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Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Does this mean some vessels will be flat out better?

Edit: answer yes

Stormgale fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Dec 30, 2015

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Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

I think the best/worst thing about thte sharding is how it will allow players/groups of players to go to another more fun world if poo poo is bad but conversely the same is true (as a downside if people always leave).

It will be managing that (And ensuring a good valid PVP playpool) that will sink or swim this IMO.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

cathead posted:

Yeah that was one of the potential issues they identified early on. They had some ideas that ranged from pretty hardline stuff like "if you join a campaign your character is locked to it until the end" to more granular stuff like "you can leave early but you'll forfeit your rewards and have to pay a penalty". I imagine we might see some different approaches now that they've settled on the vessel system though.

I think no matter what it's going to be a long road to get to the "full design" of the game, with multiple campaigns in different rulesets running concurrently. I know their initial focus was starting with "The Dregs" where it's FFA full loot, ostensibly because that's the easiest way to test combat and looting interactions for the more complex rulesets later on. It's also probably the easiest way to draw in and keep around a small loyal group of testers who are looking for their next HARDCORE PVP fix while they get the other rulesets in place.

Thinking about it that way I should probably revise the release estimate in the OP :v:

The big issue is it's a very granular scale between;

People abandoning at the first sign of trouble
to
People being stuck fighting an impossible war where they just lose (and thus stop playing)

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

mightygerm posted:

This is the critical issue of open-world territory control MMOs. The game has to be fun on some level for both the winners and losers, and unlike in 'real life' you want people to default to fighting, not settling on peace and playing farmville.
Its a very hard balance to get right, and having time-limited campaigns as a 'reset' mechanism is a good step towards preventing stagnation.

This is true but my point is with the time limited nature you are kind of just adding another step of "Go to another world" in between "Find it unfun" and Quit, if oeioke are constantly hopping then battles have no impact and quickly become unfun. In the inverse if im stuck fighting a pointless war for say longer than a few days i'm probably gonna stop fighting.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

cathead posted:

This is why it's absolutely imperative that they get combat right. If it's just fun to go out and fight people then people will do it just for the hell of it, and working toward that greater goal of winning is just another layer of the entertainment. Otherwise you end up with situations where it's like "this is actually unfun to play but I'm going to anyway because I want to win" which is something that Eve struggled with a lot in some aspects of its design.

I think it also has to do with the metagame cost of going to fight, if my dickfuck empire can't control the whole map easily because we can lose as much as we gain then it leaves room for smaller groups.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Kimsemus posted:

If they work the way they should, then bam, there is your small group content.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing on that, it's the % chance of if.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Blazing Zero posted:

unless it somehow translates to power in the actual game, the EK system seems wholly uninteresting to me

It's your vanity / trophy room which to be fair alot of people aren't into.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Kimsemus posted:

Depending on how much of an advantage an EK gives this could be an unfun and unbalanced thing.

Well remember the advantage is limited both by export and import rules, so the "Serious" stuff could easily be more limited.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Kimsemus posted:

So did I, I just can't remember when I did or how I even found this game.

Oh well, in it to win it now. :toot:

Bad pvp mmo crew checking the gently caress in

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Orv posted:

I fuckin' warned you about Crowfall man, I warned you!

Oh Sweet Orv, much like a greek oracle your wisdom is cursed to never be accepted.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Usenet Magic-User posted:

The crow ship game in which goons rule the eternal kingdom

I personally am excited on being the only gently caress grinding body crafting so I can make everyone be the hamsters

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Kimsemus posted:

Orv, our eternal voice of reason, which we also never listen to but probably should.

Not even going to reference classical Greek plays, I'm disappointed man.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Orv posted:

It is genuinely bothersome to me that you think I'm the voice of reason in the Bad MMO Squad. That hurts man.

How does this relate to your reaction to puns?

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

I think they are going to use ammo to put ranger in a harassment role with a scout/skirmishing archetype (this is me probably talking out my rear end) but forcing the ranger to use ammo means that as an engagement goes on they lose alot of their potency, meaning for big sieges you bring a tonne and have to commit for that ranged superiority but you can also carry light and focus on ambush/harassment.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

I mean explicitly the "Faction" Pvp of order chaos and balance necessitates intrigue from the balance side to ensure the war isn't decidedly won by either other faction

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Orv posted:

Then why is it all so garbage? :colbert:

(There are a bunch of reasons Crowfall is currently garbage.)

Well I mean it's an MMO so that covers 99% of it

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

^^ Caveat that you can actually mess with them and they won't just curbstomp you forever


So they are literally WoW outlaw rogues, cool

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Capntastic posted:

Yeah someone told me that and I had to look it up and it is absolutely true in every way.

Haha. Oh well. They're still good.

Well yeah, the way they are making combo points influence your amount of rolls instead of duration (like in wow) Is better i think.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Drakkus posted:

when the game comes out, we'll all be crafting behind the easily breakable and shoddily made walls of goontown anyway

Ftfy

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Kimsemus posted:

My BMW brethren and I have spent many years on Rust defeating clever mancastles.

Crowfall will not be safe from us.

But Kimsemus, what if they fish?

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

eSporks posted:

I assume that once you are in a campaign you are semi locked in. Campaign s also last longer than anything that would be called an instance.
I also assume you can have 100 people in one place instead of a group getting their private farm zone instance.

Serious answer:
Campaigns will have loot rules both in and out, so you can only really cash out at the end.
You can fight a war on multiple fronts but you can only really keep the resources in each war.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Capntastic posted:

The best part of the embargo mechanic is that if you have 100 items stockpiled in your vault and your faction loses the war, you lose a percentage of it at random- but that percentage can be reduced if you "kneel" to the winning faction and get branded as a loser of that campaign permanently

Thats kinda neat and deals with the issue of "Foregone conclusions" being drawn out, all the losers can kneel to get out with more stuff

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Flavahbeast posted:

yeah Hero's Song worldgen is pretty explicitly based on dwarf fort. Trying to do the same thing with Crowfall's campaigns is a good call

I wonder if this will be... Gameable? like if you can infer locations from other locations

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Space Monster posted:

Any idea about how this will actually work...?

World with have generic templates like "Mountain range" 1-5 and Plains + Town 1-3

These will then have a dwarf fortress like process applied to them to simulate the World happening, adding tombs, battlefields, stuff on top of the terrain (perhaps even altering it).

Thus 2 maps may have te same base structure of mountain range but one might have an ancient keep buried into it at the other may have something else

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

To be fair that is what I understood by reading the descriptions, my big issue with it is making it feel... fair and/or fun.

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

malhavok posted:

This is why i prefer sticking with Goon Squad, not a single one of you is actually as funny as you think you are :P

I'd rather have an unfunny guildname that showed someone at least tried :p

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Are they keeping the apples Andy oranges and quality his just for a specific type? I.e. better quality copper rather than copper being obsoleted?

Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

Ashrik posted:

What are disciplines, thralls, etc.?

Disciplines are extra ability and trait packages like adding archery or some other focus to customise your character

Thralls are worker minions I think?

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Stormgale
Feb 27, 2010

TheFace posted:

I really wanted this game to be good. Why can't we have a good PVP MMO? WHY?!

Because it's very hard to make a game where both sides are players (meaning one must lose) that is fun and engagin.

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