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Golbez
Oct 9, 2002

1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
I am absolutely loving this. Not many games warrant this kind of deep analysis, and this is definitely one that does. A question, though: You have neither parried, nor mentioned parrying, once. Are you saving that? Because the black knight in Undead Burg was what caused me to learn how to parry, which became infinitely useful.

This has made me want to play again, but only after I buy a controller for my PC. Playing with the keyboard was okay, but I never, ever got the hang of backstabbing, the movement was just too rough to manage that.

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Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
Not only do I not parry, I'm going to get the Eagle Shield at first chance so it is literally impossible for me to parry

Smoky Bandana
Oct 1, 2009

You can trip on my synthesizer.

Vicas posted:

Not only do I not parry, I'm going to get the Eagle Shield at first chance so it is literally impossible for me to parry

Shiva's is my shield of choice, has that sweet greatshield bounce as well as letting me parry the few times it's worth it over just killing them in the wind-up.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
Good morning! have an episode from the latest recording session!


11 - Sword Bastard

This episode runs a little long because I wanted to get a bit of action in the Parish in. In this episode we find my true calling, big swords

The greatswords probably have my favorite overall moveset in the game, faster than the ultragreatswords but still really good reach and really powerful. It's mostly personal preference

TimNeilson
Dec 21, 2008

Hahaha!
Casting TWoP with that sword probably costs 50 durability, that's the usual durability cost for items with special attacks like that.

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

Mater Dolorosa
I forgot about that spinning tree.
Did any of the devs ever comment on it? Or any of the more spergy loreposters? I have no idea why it spins

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


I think it's just slowly turning to face you.

VietTam
Jul 17, 2008

Eat it, nerd!

RoboChrist 9000 posted:

I forgot about that spinning tree.
Did any of the devs ever comment on it? Or any of the more spergy loreposters? I have no idea why it spins

It's how it moves.
If you go fight the moonlight butterfly and walk back through the area the first tree will be completely away from the path and you can just walk by it.
It stops moving/spinning when you get near because that's its camouflage

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.

VietTam posted:

It's how it moves.
If you go fight the moonlight butterfly and walk back through the area the first tree will be completely away from the path and you can just walk by it.
It stops moving/spinning when you get near because that's its camouflage

Did not know the first one would move away too, huh

But yeah, I went back and looked at the video and the second tree did stop turning when I got close to it

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

IIRC the first tree will actually move to block the entrance. So when you come back, you wander around looking for where you came in, don't find the entrance, find a path that wasn't there before, and are all but intended to find the Wolf Ring and jump back to the starting area.

Instead, most people seem to kill the Butterfly after sprinting past all the stone guardians and treemen, realize they're on low estus and health, don't want to walk back to the bonfire, and instead they just homeward bone out.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
Do you like Gargoyles? I sure do


12 - Gargoyle Rumble

e: i have already hosed up updating the OP, but it should be caught up now

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

So satisfying. You've played for hours to progress. To open a 30 second elevator ride.

'These guys are not that dangerous' *goes down to low health*

I also like how you can see the 2nd living gargoyle if you're paying attention. (one is pink, the other is stone grey)

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jan 26, 2016

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

I think the most satisfying thing is the gargoyle cutscene - something about the way the first gargoyle hits the roof is viscerally pleasing to me. I think it's the way he rebounds slightly like a real creature would after a fall. It's very good attention to detail in the animation.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.

CuwiKhons posted:

I think the most satisfying thing is the gargoyle cutscene - something about the way the first gargoyle hits the roof is viscerally pleasing to me. I think it's the way he rebounds slightly like a real creature would after a fall. It's very good attention to detail in the animation.

Everything about this fight makes it feel so heavy and intimidating, just like all the demons we've been fighting. It's pretty fantastic

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


I think that even if Solaire isn't the first-born he probably met him at some point. As Solaire's sword is depicted in a statue of what is probably Gwyn's wife holding a child, which considering his other two children aren't particularly known for swordsmanship would suggest his warrior first-born is the child in the statue. So Solaire might just have met the guy and gotten his sword for some reason, perhaps his whole mission to find the sun was given to him by the first-born who wants to fix Lordran but can't return because of the whole stripped of your godly status and cast out thing. If I remember correctly the statue is in the Undead Parish.

There's three more statues like that which leads me to a theory about why Gwyndolin is so inhuman compared to what we know of Gwynevere and the First-born. But I'll probably hold off on that until further unless anyone has a dying desire to know.

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Lord_Magmar posted:

perhaps his whole mission to find the sun was given to him by the first-born who wants to fix Lordran but can't return because of the whole stripped of your godly status and cast out thing.

Not to shatter your dreams but "find my own sun" pretty clearly refers to Solaire's own motivation of wanting to be as cool and good as the Lord of Sunlight.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Well considering the Sunlight Medal has the Symbol of Gwyn's Firstborn and says stuff about him watching over his warriors it's still pretty likely that Solaire has met the guy. Also finding your own sun sounds like a mission that every real Warrior of Sunlight would follow. Also it can be his own motivation but that doesn't meant it wasn't given to him, after all if Solaire is actually successful at finding his own Sun in a way that doesn't leave him hollow he almost certainly links the fire.

I personally still like the idea that Solaire is the Firstborn but doesn't actually remember it.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 26, 2016

BMS
Mar 11, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
Solaire IS THE SUN.

He's just on a quest to find his inner self.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jgb3qGo_hc&t=108s

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Lord_Magmar posted:

Well considering the Sunlight Medal has the Symbol of Gwyn's Firstborn and says stuff about him watching over his warriors it's still pretty likely that Solaire has met the guy.

Or, and stay with me here, maybe there's a religious sect in Lordran that reveres the concept of Gwyn's firstborn and gives out medals with an image representing him on it for that reason.

Oh wait no that's literally the truth.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya
I have a dumb personal theory that some of the NPCs the player encounters are meant to reflect player archetypes.

Solaire is the type who is way too into RPing.

Wayne
Oct 18, 2014

He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself

Paracelsus posted:

I have a dumb personal theory that some of the NPCs the player encounters are meant to reflect player archetypes.

No, I think you're on to something. Patches is the troll, Petrus is two-faced, Lautrec does to Firekeepers what most speed-runners do, etc. Siegmeyer is absolutely the guy who bashes his head against a stage and over and over until finally summoning someone to get him through it, until in the end he gets to return the favor.

It was kind of funny watching Vicas plink away for 15 damage a hit on the stone knights, while on the blind LP here Tempest casually one-shots them with a club. I've played a lot of Dark Souls, and I never realized just how stark damage type Pokemoning could be (I mean, besides things like trying to use a slashing weapon on the armored boar). For what it's worth, I think mathematically if you're hacking away at an enemy, you get the most damage-per-stamina with 2-handed R1s.

And yeah, if the last hit on an enemy with a body part you can break off kills it, you don't get it. :( I don't know why it works that way, anyone else who's done a "3 Kings" run knows the game can track enemy model HP separately from the total boss health bar; but it is what it is. I tend to suicide or Homeward out if I miss the tail and/or don't get a gargoyle helmet after killing the first one, gotta have my antler hat. :3:

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Wayne posted:

No, I think you're on to something. Patches is the troll, Petrus is two-faced, Lautrec does to Firekeepers what most speed-runners do, etc. Siegmeyer is absolutely the guy who bashes his head against a stage and over and over until finally summoning someone to get him through it, until in the end he gets to return the favor.

It was kind of funny watching Vicas plink away for 15 damage a hit on the stone knights, while on the blind LP here Tempest casually one-shots them with a club. I've played a lot of Dark Souls, and I never realized just how stark damage type Pokemoning could be (I mean, besides things like trying to use a slashing weapon on the armored boar). For what it's worth, I think mathematically if you're hacking away at an enemy, you get the most damage-per-stamina with 2-handed R1s.

And yeah, if the last hit on an enemy with a body part you can break off kills it, you don't get it. :( I don't know why it works that way, anyone else who's done a "3 Kings" run knows the game can track enemy model HP separately from the total boss health bar; but it is what it is. I tend to suicide or Homeward out if I miss the tail and/or don't get a gargoyle helmet after killing the first one, gotta have my antler hat. :3:

The tail is also very nice for visiting Blight Town. Delicious poison resist. Though it does take some stats to wield.

I was sorta wondering why Vicas was grinding through it with a sword when a reinforced club from the Undead Merchant can pretty much 2-hit them. And doesn't require that much strength. I don't recall any other enemy in the game having such a marked resist/vulnerability. Except maybe bone wheels. But eventually you can get two wheels and have a wheely good time.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Veloxyll posted:

I don't recall any other enemy in the game having such a marked resist/vulnerability.
I think skeletons in general are weak to strike and resistant to thrust (and extremely resistant to crits from thrust weapons). The stone knights are definitely the most prominent example of damage type mattering in DS1, though.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Lizard Wizard posted:

Or, and stay with me here, maybe there's a religious sect in Lordran that reveres the concept of Gwyn's firstborn and gives out medals with an image representing him on it for that reason.

Oh wait no that's literally the truth.

I'm not saying they don't worship him though? I'm just saying he either met Solaire or founded the Warriors, because Solaire is either using his sword or a nice replica. Also Solaire isn't from Lordran so the Warriors of Sunlight have probably spread beyond Lordran, in fact it's more likely they started outside Lordran whilst the Firstborn was banished because I somehow doubt Gwyn would be happy with people worshiping someone who has been banished and stripped from the Annals.

Also as I said I personally still think Solaire is the most likely candidate who we meet to be the Firstborn. The other stuff is just the other ways he could have a weapon associated with the Firstborn.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Lord_Magmar posted:

Also as I said I personally still think Solaire is the most likely candidate who we meet to be the Firstborn.

But that's still much less likely than "we never met the Firstborn, they are not a character in the final game."

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

Paracelsus posted:

But that's still much less likely than "we never met the Firstborn, they are not a character in the final game."

Then which NPC is Old Man McLoyf?

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
Alright folks, let's tone down the snark arguing. I don't really mind talking about people's personal feelings about what lore actually is, but one of my big points in all of this is gonna be how some things are very purposely left unclear, and arguing what the "true story" is sort of misses the point. Dark Souls is very purposely a picture book with some of the pages ripped out

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010

:blizz:


Alright, so the second gargoyle lacks a tail, and that much is immediately obvious. But, I never noticed before that one of it's wings is all shredded.

Given that the first one is hale and hearty but the second joins the fight at half health, that would make sense. :v:

Kush Limbaugh
Oct 10, 2012

Something that influenced Miyazaki's vision for Dark Souls was playing games that hadn't been translated into Japanese and trying to piece together a story where nothing was described explicitly. So, Dark Souls lore always hints at something intriguing, but the important details are never there, forcing the player to speculate. As such, everyone is going to have a different understanding of the backstory of Dark Souls and I like to hear how people interpreted the same information differently than I did. I always got the impression that the corpse wearing the Ring of the Sun's Firstborn was Gwyn's eldest child, but Solaire is a cool idea too.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
So we have all these keys now. Let's figure out what to do with them and talk about level design while we're at it


13 - Rock Me, Haveldeus

Mazed
Oct 23, 2010

:blizz:


I swear, Oswald is the single most effective jump-scare in this entire game.

Anti-Citizen
Oct 24, 2007
As You're Playing Chess, I'm Playing Russian Roulette

Mazed posted:

I swear, Oswald is the single most effective jump-scare in this entire game.

My first time playing I totally attacked him and pissed him off, noticing he was an NPC I ran away and wondered if there was a way to calm him down.

I was pretty dissapointed with the answer.

HotAndColdAF
May 30, 2011

Making Daddy proud.
Havel is my favorite not-character in the game. He's just so cool.

Gwen
Aug 17, 2011

In my most recent playthrough I got quite fed up with trying to backstab Havel and just dueled him head-on. Near the end Havel stood still to contemplate life and then pulled out his two-hit combo out of nowhere. It was a good fight.

Archer666
Dec 27, 2008

Vicas posted:

So we have all these keys now. Let's figure out what to do with them and talk about level design while we're at it


13 - Rock Me, Haveldeus

I always wondered why those crystal golems were there, from a story perspective. They're usually associated with a certain character that is nowhere near this area...

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

They could be there to make sure Havel doesn't leave. That character certainly has a vested interest in keeping Havel locked up.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Maybe they're trying to bring the Moonlight Butterfly boss home and just aren't particularly good at it for obvious reasons. It being in Darkroot is pretty weird considering it's also associated with the same character as the golems.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Maybe they're keeping an eye on the hydra? It being dragon-related (since it gives dragon scales) and/or being a thing from ye olden times...

Idiootti
Apr 11, 2012
Is posting spoilers allowed? They might be there keeping guard for the golem that holds Dusk of Oolacile. I think it might've been Seath that kidnapped her for experiments or some poo poo like that.

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Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
^^

Vicas posted:

I am doing absolutely no planning at all and just talking about whatever feels good to talk about. I've been pretty free with spoilers pertaining to DS1 in this thread because this is sort of aimed at people who have played the game before and know the general flow of things

So basically go hog wild, but please try to keep it at least tangentially related to where the LP has reached. There's no reason to talk about the Sisters of Chaos or Gwendolyn's whole deal right now, but if you wanna talk about that mother/child motif and reference things later in the game that's fine. I don't really have much to say on it beyond pointing it out anyway, truth be told

Your case is fine, though I wouldn't really recommend going into it moreso since we will eventually be getting Dusk out of her wack rear end crystal prison

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