They also added in a few new generals but only the GLA one is fightable. The tomahawk storm or whatever was added to the USA armor general which I guess makes sense. The commandos also get changed up with the USA commando getting a laser rifle or a grenade launcher upgrade.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:45
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Ilustforponydeath posted:Seriously, are people ragging on this game for somehow sullying the great name of C&C? You guys played red alert 3, right? Tiberian sun? Whatever the hell that came after C&C3?  Veloxyll posted:The weird thing is that they have the GLA attack the dam anyhow. Like. The mission could've easily started with the GLA bombing the dam.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:46
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Also the gameplay in Red Alerts is much closer to C&C than Generals.
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Nov 15, 2015 00:48
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Wasn't there a way to prevent the GLA from destroying the dam, or am I remembering wrong? I also never really noticed before how so many missions start with your forces getting hosed up in the intro. 4/4 so far.
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Nov 15, 2015 01:00
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Dragonwagon posted:Wasn't there a way to prevent the GLA from destroying the dam, or am I remembering wrong? Is there even a single non-gla mission where you don't start with a cut-scene of your stuff being blown up or at least seriously attempted to be blown up? It's been so long that I can't quite remember but it does seem to happen an awful lot. Poil fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 01:24
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Poil posted:Is there even a single non-gla mission where you don't start with a cut-scene of your stuff being blown up or at least seriously attempted to be blown up? It's been so long that I can't quite remember but it does seem to happen an awful lot. The mission that made me quit the Chinese campaign begins with a cutscene of your poo poo getting wrecked--except that it determines what units you start with, and you start in the middle of a big skirmish. And it's pure RNG.  To continue my rant: ... later that mission, the AI starts to spam superweapons, making your ability to continue after the first strike or so ALSO pure RNG. e: I was reading some walkthroughs, and it seems that the later AI superweapon behavior eventually is governed completely by a hidden trigger that a player would never know... 
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Nov 15, 2015 03:16
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Cythereal posted:Doesn't China ban games that show anything bad happening to China, period? If that first mission hadn't done it this one would have. Mentioned that in my first post in thread last page. This game got banned in China for the heavy handed portrayal of the previous two missions and this one. Yeah, here: GhostStalker posted:Anyway, I think I remember this game got banned in China because of these first few China missions show it in a very bad light. First one has a nuke go off in Tienanmen Square and wreck the gate, which is pretty much the iconic shot of Beijing that most media outlets use, and the second has you destroy the Hong Kong Exhibition Center to wipe out some terrorists. The third mission involves you wrecking the Three Gorges drat to deluge the GLA base further down the Yangtze, drat the consequences further down the river. The objectives of the early Chinese missions are loving ruthless. Speaking of the second mission, isn't there a ferry right down from your base (decked out like one of HK's iconic Star Ferries) that will take your troops and tanks across the harbor to the Exhibition Center, bypassing what meager defenses the GLA have set up the way you came in? GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 05:33
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As I recall there is, drops you off right near their base.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:40
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GhostStalker posted:
There is indeed. I don't remember if you could load armor on it, though.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:41
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Sylphid posted:There is indeed. I don't remember if you could load armor on it, though. Pretty sure the ferry captain specified that it was a vehicle ferry in voiced dialogue so you could load tanks on it, but it's been a really long time since I played that mission, so I could be wrong. Ilustforponydeath posted:Tiberian sun? Hey, I resemble that remark!
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Nov 15, 2015 05:51
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What does everyone think was the hardest mission in either Generals or Zero Hour? For me it was the third China mission in ZH. You have to roam around a city and destroy a bunch of statues. The city is huge, there's a ton of traps and enemies around every corner, and I recall the mission being on a timer, so you had to move your rear end to not fail the mission. The first 3 or 4 statues (I think there were five, could be off since it's been a while) were fairly easy to destroy, but there was one statue in the middle of a fairly big GLA base that was the biggest pain in the rear end to destroy, since your base is also under near-constant attack from random groups of enemies coming after you, and the occasional Tunnel Ambush invasion. Also, I don't think you got MiGs in that mission either, or any particular way to damage the statue from a distance before it would get repaired. Felt good to beat that mission, but goddamn was it tough.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:56
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