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dcseankun posted:How D.C. spent $200 million over a decade on a streetcar you still can’t ride i mean, $200m is still pretty cheap for a transportation project. especially in loving DC where I can't even fathom how lovely the politics game must be. but yeah streetcars without dedicated lanes are pretty dumb as actual transportation, even if the property value/tax boost is nice
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Dec 11, 2015 18:59
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Cygni posted:i mean, $200m is still pretty cheap for a transportation project. especially in loving DC where I can't even fathom how lovely the politics game must be. they haven't actually built the project yet. they built a barn and a test track for $200M. also it's a streetcar. so it serves no purpose whatsoever. with $200M they could have set up a really nice bus line that would actually have been faster and more comfortable.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:07
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Grandmaster.flv posted:in related news loving banner week for the MBTA. two jumpers, another guy pinned under a train, deadman switch on a train disabled, and the new extension plan is dead in the water. hmmm. looks like some serious issues. better cut funding.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:07
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Grandmaster.flv posted:Malaysian. which is why living in a Hispanic neighborhood is hilarious because everybody thinks I'm the other kind of brown. but you're a muslim who works in a bar? that seems really uncomfortable (for you)
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Dec 11, 2015 19:08
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Cygni posted:but yeah streetcars without dedicated lanes are pretty dumb as actual transportation, even if the property value/tax boost is nice dc streetcar is actually even dumber than regular streetcars. normal streetcars suck up a lot of street space because they run in the center of the street and you have to space for pedestrians to get on and off the streetcar dc didn't want to do that, so they made the streetcars run along the outside edge of the road, like a bus. unlike a bus, they're on rails. so they can't swerve to dodge badly parked cars or avoid breaking off mirrors. someone fucks up their street parking and your streetcar system stops dead until it's towed lol
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Dec 11, 2015 19:09
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streetcars are completely retarded
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Dec 11, 2015 19:11
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just do elevated rail or subway. if you don't have the money for it your city isn't big enough to need it
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Dec 11, 2015 19:11
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there is also option 3: dedicated busways. costs a little less than elevated rail, but delivers the same performance seems to work good in singapore.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:15
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:they haven't actually built the project yet. they built a barn and a test track for $200M. the track is done, its just short. at like $80m a mile its not a great deal, but its not really that crazy. LA's crenshaw light rail project is over $250 million a mile. charlottes Lynx streetcar extension (with no car barn) is like $60m a mile. but i agree w/ you, streetcars without dedicated lanes arent really transit and a bus would probably work better for, you know, moving people.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:16
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Cygni posted:the track is done, its just short. at like $80m a mile its not a great deal, but its not really that crazy. LA's crenshaw light rail project is over $250 million a mile. los angeles is mostly dedicated right of way, so they are actually building stuff. that's why it costs 250 million a mile. (and when it's done, it might actually be faster than just walking to your destination.) dc is a car barn and a test track. and the test track is just rail embedded into existing streets. and if it is ever finished, it will still be useless because it will manage to be slower than a bus while also much more expensive to maintain.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:21
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:but you're a muslim who works in a bar? what's uncomfortable? do you get weirded out eating at falafel joints?
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Dec 11, 2015 19:28
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:los angeles is mostly dedicated right of way, so they are actually building stuff. that's why it costs 250 million a mile. (and when it's done, it might actually be faster than just walking to your destination.) trust me i know, i was just comparing costs geeze gosh. like i said, its on the high end of streetcar prices in the states, but its not that absurd. most are around $60m a mile. streetcars are mostly for raising property values/taxes since developers love to come in and build generic mixed use lofts near them and rent them form $3k a month since they are 'near transit'
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Dec 11, 2015 19:29
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Grandmaster.flv posted:what's uncomfortable? do you get weirded out eating at falafel joints? no, but my religion does not prohibit the consumption of fried chickpeas it's like a jewish butcher who specializes in pork. i guess it could happen but it is weird
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Dec 11, 2015 19:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no, but my religion does not prohibit the consumption of fried chickpeas funny that you're playing analogy police in here after this gem Notorious b.s.d. posted:are you also cool with human trafficking?
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Dec 11, 2015 20:06
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no, but my religion does not prohibit the consumption of fried chickpeas great well I like making money while I'm in school and just because my religion says not to drink doesn't mean other people can't. thanks and God bless/allahu ackbar
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Dec 11, 2015 20:19
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at the date posted:funny that you're playing analogy police in here after this gem i'm pretty comfortable with the human trafficking analogy. you're totally cool with exploiting workers because otherwise they would be left in calcutta. and that's bullshit. why the gently caress can't we talk about, you know, easing immigration policy in a way that doesn't gently caress over workers and line the pockets of a narrow group of people?
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Dec 11, 2015 20:20
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quick somebody ask me how I reconcile brunt queer with being Muslim because those things are also incompatible (they're not)SO DEMANDING posted:hmmm. looks like some serious issues. better cut funding. yeah our governor is doing nothing about it and is making us unfit for the winter
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Dec 11, 2015 20:21
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:there is also option 3: dedicated busways. costs a little less than elevated rail, but delivers the same performance Bus rapid transit is almost always a better idea than streetcars. You can take advantage of some existing infrastructure and the train-like stations and service make the white flighters feel better. The buses can also drive around parked cars
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Dec 11, 2015 21:05
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yard salad posted:The parked cars can also be rapidly ticketed and towed for operating in the bus lane or bus zone
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Dec 11, 2015 21:17
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yard salad posted:Bus rapid transit is almost always a better idea than streetcars. You can take advantage of some existing infrastructure and the train-like stations and service make the white flighters feel better. The buses can also drive around parked cars yeah in an ideal world BRT has dedicated lanes so you get the look of a train but the savings of a bus. there's less overhead when it's just pavement
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Dec 11, 2015 21:18
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:how do the bar employees get to and from the bar? you start your shift before public transit closes
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Dec 11, 2015 21:44
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the dc streetcar is great because for years only the rail infrastructure was paid for without funding for the overhead power lines also it stops well before union station so you still have to walk quite a distance
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Dec 11, 2015 21:46
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http://imgur.com/vKpoxMh  
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Dec 11, 2015 21:59
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Well, we're gonna need SOMEWHERE to hold the Unreal Tournament.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:00
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Imgur > Things Fitting Perfectly Into Other Things
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Dec 11, 2015 22:03
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the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people my fav was looking through the public polling numbers for LA's measure R years ago and even with identical transit times, identical estimated capacity, identical headways etc... people were like 50% more likely to say they would ride something if it was labeled as a train instead of a bus, and like 80% more likely to say they wanted to live near it
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Dec 11, 2015 22:23
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Cygni posted:the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people buses are stigmatized because they're slow and unreliable. a real BRT system, with dedicated busways that are not mixed with traffic, is just as fast as a subway. the stigma disappears pretty much overnight (new york style "brt," with a dedicated lane that's full of cabs and assholes, is just a regular bus that goes 20% faster. dedicated lane != dedicated right-of-way. as with a regular bus, only people with no other choice will ride them)
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Dec 11, 2015 22:35
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Cygni posted:the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people americans think that mass transit is a communist handout to the underclass designed to get people hooked on government assistance. and yet they're somehow doing the Lord's work by driving on federally funded highways in their private vehicle (likely made by a company bailed out with federal money)
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Dec 11, 2015 22:46
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:a real BRT system, with dedicated busways that are not mixed with traffic, is just as fast as a subway. the stigma disappears pretty much overnight i hope you're right. my midwestern city is adding one soon and i hope it works out
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Dec 11, 2015 22:47
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Cygni posted:the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people
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Dec 11, 2015 22:47
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Cygni posted:the downside of BRT in the states is that white/rich people hate buses, especially in some cities where they see buses as devices for subhuman pig people Just spitballing here, but maybe the reason the results were skewed was not the bigotry of those surveyed but (A) that trains are faster and more reliable than buses in every city on the planet, and (B) the people surveyed rightly paid no heed to projected figures about fantasy transit systems.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:52
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Shaggar posted:that's because they are lol shagger!!!!!!!
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Dec 11, 2015 23:08
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at the date posted:Just spitballing here, but maybe the reason the results were skewed was not the bigotry of those surveyed but (A) that trains are faster and more reliable than buses in every city on the planet, and (B) the people surveyed rightly paid no heed to projected figures about fantasy transit systems. lol nah
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Dec 11, 2015 23:09
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subway is seriously imba in Cities:Skylines
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Dec 11, 2015 23:11
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yard salad posted:i hope you're right. my midwestern city is adding one soon and i hope it works out a real brt system costs 80% as much as an actual train system. go figure that they don't get built very often. your midwestern city is almost certainly going to go for the new-york-style brt where it's not any kind of "rapid," it's just lines painted on the street. extra crapitude points: don't use a proof of fare system, so that you can spend 3 minutes waiting for people to pay every single time the bus stop
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Dec 11, 2015 23:17
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at the date posted:Just spitballing here, but maybe the reason the results were skewed was not the bigotry of those surveyed but (A) that trains are faster and more reliable than buses in every city on the planet, and (B) the people surveyed rightly paid no heed to projected figures about fantasy transit systems. right nobody would expect a brt to be good or fast because they have no experience with buses on dedicated rights of way.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:17
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ometro posted:http://www.ometro.com/index.php/announcements/bus-rapid-transit/ sounds like we'll get pre-boarding fare payment but a kind of half-assed dedicated right of way
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Dec 11, 2015 23:24
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yard salad posted:sounds like we'll get pre-boarding fare payment but a kind of half-assed dedicated right of way it's mixed with traffic, so it will still be hilariously unreliable like a bus. just a 20% faster bus
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Dec 12, 2015 00:10
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the only actual BRT is the tunnel in Seattle, cross traffic and its associated gridlock, rando pedestrians, people driving in the bus lane even though it's illegal, etc will keep it at slightly faster bus
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Dec 12, 2015 02:14
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if enough people take the bus there are less cars so there's less traffic busses would need to deal with 
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Dec 12, 2015 04:46
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