|
They're also cheap and quick, and going into war without enough modern minesweepers is historical. One of the reasons the Allies failed to force the Dardanelles is that the minesweepers were converted trawlers with civilian crews.
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 02:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Kure Design Bureau comes back with a proposal for a battleship with a hexagonal turret layout, based on French designs. I am not entirely pleased. (Main battery wing turrets are a way to achieve a heavy broadside, but they waste tonnage on turrets that are masked by superstructure. Dreadnought's designers believed that wing turrets would allow her to fire her forward and wing turrets at a target on her forward quarter, but in practice firing the wing turrets so far inboard caused blast damage to the superstructure and decks. A superfiring forward turret was contemplated but designers' believed the lower turret would be rendered uninhabitable by blast, and so went with wing turrets. It was not until the Americans built a superfiring design were British worries about superfiring turrets disproved.) There's worries about superfiring turrets, and there's also another factor in play forward. Superfiring turrets by definition have to be above the turrets in front of them, and forward centerline turrets' height is constrained by the bow (except for one US interwar design I've seen which is absolutely bonkers and didn't get made for very good reason). Two forward wing turrets on the Dreadnought does mean more turret weight, but a superfiring turret would be two decks higher, and lowering the turrets, not needing as tall a barbette, and not having to raise the superstructure high enough to see over it would do a great job of making up for or even beating the topweight of a design with forward superfiring turrets. This isn't necessarily a deciding factor for the Dreadnought class, but the Neptunes being the way they were with a forward single turret, staggered side turrets and a superfiring pair aft suggests very strongly that this was a pressing concern for the RN ship design bureau. Meanwhile the US had experience from the Virginias (which I think would have been the ones to convince the British superfiring was viable for the Neptune class since the South Carolinas were only in service by 1910). Also it is just crazy how different the designs just launching could be from what was starting construction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 02:11
|
|
|
1906 "What the world has to fear are the Slavs and the Yankees." -- Emperor William II  I hate nothing so much as a politician. The war will drag on. I badger the Army high command with visits, telegrams, and letters. They still have made no commitment to an amphibious operation. Our relationship is not good.   Science marches on despite the war.  I-1 fails to report in for more than a week.  Commerce raiding continues on both sides.  The enemy is sighted near Korea! Signal intelligence reports a new American battleship in the theater! I am skeptical. Yashima and Suwo are in Japanese waters...  But only Kasuga and a light cruiser squadron are available to investigate.    Our heroes!  We have a location and a heading!  Our first contact with an American ship since last summer! Two armored cruisers steaming in company... this will not be an easy fight, but I believe we have a chance. They are both lighter than Kasuga. Kasuga turns to unmask her guns as the range counts down... and her engines start to overheat.  We have engaged the enemy for the first time! Kasuga's 8" guns churn up 100-foot waterspouts around Memphis. The secondary guns are in action, and Kasuga scores the first hit! She takes a glance on her casemates in return.  Kasuga signals the light cruisers to join the fight.  Kasuga land good hits on Memphis; in response she is peppered by the American secondary batteries. At 6000 yards the roar of the bursting of shells on the American ships is an audible accompaniment to the puff of yellow on her silhouette. American shell fragments bang on Kasuga's armored flanks.  Half of Kasuga's starboard battery is out. I see if they are game and reverse course to bring the unengaged port battery into action.  The light cruisers engage San Diego; it's important not leave enemy ships unengaged. They shoot too well. (The red line there is Kasuga's outgoing main battery fire. The blue line is incoming fire. Dotted yellow is secondary battery; it's overlaid on the main battery line in this shot. Firing two batteries on one target counts as two ships engaging the targets and makes shot correction harder for spotters. This is one of the reasons heavy secondary batteries were abandoned.) Kasuga's forward turret is jammed and will not train. San Diego has engaged Yoshino.  I would like to try a torpedo attack but Kasuga's engines make this difficult. I am not able to edge down on them. The shooting on both sides is poor. Hit rates are between 0.5% and 1%. Kasuga has fired half her ammunition for two hits. At 9000 yards her ability to penetrate a 4.5" belt is questionable. She tries to edge down but the American cruisers are too fast. Takago takes several accurate salvos but her armor holds somehow. We are getting hits and have managed to close a little. American shells continue to bounce off Kasuga's superior armor. The Americans cannot damage Kasuga but her engines will not stand the strain! We are now in torpedo range.. and the Americans are in perfect firing position. American shells are starting to penetrate. Kasuga is forced to break off. We are running out of ammunition. (Welcome to pre-dreadnought cruiser battles! This sorry performance is typical.)  Kasuga's forward guns run out of shells. Water in her bow compartments is making her progress labored. She cannot continue to engage on her forward quarter and she cannot maintain a stern chase. The light cruisers cannot engage the heavy Americans alone. The American cruisers are leaving. This fight is a draw. Kasuga shadows the American cruisers for the rest of the day but cannot close with them. Yoshino's grates are fouled. Nightfall sees the Americans heading for China. Kasuga's squadron reduces speed and heads for home.  Goddamnit. An unrelated incident tarnishes our already grubby draw.  Pueblo is damaged far away from home and interned in a Chinese port. The war is over for her. France launches Aso as Duquesne.  More ships need to be rotated home for maintenance. The Army continues to sit on its hands. Yashima and Suwo are ready to return to Formosa.  Gunnery training seems to have had an effect. This is good. Kasuga's shooting was notably poorer than the American cruisers'.  Torpedoes can now be aimed independently of the tubes. They can also now circle.  ... I don't think we're likely to get a battleship engagement here.  Two more American battleships have arrived, and another pair are steaming across the Pacific. I press the minesweepers into patrol service despite their green crews and dispatch more destroyers to the south. Automatic range transmitters happen. Now fire control stations are relayed range data from the tops electrically.   Izumi sinks the American cruiser sent to destroy her! We have sunk our first American warship!  The Kamikaze series reaches completion... we are not happy. (The entire class will be one knot slower than designed. This is bad luck; she was not overweight as planned.) American raiders continue to have more success than our own.   American battleships are not really in the area, it seems. (Signals intelligence is very iffy in the early game. They reported an American dreadnought in Japanese home waters when I'm confident they are all still on dry land in America.)  The Army wants more resources... FOR WHAT?! I'm willing to give them whatever they ask for if they'd simply get into the war. With the destroyers complete but not enough money for battleships we have a chunk of cash lying around at the moment.  Signals intelligence places four American battleships in Japanese home waters. We have only two of our own. If we can damage them they will be forced to intern themselves in neutral ports however.  This is never a good sign at the beginning of a scenario.  Yep. Night contact. Azuma evades and hopes the destroyers will be able to see well enough to launch torpedoes. Searchlights stab into the low-hanging clouds. The destroyers report an enemy battleship! I think it looks more like a cruiser.  She's already in with the convoy, but she's also already taking hits. Galveston dodges the first torpedo of the night. Azuma gets a good hit at close range. The American is running.  Azuma casts around. Her engines overheat in short order. drat these triple-expansion engines. Azuma loses the convoy, then picks it up again. It starts to rain. Then it starts to rain harder. Azuma's navigators posit ludicrous positions for the convoy winking in and out of sight on the port beam. When dawn arrives the American cruiser is nowhere to be seen. Apparently we won this time.  The other nations are laying down battleships while we fight this pointless war. There are now seven American battleships in Southeast Asia. The Army has delayed long enough for us to lose our dominance at sea. In our rare, tense meetings they speak of conserving their forces for the inevitable confrontation in Manchuria. Their naked cowardice is disgusting.  The Americans are stepping up attacks on our convoys. This time, Hizen and Suwo are present, along with two cruiser squadrons.  The American cruisers are in sight... apparently. They are not yet visible from the battle squadron.  Hizen has not had time to get her deck awnings down. It is June. (In moving her from British to French yards I didn't notice her superstructure settings had changed. The ugly swathe of gray across her deck is supposed to be her forecastle, but in the primitive drawing options I've set the line to the wrong mode. It will need a refit to fix this visual glitch. Hizen is a very tall ship to have a fo'c'sle and two levels of large superstructure.) Everyone is terrified of American battleships, it seems. A Memphis-class cruiser is mistaken for a dreadnought. These are no doubt the same cruisers Kasuga fought this spring.  I have little doubt that this is a battleship squadron. Hizen and Suwo turn to attack!  Oklahoma and Arizona, maybe. They are typical battleships but Arizona is a bit thin-skinned and Oklahoma is slow.  The cruisers begin the battle as they race to support their larger cousins. A few minutes later the battleships open fire at 12,000 yards. Six miles away, silent columns of water rise among the enemy ships.  The Americans fight strangely. Arizona should not be so far from Oklahoma and so close to our line.  Hizen scores the first hit of the battle; her 9" battery is shooting well. A few minutes later she takes a hit in the belt at close range. It does not penetrate. We are near 4000 yards now. Hizen continues to score hits. An Ameircan 12" shells bursts on her forward superstructure. Arizona is buried in foam from shellbursts! Hizen takes more hits on her tall superstructure.  A 12" shell holes Hizen forward. She is flooding badly but damage control should be able to handle it. Her forward progress is pushing seas in through the hole! Suwo slows to let Hizen come at her flooding. Arizona's forward turret is a burnt-out wreck! Now in the front of the line, Suwo begins to take the weight of fire. Once again slow speed makes a torpedo attack impossible. (You have to be leading a moving target to launch a torpedo with any hope of accuracy. Torpedo attacks from behind almost never occur because the physics of it just do not work.)  Fire from Arizona has slackened, but she also manages to hole Suwo in her unprotected forepeak.  The range continues to close and we are really hammering each other now. Arizona is fouling Oklahoma's aim and the wind carries the smoke into the American gunners' line of sight while it carries ours away from our targets. (This is a much bigger issue than you'd think. Cordite and coal smoke are significant problems when you are trying to see and hit out to 16,000 yards.)  Hizen is still being slow about getting her flooding under control. Our shooting is much better but still not up to the Americans' standard. Suwo's main battery particularly has not done well.  Hizen is in serious trouble! Salt water penetrates the starboard feed system and those boilers must be shut down immediately. We must try to limp to Kilung at 6 knots!  Just a few minutes later an armor plate on Hizen's starboard belt is pushed in! This type of hit creates only a moderate leak but tears the hull open in a manner that's very difficult to fix at sea. I am very worried for her now. Suwo is making a hash of her turn (for some reason her captain has decided his flooding is bad enough that he should take station behind Hizen , he's completely wrong) taking herself totally out of the fight!  At her present rate of flooding Hizen has less than an hour to get it under control!  Hizen's bridge is destroyed by a 12" shell from Oklahoma! This will not help her damage control efforts.  Hizen is now on fire! She has got her flooding mostly under control however. And not a minute too soon; she has only a third of her reserve buoyancy.  Hizen is sinking. Her crew abandons ship but finds that the boats have been riddled by shellbursts. At least the water is warm! Suwo turns for Kilung at maximum speed. This battle has been a catastrophe! (This went south very fast. 1906 damage control is not good, but I did not expect Oklahoma to be left virtually unengaged by Suwo's abominable shooting. It didn't help that they got a lot of critical hits and we got a hole in the prow. Prow hits at combat speed push seas in at much faster rate than normal flooding, both historically and in the game.)  Arizona is disengaging. We are in no position to pursue. Suwo's aft turret is disabled again. It has been for most of the fight. Oklahoma's gunnery is superb. Suwo has not landed a hit in almost an hour.  Suwo turns south to cross Oklahoma's bow and force her to turn away, but her accompanying destroyers misunderstand her signals!  The destroyers realize their mistake in only a few minutes and rush back to Suwo's side. Oklahoma is caught between cliffs and torpedoes and is forced to turn away or run herself aground. (It also looks like Oklahoma may have run out of shells for her forward turret.)   In the twilight gloom Hizen slips under the water. There are no ships around to take her men off. Night falls.  Kasagi and Hashidate investigate Hizen's last known position. They do not pick up any survivors.  Seriously?! This blow is so insulting it knocks me out of character. This sort of thing would be unremarkable if it did not come on the heels of such a great loss.   Today went very badly indeed for the Empire. All I can think is that this should not have happened. The civilians and politicians sank Hizen.  It is July. The Americans commission two battleships. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
Well, I'm pretty sure I'd be ready to call a mulligan at this point. I do hope it is possible to recover from a catastrophic early war.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:22
|
|
|
It is, as long as the peace terms aren't too bad. Though our chances at a white peace are probably gone now. We'll have to make concessions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:23
|
|
|
One battleship is one battleship. It isn't too hard to come back from that sort of loss. Just to be clear, all these ships will be irrelevant in 10 years as well. 5 if we had the budget to build dreadnoughts faster. If they aren't irrelevant by 1914 that will mean something will have gone badly wrong with our dreadnought building program. (Like having to fight a stupid war 1905-1908 or something.) Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Nov 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:32
|
|
|
Plus the other battleships the French took off the naval roster.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:40
|
|
|
That wasn't pleasant, but Kashima, Aso and Ikoma were garbage from the midgame perspective. If we had them they'd go into mothballs within a couple years and probably never come out even in wartime because they'd just be free kills for the enemy. Aso and Ikoma may have filled the battlecruiser roll in doctrinal terms but they were crap battlecruisers. It would have been nice to have them around to sink 1899 armored cruisers but they would have been pasted by an encounter with an Inflexible much less a Lion or Lutzow. It's hard to overstate how hard Dreadnoughts obsolete everything that came before. The real hit we've taken is the prestige and it's probably going to continue to get worse. Advocating for peace from the Navy Office is going to look awful. And prestige is the campaign victory points. Remember, hundreds dead and our ships at the bottom of the ocean matter less in this game than our personal influence and standing. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Nov 16, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
Stop deflating this wonderful sense of DOOOM! You'll look better when you make a "miraculous" comeback. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:52
|
|
|
I find the VP ratio means everything as to what kind of peace agreements you can get.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 06:59
|
|
|
At least the IJA is not trying to assassinate members of your service, or trying to draft your naval designers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 19:12
|
|
|
Danann posted:At least the IJA is not trying to assassinate members of your service, or trying to draft your naval designers. That would explain a lot, actually.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 02:02
|
|
|
Danann posted:At least the IJA is not trying to assassinate members of your service, or trying to draft your naval designers. The fact that I don't feel I should ask "is that true?!" says a lot about the relationship between the IJA and IJN...
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 02:20
|
|
|
1906 "The Yankees are dead-set against us. Only 1/4 of the population of the United States are what you may call natives; the rest are Germans, Irish, Italians and the scum of the Earth!" -- Admiral Fisher   The first run of wartime submarines are coming out. That means we have been at war for 14 months.   The French are completing 25 knots cruisers. Chitose and Aso are no longer the fastest cruisers in the world.     A flood of inventions comes our way, including turbines! Sadly not 3 centerline turrets which is what I really want. With 3 centerline turrets and main battery wing turrets we could lay down a ship with Dreadnought's turret layout. We will have to start building a Danton if this keeps up much longer, but at least we'll have some decent technology to stuff into our delayed dreadnoughts. I already talked about turbines in my last update, but really, they are an important development. For all its revolutionary design Dreadnought's really surprising quality was the sheer weight of guns she managed to carry while still outpacing everything but Regina Elena at 21 knots, without sacrificing armor protection. In fact, Dreadnought carried 800 more tons of armor than her predecessor Lord Nelson even with her heavier battery although she only displaced 1,800 tons more. The technology most responsible for Dreadnought's heavy battery was her steam turbines, which cut her powerplant weight by more than 20% compared to triple expansion engines, and then cut it even further when hull form experiments using models in an endless pool reduced horsepower requirements. This tonnage went from the propulsion plant into her battery of ten 12" guns. Turbines also eliminated the mechanical vibrations that plagued piston-driven triple-expansion engines. Officers on Dreadnought resented their berths being moved forwards near the noisy auxiliary machinery, while enlisted men were initially worried about being moved aft but with experience infinitely preferred the turbines. I'll let her captain explain: "[The turbines] were noiseless. In fact, I have frequently visited the engine room of the Dreadnought when at sea steaming at 17 knots and have been unable to tell whether the engines were revolving or not. During a full speed run, the difference between the engine room of the Dreadnought and that of the Irresistable was extraordinary. In the Dreadnought, there was no noise, no steam was visible, no water or oil splashing about, the officers and men were clean; in fact, the ship to all appearances might have been in harbor and the turbines stopped. In the Irresistable, the noise was deafening. It was impossible to make a remark plainly audible and telephones were useless. The deck plates were greasy with oil and water so that it was difficult to walk without slipping. Some gland was certain to be blowing a little which made the atmosphere murky with steam. One or more hoses would be playing on a bearing which threatened trouble. [The same bearings that have hobbled our armored cruisers in combat.] Men constantly working around the engine would be feeling the bearings to see if they were running cool or showed signs of heating; and the officers would be seen with their coats buttoned up to their throats and perhaps in oilskins, black in the face, and with their clothes wet with oil and water." -- Captain Reginald Bacon, Dreadnought  I am not in the mood to acquiesce to further Western insults!  Cruisers clash!  Chitose and her sister Niitaka sight two American cruisers just before nightfall.  Chitose loses the American ships at night... and picks them up again 400 yards off her bow!  We narrowly miss ramming. Chitose passes between the American ships close enough to toss a biscuit onto her deck!  The Americans start shooting! Torpedoes away! A miss or a defective torpedo; the Americans disappear again. We blunder around at high speed in the dark with the lights extinguished.  And regain contact! And lose it again. Are they headed for the Strait of Hokkaido? We try to pick them up there. (More pictures of an empty sea have been excluded.) I reorganize the ships into a search line. It makes us more likely to lose contact at night, but I'd dearly like to put a torpedo into one of these American ships. Our high speed makes successful torpedo attacks more likely, since we can lead targets. Niitaka gets lost in the dark almost immediately. Dawn arrives. They aren't here.  I think we know the capabilities of French BC Aso, intelligence guys!  I rotate more ships between Japan and Formosa, though now the objective is different. We need to prevent an American landing on Formosa.   Though we now have parity in the South China and Sulu Seas we are still fighting less than half of the American navy. For practical purposes the American Pacific fleet has unlimited resources.  Belatedly, I start fortifying Formosa. We commission more flawed, slow destroyers and Kasagi has condenser trouble. The American navy is always moving. There are now no cruisers in Japanese home waters.   The Army reports stunning victories... I'm not sure where they're fighting but I'm glad to have some good news. Perhaps I misjudged them. (The game is really made for European powers and the Great War. Occasionally the random events will just whiff like this and throw out something impossible... but we'll take it.) Another American raid on the southern coast. This time Chikuma and Chitose are on patrol.  The accompanying destroyers fan out until we're in an excellent search formation. Reports of American cruisers off Fukue Shima again.  And the cruisers appear. Chikuma throttles back to let her squadron reform. They are slower than us, and there are two hours before dusk. The race is on! Chitose is making a leisurely 16 knots to join the fight! First hit goes to Chikuma. She makes revolutions for 25 knots as the Americans threaten to overhaul her.  Chitose cannot get up soon enough. Chikuma is being peppered. Chitose opens fire but Chikuma is still being engaged by both American cruisers.  The Americans turn to run... directly over a mine. It does not appear to have exploded! Chikuma takes a waterline hit but can still make 24 knots for the moment. These waters are swarming with patrols; the American cruisers are dodging destroyers. (Ships set to coastal patrol will show up in actions near the coast.)  Our faster ships close for a torpedo attack... and the Americans lay into them hard.  We slow to 20 knots to extend torpedo spoons... and the Americans reverse course!  Dusk is approaching! No! Water sloshing around in the hold is slowing us down. We approach for a torpedo attack a second time. Their shooting is so much better than ours.  Chitose is battered at 500 yards and no torpedoes are launched. The destroyers mill around. I break off the engagement before Chitose can take more serious damage. I send Chitose home and search for the American cruisers. She blunders directly into them! Launch torpedoes dammit! It starts to rain and the Americans find a merchant. *image not present because it's night and you can't see anything! it's realistic!* This is a complete mess. Torpedoes are launched, the Americans disappear, nothing hits, and Chitose blunders into the fight a second time!  Chikuma is hit by a torpedo and sinks. The destroyers seem to have decided to press the attack on their own.  With our advantage in speed and torpedo tubes this should not have gone this way. Still, night fights are chaotic and this happens. We have lost our second real battle. Chitose limps into port. The Americans slip away into the rainy night. Once again the destroyers find no survivors.  Battleship Michigan has been interned in a foreign port, probably because of engine trouble. The Americans suffer their first operational loss.  We get a look at USS Georgia!  She's exactly the sort of ship I'd like to have laid down six months ago. More raiding activity, more mechanical trouble in the fleet. Between the stunning defeats the Navy has begun to settle into a grim routine. New docks will be complete in two months; I cannot delay much longer in laying down a Dreadnought even if she is a Danton. Tensions with France continue to worsen. She has six battleships in Southeast Asia now.  The Americans renew talks for a white peace. I leap at the chance no matter how bad it looks. This war is devouring lives, ships, and money, without even the hope of the Army seizing American assets now.   Talks fail and I am humiliated. We lose an old light cruiser on the same day. (I lost one prestige there for nothing.)  The war is not going well.  Docks and submarines finish, and crossfiring turrets are available! I can now construct Invincible rather than Danton!  HMS Indomitable shows off her crossfiring turrets. The enemy comes back to Formosa. The 8" cruiser Tokiwa goes to meet them.  Looks like an American cruiser. Juneau and a sister. They give battle, but they cannot possibly penetrate Tokiwa's armored hide with their 6" guns. If they hold still long enough they'll be killed. (This battle was hilarious but there was not much to see. Images eliminated.) They immediately put a hole in Tokiwa's prow. Tokiwa does not place a shell on target for 15 minutes. When she does it is a 6" from her secondary battery. Tokiwa's forward turret guns are missing salvos, firing sporadically. This is a very bad show. Tokiwa turns to unmask her aft turret and it jams. A full hour into the battle Tokiwa lands her first 8" shell. Tokiwa's main battery is 1 for 93. Her turrets jam constantly. While her shooting may be terrible Tokiwa's engines are performing admirably.  The aft turret has been jammed for half an hour. More than a thousand shells have been put through the gun tubes for 12 hits. Something resembling a gun duel rages at 6000 yards. I believe one American cruiser is now too badly damaged to escape, but neither side has scored a hit for 30 minutes! Tokiwa breaks the streak by putting a few 8" and 6" shells on target. Tokiwa's forward turret runs out of ammunition. Her rear turret jams again. Her stokers are exhausted down in the boiler rooms.  The Americans sink one of our destroyers with a single salvo. This is not fair. Tokiwa' superstructure is riddled with fragments. The aft turret jams again. One of the American cruisers is dead in the water! We eagerly come alongside for a torpedo attack!  It seems she still has steerage way. This will be difficult to set up. Especially since the sun has just set. Tokiwa has run out of 6" shells and her aft turret cannot hit the target at 300 yards! I will personally see to it that her captain disembowels himself! The turret jams again! The American ship has restored her engines and disappeared into the night!  What?! I-I'm shocked. Tokiwa has become a hero ship of the Japanese Empire, and I am lit up by her reflected glow! Do you know what this means? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?! THAT CAPTAIN WILL ESCAPE HIS RICHLY-DESERVED DEATH! ------------ ------------------ --------------------------- As you can probably tell, I'm about to lay down a four-turret crossfiring plan dreadnought. Therefore, we need to have a vote on the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of this new machine: left-handed or right-handed? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 02:51
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:What?! I-I'm shocked. Tokiwa has become a hero ship of the Japanese Empire, and I am lit up by her reflected glow! Do you know what this means? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?! THAT CAPTAIN WILL ESCAPE HIS RICHLY-DESERVED DEATH! Sorry, but we need a good (if exaggerated) result for the papers back home. If you were so desperate for a Dreadnought why didn't you just go with the Nassau configuration? I mean, yeah its hilariously inefficient on tonnage, but its a Dreadnought. 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 03:01
|
|
|
R
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
That's what I'm referring to in Danton; she was built as a pre-dreadnought but one of her alternate plans would have had her with that main battery turret layout. I was hoping to avoid launching that because it's so wasteful, and because I didn't have steam turbines or torpedo protection yet. Incidentally, money for battleships has only been available for the last four months or so anyway. We've completed a lot of cruisers and destroyers and submarines in the last 14 months. Because I waited to lay them down our new BBs will have an eight-gun broadside with four turrets rather than an eight-gun broadside with six turrets. That's about 2000 more tons for armor and engines. I have finally fixed the jpeg artifacting too. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 03:08
|
|
|
Left hand.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 03:50
|
|
|
Right Hand
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 04:06
|
|
|
Coffeehitler posted:Left hand.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
Japan is a Left Hand drive country.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
Wait, the funnels are all wrong never mind.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 05:54
|
|
|
I don't know what we're voting on, but Left Hand!
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:00
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:The fact that I don't feel I should ask "is that true?!" says a lot about the relationship between the IJA and IJN... Oh that's not even the particularly bad stuff. Admiral Yamaguchi once placed his superior Nagumo in a headlock to persuade him to bring Yamaguchi's shorter ranged carriers to Pearl. Nagumo once threatened to stab a fellow officer (Shattered Sword page 77 should have details). Assassination and intimidation were commonplace in the 20s and 30s, Yamamoto got promoted to CinC Combined Fleet in large part because he would probably be safer posted outside Tokyo after having supported the Washington naval treaty and opposing Japan's membership in the Tripartite Pact. Arglebargle III posted:That's what I'm referring to in Danton; she was built as a pre-dreadnought but one of her alternate plans would have had her with that main battery turret layout. I was hoping to avoid launching that because it's so wasteful, and because I didn't have steam turbines or torpedo protection yet. Incidentally, money for battleships has only been available for the last four months or so anyway. We've completed a lot of cruisers and destroyers and submarines in the last 14 months. Umm, why not call it a Kawachi? Also, firing across your ship and covering the thing in soot is incredibly gauche.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:00
|
|
|
To be honest I don't know much about the IJN.  if you want to say something about it!Anyway, it's obvious what the name of our next class should be! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:13
|
|
|
You got me playing this again, as austria, france just out of the blue decides to kick my teeth in, I don't even get an event to drive things just "things take a turn for the worse, and each turn closer and then war in 1901" I'm winning the crusier battles at least.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:25
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:To be honest I don't know much about the IJN. I guess I will next evening then (curse you gainful employment!). It's actually the only navy whose entire inventory of dreadnoughts (and semi-dreadnoughts depending on how you want to class the Kawachi class) I can list off the top of my head. The relevant bit here though is that the Kawachi was the Japanese attempt to make a design based on what they learned from Tsushima and the big gun theories of the day, and had six twin turrets in a hexagonal pattern just like the Nassau and Helgoland classes. Interestingly early design drafts had two pairs of superfiring turrets fore and aft and en echelon turrets amidships but they couldn't fit weight. Then they got pressure to use 50 caliber guns like the RN was using, but they could only afford a pair for the fore and aft turrets. Pretty normal for early big gun ships, all told. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:32
|
|
|
Kawachi class was all 12" guns for the heavy battery, so I'd consider it a Dreadnought. It is the Satsuma class with its mixed 12" and 10" heavy battery I'd call a "semi dreadnought".
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:39
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Kawachi class was all 12" guns for the heavy battery, so I'd consider it a Dreadnought. It is the Satsuma class with its mixed 12" and 10" heavy battery I'd call a "semi dreadnought". I'd tend to as well, but the mix of 12"/50 and 12"/45 as well as not having turbines means it misses out on a decent amount of the Dreadnought's advantages. Of course mixes like that also get into talking crap about amidships turrets because they tended to shoot farther because they generally were located between the boilers and machinery spaces so the steam pipes heated the magazines nicely, which increased how far the turrets shot at the same elevation by a little bit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:43
|
|
|
Eh, my criteria is "is it a monocaliber battleship"? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Eh, my criteria is "is it a monocaliber battleship"? That's fair enough, I'd have to do some looking to see whether they could really expect to drop all the shells in the salvo on the same place, regardless of how they did it, and again, amidships turrets could have similar issues.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
Left Those Europeans and their offshoots will not be able to comprehend our attacks from this side.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 10:31
|
|
|
And this is *after* giving all your men gunnery lessons? Horrifyingly bad aim.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 14:35
|
|
|
Left.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
David Corbett posted:And this is *after* giving all your men gunnery lessons? Horrifyingly bad aim. Believe it or not this is historically accurate. We haven't had the best luck in this LP, but hit rates between 1 and 2% are the norm for this time. That's why I keep getting so close, but the Americans have been shooting better than us at close range with an annoying consistency. Astounding as it may seem, this is a significant improvement over late 19th century gunnery. At the bombardment of Alexandria in 1881 an Allied fleet fired more than 3,000 shells for 12 hits. . . And they were shooting at forts! Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 16:18
|
|
|
"Sail closer so I can hit them with my Katana!" - Famous japanese admiral saying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 17:48
|
|
|
TheDemon posted:Honestly? It'll take months before you'll need those Bs in a war as Japan anyway. There were war scares in 1899, 1900, 1902, and 1909 in Europe. The United States fought a war in 1898 and Russia and Japan fought 1904-1905. In 1906 Germany threatened Russia with war over the Austrian annexation of the Bosnia-Herzegovina Then of course the Great War happened. It's not that ahistorical.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 18:08
|
|
|
Voting right, since I have no idea what it is that we're voting for...
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 19:03
|
|
|
Teaser for next update:  Spot the Hunteresque design problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 18:53 |
|
|
You missed a pretty important checkbox there. I'd submit it makes the design a bit more accurate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 19:23
|
|