|
Black Baby Goku posted:Some cultures aren't compatible with other ones. Thankfully America can change its culture of racism and white supremacy into something that is compatible with other cultures. Don't worry! Manic X posted:The problem began a very long time ago. Back in the early times of recent human civilisations (I'm talking 4000+ years ago) people were policed by communal values. Breaking of communal values meant one was abandoned by the community and left to fend for themselves. Humans work best in smaller communities. A global community can never work since it is hard to empathise with people you have never met. Well, if you ignore women, children, slaves, visitors and other strangers.
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 18:48 |
|
|
Manic X posted:The problem began a very long time ago. Back in the early times of recent human civilisations (I'm talking 4000+ years ago) people were policed by communal values. Breaking of communal values meant one was abandoned by the community and left to fend for themselves. Humans work best in smaller communities. A global community can never work since it is hard to empathise with people you have never met. That's why we have capitalism. With exceptions for monopolistic abuse (amongst other cases), the general rule is that you benefit when you keep the customer coming back. Your welfare can be linked to theirs. Otherwise yeah we'd still be living in caves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 18:10
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
SedanChair posted:Oh not at all. Once we've gotten the "are you a bigot" question out of the way, we can move on to "are you a sucker being manipulated by bigots." why is that
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 18:12
|
|
|
Mr Hootington posted:Are you saying Christianity and Judaism are no longer politicized? Have you ever been to a church? We no longer have Christian or Jewish theocratic governments (please don't let Ben Carson with the election  ) and most Christian-majority countries put some amount of effort into keeping Jesus out of government. Several hundred years ago, most of Christendom lived under Catholic canon law, which is basically the same poo poo as sharia in a different wrapper. Muslim-majority countries at one point were largely secular, until repeated American and Soviet political fuckery pretty much made radical Islam the only viable ideology left after the superpowers co-opted, corrupted, or destroyed all others. Iran had a bona fide democracy until the US rewarded them for their bold democratic experiment by overthrowing it and installing their pet tyrant in its place.Political Islam has nothing to do with Islam being "incompatible with secularism" or other such nonsense, it is a condition that was created only a few decades ago and could go away if the West stopped constantly inflaming it. If Christians and Jews can live under democracy, so can Muslims, the religions are not really all that different.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:We no longer have Christian or Jewish theocratic governments (please don't let Ben Carson with the election I may have misread your post. Thought you meant Christianity and Judaism were not politicized when they are. I agree with you for the most part, but do think that Israel and the USA while not outright theocratic governments are heavily influenced by Christianity and Judaism in dangerous ways. I do not disagree that Muslims can live under democracy. The evolving secularization of Islam was set back decades by the US and Russia loving around. Some of it can even be traced back to the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the subsequent craving up and genocides.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Oh not at all. Once we've gotten the "are you a bigot" question out of the way, we can move on to "are you a sucker being manipulated by bigots." Whenever I hear self-styled leftists suggesting this(Ali is a simplistic dupe being manipulated) I have to wonder why we don't hear the same thing about those who aren't black women. I guess it's just easier to suggest that she just isn't up to the task of thinking for herself and is being directed by white men than it is to actually admit that she has a mind of her own.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Whenever I hear self-styled leftists suggesting this(Ali is a simplistic dupe being manipulated) I have to wonder why we don't hear the same thing about those who aren't black women. I guess it's just easier to suggest that she just isn't up to the task of thinking for herself and is being directed by white men than it is to actually admit that she has a mind of her own. And they are the first to announce who is, and isn't, a bigot. Such a mighty task that befalls them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
The Insect Court posted:Whenever I hear self-styled leftists suggesting this(Ali is a simplistic dupe being manipulated) I have to wonder why we don't hear the same thing about those who aren't black women. I guess it's just easier to suggest that she just isn't up to the task of thinking for herself and is being directed by white men than it is to actually admit that she has a mind of her own. People of any race who go to work for the American Enterprise Institute are dupes. Or bigots.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:07
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:People of any race who go to work for the American Enterprise Institute are dupes. Or bigots. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
It is really cool to think your way of thinking is the moral authority on the matter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:24
|
|
|
Black Baby Goku posted:It is really cool to think your way of thinking is the moral authority on the matter. Moral authority like this? Black Baby Goku posted:It's not fit for western society. Let it stay in tribal third world hellholes. Like this? Black Baby Goku posted:that's multiculturalism (social mixing) and its a spectacular failure. Maybe only certain "types," with certain "credentials," get to have moral authority.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Maybe only certain "types," with certain "credentials," get to have moral authority. Is the cognitive dissonance getting strong enough yet? We're talking about an insane repressive God-ordained system.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
An Enormous Boner posted:Is the cognitive dissonance getting strong enough yet? We're talking about an insane repressive God-ordained system. Is this more moral authority? Where can I apply to get some of it?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:38
|
|
|
Generally speaking I would like to live in a society where your phenotype and your ethnicity do not have much, if any, statistical impact on who you have sex with or work with or live next to. For obvious reasons that means that implies a largely secular society in which traditional cultures take a backseat and people associate with each other based on other criteria (shared interests, geographical proximity, etc.). So let's say we start this discussion from the perspective that greater cultural integraiton is a good thing, and that in the longer term stuff like Sharia Law, even if practiced on a voluntary basis, is not something to be encouraged. It's not very clear to me how people posting in this thread right now propose to bring that society about. We've got posters -- some, based on their rap sheets, with a long track record of racist trolling -- attacking multiculturalism and claiming some cultures are just terrible and backwards. Well, what's the alternative policy for integrating people and getting them to live together? Other than trying to sound tough by telling what you obviously think are the hard cold truths about those backwards minorities, what, substantively speaking, is the alternative approach to actually creating a more level, welcoming and secular society?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
Helsing posted:Generally speaking I would like to live in a society where your phenotype and your ethnicity do not have much, if any, statistical impact on who you have sex with or work with or live next to. For obvious reasons that means that implies a largely secular society in which traditional cultures take a backseat and people associate with each other based on other criteria (shared interests, geographical proximity, etc.). Don't allow religious tribunal systems outside of the actual law of the land? Don't allow religions to treat women as second class citizens, and most importantly stop pretending that all cultures mores and social aspects are compatible with western society?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkfRkR1Pqag&feature=player_embedded Hysteria as a sweedish church removes crosses and identifies direction of mecca to accomodate refugees that it is sheltering. People are calling them bad Christians but I think they are greater than most. They talk of national pride. gently caress pride and gently caress nations too. These are people's lives at stake. There is one nation, the kingdom of God, and one people that matters, the proletariat of all the world, God's people. Muslims are our neighbors and they are children of God just like everyone. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:43-44 34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 Anda second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:34-40 Why is this such a ubiquitous attitude? Major presidential candidates are calling for registration and religious tests for refugees with zero consequences.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
Black Baby Goku still doesn't understand that anyone's desires or moral authority measures up to the First Amendment trump card, which comes out on top of everything. First Amendment rights to contract, association, and religion even if it's disgusting (purely for example).Black Baby Goku posted:Don't allow religions to treat women as second class citizens Forget arbitration. How the gently caress are you going to accomplish this without straight banning any exercise of "traditional" and/or "conservative" religious beliefs of most any kind?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 21:22
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:Forget arbitration. How the gently caress are you going to accomplish this without straight banning any exercise of "traditional" and/or "conservative" religious beliefs of most any kind? It's surprisingly easy, just claim that you support doing that too. Then, don't actually support it!
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 21:49
|
|
|
- Bacon is delicious. Are you guys mad? - Sex is good, and getting married to have sex is stupid. Is best to have sex with a women before getting married because is possible that two people to not be sexually compatible. It will be sad to marry a women and be incompatible that way. But is easy avoidable. - Your ideas about moral are not universal and probably are wrong. Don't be so full of yourself to try to force others to share your beliefs. - I don't say womens are superior, or inferior, they are different, but they are humans. Because they are humans they are worthy of respect from everyone. All these rules havout threating womens worse is barbarism and dehumanizing. - Theres nothing bad with being gay. If you don't like gays, don't be gay yourself, don't talk to gays or whatever. If your country have laws against gays, your country is a lovely hellholle and suck. - Theres nothing bad with being atheist. If you don't like atheist, then gently caress yourself and don't be atheist yourself. - No you don't own your childrens. - No you don't own your daughter to sell her. - No you don't own your wife. Is another person and if you are allowed to beat her, she is allowed to beat you, because she is a person like you are a person. Being male don't make you special. - Europeans don't share your religion and beliefs, deal with it. We also think your religion is backwards and stupid, deal with it. Islamophobe is too big a word. It mean you "hate" islam or "fear" it. Anyway If somebody feel that way, and really hate islam, I don't think is a irrational thing to do. Tei fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
Helsing posted:It's not very clear to me how people posting in this thread right now propose to bring that society about. We've got posters -- some, based on their rap sheets, with a long track record of racist trolling -- attacking multiculturalism and claiming some cultures are just terrible and backwards. Well, what's the alternative policy for integrating people and getting them to live together? Other than trying to sound tough by telling what you obviously think are the hard cold truths about those backwards minorities, what, substantively speaking, is the alternative approach to actually creating a more level, welcoming and secular society? humans just need to behave rationally, duh *plays with model trains* (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
We need to string up the last pastor with the entrails of the last imam.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Tei posted:- Bacon is delicious. Are you guys mad? I agree with this post.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:15
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:We need to string up the last pastor with the entrails of the last imam. Oh come on
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVa4ERqz97o 21:00-24:00 is good but so is the whole video.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
Tei posted:- Bacon is delicious. Are you guys mad? quote:Islamophobe is too big a word. It mean you "hate" islam or "fear" it. I just think is a stupid set of beliefs, thats much less strong than "hate". Anyway If somebody feel that way, and really hate islam, I don't think is a irrational thing to do. Do you think Do you think following a thousand-year old religious creed is silly and un-modern? Congrats! You're not an Islamophobe. Unless you want those adherents to that religious creed to immediately renounce their faith and flagellate themselves for being awful people for daring to follow a non-european religion. That may be a bit xenophobic. Black Baby Goku posted:I agree with this post.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
Tei posted:Islamophobe is too big a word. It mean you "hate" islam or "fear" it. Anyway If somebody feel that way, and really hate islam, I don't think is a irrational thing to do. That approach was played out when homophobes complained about being called homophobes. And if you're trying to say that people who complain about Islam aren't utterly terrified of it: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:55
|
|
|
Heres a article about Sharia Law. http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/Problems_with_Muslim_Sharia_Law
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 22:56
|
|
|
Black Baby Goku posted:Don't allow religious tribunal systems outside of the actual law of the land? Don't allow religions to treat women as second class citizens, and most importantly stop pretending that all cultures mores and social aspects are compatible with western society? How do you actually go about implementing this? Seems like you're going to drive these practices underground when, if anything, greater tolerance might encourage the kind of social mingling that speeds up the process of integration. Large populations of Catholic Irish and Italians weren't integrated by outlawing papism. If anything it's the opposite - as racism and active discrimination against these groups declined they lost most of their distinctive identity outside of a few occasions like Columbus Day or St. Patrick's Day.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
Mandy Thompson posted:Oh come on Do you think that organized religion is cool and good, or do you agree that it is a net evil and that its promoters should be cleansed? Tei posted:- Bacon is delicious. Are you guys mad? Conservatism is a disease of the mind. Conservatives are only islamophobic not because they disagree with the things you criticize, but because Islam competes with the source of their own ideology. Also lol at you quoting atheism.wikia.com
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:06
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:That approach was played out when homophobes complained about being called homophobes. And if you're trying to say that people who complain about Islam aren't utterly terrified of it: Homosexual Extremists
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Why can we have alternative secular tribunals but not religious ones? Obviously everyone who opposes sharia courts must want to do away with binding arbitration and other forms of ADR right? Or is there something about sharia tribunals in particular that they don't like? Hmm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Ogmius815 posted:Why can we have alternative secular tribunals but not religious ones? Obviously everyone who opposes sharia courts must want to do away with binding arbitration and other forms of ADR right? Or is there something about sharia tribunals in particular that they don't like? Hmm. Are those things "God said so"-based?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:10
|
|
|
Tei posted:Heres a article about Sharia Law. Wikia? Nice 'article', mereswine. Doesn't even have a bibliography at the bottom, just a couple citations from unscholarly sources. Doesn't argue anything, just goes "look at all this gross poo poo theocracies get up to!". If you weren't arguing in bad faith, or are English-As-Second language and your poor argumentation is due to language issues, I would reccomend using more primary/secondary sources instead of glorified blogs (or even a scholarly sort of blog at the very least). Perhaps attempt to perform some sort of synthesis tying abuses by patriarchal governments to specific readings of the Koran or specific Islamic philisophical traditions? Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Nov 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:11
|
|
|
Wales Grey posted:Wikia? Nice article, mereswine. Doesn't even have a bibliography at the bottom, just a couple citations from unscholarly sources. Doesn't argue anything, just goes "look at all this gross poo poo theocracies get up to!". Just post a link to the wikipedia articles about the death penalty, the American carceral system, Abu Grahib and Guantanamo to show that so-called enlightened democracies can be equally barbaric.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
An Enormous Boner posted:Are those things "God said so"-based? No, but what they are based on is equally arbitrary. It also isn't necessarily "the law", which is supposed to be the problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:14
|
|
|
Wales Grey posted:Wikia? Nice 'article', mereswine. Doesn't even have a bibliography at the bottom, just a couple citations from unscholarly sources. Doesn't argue anything, just goes "look at all this gross poo poo theocracies get up to!". Did you just call that guy a dolphin?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:19
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:Do you think that organized religion is cool and good, or do you agree that it is a net evil and that its promoters should be cleansed?  You are painting us all with a pretty broad brush there. And cleansed? Who is the real villain here?
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:23
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:Just post a link to the wikipedia articles about the death penalty, the American carceral system, Abu Grahib and Guantanamo to show that so-called enlightened democracies can be equally barbaric. SedanChair posted:Did you just call that guy a dolphin? My original post called Tei a man but I didn't want to misgender them, so I went with the gender indicated on their profile.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
Mandy Thompson posted:
You can't really make an omelet without breaking a few priests, I'm afraid. Joking aside - religion is a major source of conservatism in this world and a lot more should be done to combat its evil influence, including ridiculing it, desacralizing it, breaking its taboos, and so on. Of course all this should begin at home, this is not a call to persecute the religious worldwide.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 16, 2024 18:48 |
|
|
Wales Grey posted:Wikia? Nice 'article', mereswine. Doesn't even have a bibliography at the bottom, just a couple citations from unscholarly sources. Doesn't argue anything, just goes "look at all this gross poo poo theocracies get up to!". Wikipedia is the most popular wiki and is a encyclopedia, and is only natural that people see a wiki and asociate it with things like citations things and stuff you see in a encyclopedia. But this association is wrong. Not all wikis are encyclopedias, or need to be. One of the reasons why I like wiki pages, is because everything in a wiki page is suspicious and can be wrong. You should never take anything in a wiki page at face value. You must use your brain and your rationalism to read a wiki page. To me this make a wiki more valuable than other resources. I hate how people take at face value things like what journalist say in TV or something in a book... just because is written in a book.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 23:35
|
|