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A little backstory: due to crippling depression combined with the recession, my career completely disintegrated in 2009/2010. Since then I have had to move back in with my parents and have spent the last 5 years mostly out of work, with 1 1/2 years spent working at Walmart and another 2 years spent on a failed attempt to go back to school for a degree. The return to school was unfortunately ruined again by my depression, and now I have basically nothing to show for it except lots of student loan debt. Now I am trying once again to get back into the workforce, but having been out of work for so much time in the last 6 years, and having lost contact with everyone I knew professionally due to my tendency to isolate, I have very little going for me, so I am applying mostly to minimum wage jobs. The application process to get into these jobs feels utterly ridiculous. I am applying for temporary, part time, minimum wage jobs, and the applications tend to take 1 1/2 to 2 hours each to submit, and they require me to upload a resume and cover letter, then re-input all the information from my resume, often along with additional information like requiring the names of my supervisors at my previous jobs, many of which I cant remember the names of. They also almost always require me to provide 3 professional references, of which I have none. I have also had one of these jobs require me to submit a Letter of Introduction, which I had no idea how to procure since I didn't know anyone who worked there. After taking over an hour to do this, I often then have to complete an online assessment presenting me with ~50-100 questions and I have to mark my responses. And after I do all of that, I never hear from the companies in question. How the loving poo poo do people actually find jobs, and how am I supposed to be able to put my life back together when the most menial of work has such ridiculous hurdles placed in front of it?
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Dec 3, 2015 20:18
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 01:39 |
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work ethic and ability to put up with bullshit are pretty much the only "skills" necessary/desirable for most min wage work so designing an application process that selects for those qualities makes sense from the employer's perspective.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:40
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Small businesses generally have a simpler application process. Don't just apply to McDonalds and Domino's. Bill's Burger Shack and Pizzeria Localino also need workers, and they hire more on a basis of "Do we need a guy right now?"
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Dec 3, 2015 22:12
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Those web forms don't require any effort on the employers end so they just ask for everything imaginable. (I'd hazard a guess that the McDonalds corporation doesn't care about wasting their employees/prospective employees time.) You can probably just leave anything you don't have blank. The trick to getting a minimum wage job is to show up at independent restaurants and ask if they need someone. Just dress presentably, show up during a non busy time and ask if they need dishwashers/kitchen help. If you get a good place you can actually make pretty good money if you move up to being a waiter. Its been a while since Ive had to get a job like that but I doubt anythings changed. Good luck.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:14
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Most minimum wage jobs (dollar store, walmart, etc) literally have a computer with a chair that you can sit down and fill out an application at. They do not take anywhere close to an hour to complete. Professional references? Put family members with different last names. Or a friend. Or make up a name. You know - stuff that 16 year olds do. How is any of this a "hurdle"? If that's considered a hurdle, wait until you have to actually wake up and get to the job on time.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:59
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Mistikman posted:A little backstory: due to crippling depression combined with the recession, my career completely disintegrated in 2009/2010. Since then I have had to move back in with my parents and have spent the last 5 years mostly out of work, with 1 1/2 years spent working at Walmart and another 2 years spent on a failed attempt to go back to school for a degree. The return to school was unfortunately ruined again by my depression, and now I have basically nothing to show for it except lots of student loan debt. every job is like this now. they all use some resume processing middleware that was probably user experience tested by two 11 year olds in Bangalore. the other night I couldn't continue on an application because the minimum education field was a drop down list of universities -- none of them was the school I went to and it wouldn't let me proceed to the next page without picking one of them. there was no "other" or "input your own" or whatever. your depression's about to get a lot worse 
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Dec 5, 2015 01:25
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Whistling rear end in a top hat posted:every job is like this now. they all use some resume processing middleware that was probably user experience tested by two 11 year olds in Bangalore. the other night I couldn't continue on an application because the minimum education field was a drop down list of universities -- none of them was the school I went to and it wouldn't let me proceed to the next page without picking one of them. there was no "other" or "input your own" or whatever. your depression's about to get a lot worse Why didn't you just pick one and continue? It's not like a job like that is going to ask for a transcript and if it ever comes up you can just explain it. As long as you didn't go to community college and pick Harvard or something it's not like it looks like you're trying to inflate your credentials.
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Dec 5, 2015 16:41
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When I was job searching I had a much, much higher response rate when I started applying only to job postings that had an email address to submit applications to since I knew an actual human had to read it. Try responding to Craigslist ads, you'll probably have better luck. Even if they point you to an online portal you still have a contact at the company to ask for updates. My company just switched to an application system that requires people to record themselves responding to a few screening questions. The HR people are all super excited about it while the newer people who still have fresh memories of the bullshit you have to go through to apply for jobs are all universally "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!" The hiring manager says it's a ton easier to filter out people who are just shotgunning resumes vs actually want the job that way but it's still terrible for job applicants.
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Dec 5, 2015 17:43
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RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:Why didn't you just pick one and continue? It's not like a job like that is going to ask for a transcript and if it ever comes up you can just explain it. As long as you didn't go to community college and pick Harvard or something it's not like it looks like you're trying to inflate your credentials. because it's absurd?? what kind of hosed up Kafka-esque society do we live in where I *have to* lie to proceed on a job application
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Dec 5, 2015 22:06
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Whistling rear end in a top hat posted:because it's absurd?? what kind of hosed up Kafka-esque society do we live in where I *have to* lie to proceed on a job application You're not lying, you're being as truthful as the webform allows you to be. Pick the university that's closest to yours and when they ask you about it say "your application didn't have my university on it, it's actually $UNIVERSITY" and then answer their question in the same breath. You've got to be smarter than the HR drones you're trying to operate. Edit: and minimum wage jobs are so hard to apply for because there's no real penalty for the position going unfilled. It's not like they need 50,000 machinists tomorrow to make bombers to fight Hitler. When that was the case anyone with a pulse could show up and be working the same day. ductonius fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 6, 2015 |
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Dec 5, 2015 23:57
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so what you're saying is we need another hitler
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Dec 6, 2015 21:56
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:My company just switched to an application system that requires people to record themselves responding to a few screening questions. The HR people are all super excited about it while the newer people who still have fresh memories of the bullshit you have to go through to apply for jobs are all universally "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!" The hiring manager says it's a ton easier to filter out people who are just shotgunning resumes vs actually want the job that way but it's still terrible for job applicants. The funny thing is literally nobody actually wants that job, everyone who's applying at your company is probably shotgunning because they're just looking for a place that will actually hire and pay them. I know, I remember job searching in the mid-late 2000s, it was a loving hellscape where you unironically start considering MLM as a drat possibility just because you can actually break into it unlike most major chains who never get back to you because there's 5,000 people applying for every 1 opening. Hope that poo poo doesn't spread further out.
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Dec 6, 2015 22:05
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Shima Honnou posted:The funny thing is literally nobody actually wants that job, everyone who's applying at your company is probably shotgunning because they're just looking for a place that will actually hire and pay them. I know, I remember job searching in the mid-late 2000s, it was a loving hellscape where you unironically start considering MLM as a drat possibility just because you can actually break into it unlike most major chains who never get back to you because there's 5,000 people applying for every 1 opening. Hope that poo poo doesn't spread further out. This is for an entry level data entry position so I can guarantee there are about 5 billion applicants, most of which are shotgunning. But HR lives in a fantasy world where people only apply to jobs they really really want.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:24
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Pekinduck posted:The trick to getting a minimum wage job is to show up at independent restaurants and ask if they need someone. Just dress presentably, show up during a non busy time and ask if they need dishwashers/kitchen help. If you get a good place you can actually make pretty good money if you move up to being a waiter. Its been a while since Ive had to get a job like that but I doubt anythings changed. Good luck. This is how my business hires and how most of my friends got hired. Keep an eye out for hiring signs, but try small business that don't have hiring signs too. This also works for retail. As somebody who's been on the other end of the job ad, you don't have great odds applying to online postings that don't have extraneous bullshit filters designed to cut down on the number of applicants. Any open ad (eg. Craigslist) for a job with no special qualifications required will get hundreds of resumes. You may be somebody employers would be delighted to have working for them, but you're probably not the best out of hundreds. Meanwhile, a lot of small businesses just skip posting online because you get enough good applicants from walk-ins and word of mouth, and you don't need to deal with interacting with hundreds of Craigslist users.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:11
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My husband has applied to a half dozen min wage jobs over the past few years (self storage, construction, music studio work), and has gotten almost all of them despite having no experience or qualifications. The key is getting in to meet the person who is doing the hiring. Then smile, nod, and listen to them talk. You will not get anywhere mass emailing resumes to places. You have to show up and show them that you're not a dumbshit and can handle human interaction. The last thing he applied to had an online form to fill out OR you could go in for a studio tour with the guy who was hiring. He got a job offer at the end of the tour. SHOW UP. Saeku posted:Meanwhile, a lot of small businesses just skip posting online because you get enough good applicants from walk-ins and word of mouth, and you don't need to deal with interacting with hundreds of Craigslist users.
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Dec 7, 2015 06:42
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moana posted:My husband has applied to a half dozen min wage jobs over the past few years (self storage, construction, music studio work), and has gotten almost all of them despite having no experience or qualifications. The key is getting in to meet the person who is doing the hiring. Then smile, nod, and listen to them talk. You will not get anywhere mass emailing resumes to places. You have to show up and show them that you're not a dumbshit and can handle human interaction. The last thing he applied to had an online form to fill out OR you could go in for a studio tour with the guy who was hiring. He got a job offer at the end of the tour. SHOW UP. That works well in smaller places but once you hit mass retail my experience has been they'll turn you away if you try to meet a manager before being called in for an interview directly.
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Dec 7, 2015 07:26
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Shima Honnou posted:That works well in smaller places but once you hit mass retail my experience has been they'll turn you away if you try to meet a manager before being called in for an interview directly. You're not missing out if you don't work for a big chain. I know. got any sevens fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 10:24
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effectual posted:You're not missing out if you don't work for a big chain.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:51
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Shima Honnou posted:That works well in smaller places but once you hit mass retail my experience has been they'll turn you away if you try to meet a manager before being called in for an interview directly. I used to be a service desk monkey at a big box retail store. Part of my job was to turn away idiots who came in with just a resume and a "Hey, can I speak to your hiring manager?" You do that, you'll get the standard "put in your app on the computer, don't call us we'll call you" bs. If you actually want to get an on the spot interview at one of these stores? Here's what you do: -First, put in the goddamn application on the goddamn computer. There's no way to hire you without one, it's a HR thing. The managers have to have one to put you through, it doesn't matter if you're retail jesus you need to sit down and go through an hour of computerized testing that has blatantly correct answers. -Next, come in with your resume, and know what department you want to work in. I cannot emphasize this enough. You want to talk to a manager, and you want to talk to that specific manager. If they're not there that day, come back later. Each department generally does it's own hiring, if you ask for a job from a Service team lead expect to be a cashier. And for the love of god, don't ask for the 'hiring manager'. Just ask to speak with the manager, and be nice about it. Service drones gossip like crazy, and you don't want to be 'that one rear end in a top hat who thinks he can just waltz in and get a job'. -You got the manager's attention? Good, now sell yourself like you're the next hot thing. And while you don't want to come in wearing ratty sweats, you don't want to dress like you're going to a funeral either. Business cloths - slacks, button down shirt, maybe a tie if that's your thing. This is retail, if you have really nice cloths what are you doing coming in and interviewing for a minimum wage job anyways? Of course, this all requires that there's a position that needs to be filled. But big box retail sucks, people quit or get fired all the time. Ayana fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 19:23
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My family owns a restaurant, and when we're hiring, we will frequently hire anyone who walks in the door for many of the positions. Pizza delivery driver, for example. Do you have a car and a driver's license, and the ability to answer simple questions like "Do you have a car and a driver's license"? Congratulations, you're our new delivery driver. There may be some lengthy hiring process at a nationwide chain, but that's not the case at small independently owned businesses. As long as you come across like you're not too much of a fuckup, you're hired.
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Dec 27, 2015 10:50
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I was shocked the other day when looking at the application stats for some of the low level/entry level positions we were hirng for. Hundreds of applicants for each spot. It gets a lot easier once you start to get specialised, right now i consider it really competative if like 10 people apply for a position I go for.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:33
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Orange Sunshine posted:My family owns a restaurant, and when we're hiring, we will frequently hire anyone who walks in the door for many of the positions. Pizza delivery driver, for example. Do you have a car and a driver's license, and the ability to answer simple questions like "Do you have a car and a driver's license"? Congratulations, you're our new delivery driver. Of course, most of the time you won't be hiring, which can be discouraging to the unemployed - they interpret "Sorry, we aren't hiring now." as "Get out of my sight, you defective human! Never return!" In fact, returning every few months (not so often to be annoying) can bear fruit.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:29
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:I was shocked the other day when looking at the application stats for some of the low level/entry level positions we were hirng for. Hundreds of applicants for each spot. It gets a lot easier once you start to get specialised, right now i consider it really competative if like 10 people apply for a position I go for. This doesn't necessarily mean that the job seeker:job opening ratio is different than historically, it just looks that way now.
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Dec 28, 2015 06:21
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Why would you work for minimum wage?
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Dec 29, 2015 00:19
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No other options. Worthless degree. Field with no openings because everyone who gets into it hangs on for grim death. Fired from or left a better job in a field with no openings. No degree at all because you can't afford college either monetarily or mentally to get a degree that isn't worthless. Had the luck to be born or raised in an area with no good work and poo poo paying work kinda makes it hard to move or get started somewhere where there is good paying work. Did dumb poo poo when you were younger (Probably because your parents met one or more of the above), caught a felony, options pretty much withered from there. There's over 7 billion people out there and pretty much everything costs money and almost everyone needs either a job or someone who makes enough to support them. There's always going to be a vast, vast field of low to minimum paying jobs to support that population, and a shitload of basically hopeless people that have to fill it either willingly or not.
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Dec 29, 2015 10:33
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Kitchen work, OP. I have yet to see a restaurant that had more than a 2-3 page app, and it doesn't matter how bad you loving isolate yourself. So long as your can keep your mood up enough to keep making it into work, you'll have a dish pit job as long as you want it
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Dec 29, 2015 16:12
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You should really focus on getting your depression treated. Are you on medication for it? Applying for jobs will seem much easier if your depression is under control.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:49
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It's really stupid. I went through a single interview and started at a bank making decent money right out of college. A couple years later I decide it would be fun to work at a game store part time. I applied to Electronic Boutique and the hoops they made me jump through was insane. It took me 4 interviews, a drug test, and a written assessment to get the minimum wage job, which consisted of shooting the poo poo about games and ringing people up on an archaic cash register. I don't know how people go through that poo poo multiple times for multiple jobs. I heard horror stories of lost paperwork, etc.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:58
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Do telemarketing-- it requires no degree or any real skill and pays decently. I have an Associate degree in Creative Writing and another Associate in Music Production, both from the local community college, so I was in a similar spot. Now I work in downtown Austin making SDR cold calls for 35K plus 10% commission. Plenty of time off too, so I can keep working on my music. Seconding the bit about lying-- make up references, job experience, whatever. I used to work at a pizza place with the manager and two other employees, I was technically an "assistant manager" despite having none of those duties, but on my resume I show 2 years of management and training. Stretch whatever you have to make you look like a perfect fit for a position.
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Jan 6, 2016 17:50
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Doghouse posted:You should really focus on getting your depression treated. Are you on medication for it? Applying for jobs will seem much easier if your depression is under control. I have been treating my depression constantly (almost, when I get low enough I stop taking medication or going to therapy) for the last 5 years. My depression is incredibly treatment resistant though. I have tried roughly 20 different medications, lots of therapy, and even electro convulsive therapy. Very little has even made a dent. On a positive note despite the ridiculous frustration I was feeling that led to me starting this thread, I actually got contacted back for one of the non-minimum wage jobs I applied to. I just started training for a Tier 2 tech support position for a small Internet/Phone/Cable provider. I am only 2 days in, but I am kind of optimistic so far. The second I was able to stop applying for jobs I felt a large metaphorical weight lift off my shoulders. The trick now will be keeping my depression at bay so I don't totally gently caress this job up.
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Jan 13, 2016 07:16
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Mistikman posted:I have been treating my depression constantly (almost, when I get low enough I stop taking medication or going to therapy) for the last 5 years. My depression is incredibly treatment resistant though. I have tried roughly 20 different medications, lots of therapy, and even electro convulsive therapy. Very little has even made a dent. Wow. Good for you for addressing it, sorry nothing has worked, that's rough. And a big congrats on the job, sounds like something that could be much better than minimum wage and could have growth potential. Good luck.
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Jan 13, 2016 16:18
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Dangit Ronpaul posted:work ethic and ability to put up with bullshit are pretty much the only "skills" necessary/desirable for most min wage work so designing an application process that selects for those qualities makes sense from the employer's perspective. This type of application process is also good at weeding out non whites.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:23
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Mistikman posted:I have been treating my depression constantly (almost, when I get low enough I stop taking medication or going to therapy) for the last 5 years. My depression is incredibly treatment resistant though. I have tried roughly 20 different medications, lots of therapy, and even electro convulsive therapy. Very little has even made a dent. Congrats! The best part is once you're employed and have a good track record with your employer finding another job becomes way, way easier.
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Jan 16, 2016 20:44
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