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Other M just made Samus so much worse. Besides the weakening of the character, making her stupid by retconning it in between Super and Fusion. The crazy Umbrella space lab being nearly a carbon copy of the bottle ship. She doesn't bat an eye about Nightmare being stuck in the freezer, because the first one was such a bastion of peace. Doesn't connect the dots about the Metroids. I really wish that beyond the one Easter Egg once you get the Gravity Suit wasn't the only thing you could do, and sequence break the gently caress out of Fusion and yell "gently caress you Ghost AI Dad" 
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Dec 18, 2015 03:56
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Speaking of Bird-People magic, the Chozo are one of my favorite things about this series. Mysterious Alien Bird People that raised the protagonist and provided her with the tools to avenge her family/colony, which the Space Pirates wiped out, on the one hand. On the other hand, they're an extra-dimensional ascended race that know in at least broad strokes if not specifics everything that is going to happen, and took Samus in because she needed what they had to give her in order for her to do the things that she ends up doing, and they are playing out their parts. That's why we see references to the Hunter in these ruins that clearly pre-date Samus' contact with the Chozo, and why upgrades to her power suit can be found everywhere she just happens to be; they knew she was going to be there and that she would need them, centuries before her birth. And yet with some very specific exceptions (in this particular game, in fact), they never actually show up. With regards to Fusion and Other M, I maintain that Fusion is, in spite of the sour taste Other M has left on it retroactively, the second best of the side-scrolling Metroids (Zero Mission holds the top spot as far as I'm concerned). I think that's partly due to the setting; it's a horror game, which was a first for the series. Samus wakes up on a failing space station, the crew of which is dead. You get a little body horror from Samus having been physically altered, first by the X-Parasite and then by the infusion of Metroid DNA, making her into something a little bit closer to her long running enemy. She had to be surgically cut out of the outer layers of her suit, and it's not clear that she can ever come out of it again. And I'll never forget the first time the SA-X Kool-Aid manned her way through a wall moments after you take the elevator in the room; that moment of "Hey, that looks exactly like the Gravity Suit Samus. But we just left the room. Oh. Oh god. Is that a clone? Are we the clone? Is that the twist? Oh god what is going on here!?". I will grant that, all the poo poo with Adam, when the game first came out, was a little annoying, but the game play was fun and he wasn't completely terrible, so it was easy to give it a pass. Now all you see, going back, is "Goddamit Adam you prick, you're doing that loving Authorization poo poo all over again gently caress YOU SAKAMOTO". I hope you do end up doing Prime 2 and 3, I never got to finish 3 before my Wii decided it just didn't want to work any more.
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Dec 18, 2015 04:11
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RickVoid posted:On the other hand, they're an extra-dimensional ascended race that know in at least broad strokes if not specifics everything that is going to happen, and took Samus in because she needed what they had to give her in order for her to do the things that she ends up doing, and they are playing out their parts. All of the Chozo lore in Prime 1 was rewritten for every subsequent re-release of the game (the US Player's Choice, EU, JP, and Wii versions). Most of the metaphysical mysticism is removed; the Chozo still have visions, but they don't just evolve into extradimensional energy beings or whatever. The fate of the Chozo that raised Samus is only ever explored in manga (supposedly, they were slaughtered when the space pirates took over Zebes), but those on Tallon IV died trying to contain the corruption spreading from the impact crater.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:58
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You mixed up some other indie horror game with Fusion, there's no "Waking up in an abandoned hospital/lab" or "Am I a clone or the original" plot. The Galactic Fed. are a bit more competent than the Space Pirates when it comes to THE SCIENCE, so they sent infected stuff to the Bio Space Lab. Things went to hell, and they called Samus to fix it. Also you might be spoiling later Chozo lore, I dont recall Hatchling stuff appearing this early in the game or in the videos.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:22
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PhazonLink posted:You mixed up some other indie horror game with Fusion, there's no "Waking up in an abandoned hospital/lab" or "Am I a clone or the original" plot. I think he's talking about his thoughts when he got to that part. And you do go investigating and finding X parasite zombie scientists too though.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:45
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To be fair I was pretty loving tired when I wrote that. Also I didn't know they had redone the Chozo lore in later releases, so that's interesting.
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Dec 18, 2015 17:34
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So normally the next episode would go up tomorrow but we actually haven't been able to record in the last few weeks. I've decided I'm going to delay the episode until monday or tuesday so that when we record this weekend I won't be completely out of a backlog and have to do a slapdash edit and upload in time for tuesday. Sorry for the small delay. We're hoping to get three or four more episodes recorded this weekend. We now return you to your "gently caress Other M" chat.
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Dec 19, 2015 00:46
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My favorite part of Fusion is the times when you fight the SA-X. It shoots you with the Freeze Beam and then pops a super missile your way. The same way Samus/the player deals with Metroids in super and zero mission. It just feels so right. I was going to complain abouy Fusion's linearity but if it was wide open in classic metroidvania style it would actually take away from its horror stylings. It has actually got impeccable pacing.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:12
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I liked Fusion even when it came out, which was seen as a bit of a controversial opinion, because people had this idea that Metroid games were all about certain things that it did not follow, but that Metroid Prime allowed, somewhat. I feel happier knowing it is no longer considered the dark horse in the series thanks to Other M ruining the franchise utterly, but I don't like that Other M still drags it down by using elements from Fusion in it self. It uses them wrong, but that doesn't always work as an argument everywhere.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:42
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Mordaedil posted:I liked Fusion even when it came out, which was seen as a bit of a controversial opinion, because people had this idea that Metroid games were all about certain things that it did not follow, but that Metroid Prime allowed, somewhat. Yeah, Other M is clearly what Sakamoto wanted to make when he made Fusion, which makes it difficult to be a fan of it. Really, it's another good example of how it's important not to let the director and his "vision" run roughshod over making an actually good game/movie/etc. See also the Star Wars prequels.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:54
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FPzero posted:We now return you to your "gently caress Other M" chat. Eah, uck that other mucker
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Dec 19, 2015 01:56
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Speaking of Fusion. Can you get the Fusion Suit the way you're playing the game?RickVoid posted:Yeah, Other M is clearly what Sakamoto wanted to make when he made Fusion, which makes it difficult to be a fan of it. Really, it's another good example of how it's important not to let the director and his "vision" run roughshod over making an actually good game/movie/etc. See also the Star Wars prequels. I think it's okay to blame a director for cribbing from himself. Fusion was a competently made game, and he reused some of it's better bits in a worse game, that's not a mark against Fusion, it's a mark against him specifically.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:20
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^^^ I don't think I can unless Dolphin has GBA/GCN connectivity somehow. It's too bad I would like it for the sequence break run. vvv I might have to look into that. FPzero fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 02:47
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FPzero posted:^^^ I don't think I can unless Dolphin has GBA/GCN connectivity somehow. It's too bad I would like it for the sequence break run. I think there are Gameshark codes to enable it, if I'm not mistaken.
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Dec 19, 2015 02:49
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There's an action replay code out for it that people say works (google for Connection Bonuses).
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Dec 19, 2015 03:09
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Fusion, like all games, would be made better by having the ability to skip cutscenes.
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Dec 19, 2015 03:23
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I have a rather unique point of view, as Fusion was my first Metroid-vania. I would have never made it through and really discovered the fun in these types of games without having the really tight guided tour for the first couple hours of Fusion, because I get lost really easily in games and wouldn't have realized that getting lost is perfectly fine instead of a forced restart. The guidepost/story dump briefing rooms were a little heavy handed, but worked pretty well to make a compelling world out of this weird, disjointed botanical space garden. The upgrades all felt significant enough that the first time you actually run face to face into the SA-X, you feel cocky enough to fight it, because this computer guy is just underestimating your po*GAME OVER* At that point I was going to finish the game, that thing was going down. Later on, after beating the game and shoving gratuitous amounts of action replay codes at it, I was disappointed to find out the SA-X was unkillable in those encounters. I always sorta hoped you could actually kill it, even it it just ran off in X form. pointlessone fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 07:49
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I've never played Other M so I won't talk about that, but while I like the general idea of the Metroid series, I find it really annoying to feel I'm stuck in a huge maze with no idea where to go, just wandering around aimlessly. That's why I like some kind of guidance and linearity in my games, and I think Fusion does that rather well.
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Dec 19, 2015 10:49
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All the Metroids do this really well in other ways, usually by feeding you upgrades at timely intervals, so you essentially clear natural barriers by naturally progressing through the game, as you run into dead-ends until you get the required upgrades. And you even get rewarded for going back with your new stuff and using them in old areas. There's a couple of places I think could be done better (power bomb tunnel in Super Metroid, I'm looking at you) but with Fusion taking place on a space station, I can recognize they couldn't always do this right, especially with a hub area that could take you to two-three new areas at any time.
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Dec 19, 2015 11:22
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I just wish they'd make a game that takes place after Fusion.
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Dec 19, 2015 15:53
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Carbon dioxide posted:I've never played Other M so I won't talk about that, but while I like the general idea of the Metroid series, I find it really annoying to feel I'm stuck in a huge maze with no idea where to go, just wandering around aimlessly. That's why I like some kind of guidance and linearity in my games, and I think Fusion does that rather well. Not "wandering aimlessly", but "exploring"! It's the power of positive thinking.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:11
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pointlessone posted:Later on, after beating the game and shoving gratuitous amounts of action replay codes at it, I was disappointed to find out the SA-X was unkillable in those encounters. I always sorta hoped you could actually kill it, even it it just ran off in X form. I don't really think they had a good enough battle system to make fighting the SA-X constantly worthwhile. Even when you do fight it, with each of you equipped with Wave Beams that go through walls, it just turns into a damage race. The sad thing is, I don't think the GBA really had enough processing power to make the SA-X anything other than scripted encounters. A Metroid game with a good stealth element would be pretty cool, where you'd need avoid map-wandering all-powerful enemies, but Fusion didn't really want to design for that despite the the game itself offering the suggestion. The closest game on the GBA I think which tried something like that was Kirby and the Amazing Mirror with how their friendly AI players would wander the Metroid-style world map. The problem is, all the other Kirbies weren't ever simulated inside the game itself. It would just move their position on the map, and whenever you entered a room with another Kirby inside, the game would just randomly place that Kirby somewhere nearby. It did give the appearance of having that Kirby do things by how they cycled through copy abilities, but even those were just randomly selected. When you actually do have multiplayer with each Kirby controlled by a different person, the game begins to lag like crazy. They couldn't even have it where speedrunners could split into groups in order to clear the game in a quarter of the time because with all the lag it ended up being faster to only use three. It was the only GBA game I've ever seen which lagged at all. So when Adam says there was no fewer than 10 SA-X on board? He was lying because the GBA doesn't have enough memory for even two.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:36
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Morroque posted:So when Adam says there was no fewer than 10 SA-X on board? He was lying because the GBA doesn't have enough memory for even two.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:45
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But also 10 fully powered Samuses is pretty drat horrifying. Especially when you add in the fact that their only instincts are self preservation and reproduction. Fusion had a lot of potential to be horror based, but in the end the only encounters with SA-X that stick out in my mind are the final one, and the one in Sector 2 after fighting the spider boss.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:22
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Morroque posted:So when Adam says there was no fewer than 10 SA-X on board? He was lying because the GBA doesn't have enough memory for even two. Actually, the GBA wouldn't have any more trouble putting 10 SA-X against you than it'd have a problem throwing grunt enemies against you 10 times.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:39
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Yup. AI, especially simple behaviours as seen in 2d games, is cheap to process. Displaying all of them, not so much.
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Dec 20, 2015 04:11
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My guess is that there wouldn't be enough available sprite memory to display multiple SA-Xs at once. If you remember, there are never any other enemies in rooms with the SA-X, probably because the game needs all available sprite memory to process its complex animations. Then again, I know of a guy making a new editor for Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission romhacking. Maybe he can try and throw 10 SA-Xs in a room and see what happens. 
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Dec 20, 2015 04:52
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 rip mp lp
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Dec 22, 2015 18:20
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Just imagine the Alien is SA-X and then go play Alien: Isolation. In fact, if anyone were so inclined they could probably just replace the model with the models that were ripped from Prime 3 and still get a halfway decent run out of it.
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Dec 22, 2015 18:23
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Ah, you guys were talking about Crocomire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONxKm8uApSc A pretty hosed up death from a Nintendo game of all things
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Dec 22, 2015 19:13
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The space jump boots are amazing and the best upgrade in the game, if only because of how much more tolerable the air jump makes first person platforming. That and bouning around with rocket boots at all times is godawful fun.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:38
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The funny thing about that tube hallway made of Bendezium is that it's just one of many references to a setpiece back in Super Metroid. See, in that game you could get access to Maridia either by entering from the top (which was probably the best way considering that you also got an upgrade that mattered a lot for that zone) or from the bottom. But to enter from the bottom, you had to enter a similar tube hallway and blow it up from the inside with a different upgrade that we don't have yet. Since then, the Metroid games (Prime 1/2 and Fusion at least, not sure about Prime 3 or Hunters, doubtful about Other M considering how late you got that loving upgrade  ) have found a way to shoehorn in a similar setpiece as part of one of the older callbacks in video game history.Also, another way to take out those turrets with relative impunity (especially if you don't have a version with Missile Cancelling) is to stunlock them with half-charged shots. (You can figure out your charge level by watching the meter on the side of the targeting reticle.)
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Dec 22, 2015 20:22
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NGDBSS posted:The funny thing about that tube hallway made of Bendezium is that it's just one of many references to a setpiece back in Super Metroid. See, in that game you could get access to Maridia either by entering from the top (which was probably the best way considering that you also got an upgrade that mattered a lot for that zone) or from the bottom. But to enter from the bottom, you had to enter a similar tube hallway and blow it up from the inside with a different upgrade that we don't have yet. Since then, the Metroid games (Prime 1/2 and Fusion at least, not sure about Prime 3 or Hunters, doubtful about Other M considering how late you got that loving upgrade I wouldn't say it's the best way since short of a small bug, you can't get where you need to coming in from the top. That tube has to be destroyed at one point or another.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:29
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I wouldn't say it's the best way since short of a small bug, you can't get where you need to coming in from the top. That tube has to be destroyed at one point or another. (It's been a while since I last played Super Metroid, though I'm confident I could still get everything and beat it within a few hours if I tried.)
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Dec 22, 2015 20:49
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Maridia makes full use of metal doors (pre-Draygon) and one strategically placed green gate. As far as I know, it's impossible to get to Draygon coming from the top without using the green gate bug (glitch? exploit?).
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Dec 22, 2015 20:55
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This game actually looks a lot clearer in LP than the remake does on my WiiU. (It might be my super old TV's fault, though.) Are you playing on an actual GameCube or Dolphin? I know at least PSX games can look much better emulated than on an actual console.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:40
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I'm emulating it on Dolphin but funnily enough all I've done is scale the window to 720p. I haven't played with any antialiasing settings or increased the internal resolution. I've noticed that the game is a lot blurrier on Wii too and I don't think the TV has anything to do with it because I play on a newer PC monitor and it still looks blurry.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:29
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FPzero posted:I'm emulating it on Dolphin but funnily enough all I've done is scale the window to 720p. I haven't played with any antialiasing settings or increased the internal resolution. I've noticed that the game is a lot blurrier on Wii too and I don't think the TV has anything to do with it because I play on a newer PC monitor and it still looks blurry. Could it be constant motion blur from the gun not being as steady due to wiimote control and moving constantly? I know the wii version picked up Prime 3s control scheme.
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Dec 23, 2015 03:12
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FoolyCharged posted:Could it be constant motion blur from the gun not being as steady due to wiimote control and moving constantly? I know the wii version picked up Prime 3s control scheme. Somehow, I thought he meant that he was playing the Gamecube version on a Wii. Now he's going to have to clarify. That being said, even just scaling the emulator window up to 720 is going to make the game look sharper--but the important thing here is playing it windowed. The output resolution of Metroid Prime is 640x480, which is going to look like crap when blown up to fit fullscreen on a modern LCD display no matter which way you slice it. Games made for resolutions that low actually still look best on an old SDTV. I keep a couple of them around for hooking up my retro consoles.
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Dec 23, 2015 04:15
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KieranWalker posted:Somehow, I thought he meant that he was playing the Gamecube version on a Wii. Now he's going to have to clarify. FP has stated previously that he's playing the original release gamecube version. That's pretty much a requirement if you plan on doing any sequence breaking.
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Dec 23, 2015 04:56
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