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Sylphosaurus posted:He sure didn't seem have a problem with it during the 10+ years it took to write the books, at least. He wrote his orcs that way, but in his letters he mentions that, due to his Catholic beliefs, he was deeply troubled by the idea that Orcs were naturally evil due to their corruption. He firmly believed that all beings should have a chance at salvation, and never figured out how to reconcile it before he died.
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Dec 23, 2015 07:31
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Jsor posted:It actually would've been interesting if they started off the mission by getting you to try and heal the peasants with priests, but after the first couple of rounds it became clear it wasn't working and they changed the objective on you. I think what makes the twist here really fall flat is that Arthas is actually right. These people will 100% without a doubt turn into undead. Nothing can be done to save them, and they are going to be a menace to others. So when Uther and Jaina leave, it just seems silly. Yes, perhaps Arthas was overly aggressive in the way he handled the situation, but knowing the scope of the threat it is hard not to. I think a much better way to handle this would have been to have some ambiguity. Maybe don't make the infected humans literally glow green. Maybe make it so the change isn't inevitable, or make it take varying lengths of time. Things like it maybe happening or eventually happening allow Arthas to look a little unhinged in his handling of the problem while still leaving us sympathetic to his actions. I think a brief intro where you try to cure some infected townsfolk would be brilliant. Have Uther, Arthas, and Jaina stomp on a small camp of undead, try to fix the innocents, only to meet with no success. Maybe with time, or better resources, they could manage it. But, Athas maintains they don't have that kind of time. Boom, you have a situation where both sides can be related to by the players, and still starts the path to Athas' downfall.
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Dec 23, 2015 08:59
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I think the events that play out are fine. It's not ambiguous that Arthas makes the right decision tactically; it's just a terrible choice to make morally. Uther had pretty much just turned up and didn't even know where the undead were coming from until that moment, while Arthas had been watching people turn for three missions now. Uther's first instinct would be to save them - he's a paladin, and a hero of Lordaeron - while Arthas and Jaina are both well aware of how out of their depth they are. Note that Jaina never objects to what Arthas is doing, she just can't bring herself to take part in it. Killing innocent people is pretty drastic. The idea here isn't that Arthas is turning evil, so much that he is letting his paladin principles slide to win the war.
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Dec 24, 2015 23:24
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At this point the magical Corruption hasn't happened yet...
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Dec 25, 2015 00:38
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Yeah, the simple fact is, Arthas' mistake here was NOT killing the civilians. It was giving Uther an ultimatum instead of a better explanation. Explain how quickly the plague turns them. That even if they HAD a cure, which they don't, they wouldn't be able to administer it in time. Arthas' fatal flaw... is impatience.
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Dec 25, 2015 10:11
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Also being dumb as a brick but that's kind of expected, royalty and all.
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Dec 25, 2015 10:19
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The wonders of inbreeding! Most of my experience with Warcraft all comes from World of Warcraft because I am a bad at RTS games. I jumped out of that hole a while ago though. Played that game way too much, got Loremaster on Horde-side both pre-Cataclysm and post-Cataclysm.
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Dec 25, 2015 10:44
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anilEhilated posted:Also being dumb as a brick but that's kind of expected, royalty and all.  Wasn't it Charles II of Spain who had a family tree more shaped like the trunk than the branches? Poil fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 10:56
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Poil posted:Wasn't it Charles II of Spain who had a family tree more shaped like the trunk than the branches? 
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Dec 25, 2015 11:33
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The Ptolemaic dynasty was even worse to some extent. The had a whole lot of brother-sister marriages going on, as was the tradition at the time. Also a tradition was murdering your close family relatives before they could murder you. So you'd marry your brother or sister have a child with them, kill your spouse and hoped your kid liked you enough to not off you straight away. HBO could do wonders with a setting like this. From the wiki page: "members of this dynasty likely suffered from a multi-organ fibrotic condition such as Erdheim–Chester disease or a familial multifocal fibrosclerosis where thyroiditis, obesity and ocular proptosis may have all occurred concurrently." Nice. Arthas is probably just as inbred.
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Dec 25, 2015 12:19
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ultrabindu posted:Arthas is probably just as inbred.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:12
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Poil posted:And he still managed to steal an elf's girlfriend. You mean an elf's creepy stalker crush. Male characters in Warcraft have a tendency to be goony motherfuckers when their love interest isn't a cardboard cut-out waifu. See Illidan for a particularly extreme example.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:51
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I thought Illidan was sort of resigned to the fact that Tyrande will never love him back? Sure he's still a nutcase but he doesn't ever deny that Tyrande made her choice from memory. His big problem is he wants to be the hero for once, because everytime he and his brother do anything his brother gets praise and he gets damnation. Of course Illidan is doing what he thinks is the right thing because he wants to be recognised as a hero, whereas Malfurion does the actual right thing because it's the right thing to do.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:24
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I think he was referring more to the whole "still has a crush after thousands of years" thing.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:35
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Cythereal posted:You mean an elf's creepy stalker crush. Male characters in Warcraft have a tendency to be goony motherfuckers when their love interest isn't a cardboard cut-out waifu. See Illidan for a particularly extreme example. anilEhilated posted:I think he was referring more to the whole "still has a crush after thousands of years" thing.
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Dec 25, 2015 14:50
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Poil posted:The only thing I know about it is the two lines of dialog from the Frozen Throne mission at the end. Personally I think illidan is an overrated twat who gets way too much attention. He's not cool, he's not exciting and he's certainly not smart. He is just a lame dumbass who makes even worse decisions than paladin Arthas. He's got a cool model, turned into a demon monster of insane power that was player controllable, and was an agility based hero and thus op on 90% of all custom maps ever. It's less people think he's cool as a character and more that he was fun as a unit.
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Dec 25, 2015 15:26
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Eh, I like him. He's got two dimensions, love and addiction, that's at least one more than just about everyone else in the franchise. Plus he's really fun to play in HotS.
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Dec 25, 2015 15:29
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Poil posted:And he still managed to steal an elf's girlfriend. Who was this? Was that Windrunner?
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Dec 25, 2015 21:54
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Jaina and Kael, IIRC.
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Dec 25, 2015 21:58
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anilEhilated posted:Jaina and Kael, IIRC. Yep. God knows why, but Warcraft established that when Jaina was an apprentice in Dalaran, Kael'Thas - prince of Quel'Thalas (the elf kingdom for those not familiar with the series) and an exceptionally powerful mage briefly studying with the human mages of Dalaran, had a serious thing for her. He stopped once Arthas showed up as Jaina's boyfriend and also decided that a 30-year-old elf prince crushing on a teenage human girl was inappropriate.
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Dec 26, 2015 13:57
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As I recall Kael was attracted to her because she was quite pretty, for a human, but more importantly was an absurdly powerful mage even at a young age. Jaina is actually one of the most powerful mages on Azeroth and showed her potential very early on, and Kael'Thas, like most High Elves, finds magical power very attractive because they have a deep connection to the arcane energies of Azeroth. Jaina herself didn't particularly care as she was more intent on studying, and Kael'Thas was almost certain he had no chance as he was already several centuries old.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:00
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Metzen himself has also said he loves him a good redemption story. For a slightly larger political perspective. At this point in the timeline Varian Wrynn is ruling Stormwind but I wanna say he's in his teens and just started trying to make Anduin. Also if you want to follow along with the Adventures of Arthas, just read the second half of the Book "Arthas" where the author literally just recaps, mission by mission, the first two campaigns.
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Dec 27, 2015 03:29
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No update this week?
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Dec 27, 2015 22:52
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Calax posted:Metzen himself has also said he loves him a good redemption story.
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Dec 27, 2015 23:18
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Maybe I am trying to make excuses and fill in plot holes but I liked this part of the story line for Arthas, I always felt that it made it clear that there was so little time to act and Arthas being Arthas had to act now. I also never got why Jaina didn't just explain the whole thing to Uther after the split, I'd hope that even with his ideals Uther would see there was no better choice and could have turned around but then I guess that doesn't make a good story. Never mind helps if I both remember correctly and watch all the videos first. The fact that Uther turns up at the mission before Stratholme means this all explained above is pointless and wrong. It is just bad writing I guess. koolkevz666 fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 01:03
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Litany Unheard posted:So what's with Blizzard's obsession with goodly heroes becoming CORRUPTED? It's an interesting plot once or twice, but it seems to happen three to five times per franchise. It's generally done really badly (Not a surprise) and is fairly easy. When they do it with Paladins it seems like just one of those DM's that are neckbeard enough to just enjoy corrupting them in the first place.
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Dec 28, 2015 01:27
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Exhibit B that this game has room for error.   
Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 01:38
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You posted the same screenshot twice.
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Dec 28, 2015 01:39
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my dad posted:You posted the same screenshot twice. It's weird, because when I paste the second URL in my bar, it goes to the right image... E: Fixed
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Dec 28, 2015 01:40
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Your commentary has that spiel about Muradin's stats twice in a row. Probably not intentional, but it certainly adds to the whole clusterfuck theme of this video.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:29
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One lore/story clarification: the Scourge's crypt fiends are undead Nerubians. Nerubian creeps are living survivors of the race, about which we'll get some more detail in The Frozen Throne. In short, they're a race native to Northrend that lived underground in their realm of Azjol-Nerub until the newly created Scourge attacked. The War of the Spider ended with Azjol-Nerub conquered by the Scourge and many Nerubians raised as undead crypt fiends and crypt lords. The ubiquitous Scourge ziggurat is also of Nerubian design, repurposed now to fuel the Scourge's armies.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:49
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Cythereal posted:One lore/story clarification: the Scourge's crypt fiends are undead Nerubians. Nerubian creeps are living survivors of the race, about which we'll get some more detail in The Frozen Throne. In short, they're a race native to Northrend that lived underground in their realm of Azjol-Nerub until the newly created Scourge attacked. The War of the Spider ended with Azjol-Nerub conquered by the Scourge and many Nerubians raised as undead crypt fiends and crypt lords. The ubiquitous Scourge ziggurat is also of Nerubian design, repurposed now to fuel the Scourge's armies. For some reason I thought the surface Nerubian creeps we see were still undead (hence them having necromancy and such). I know that the underground ones were alive. Alpha3KV posted:Your commentary has that spiel about Muradin's stats twice in a row. Probably not intentional, but it certainly adds to the whole clusterfuck theme of this video. Oops , I added an annotation. Not sure how I missed that.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:57
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anilEhilated posted:Probably explains the mess that is Starcraft 2. Yeah, he responded to that after a question about the blind man who died in Burning Crusade possibly coming back.
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Dec 28, 2015 03:08
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Jsor posted:
You could go full pro and make an annotation that would allow to skip these 30 seconds [I can't come up with an emote to put here just imagine an emote]
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Dec 28, 2015 03:10
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Done
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Dec 28, 2015 04:31
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You let the captain die in the base, you tremendous failure.
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Dec 28, 2015 05:00
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Drakenel posted:You let the captain die in the base, you tremendous failure. He deserved it. Promoted to that rank and didn't even warn me that my plan was stupid 
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Dec 28, 2015 05:07
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the lich leveled twice
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Dec 28, 2015 05:08
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Jsor posted:He deserved it. Promoted to that rank and didn't even warn me that my plan was stupid Some royalty used court jesters as messengers of bad news. What Arthas needs is a jester to critisize his actions.
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Dec 28, 2015 05:15
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Ah, the light-forsaken lands of Northrend. Incidentally they named their European server Northrend. It's quite fitting. Siege tanks are really great in multiplayer team games, but they definitely need the rocket upgrade to be useful enough to bother with in an army. Mortar teams may be fragile but they can actually attack units and have good range. Iretep posted:Some royalty used court jesters as messengers of bad news. What Arthas needs is a jester to critisize his actions.
Poil fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 11:19
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