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Nope, the comic was released in 2015 I think a lot of Tories of Cameron's generation probably were slightly nerdy and like most British nerdy types in that era probably liked 2000 AD. I figure the main difference is that while most saw the dystopian Mega-Cities and its street-level due process as a hellish vision of a possible future, Tories viewed it as a model to aspire to.
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Jan 1, 2016 22:45
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Renaissance Robot posted:So how about that new propaganda movie? This is what a B-movie looks like in 2016. No more terrible props. Just really really bad CGI for everything including simple things like smoke.
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Jan 1, 2016 23:23
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Regarde Aduck posted:This is what a B-movie looks like in 2016. No more terrible props. Just really really bad CGI for everything including simple things like smoke. well_fix_it_in_post.avi
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Jan 1, 2016 23:41
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Only posting this because of how bad that picture of gove is http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35115160 (Oh and there seem to be an increasing number of people being locked up indefinitely without a trial which is probably even worse than that picture)
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Jan 2, 2016 00:07
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Seaside Loafer posted:Right, if you have time id like you to translate what the gently caress you just said there into stupid for me please. It reads like a load of bollocks with an un-necessary amount of words. Whats your point. What's been written is that apparently Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell are actually Blairites, but are pretending to be socialists to fool the left. No, it's not exactly coherent. It doesn't really stand up to examination as far as I can tell, they sure were playing the really long con if he's right. The idea seems to be that because he's trying moderate his message & not appear the full communism now monster in an entirely hostile press he's actually not a socialist, he's a Blairite?
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Jan 2, 2016 00:31
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forkboy84 posted:What's been written is that apparently Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell are actually Blairites, but are pretending to be socialists to fool the left. Yes, apparently it's Blairites all the way down.
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Jan 2, 2016 00:33
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Lord of the Llamas posted:NI in particular irritates me (no I don't particularly think Corbyn took the right line on NI) since every single loving side whether it be the the governments, IRA, loyalist paramilitaries, or the British Army has civilian blood on their hands because the whole situation was a total cluster gently caress and there's just a lot of innocent victims so anyone getting on their high horse about Corbyn sympathising with "the other side" is a hypocrite. My nan doesn't! Fake e; I just finished reading The Fatal Shore about Transportation to Australia. Clearly Gove's best solution is to ship convicts up to the moon where they can pay off their debt to society in a penal colony that is building the foundations of a permanent free settlement. Before Newt gets his Astromen up there.
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Jan 2, 2016 00:35
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forkboy84 posted:What's been written is that apparently Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell are actually Blairites, but are pretending to be socialists to fool the left. People are really, really chomping at the bit for deselection to begin because it would, in their minds, confirm everything about Corbyn and how he's out for blood etc. The reason this is, is because such dirty, underhanded tactics became dirty, underhanded tactics when New Labour started to use them. Rather than them being legitimate tools to limit the power and scope of people who routinely fail to represent their constituents, and party policies (i.e. most Blairities) they are now scary things akin to Stalinist purges because he's a loony lefty who is trying to destroy the party from within. Much like how the Lords doing their jobs and holding lovely legislation to account is now a completely undemocratic act, the act of removing people who are not actually doing their job is a terribly undemocratic act, since people routinely voted to not have their voices listened to, even in the vast majority of cases where they didn't. In an ideal world Corbyn would be doing everything to get rid of the shits who completely undermine the party and routinely don't actually bother to listen to the people they claim to represent, but his hand is forced because by doing so he's playing into the persecution fantasies of people who think that he's just as bad as they are.
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Jan 2, 2016 00:47
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By that logic shouldn't Corbyn have been deselected years ago?
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Jan 2, 2016 00:51
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forkboy84 posted:What's been written is that apparently Jeremy Corbyn & John McDonnell are actually Blairites, but are pretending to be socialists to fool the left. Not so much that, I feel ronya made the point pretty well, even if I don't wholly agree with it. It comes down to the fact that despite jokes from McDonnell about 'formenting the overthrow of capitalism' (while brewing a tea) and all, Corbyn and his buddies are a far cry from the full communism now theorists we claim them to be. Specifically ronya's pointing to their deference to the Office of Budget Responsibility and the Monetary Policy Committee (of the Bank of England). This is true, and one can argue, as Llamas did, that they're doing it to ease the party into their point of view. Personally I think that what ronya says is partially true, in that Corbyn and McDonnell are not pushing anything close to a 'hard left' or even perhaps 'left-wing' agenda. That said, looking to America and the success of the left-wing under FDR (not FDR himself, but pressure on him by the American socialists) and the subsequent stranglehold the Republican party have, I think taking the little victories in shifting public mood and policy in small iterations is better than sitting around pissing and moaning that we haven't gotten the One True Prophet of <X Ideology> yet so we should wait until then, all the while watching the right-wing gleefully doing what they like. To some extent this is Blairism in practice - knowing that perfect is the enemy of good, and opting for an in-optimal solution for fear of a worse (Tory) one. The problem is PASOKification - moving to the centre only works for a few elections and then relegates your party to the dustbin. Of course, it also doesn't help that Blair and his mutants also shunted much farther right than his talk about triangulation necessarily warranted.
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Jan 2, 2016 00:52
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Pissflaps posted:By that logic shouldn't Corbyn have been deselected years ago?
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Jan 2, 2016 00:58
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Pissflaps posted:By that logic shouldn't Corbyn have been deselected years ago? I'm sure you could ask the people of his constituency if they feel Corbyn has accurately and truthfully represented their views. I'm pretty sure he's done a better job than all those Labour MPs who mentioned how their constituents overwhelmingly displayed disapproval for voting for airstrikes, but they decided to vote for it anyway.
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Jan 2, 2016 00:59
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Pissflaps posted:By that logic shouldn't Corbyn have been deselected years ago?
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Jan 2, 2016 01:00
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XMNN posted:Well, if his constituents and his local party felt he wasn't adequately representing them then yes, obviously. But Ddraig is advocating that Corbyn does everything he can to have MPs deselected? Ddraig posted:
This didnt happen though?
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Jan 2, 2016 01:00
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Pissflaps posted:But Ddraig is advocating that Corbyn does everything he can to have MPs deselected? If MPs do not reflect the people who voted for them then they are clearly not the best person for the job. This isn't a very difficult concept to grasp. It's sort of the entire basis of the representative democracy we have. That "representative" word is actually quite important, as it happens.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:03
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Pissflaps posted:But Ddraig is advocating that Corbyn does everything he can to have MPs deselected? He just said getting rid of them, he could be arguing for their summary execution behind the chemical sheds. Or for teenage girls to flirt with them, maybe.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:03
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Ddraig posted:If MPs do not reflect the people who voted for them then they are clearly not the best person for the job. This isn't a very difficult concept to grasp. But you're talking about deselection as a tactic to be used or not by Corbyn - not the local party. If these MPs are MPs it's because they've been elected to the post. That's the democratic bit.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:06
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Tesseraction posted:Not so much that, I feel ronya made the point pretty well, even if I don't wholly agree with it. It comes down to the fact that despite jokes from McDonnell about 'formenting the overthrow of capitalism' (while brewing a tea) and all, Corbyn and his buddies are a far cry from the full communism now theorists we claim them to be. Right but do people in UKMT actually think Jeremy Corbyn is for full communism now? I know there some slow people here but it's a joke right? Nobody expects a long-serving Labour MP to actually support the immediate overthrow on capitalism. It'd be nice but the Corbyn campaign was always just about pushing the dialogue in the country a little bit to the left, first inside the Labour Party & now in the country at large. A country with the almost complete lack of historical working class revolutionary movements is not going to be conducive to a revolutionary movement now, is it? Things aren't nearly as bad as they'd need to be for that to become a potentiality even vaguely worth considering for a second (we're talking about the level of the 1926 general strike). I think Corbyn is pushing the furthest left agenda that he can, considering the majority of his cabinet are not left wingers & the same goes for the PLP (& where the country is right now). You can't get radical change on the membership alone under the current rules. The most radical proposals have been the ones about passing more power about the direction of party back to the membership from the PLP (& leadership), where it was centralised by Kinnock & Blair. It's obviously an argument that goes back to Bernstein & the Gotha Program, revisionism or reformism, working within the confines of the capitalist state or just overthrowing it. Corbyn has never pretended to be a revolutionary, that was a slur from his critics. He's just a run of the mill democratic socialist. He's also the best hope we've got of taking the national discourse (or the Overton window if you prefer) back towards the left.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:10
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I think that CLPs should have the power to select candidates. The party leader parachuting preferred non-local candidates into safe seats is bad no matter the ideology of the candidate.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:26
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Pissflaps posted:But you're talking about deselection as a tactic to be used or not by Corbyn - not the local party. So democratic that CLPs were forced to choose from shortlists chosen by central office. Let us not forget that former Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont said that they tried to run Scotland like a "branch office of London" upon her resignation. The New Labour strategy took for granted people that in the end couldn't be taken for granted. Scotland is just the most salient symptom of that malaise. If the Scottish Labour leader was disillusioned it's hardly a surprise what happened. New Labour stuck their heads in the sand as they hollowed out Labour's base in pursuit of the hallowed centre ground. The selection of a candidate should be the business of each CLP exclusively. Deselection of an MP that they were coerced to select in the first place is not an affront to democracy.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:26
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Then in what 'ideal world' is Corbyn doing everything he can to 'get rid of the shits'? I'm sorry if I've misunderstood ddraig's post but it seemed he/she was advocating deselection at the behest of the Labour leadership.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:30
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Pissflaps posted:If these MPs are MPs it's because they've been elected to the post. That's the democratic bit. Deselection doesn't stop them being an MP.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:35
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Pissflaps posted:Then in what 'ideal world' is Corbyn doing everything he can to 'get rid of the shits'? Well what ddraig said was: quote:In an ideal world Corbyn would be doing everything to get rid of the shits who completely undermine the party and routinely don't actually bother to listen to the people they claim to represent, but his hand is forced because by doing so he's playing into the persecution fantasies of people who think that he's just as bad as they are. Emphasis added. Which I take to mean that Corbyn should be encouraging CLPs to deselect sitting MPs if they feel they don't represent the CLP's views. But doing so would be represented as a leadership enforced cull as opposed to wanting local parties to be in charge of their own affairs.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:37
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Fans posted:Deselection doesn't stop them being an MP. Quite right. And their selection or not is not the 'representative' part of representative democracy. Lord of the Llamas posted:Which I take to mean that Corbyn should be encouraging CLPs to deselect sitting MPs if they feel they don't represent the CLP's views. But doing so would be represented as a leadership enforced cull as opposed to wanting local parties to be in charge of their own affairs. I think it would be interpreted as exactly what it was - the labour leadership seeking to deselect MPs that aren't on-side. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 01:37
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Pissflaps posted:Quite right. And their selection or not is not the 'representative' part of representative democracy. News to me that it's impossible to stand for election as an independent MP. Also, MPs represent their constituents, not their constituency political parties. quote:I think it would be interpreted as exactly what it was - the labour leadership seeking to deselect MPs that aren't on-side. Such as er Kegluneq fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 01:40
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Kegluneq posted:News to me that it's impossible to stand for election as an independent MP. It's news to me too - I'm not sure why you think I've said that. Kegluneq posted:Also, MPs represent their constituents, not their constituency political parties. That's literally what I'm saying in the post you've quoted.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:42
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loving hell, just ignore him. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 2, 2016 01:43
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Pissflaps posted:I think it would be interpreted as exactly what it was - the labour leadership seeking to deselect MPs that aren't on-side. Why? CLPs with a Corbynist MP are free to deselect them if they don't agree.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:44
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Why? CLP's with a Corbynist MP are free to deselect them if they don't agree. Why what?
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Jan 2, 2016 01:46
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Pissflaps posted:It's news to me too - I'm not sure why you think I've said that. Misread your post and missed a 'not', sorry. Not sorry. Pissflaps posted:Why what?
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Jan 2, 2016 01:47
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Why would Corbyn be 'encouraging' something if he didn't want it to happen?
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Jan 2, 2016 01:48
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Pissflaps posted:Why would Corbyn be 'encouraging' something if he didn't want it to happen? 'It' here refers to one specific outcome amongst many. As noted reform could also harm Corbynite converts unpopular with their CLPs.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:52
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I think we're moving a long way from the message of ddraig's post which was specifically about removing those that 'undermine the party'.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:54
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Pissflaps posted:Why would Corbyn be 'encouraging' something if he didn't want it to happen? Wanting something to happen doesn't mean it's a Machiavellian tactic. You said "the labour leadership seeking to deselect MPs that aren't on-side.". That's fine with me if "on-side" means empowering CLPs to choose their own candidates. The difference between what people are proposing now and what the Blairites did is that the Blairites point blank refused to allow any candidates they didn't approve of but, as I pointed out, non-Corbynite candidates are not a problem as long as they were nominated by their local party. I'm a leftist who voted for Corbyn but our local candidate at the GE (the current leader of the council, and sadly he lost to the Tory incumbent in this marginal seat) is not in particularly that left wing but I'd vote to reselect him for 2020 in a heartbeat because he's a bloody good local candidate who has served the area well. The fantasy here is that the Blairites think Corbyn is trying to institute the exact kind of purges they did when they took control. Many of Corbyn's supporters want that (many UKMTers included) but that's not what is actually happening. Lord of the Llamas fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 01:57
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Pissflaps posted:I think we're moving a long way from the message of ddraig's post which was specifically about removing those that 'undermine the party'. That's one of the purposes of Deselection yes. Pissflaps what is your actual point here, or are you just arguing over wording for no reason? Fans fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 01:58
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Fans posted:That's the purpose of Deselection yes. I asked ddraig if, by the logic he put forward in his post, Corbyn himself should have been deselected years ago. None of this discussion has been about wording.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:03
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Fans posted:Pissflaps what is your actual point here, or are you just arguing over wording for no reason? What a silly question.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:04
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Pissflaps posted:I asked ddraig if, by the logic he put forward in his post, Corbyn himself should have been deselected years ago. If his CLP are unhappy with him then yes. How is that hard to understand?
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Jan 2, 2016 02:05
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It would be useful if one of you could quote the post about 'wording'.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:06
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Lord of the Llamas posted:If his CLP are unhappy with him then yes. How is that hard to understand? Your position is not hard to understand, but you didn't write ddraig's post.
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Jan 2, 2016 02:07
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