GCHQ Christmas Card

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Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

this is all well and good but terrorists are just using free-to-play phone game apps to communicate with each other so good job crypto assholes way to be useful

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 18:08

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 01:58

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

I hate those questions because it always feels like some bullshit 'what am I thinking of' game instead of actually measuring intelligence or skill or whatever.

I mean what is 'Which of these is not the odd one out?' by definition there must at least be 2 viable answers then you dolts. How do you pick a single item out of 5-6 that is both singularly the correct answer AND isn't 'the odd one out' (ie has some sort of commonality with one or more of the others)?

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 19:03

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Dr Cheeto posted:

I'm not sure what's confusing you. You can make a set of rules which exclude only one answer (e.g. must start with "s", double repeating consonants, ends with " T"). The one you can't exclude is the correct answer.

What is confusing me is I can make a set of rules that would exclude any one of them. Why is the correct answer on the first question 'Shallot' and not one of the others? If it isn't 'the odd one out' then how come it is the only answer with the letter 'h' in it?

spud posted:

You have the wrong kind of autism. That is exactly what they want to check you idiot:how are these suspects encoding their messages, so there is a massive "what am I thinking" factor. Are you trolling?

Also, there are apparently 5 parts, not 3.

gently caress this.

My point is the 'right' answer is completely arbitrary unless the entire point of the exercise is to end up with a set of answers that read out 'deface' at the end or some dumb meta poo poo like that.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 19:19

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

quote:

For the first question, whT rules do you have to make another word the odd one out?

If I have to find one that ISN'T the odd one out then there are tons of rule sets that work. If I'm trying to find a word that IS the odd one out then that's easy, too.

The question is 'what word is never the odd one out no matter what set of rules you come up with' but that's dumb because as I said I can come up with a set of rules to make any one of them the odd one out. And Shallot can't be NEVER the odd one out because it is the only one with an 'h.'

To answer your question (what rules do I have to make another word the odd one out), 'suggest' is the only answer that has a 'u' in it so I could say 'any word without 'u' is part of the set.' You can also get more esoteric with it and say things like 'starlet' is the only word describing a human - since they are vague with the question I see no reason that I have to keep the 'correct' answer strictly to letter/grammer/word rule sets like we've been doing (shallot is the only onion variant plant on there for example, which again makes it 'the odd one out').

spud posted:

Then your rules were incorrect... The answer might be correct but it wouldn't be globally applicable or correct in this case, and you would need personal a priori knowledge.

Yeah that's my point, and their correct answer also needs some personal a priori knowledge. 'This case' is just whatever the questioner decides is right.

This particular question was just constructed poorly.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 19:39

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

spud posted:

EDIT: you missed the NOT.... Not the odd one out. You are looking for commonality not difference.

I see only one set of rules to satisfy the question.

Not the odd one out = commonality with some others. The question is asking which word is NOT the odd one out (ie you can't come up with a ruleset that would exclude it from the others thus it is never the odd one out). Right?

The actual answer given those parameters is 'none of them.'

I didn't miss the NOT, it's the reason why the question sucks. Their logic is muddled.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 19:45

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

spud posted:

None of them wasn't a choice though,which bounds the problem space massively. I would completely agree with you if the question was open ended.

When you work it through, Shallot is the only answer.

But shallot can't NOT be the odd one out, it has an 'h' and none of the others do so therefore it can't be a correct answer to their question given a very basic single rule I came up with to define a set (a set containing all answers without the letter 'h'). Plus, I can come up with a rule that would exclude any one of the others which means none of the answers can't NOT be the odd one out. Do you see my problem? The only way I'd know what was 'really' the correct answer is to know what the questioner is thinking.

I see what they were going for but they flubbed it, is all. If 'none' is the correct answer then it doesn't matter if it is a choice on there or not; the question is incorrect. They ask you a question that has no correct choice in the answers.

The question is basically 'Which answer can NOT be contained in a set by itself?' and the list of answers doesn't provide an option to fit that because they give you no instructions that define the bounds by which you can define the set and thus any of the answers could be made to fit.

Saying 'shallot' is NEVER the odd one out but having it be the only choice with an 'h' in the spelling is kinda :psyduck:

to me but maybe I'm just not seeing something. Like why 'shallot' and not 'saffron' for instance? Because saffron is the only one that ends with an 'n?' But then what about the 'h' in 'shallot?'

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 20:14

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

spud posted:

You aren't thinking outside the box.

The H in Shallot is just like the U in suggest. What makes suggest different from shallot? Instead of trying to make a global set of rules (I did this, coming from a comp sci background, and its the wrong way of thinking), compare each word with every other and try to eliminate one of the pair.

Hint: you need meta data.

Answer: Suggest is not a noun, therefore different

E. Saffron ends in n, therefore unique.

See but... that's what I mean. These 'think outside the box' questions are really just 'what am I thinking' most of the time.

I get how the H in 'shallot' is like the U in 'suggest' - it's a unique letter. And I get how shallot is different than suggest (noun vs verb). But I don't see how that makes shallot NOT the odd one out. It seems like that in fact makes shallot unique versus the others and I can put it in a set of 1 by itself and therefore it can't NOT be the odd one out. The fact that it is a noun with a second letter than none of the other words start with or share makes it the odd one out.

Furthermore, it's some bullshit 'lol what am I thinking' to say 'Saffron ends in N and is therefore unique, but the fact that Shallot is the only answer with an H as the second letter is irrelevant.'

The question just sucks and the fact that they gave us a limited set of answers to work backwards from doesn't make it any better, really.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 20:46

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

spud posted:

Ok... Maybe write to them and say this.

I can't offer anymore help,other than this is not a straight IQ test. I am not even any good at this stuff, but Q1 did make sense to me.

Oh, you are still comparing each word over the entire set. That does not work. It's on a pair basis.

quote:

Instead of trying to make a global set of rules (I did this, coming from a comp sci background, and its the wrong way of thinking), compare each word with every other and try to eliminate one of the pair.

I did that and for every possible permutation there's a commonality, therefore NONE of them could ever be the 'odd one out' therefore the question doesn't work.

quote:

Which of these is not the odd one out?

A STARLET
B SONNET
C SAFFRON
D SHALLOT
E TORRENT
F SUGGEST

code:

       Commonality:                             Difference:
A - B: both end with T and start with S        7 letters vs 6
A - C: both start with S                       not double vs double consonant
A - D: both end with T and start with S        not double vs double consonant
A - E: both end with T                         not double vs double consonant
A - F: both end with T                         not double vs double consonant
B - C: both start with S                       C ends with 'n'
B - D: both have double consonant              D contains 'h'
B - E: both have double consonant              E starts with 't'
B - F: both have double consonant              F contains 'u'
C - D: both have double consonant              C ends with 'n'
C - E: both have double consonant              C ends with 'n'
C - F: Both have double consonant              C ends with 'n'
D - E: both end with T                         E starts with 't'
D - F: both end with T                         D contains 'h'
F - E: both have double consonant              E starts with 't'

What makes 'shallot' uniquely common such that it can NEVER be the odd one out and is the correct answer versus one of the others? The question asks 'Which of the following can NOT be the odd one out?' (ie, which of the following ALWAYS shares some commonality with another word) and there is nothing particular about 'shallot' to give it that distinction.

Every single pair has both a commonality and a difference so how the hell is anyone supposed to definitively be able to say which word can NEVER fit in a set by itself unless they know what the questioner is thinking? NONE of those words can not be the odd one out.

Maybe I'm just fundamentally missing something. And again the very fact that 'shallot' has a letter that is unique to itself versus the other answers (H) makes it possible that 'shallot' can be an odd one out so how can it be the right answer? It's just whatever they decided was the right answer but there's no real objectively correct answer in that list.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 20:58

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 01:58

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

spud posted:

Ok I broke out the loving laptop for this:

YES! STOP COMPARING THINGS GLOBALLY YOU ARE loving KILLING ME.

If you compare A to B, make a decision, and then one is gone.

Now your set is reduced to 5 options.Then 4, then 3, and so on.

If you hit a dead end, expand back to 6, and start with comparing A to C, and then work on as before.

In all your examples you just compare everything to everything else, trying to make some global ruleset that you can just apply regardless of what you are comparing to whatever else, and i've said at least 3 times, stop doing that.

This was one of only 2 easy questions I understood and could solve.

Well idk the other 3-4 people I just showed this to agree that the question is dumb.

Look: the question asks 'which of these is not unique in any way.' That's what 'can NOT be the odd one out' means. Shallot has a goddamn H and it is the only one that does. Either the question is worded weird or the list of answers is borked.

Global rulesets or individual pairs or whatever the hell, all it amounts to is 'can you GUESS what the questioner's logic here is?' and it's a poorly worded question.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 15, 2015

# ¿ Dec 15, 2015 21:34

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > GCHQ Christmas Card