|
Calax posted:Isn't the reason we still have cannons on fighters basically come down to "Nam"? Since the missiles of the day were only mildly reliable, and Soviet aircraft had guns, we found that we needed to re-add guns to our air superiority fighters; which became the E/J model with some additional improvements. However, there was at least USAF one squadron of F-4Cs (I think they were C drivers) that specialized in gun runs on troops that flew with all available hardpoints toting 20mm gun pods.
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:33 |
|
|
Calax posted:Isn't the reason we still have cannons on fighters basically come down to "Nam"? They really don't take that much space on the air frame and can be used for a variety of tasks, ground support included. There isn't much of a reason to not have one on your plane. They can be used, you're not losing out on some other feature to shove in the folding-chair sized space, get gun. There is never any expectation for them to ever be used in air combat ever again, though, no.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
A gun on a plane is like a knife on a rifleman. Sure, you'll probably never use it on an equivalent foe, but it's lightweight, takes up almost no space, doesn't cost that much, and it's got a ton of other uses.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:26
|
|
|
Calax posted:Isn't the reason we still have cannons on fighters basically come down to "Nam"? Coffeehitler posted:Since the missiles of the day were only mildly reliable, and Soviet aircraft had guns, we found that we needed to re-add guns to our air superiority fighters; which became the E/J model with some additional improvements. However, there was at least USAF one squadron of F-4Cs (I think they were C drivers) that specialized in gun runs on troops that flew with all available hardpoints toting 20mm gun pods. Basically, the F-4 was designed around shooting down bandits from beyond visual range with the AIM-4 Sparrow (represented in this game by the SAAM!), but the American ROE in Vietnam almost always required visual contact before engaging. This made the Sparrow basically useless and forced the Phantoms into close-in knifefights with MiG-17s and -21s, which excelled at it. Eventually the US started improving the close-range Sidewinder and installing gunpods on the F-4, along with specifically training elite pilots in dogfighting (in between greased-up volleyball matches, anyway) with the hope that they would pass on the knowledge to their squadron. The first Phantom with an internal cannon was the F-4E, which is the one in most Ace Combat games. 5 and Infinity also have the F-4G, which was designed to bait and destroy enemy radar and SAM sites by essentially playing chicken with them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:27
|
|
|
Wild Weasel is the manliest thing in all of air combat doctrine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:31
|
|
|
Cooked Auto posted:So I took the previously mentioned advice and uploaded the HAWX videos to Youtube. Out of 38 videos only two got completely muted and one got slapped with a restriction making it unwatchable outside the US and Japan. Unfortunate, Maelstrom from 2 is blocked in the US. Shame, as I recall it being one of (the only?) fun mission to watch in 2. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Nov 25, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:32
|
|
|
Gamerofthegame posted:There is never any expectation for them to ever be used in air combat ever again, though, no. Calax posted:Isn't the reason we still have cannons on fighters basically come down to "Nam"? By the end of the Vietnam war, missiles had improved to the point where they had fully supplanted guns as the primary weapon of American combat aircraft. The F-8, for example, was designed as a gunfighter, but ended up getting most of its kills with missiles. However, they were not suitable as the only weapon, because missiles were not fully reliable, and still aren't. With supersonic closure rates, things can escalate quickly, and a conventional turning fight will often trend toward a low energy state in which guns are a viable weapon. The advent of HOBS missiles has made turning fights much more deadly, but guns are still kept as a back-up weapon because they are not reliant on external sensors, and have the additional benefit of providing a low CDE option on fighter-bomber aircraft in an air-to-ground role.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 05:39
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Wild Weasel is the manliest thing in all of air combat doctrine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 06:04
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:This is not really true. No, it's not, but if you find yourself in a fight where your only option is your gun in a modern fighter jet you've done something horribly wrong. All the other points about the gun is true, though. There's no real reason not to carry one. Back in the first gulf war, I believe, there was an incident where the only available air support for a group of troops were two F-14s, which is not a ground attack aircraft by any metric, who did several strafing runs on troops in a building IIRC.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 10:17
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:Unfortunate, Maelstrom from 2 is blocked in the US. Shame, as I recall it being one of (the only?) fun mission to watch in 2. Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. drat. And yeah, it is one of the more fun missions in the game. Even if the subsequent British mission is pretty okay too. Edit: Today I discovered that apparently both HAWX games have been removed from Steam. But the HAWX 2 DLC is still available. And it apparently lacks English language support. 
Cooked Auto fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Nov 25, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 11:44
|
|
|
Calax posted:Isn't the reason we still have cannons on fighters basically come down to "Nam"? I think it's more along the lines of why soldiers still get knives, even though they're issued fancy automatic guns: If your big gun fails, you must have a back-up weapon. In real life, most planes don't go into battle with an AC missile load-out, and it's easier to miss or have a dud. So what will your plane do if you're out of missiles, but there's still enemies around? And no, ramming is not an option, although it would be  as hell.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 12:50
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:I think it's more along the lines of why soldiers still get knives, even though they're issued fancy automatic guns: If your big gun fails, you must have a back-up weapon. Typically turn around and fly home because you're still way out of gun range I'd imagine.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 14:35
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Typically turn around and fly home because you're still way out of gun range I'd imagine. This. Plus there aren't that many planes in an engagement since world war two.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
VKing posted:No, it's not, but if you find yourself in a fight where your only option is your gun in a modern fighter jet you've done something horribly wrong. To be fair, the F14 did have the ability to run with bombs, including paveways. ALthough I'm not sure if they were equipped for it until after the Gulf. Also, if you wanna have some fun in Google Earth HERE is he USAF boneyard. Try to spot airplanes from orbit!
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 16:47
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Wild Weasel is the manliest thing in all of air combat doctrine.  He kinda looks cute.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 17:59
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Typically turn around and fly home because you're still way out of gun range I'd imagine. Gamerofthegame posted:This. Plus there aren't that many planes in an engagement since world war two.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 18:28
|
|
|
Cangelosi posted:
If anyone's curious, the acronym on the bottom is short for "Ya Gotta Be Shittin' Me". Supposedly adapted from the response the co-pilot of one of the first Wild Weasel craft gave to his mission description. There was a jokey definition for Wild Weasel in the back of the manual for an old combat medic-based game I never actually played but read through a bunch of times, if I can find it I'll post that too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Kal-L posted:And no, ramming is not an option, although it would be There was a navy pilot in WWII who got a medal for sawing a Zero in half with the prop on his Corsair when his guns jammed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:There was a navy pilot in WWII who got a medal for sawing a Zero in half with the prop on his Corsair when his guns jammed. Wasn't that he flew close enough to the tail of the zero that he sliced away at his elevator/rudder, causing it to lose control and crash? Wikipedia entry (I assume this is the one you're talking about) quote:One particularly unusual kill was scored by Marine Lieutenant R. R. Klingman of VMF-312 (the "Checkerboards"), over Okinawa. Klingman was in pursuit of a Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu ("Nick") twin-engine fighter at extremely high altitude when his guns jammed due to the gun lubrication thickening from the extreme cold. He flew up and chopped off the Ki-45's tail with the big propeller of the Corsair. Despite missing five inches (127 mm) off the end of his propeller blades, he managed to land safely after this aerial ramming attack. He was awarded the Navy Cross.[46]
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 22:18
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:Wasn't that he flew close enough to the tail of the zero that he sliced away at his elevator/rudder, causing it to lose control and crash? I may have exaggerated a little to make it sound even more awesome than it actually was, yes. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
Cangelosi posted:
The weasel's look on the patch is pretty honest about the mission: "The gently caress did I get myself into" Kadorhal posted:If anyone's curious, the acronym on the bottom is short for "Ya Gotta Be Shittin' Me". Supposedly adapted from the response the co-pilot of one of the first Wild Weasel craft gave to his mission description. Didn't see this as I typed the above. How...apt. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 22:28
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:I may have exaggerated a little to make it sound even more awesome than it actually was, yes. It already sounds metal as hell.  (But that may be because I love WW2 air combat)
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 22:31
|
|
|
I'm totally okay with this thread becoming a PYF aerial warfare story thread in between updates. Have one of mine, the first and only air-to-air kill by the F-15E Strike Eagle and the only recorded air-to-air kill EVER with a motherfucking bomb :quote:Strike Eagles were able to destroy 18 Iraqi jets on the ground at Tallil air base using GBU-12s and CBU-87s. On 14 February, an F-15E scored its only air-to-air kill: a Mil Mi-24 helicopter. While responding to a request for help by US Special Forces, five Iraqi helicopters were spotted. The lead F-15E of two acquired a helicopter via its FLIR in the process of unloading Iraqi soldiers, and released a GBU-10 bomb. The F-15E crew thought the bomb had missed its target and were preparing to use a Sidewinder when the helicopter was destroyed. The Special Forces team estimated that the Hind was roughly 800 feet (240 m) over the ground when the 2,000 lb (910 kg) bomb hit its target. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15E_Strike_Eagle#Operations_Desert_Shield_and_Desert_Storm
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:07
|
|
|
ninjahedgehog posted:I'm totally okay with this thread becoming a PYF Your avatar quote is incredibly appropriate for this story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
Steam thread told me this exists http://store.steampowered.com/app/340860/ "In the distant future, humanity has turned Venus into a livable environment. However, not all is well on Venusian soil as political intrigue pushes the way to help a young girl, the ace pilot known as Sonic Venus, to find the whereabouts of her missing father."
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 08:29
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:Steam thread told me this exists http://store.steampowered.com/app/242130/ To me, this looks like a spiritual successor to Ace Combat. And you can get it for less than 10$! I really need to play this again...
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 09:17
|
|
|
Is VT as dead and empty as all of its screenshots indicate?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 09:23
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:Is VT as dead and empty as all of its screenshots indicate? From what little I played of the campaign/challenges, no. Not sure what the online is like. I imagine its a little sparse. Also, the method to unlock other planes is a little tedious if you want some of the later stuff. Unless they changed it recently.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 10:34
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:Is VT as dead and empty as all of its screenshots indicate? Nah, instead it's the development that is dead.  While I've been interesting in getting VT the reviews about the lack of progress and multiples issues have turned me off.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 12:09
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:Is VT as dead and empty as all of its screenshots indicate? Not only is VT dead, it's also terrible. It's pretty, but it has terrible music and gameplay. The flight models are floaty and slow, the explosions come out from at least 50 metres behind the target, voice acting is just the worst and don't even get me started on the camera. That and its a game that doesn't allow for changing resolution without restarting. In 2015.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 19:26
|
|
|
Speaking of knifefights and the bayonet. It still gets use. quote:A British army officer who, after running out of ammunition, used his bayonet to charge a Taliban fighter has been awarded the Military Cross.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 06:28
|
|
|
quote:Vector Thrust stuff Yeah, Vector Thrust is a nice idea stymied by slow, sometimes ill-advised development (the game recently zoomed out of early access through beta then to full release in like a month, solely on the whims of the publisher, and especially since that included a price hike absolutely no one thought it was a good idea). I think it's been two months since the last patch, and multiplayer refusing to work properly if anyone uses a custom skin anyone else is missing or the mission editor crashing to desktop while trying to do pretty much anything with it is a pretty big dealbreaker when a major selling point and 90% of the reason I got it was to make custom content. There's a reason this LP is inspiring me to shell out for replacement copies of the PS2 Ace Combat games rather than play more Vector Thrust. Gameplay at the very least got better with that last patch, since they added a "full arcade" option for skirmish mode that makes every standard missile equally effective (about equivalent to the F-22's AIM-9X they added a patch before that, fixing the issue of my missiles just plain refusing to track targets half the time) and removing countermeasures (fixing the issue where AI countermeasures are 100% effective while mine are only 1%). Verdafolio posted:Speaking of knifefights and the bayonet. It still gets use. At the risk of completely derailing the thread until the next update: the way I understand it is that the British army still trains with and even actually uses bayonets for the dual facts that A) they were always feared for it (even the Japanese in WWII, who keep in mind were the army that put bayonet lugs on every loving gun they used, would refuse to charge the British with bayonets while fighting in Burma), and B) now that nobody else really uses them, nobody really knows how to deal with the enemy using them either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 06:54
|
|
|
So in keeping with my typical rear end-backwards style of LPing a game, here's a kickass promo trailer for Zero that plays when you let the title screen go on for too long. There's no plot spoilers in it, but you do get to see a preview of some of the enemies we'll be encountering in the game: I've added it to the OP and first mission post as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 07:20
|
|
|
the thread posted:Vector Thrust Can I fly a Viper, and can I ram Sidewinders and AMRAAMs up hostile rear end? Also crow, if you don't fly an F-16 in this LP we will have words. Loud, angry words.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 10:12
|
|
|
Fanzay posted:Can I fly a Viper, and can I ram Sidewinders and AMRAAMs up hostile rear end? I might fly one once, out of deference to PJ, but not that often because, well... PJ's a bitch 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 10:47
|
|
|
I don't even remember PJ. I just want you to fly the F-16 because it's the loving F-16! Do eet
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 11:24
|
|
|
The Ace Combat series always make nice trailers, their music choices tend to be spot on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 14:34
|
|
|
Weissritter posted:The Ace Combat series always make nice trailers, their music choices tend to be spot on. Don't forget Puddle of Mud for Ace Combat 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWRdMX1VaZA
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
This is a good LP
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:33 |
|
|
Calax posted:Don't forget Puddle of Mud for Ace Combat 5 I think I know this trailer by heart when it comes to line. Always been a favourite of mine and I just watched it over and over again before I got a chance to actually play the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 03:56
|
|