|
You know something I noticed when I watched all of Batman the Animated Series? The second half is basically a long, tragic look at recidivism. Penguin in particular does his best to try and reform but just can't pull it off.
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
So basically, non-physically hosed up people like Riddler and Catwoman go to Blackgate and hosed up people that require special cells like Killer Croc and Freeze go to Arkham? I'm going by who would be a more interesting boss fight if you had to fight them, because like, Penguin's got nothing but mooks to throw at you but then again, so does Two-Face but his face isn't as messed up as his though. Dude's just a criminal and not one with an obsession over coins.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 14:21
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:You know something I noticed when I watched all of Batman the Animated Series? The second half is basically a long, tragic look at recidivism. Penguin in particular does his best to try and reform but just can't pull it off. I haven't seen any of this series in 20 years and remember basically nothing about it, could you give some specific examples?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 15:51
|
|
|
Mzbundifund posted:I haven't seen any of this series in 20 years and remember basically nothing about it, could you give some specific examples? It's been too long for me to give specifics, but the general formula for villain reappearances was: Villain is released from prison/Arkham -> tries for a while to turn his/her life around -> is triggered by some negative occurrence--often Batman himself, although he does try to give them space -> resumes supervillainy -> is stopped by Batman -> winds up back in prison/Arkham. Joker never tries to reform, of course, but even Harley Quinn tries to let go of being his sidekick for one episode. In Penguin's case, he tries to go straight and gets invited into the upper echelons of society by a charming young lady, but then he finds out that he's only there because of the novelty and he gets angry, attempts to get some revenge on the snobs, and then Batman shows up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
kalonZombie posted:Basically: Are you a sane person without super powers or extremely special needs? If yes, you go to Blackgate. At this point I think it's only Riddler, Catwoman, and Penguin who get sent there. Maybe Hugo Strange, too. I'm pretty sure Riddler should be at Arkham. Depending on the writer, he can be harmless, but he has a pathological need to leave clues and riddles; he even admitted so to Batman. Also, there are multiple signs that the Arkham series Riddler is kept at the asylum, one of which being a type of collectable we have not yet seen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 16:55
|
|
|
Emissary666 posted:I'm pretty sure Riddler should be at Arkham. Depending on the writer, he can be harmless, but he has a pathological need to leave clues and riddles; he even admitted so to Batman. Also, there are multiple signs that the Arkham series Riddler is kept at the asylum, one of which being a type of collectable we have not yet seen. It could be that, for all his boasting, he really is super smart. It's possible that regular jails couldn't hold him for long and thus he goes to Arkham where the guards do not loving play along with his poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 17:59
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:It's been too long for me to give specifics, but the general formula for villain reappearances was: Villain is released from prison/Arkham -> tries for a while to turn his/her life around -> is triggered by some negative occurrence--often Batman himself, although he does try to give them space -> resumes supervillainy -> is stopped by Batman -> winds up back in prison/Arkham. I think I vaguely remember this happening with Poison Ivy as well. And of course with Freeze in Batman Beyond (which was just a goddamned heartbreaking episode all around). I'm also recalling Two-Face episode where it happened as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 18:03
|
|
|
RickVoid posted:I think I vaguely remember this happening with Poison Ivy as well. And of course with Freeze in Batman Beyond (which was just a goddamned heartbreaking episode all around). I'm also recalling Two-Face episode where it happened as well. The poison ivy episode she was just faking being reformed. Her loving family was just a bunch of plant clones of her "husband" at various stages of aging. And yeah the Mr Freeze episode was heartrending. "You may feel some momentary discomfort".
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 18:10
|
|
|
kalonZombie posted:It could be that, for all his boasting, he really is super smart. It's possible that regular jails couldn't hold him for long and thus he goes to Arkham where the guards do not loving play along with his poo poo. A regular jail definitely could not hold the Riddler, but he is also in need of treatment; he literally has to make everything a puzzle, has to leave clues, and has a nervous breakdown if someone completely outsmarts him. He once tracked down some criminal who was intentionally leaving clues of their own to berate them for not doing it properly, even though they were just intended references to the guy's favorite director. The guy is legitimately insane. Also, Mr. Freeze is usually just heartbreaking in general. His entire motivation has always been to save his wife or get revenge on his former employer. However, if he ever saves his wife, he would probably immediately retire from his life of crime, so she will never be saved or, if she is, something new tragedy will force Victor back to a life of crime.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 21:01
|
|
|
There's been a couple of instances of Freeze's wife being taken out of the equation. In the Animated Series she actually gets cured off screen and then leaves him when she learns the horrible things he had to do to cure her. He went to go live in Greenland or something after that. In the comics I believe she died, because there's one instance of Batman fighting Freeze because he was doing some weird stuff to the weather and making it snow super hard, but the motivation behind that was she always loved white Christmases, so he wanted to give her one, and the last panel is of him kneeling in front of her grave. All in all Freeze is one of the better villains because, in any other circumstance, he wouldn't be a villain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 21:43
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:It's been too long for me to give specifics, but the general formula for villain reappearances was: Villain is released from prison/Arkham -> tries for a while to turn his/her life around -> is triggered by some negative occurrence--often Batman himself, although he does try to give them space -> resumes supervillainy -> is stopped by Batman -> winds up back in prison/Arkham. Oh interesting. I'd almost rather see a story about one of the random faceless goons who had his arm dislocated by Batman getting out of jail and trying to make a break from his old gang, rather than try to tell that story using the flamboyant supervillain types who were calling the criminal shots. kalonZombie posted:All in all Freeze is one of the better villains because, in any other circumstance, he wouldn't be a villain. While this is true, it's also true that in his circumstance, almost any other person wouldn't be a villain at all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 21:54
|
|
|
Mzbundifund posted:Oh interesting. I'd almost rather see a story about one of the random faceless goons who had his arm dislocated by Batman getting out of jail and trying to make a break from his old gang, rather than try to tell that story using the flamboyant supervillain types who were calling the criminal shots. Well, there's Melanie aka 10 from Batman Beyond. She was born into her literal crime family, the Royal Flush Gang, and served as their tech specialist. She grew tired of their itinerant lifestyle and inability to have a normal life, and was eventually caught by batman and turned into the cops. Afterwards she tried to live a normal life separate from her family, but found out that they were being held hostage by the Jokers, so she robbed a high stakes poker game and brought the money to the drop off point. There she was met by her family who had set up the whole thing as a re-initiation test. She was disgusted by them and left them to get their teeth beaten in by Batman. She does make good on her promise to find honest work, and bails out her Brother once he's similarly abandoned by their parents, and gets him a job at the diner she works at.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
Pied Piper from Flash is interesting as a Super villain that reformed that has stayed that way to this day. Mad Hatter is another villain that is actually in need of treatment. Given that the guy has no grasp on reality. I also remember a fun story with Riddler. He had hired some thugs and was planning a heist and was getting ready to send his Riddle out, however both Batman and the police were busy with another more major situation. So Riddler just kept stalling his goons because he refused to start until Batman could get his info. The thugs proceeded turned on him and just decided to go ahead with out him, were their heist went off with out a flaw. (They complimented that Riddler's plans were great and that he would be way more successful without his gimmick.) Riddler feeling down about his men turning on him hijacked a talk show using a suicide vest. Were he proceed to start speaking about his problems and life to everyone watching. Eventually he was captured and it was revealed that his suicide vest was a prop.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2015 22:58
|
|
|
Riddler's probably my favourite member of Batman's rogues gallery. He's a pretty fascinating character.Bobbin Threadbare posted:Joker never tries to reform, of course, but even Harley Quinn tries to let go of being his sidekick for one episode. Occasionally in the comics, Harley realises how bad Joker's treating her and makes an attempt to leave him, although usually not to quit being a supervillain. Of course, it never sticks. Normally during those periods she ends up with Ivy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
fractalairduct posted:Riddler's probably my favourite member of Batman's rogues gallery. He's a pretty fascinating character. Notably, Injustice universe Harley manages to make a clean break into Hero, but it takes the Joker killing literally tens of millions of people to do it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 03:10
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Notably, Injustice universe Harley manages to make a clean break into Hero, but it takes the Joker killing literally tens of millions of people to do it. That and Joker being killed by Superman, thus preventing any possibility of going back to him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
This being a comic book, she is presented with an exact duplicate of her Joker, and doesn't fall for his charms.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
Her arcade mode ending is pretty great too. She gets the other universes Joker and marries him, but he's a horrible monster at their wedding so she just shoots him in the head. It's great because he starts abusing her and she just decides gently caress no this isn't what I want.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 04:38
|
|
|
Does Batman's no killing policy stop him from doing things like gouging out eyes and breaking spines? What exactly is the limit of his "I'm better than you because there's one thing I won't do" policy?
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 05:30
|
|
|
White Coke posted:Does Batman's no killing policy stop him from doing things like gouging out eyes and breaking spines? What exactly is the limit of his "I'm better than you because there's one thing I won't do" policy? Apparently, dropping a dude through a ceiling into a room full of Joker Toxin doesn't count.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 05:39
|
|
|
Batman's been running for like decades now at this point right? Has he ever gone super pedantic over his 'I don't kill' rule and just like, taking everyone's brains and hooking them up in jars so they're still alive technically so it's fine? Or just putting them in comas forever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 06:49
|
|
|
Frank Miller's Batman is very insistent that he will not shoot you with a gun, but Frank Miller's batman is an rear end in a top hat in basically every other way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 07:02
|
|
|
kalonZombie posted:There's been a couple of instances of Freeze's wife being taken out of the equation. In the Animated Series she actually gets cured off screen and then leaves him when she learns the horrible things he had to do to cure her. He went to go live in Greenland or something after that. In the comics I believe she died, because there's one instance of Batman fighting Freeze because he was doing some weird stuff to the weather and making it snow super hard, but the motivation behind that was she always loved white Christmases, so he wanted to give her one, and the last panel is of him kneeling in front of her grave. I can't remember which comic it was, but probably the best/worst thing I ever read was somebody dumping Nora Freeze into a lazarus pit and she comes out hopping mad and with new fire powers and screams something like NORA IS GONE YOU FOOL I AM NOW LAZARA! complete with fire graphics for her name. I can't imagine it was ever mentioned again, but that was true for a while.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
fractalairduct posted:Riddler's probably my favourite member of Batman's rogues gallery. He's a pretty fascinating character. Worth mentioning that in Batman Beyond('s backstory, between BTAS and BB), Harley actually does manage to reform (after Tim Drake kills the Joker of course). Though, naturally, her granddaughters wind up being juvenile delinquents that McGinis winds up having to beat the snot out of a few times.
|
|
#
?
Dec 11, 2015 15:04
|
|
|
ParliamentOfDogs posted:I can't remember which comic it was, but probably the best/worst thing I ever read was somebody dumping Nora Freeze into a lazarus pit and she comes out hopping mad and with new fire powers and screams something like NORA IS GONE YOU FOOL I AM NOW LAZARA! complete with fire graphics for her name. I can't imagine it was ever mentioned again, but that was true for a while. Sort of like the time that Scarecrow could turn into the Scarebeast, I guess. For those not in the know, for one issue and one issue only, Scarecrow revealed he had the superpower of turning into a hulking monster capable of breathing his fear gas or some stupid poo poo like that. It only happened in one issue years ago and has been pretty much ignored ever since. Because it was loving stupid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2015 14:47
|
|
|
ParliamentOfDogs posted:I can't remember which comic it was, but probably the best/worst thing I ever read was somebody dumping Nora Freeze into a lazarus pit and she comes out hopping mad and with new fire powers and screams something like NORA IS GONE YOU FOOL I AM NOW LAZARA! complete with fire graphics for her name. I can't imagine it was ever mentioned again, but that was true for a while. The dumbest part about Lazara is that for some reason the lazarus pit gave her the ability to raise the dead. And since Talia built that specific pit on the sight of a ethnic cleansing mass grave ("To remind me of true evil") Freeze and Batgirl have to fight off a zombie army. kalonZombie posted:Sort of like the time that Scarecrow could turn into the Scarebeast, I guess. He looked loving ridiculous too. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:He looked loving ridiculous too. To be fair, he looks like something you might see after a heavy dose of Scarecrow's fear gas.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2015 17:18
|
|
|
Does he have spines for toes?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2015 23:17
|
|
|
Roots, they're digging into the floor boards.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:You know something I noticed when I watched all of Batman the Animated Series? The second half is basically a long, tragic look at recidivism. Penguin in particular does his best to try and reform but just can't pull it off. Yeah, there are a lot of "X tries to reform, but can't." episodes. At least it stuck for Ventriloquist.  Bobbin Threadbare posted:Joker never tries to reform, of course, but even Harley Quinn tries to let go of being his sidekick for one episode. In Penguin's case, he tries to go straight and gets invited into the upper echelons of society by a charming young lady, but then he finds out that he's only there because of the novelty and he gets angry, attempts to get some revenge on the snobs, and then Batman shows up. Joker had Joker's Millions, technically, where he didn't so much reform as he did live a rich lifestyle just to stick it to Batman and his kids. When it turned out half the money was fake, though, he went back to crime. The Penguin episode was the worst of it, though, since Batman sort of helped to push Penguin right back into criminal activity. At least with Riddler and Ivy he had reasons to be suspicious. With Penguin, he just really hounded the guy despite seeing a ton of evidence to the contrary. kalonZombie posted:There's been a couple of instances of Freeze's wife being taken out of the equation. In the Animated Series she actually gets cured off screen and then leaves him when she learns the horrible things he had to do to cure her. He went to go live in Greenland or something after that. In the comics I believe she died, because there's one instance of Batman fighting Freeze because he was doing some weird stuff to the weather and making it snow super hard, but the motivation behind that was she always loved white Christmases, so he wanted to give her one, and the last panel is of him kneeling in front of her grave. That's because that comic took place before Deep Freeze. Remember that he thought Nora was dead in his debut in Heart of Ice. Nora wanted to get back together with Victor following her revival in Sub-Zero, but he never went to be with her because his body was breaking down. That's when the events of Cold Comfort came in. At some point, Nora remarried with some guy named D'anjou, but still held a flame for Victor. At some point after Cold Comfort, Victor briefly works for Talia before she betrays him, causing him to leave Gotham. D'anjou hid all the letter he sent to Nora, making him believe that she didn't want to keep in contact. Eventually, though, D'anjou gets really threatened by Nora's interest in Freeze and frames him for murder by programming some ice robot to kill Ferris Boyle and Grant Walker. Nora tracks him down in the arctic and finds out he's innocent, but Mr. Freeze's head is lost under the ocean after Batman follows her and gets into a fight with him. Nora thinks he's dead and is full of grief. D'anjou is arrested, Nora leaves him, and Mr. Freeze floats adrift until he's found by the people who have him in Batman Beyond. DCAU Wiki posted:Nora's only "live" appearance in the DCAU continuity is in issues of the comic book Batman: Gotham Knights taking place after the events of "Cold Comfort". After her re-marriage, her new husband, Francis D'Anjou, becomes frustrated at her continuing affection for the "monster" Victor has become, and so sets up an elaborate scheme to frame Victor for a series of crimes and "prove" to Nora that he is irredeemable. He creates a robotic imposter of Fries, who stalks and kills both Ferris Boyle and Grant Walker, before being exposed as a fraud. At the end of the debacle, Freeze is presumed killed after disappearing under an ice sheet after a brief reunion with his wife, in which they both proclaim they still love each other. Freeze's head is found locked away in a vault at Powers Technology, and Nora never sees him again, but their last thoughts in the story are of each other. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Dec 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2015 00:14
|
|
|
Hobgoblin2099 posted:Mr. Freeze and Nora I came here to see Batman punch crotches, hang people from Gargoyles, and bitch about Robin. I did not come here to cry.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2015 17:18
|
|
|
kalonZombie posted:Sort of like the time that Scarecrow could turn into the Scarebeast, I guess. Actully he did get mutated by some chick he teamed up with. The power activating when he was under extreme stress. I know it came back in the Wargames storyline. Scarecrow teamed up with Black Mask to break into Oracle's Clocktower. After finding a trap of some kind, Black Mask just pushed Scarecrow into it to get around the trap. Resulting Scarecrow getting badly injured. After which he turned into the Scarebeast again and fought Nightwing and Robin outside the Clock Tower in his mindless rage while Mask fought Batman. After that it was never brought up again I believe.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 06:35
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:It's been too long for me to give specifics, but the general formula for villain reappearances was: Villain is released from prison/Arkham -> tries for a while to turn his/her life around -> is triggered by some negative occurrence--often Batman himself, although he does try to give them space -> resumes supervillainy -> is stopped by Batman -> winds up back in prison/Arkham.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 06:42
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Then you have poor Clayface trying to find a cure and has to steal stuff from Waynetech; and he succeeds and during the procedure it seems like he's just about to return to normal, until Batman shows up and stops it. To be more accurate, the stuff he stole was going to make him a stronger Clayface and prevent him from falling apart not reverse his condition. Otherwise, it'd have made more sense to just wait until he was cured to apprehend him. That being said, Clayface was a pretty compelling villain in TAS, aside from in Holiday Knights. Why aren't there more good Clayface stories given how the character is a treasure trove of potential?
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 02:06
|
|
|
Clayface's story in The Batman was pretty good. Dude got turned into Clayface by the Joker and tries to reconcile his previous life as a cop with his need for revenge against the Joker. Admittedly, I didn't watch all of the episodes of The Batman (mostly because I couldn't get over how weird the Joker looked), but the episodes on Clayface were pretty solid. I think there was an episode or two about Man Bat, but I don't really remember. I do know that his appearance in Batman Unlimited: Animal Instincts was pretty solid, and the Penguin's character design was great. Although I still don't know what they were thinking with Nightwing's hair; it really looks like there's a Birdarang hidden in there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 04:11
|
|
|
Kobanya posted:Clayface's story in The Batman was pretty good. Dude got turned into Clayface by the Joker and tries to reconcile his previous life as a cop with his need for revenge against the Joker. Admittedly, I didn't watch all of the episodes of The Batman (mostly because I couldn't get over how weird the Joker looked), but the episodes on Clayface were pretty solid. That's because they basically took Two-Face's backstory and gave it to a new original character. If I recall correctly they weren't allowed to use Two-Face or the Scarecrow due to them appearing in Batman Begins. The Batman was never shy about seriously messing with comics lore, though. That's one of the things that made it a good show.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 07:05
|
|
|
Today we get a formal introduction to Predator mode and how that works. It's neat. I like it. I like this game. This game is neat. Episode 2: Your Intellectual Superior ... Uncut ... Cut 
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUmce-zeaAA
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 01:27
|
|
|
Get used to TItan fights, new viewers, it's not gonna stop any time soon. Also get used to terrible boss fights. For all of the amazing things this series does, bosses are not one of them. The Chronicles of Arkham would've made for a WAY better book series than Narnia. Bat Jesus has got to be a better idea than Lion Jesus. The predator mechanic is the first time the game absolutely blew me away. I love the way the game subtly changes the way the mooks act based on their heart rate and the way you've moved around the room. The best part is once you've got one guy left and you just gently caress with him to take his heart rate all the way to terrified. You can string guys up, throw batarangs at the area around him, do other stuff with later gadgets, and basically do everything short of make the guy piss his pants. It's really a drat shame that The Riddler was such a great idea in this game, because then they couldn't help but to hammer it into the sequels regardless of whether it'd be good or not. I mean riddles are fun, but 4 games of it? Sheesh. Shout out to the wrestling reference!
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 05:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
I think the explanation for the Joker teeth is just that Riddler really hates them so he wants you to destroy as many as possible. No idea why the Arkham Chronicles count, though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2015 06:51
|
|