Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
I'm so glad to be at a place that doesn't do Agile. We have our own issues (we don't do Agile or Waterfall, just kind of have projects), but at least we don't have:

- Planning poker
- Micromanagement thinly veiled as estimation meetings
- Daily 30 minute meetings where everyone stares at their shoes in a circle and tries to tune out the 2-3 upbeat "morning" people
- SCRUM consultants
- Arguments over what constitutes an MVP
- Union style "don't work too hard or you'll make our velocity too good" attitudes
- Jargon

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
The only way I would accept another job at a place that employs a SCRUM consultant is if they're paying me to be a SCRUM consultant.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

HardDisk posted:

If you don't have jargon, what do you have? :confused:

Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

:smug:

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

cheese eats mouse posted:

I work for a huge insurance company (designer with dev knowledge/exp) and our delivery team is on agilefall with the development team completely walled off from us.

We also are suppose to switch desks a lot and can't keep anything personal anywhere. I'm still sitting where I planted my butt 1.5 years ago.

This is what you don't do.

That sounds awful. BTW am I recalling right that you're in KY? Get on the louisville.io slack and look in #jobs.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
I worked at a place for a bit that if a bug was discovered in a feature you built, it came back into your sprint as a 0-point task that had to be done alongside whatever else was in your todo list. So dumb...

cheese eats mouse posted:

Do you go to the Build Guilds at all?

No. I pretty much leave work at work and don't do too much outside of the office. I rather be out riding my motorcycle or turning wrenches than talking shop.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

baquerd posted:

It's a fun game Agile aficionados like to play. You see, X points can't be mapped onto Y hour/days of week, because there are so many variables (meetings, team variability, etc.). This conveniently ignores that after a certain amount of time, you'll have a rough idea for a given team and environment what the points -> time mapping looks like (note: this is literally the concept of velocity). Some people get really frustrated when you try to turn points into time though.

LOL yeah pretty much.

"Points don't equal time!!!!!!"

*adds a specific amount of points to each two-week sprint*

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

cheese eats mouse posted:

Yea I was trying to figure out if we've inadvertently met. I know a lot of the guys in that slack through BG meet ups.

I'm sure we know people in the same circles, it's a pretty small industry. I've worked @ TLH/Ooh/Ind if you know what any of those places are. Currently work for an Infosec company out of state (thank GOD. A lot of the local companies are poo poo).

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

cheese eats mouse posted:

Ooh is becoming like UPS pretty much everyone has worked there. I interviewed but never hired. It was weird to me to not see any women in design or dev roles there. All the local agencies are crap. None of them pay at all and expect you to work 50-60 hours. Never touching it again.

Its not a BAD place, just really segregated and cliqueish. I think that was when I realized that I am simply getting too old for some of the more childish elements in this industry. I hit my limit on a Friday and put my two weeks in on Monday morning. Didn't even have a job lined up.

And yes, all the agencies are pretty crap, just churn and burn, with both product and talent.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

ultrabay2000 posted:

I have a friend who worked at Ind but he jumped ship when they got bought out. It seemed pretty cool before then but I only know from his account. I applied to a few things around Louisville over the years but none of them ever panned out.

I had a few friends who worked there (and at least one goon). One made it up until just a couple months ago before he had enough.

The company had potential but it was not managed well imo. They actually fired me because I told them emphatically I was done working weekends. lol.

E: Oh yeah, almost forget, they contested my unemployment claim and lost. Fuckers. I only used it for like a week it was really just the principle of the thing. Also I know of at least one Christmas they ruined for a previous employee's family due to their (imho again) EXTREMELY vindictive and litigious nature.

revmoo fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 21, 2016

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
You. I like you.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

quote:

"I worked on Story #3 on The Sprint Board yesterday, I will work on #3 today as well.

This is why standups are dumb. Your boss and/or ticketing system should ALREADY KNOW THIS. Same with blockers. Just flag your ticket in Jira or whatever and update it and ping the right people.

This whole stand up in a circle each morning and pretend we don't have tools to share information thing is silly. Not to mention why are you waiting until the next DAY to bring up issues?

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Gounads posted:

It's not for the boss, it's for your team mates.

How often would people look in a tool to see what everyone else is working on?

If you're not working with your teammate on a project why does it matter? If you are working with them then you know what they're doing.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Vulture Culture posted:

Daily standups aren't for bringing up issues, unless by "bringing up issues" you really specifically mean "I was bitten by this behavior yesterday in this thing we have/use, hey everyone, watch out for this so you don't get bitten too."

Facilitating communication really isn't that hard.

I'm glad I work in an environment where we don't need to "facilitate communication". If someone runs into an issue or needs to announce something they do it in the #dev chatroom where everybody sees it. It's asynchronous and synergistic.

I ran the numbers on dev hourly rates * 10 developers @ 15 minutes a day. It was very illuminating. Those morning standups are expensive!

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Vulture Culture posted:

Out of curiosity, how frequent are your releases?

At least once a week, but it varies a lot. Some times we'll do a more than one a day. Our record is five. Just depends on what's queued up.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
I made a #cat_pics channel in our company slack and it is by far the busiest channel. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Good god Lync is terrible. My favorite is the bug on OSX where attempting to send OR receive a file blanks out your conversation and you have to reload the app to get it back. Or how history is flat-out broken. Or where it can't handle reconnecting. It's awful.

I'm using Sky now instead which is its own blend of bad, but it's at least better than the official client.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Docjowles posted:

I had good success with internal Openfire Jabber servers at past jobs :unsmith: ... But this was also like 10 years ago when "imitating AOL Instant Messenger" was all you asked of your chat tool. The world has moved on.

Current job uses HipChat, which has weekly multi-hour outages during prime business hours. For a good time, subscribe to their status page email updates. We chose it over Slack because we're already all-in on the Atlassian stack anyway. But it's buggy garbage that I'd have a hard time recommending to anyone. I think I actually prefer the application to Slack; it's basically IRC with some nice tweaks for 2016. But holy poo poo is it unstable and buggy.

You know you can run hipchat local right?

We were actually in the beta, beta ended, server kept working lol. It still works even though we aren't paying. Stopped using it though regardless. I kind of miss it.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Hipchat sales rep

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Axiem posted:

My work has Slack, but we haven't pushed the button for making it "official" or paying for it, because we 1) want its login to use our Exchange LDAP, and 2) more importantly, we want to self-host it, because something something client information something something.

Some people in the company are wanting to move us to Cisco Spark because we have such a great relationship with Cisco according to them, though given how little I've heard about the product, I'm immensely skeptical that it's any good.

Just use Mattermost. Free and supports ldap.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Jokes on them when you pull those scripts seamlessly into a real CI setup.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Everyone spends waaaaaaay too much time worrying about estimates and points and time and all that crap. It's pointless.

Just do sprints. Put things in there you are pretty sure you can get done inside of the sprint timeline. If you fail try to improve next sprint.

That's it. Now fire your Agile consultant.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Vulture Culture posted:

I can't even blame this person for not wanting to do any work. I get that the company is growing, yeah, but this is irresponsible Mickey Mouse poo poo to the most extreme degree. A single person is in charge of outsized deliverables instead of small stories, no code review is happening, the client isn't engaged in any of the changes that are happening (read: you are doing waterfall), and management is absolutely clueless about what their critical projects look like for months? The whole company deserves to burn down over a red stapler.

:agreed:

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
I've worked at some pretty decent sized companies and only ever dealt with a DBA at one of the smaller ones. The dude had no clue what he was doing and wasn't even as good with SQL as the developers.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Vulture Culture posted:

This is why not doing code review makes baby Jesus cry.

I once had a guy under me that was instructed to add the current time (with seconds) to a call center display screen. So he wrote a function that made an AJAX call to the server every second to find out the current time.

I didn't chew him out but I did mock him mercilessly and make him go back and redo it.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

rt4 posted:

In most software development, it seems to me that reflection would only be good for tapdancing around bad object design. I'd be really interested in reading anything that proves me wrong!

Not a Java dev but I'm inclined to agree. I find a lot of the utility stuff is good for either debugging or building framework functionality, but is a bad idea to use in actual program code.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
Coverage is not equal to completeness. It's still very easy to have bugs sail right through unit tests....

This is why (at least in the web world) I prefer regression/integration testing. I'd rather test that an application does what it's supposed to, than test that an application's plumbing works. I guess I just like a more holistic approach. I recognize that a lot of applications in the finance, medical and engineering fields require a lot more rigorous testing but personally I don't want to be responsible for writing code when lives/money is on the line anyway. If you're spending real hours writing unit tests for a twitter clone then I pity you.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
How do the job listings in everyone's cities look? Right now there are less development postings in my city than I've EVER seen, including during the recession. I ran a quick search on a variety of languages that are popular here and I'm actually coming up with zero listings for a lot of stuff like Ruby/Rails, when there would be literally tens or hundreds before. Even C# which is huuuuuuuge in this city has like 10 jobs and most of them are repeats or incredibly stale.

I'm still managing to book interviews but I'm having to really dig this time around and it's a little concerning. Is it just because we're towards the end of the fiscal year or is something else going on?

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

leper khan posted:

I love how associate means partner in law offices and intern in software.

It's like navy captain vs army captain.

Home Depot uses that word too. One of my first jobs was "Lot Associate" which is somehow more demeaning than "Cart Bitch"

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Pollyanna posted:

Related to testing: if your app depends on a connection to an API to work properly, is it better to bypass it/stub it out, or should the test environment enforce a live connection to the API while running tests? I added some code in the app to bypass requiring a connection to our VPN if you're running unit/integration tests, cause it was causing problems with testing stuff like login and setting users up (our app relies on an ActiveDirectory connection). My coworker argues that since the app uses AD, it should always be connected to AD, even in the test environment. Is my approach reasonable? Should I be stubbing that API out, or requiring to be there even if it makes some tests either impossible or a bitch to write?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is pretty simple; if you're doing unit testing then you mock the API out. If you're doing integration testing then you test the actual API connection.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Pollyanna posted:

I'm going to start job hunting again.

Protip: you might want to wait till the first of the year. There are no. loving. tech. jobs. right now. Job sites for my city in all the popular languages are absolutely dead right now. We were discussing earlier and it seems others are seeing similar things. I think the sentiment is that the combination of end-of-fiscal-year timing, the election, and impending recession are making hiring managers put a hold on things for now.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Polio Vax Scene posted:

I hate inheriting the projects of the senior developer at the place I work. It's the most monstrous inefficient spaghetti code every time and its easier to just rewrite entire blocks of it based on the sparse documentation of what it should be doing than try and organize it.
The reason these projects get passed to me is because he's too busy to maintain them all...well maybe if you took the time to sort the poo poo out in the first place you wouldn't be months deep in help requests for them!
We're a pretty small company with only 4 active developers so things like code review don't even come into question.

This is my job except there's only two of us. We're maintaining an app that streams 200mbit+ 24/7 into a huge mapreduce cluster as the backend. Our oldest commit goes back to like 2006. I do not get paid enough for this.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
The worst developer is always:

you - 6months

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
I can't imagine ever working more than 40 hours. I've been doing a 60 hour deathmarch this month and I'm interviewing at other companies as a result.

Anyone working more than 40 hours is literally lowering their market value by cutting their own hourly rate. It's nonsense.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Gounads posted:

Depends on the environment. When I had a corporate job, it was 40 hour. Lately, in startup environment, I've been doing more than 40 hours. October 18th I switch back to sweet sweet hourly contracting.

Any situation where you're taking a percentage of company ownership is going to be different than a normal job though.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
The issue is that this industry attracts super-spergs like flies, so you get people that are truly passionate about technology working insane hours because it's a source of recreation for them. They get to build a Tower of Babel that is woven from their sheer autism using all these exotic technologies and weird/unique methods, when in reality they're over-engineering EVERYTHING, and their opinionated attitudes poison the well for everyone else that isn't full-blown autistic. It's maddening, and it has to be the worst part of working in this industry.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Skandranon posted:

Unless, of course, you embrace it. Give in.

You know I could, but it's always some poo poo loving project like a web application that handles construction bids or some equally boring topic.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
The worst thing on my employment contracts is that I'm contractually obligated for a year after I leave to notify my company where I'm working for the express written purpose of allowing them to contact my new company and tell them about the non-compete I signed.

All my coworkers just signed it. I made them write me a severance and include a bunch of extra concessions. I also made them strike binding arbitration out so if they feel like loving around with my severance I get to take them to big boy court.

The non-compete is 4 loving years. Fortunately I made them carve it down to just the industry they're in (and I have zero interest in working in this industry again probably ever).

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta
What do you guys think about "coding projects" in order to secure a job? I've done them once or twice in the past and ended up hating the actual job once I got hired and kind of swore off doing them again. I'm not happy at my current job so I've been interviewing. I've already done two levels of interviews with this potential company and they want me to do a coding challenge that is suspiciously complete. They want me to build an app:

- That allows user registration
- Users can post
- Users can comment on other's posts
- Users can edit content
- Users can download an export of all their content

This is all pretty straightforward stuff, but to do it right involves basically building a complete app and then handing it over. I have no problem with stuff like Fizzbuzz, but this seems like too much. I either half-rear end it and make myself look bad, or I spend 2-3 days building it right which does not seem like a good use of my time. I get paid for this kind of thing after all. Plus the requirements almost give me the suspicion that they could be using my work for commercial use after I hand it over.

I liked the company, but this seems like a bit much. I asked if doing the project was contingent on an offer and the response was basically "do it and we'll let you talk to the CEO about it." I'd be a whole lot more confident doing the work if we had solid terms worked out but they're unwilling to do that.

I'm leaning towards telling them to gently caress off. I have other prospects and they already had the chance to quiz me in the technical interview. I even sent over code samples for them to review. But maybe I should just do it? I dunno. My gut tells me I shouldn't but maybe I'm just being dumb and should get over it and throw the app together.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Gounads posted:

Agree, that's not reasonable. 8 hours would be about my limit for the entire interview process.

Some places (was it github?) do things like "come work for us for a day" as part of the interview, but they pay you for it.

I think 8 hours is totally fine. And this is an agency so they could easily come up with paid work that wouldn't necessitate giving me the keys to their kingdom to accomplish, either on-site or freelance, if they wanted to see my work.

I ended up telling them to take a hike and got a response back that they were super disappointed and really liked me but they've had tons of people do this challenge. Either they're bullshitting or their entire development team is a bunch of loving marks, so gently caress em either way.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Munkeymon posted:

It's not if they're trying to filter out people who don't already know whatever framework they have in mind.

They use cakephp lol

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply