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Namtab posted:Cool hyperbole Because cutting off the resources used by the opposition isn't that? Let's see, in the past few months we've seen the conservatives: - Dramatically throttle the already limited powers of trade unions to strike in their members' interests - Cut off large amounts of political funding from those trade unions to the parties they support - Threaten to neuter the second chamber for doing their job of vetting and challenging lovely legislation and underhanded tactics - Threaten to cut off the funding which allows the opposition to act on a level playing field with the Government. - Repeatedly lie about the motivations of the opposition and utilise a friendly press to make out that the opposition are everything from a security threat to outright terrorist sympathisers - Start a war (or exppand it to an new country, anyway) with a nebulous and ill-defined foreign enemy in order to stir jingoistic fervour - Repeatedly demonise the leaders of the opposition for any number of imagined slights to said jingoistic fervour I don't know about you but I'm getting progressively more and more terrified of Cameron and cronies right now. And this is only 8 months into a 5 year term. e: some relevant historical fact I don't know. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 10:45
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I'd add in Cameron's talk of Christian values and Nicky Morgan going on TV and saying children should be taught that Britain is a Christian country too. Co-opting religious imagery to stir popular support and pointedly "other" an undesirable group is an old fascist favourite.
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Jan 2, 2016 11:00
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Tory policies are hurting the vulnerable, yes. Tories are literally Hitler, no
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Jan 2, 2016 11:01
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:I'd add in Cameron's talk of Christian values and Nicky Morgan going on TV and saying children should be taught that Britain is a Christian country too. Co-opting religious imagery to stir popular support and pointedly "other" an undesirable group is an old fascist favourite. My list was by no means intended to be a complete or exclusive one; I could have made a much longer one if I'd taken 5 minutes to actually look up some stories. Namtab posted:Tory policies are hurting the vulnerable, yes. I didn't say they were literally (or even figuratively) Hitler. I said they were rapidly moving towards fascism. Tory policies have been hurting the vulnerable for an entire parliamentary term, now. This is about more than just that, this is about them cutting off the power of the opposition to actually OPPOSE them, it's about removing the checks and balances that theoretically are supposed to prevent horrible abuses of power in our political system - the second chamber, the opposition, workers' representation. This is the point where they'd also be doing horrible things to the press if the press wasn't already massively biased towards them anyway.
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Jan 2, 2016 11:05
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JFairfax posted:i don't understand how pissflaps found the time to make a baby Outsourcing.
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Jan 2, 2016 11:12
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Shitposting is his fetish, we helped get him in the mood. 
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Jan 2, 2016 11:27
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They aren't fascist because they don't have a cult of violence and national renewal, they're right-authoritarian.
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Jan 2, 2016 12:25
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In mathematics, a sequence which 'tends towards' 1 does not actually reach it. For instance: 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, each element is a little closer to 1 than the last, but even an infinite number of elements would never actually reach 1. So in the same way, perhaps the Tories could be said to tend towards fascism.
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Jan 2, 2016 12:33
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Dabir posted:In mathematics, a sequence which 'tends towards' 1 does not actually reach it. For instance: 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, each element is a little closer to 1 than the last, but even an infinite number of elements would never actually reach 1. So in the same way, perhaps the Tories could be said to tend towards fascism. In that given enough time they will be essentially indistinguishable from it, yes.
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Jan 2, 2016 12:41
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Dabir posted:In mathematics, a sequence which 'tends towards' 1 does not actually reach it. For instance: 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5, each element is a little closer to 1 than the last, but even an infinite number of elements would never actually reach 1. So in the same way, perhaps the Tories could be said to tend towards fascism. Uncountable infinities are dumb*, unless you want a concept to describe the scope of my bad opinions about maths. If you cut one of my posts in half a million times until only fractions of a pixel were left, that subpixel would still demonstrate a horribly poor understanding of applied statistics. *from a physical perspective. Mostly I'm just irrationally annoyed by certain people citing variations of Zeno's paradoxes but then refusing to actually reach the indicated conclusion that distance and time are not in reality infinitely subdivisible. Peel posted:They aren't fascist because they don't have a cult of violence and national renewal, they're right-authoritarian. Right-authoritarian is like 90% of fascism. Plus I'd argue that even though their policies are actively hurting the country, they embrace the rhetoric of national renewal ("making Britain great again" etc) strongly enough for it to be reasonable to say that's what they're about. Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 12:53
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I'm pretty sure if Cameron declared a state of emergency and pushed through legislation to give himself emergency powers there would still be people saying "well, it's not really fascism... he doesn't have jackboots"
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Jan 2, 2016 12:54
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:I'd add in Cameron's talk of Christian values and Nicky Morgan going on TV and saying children should be taught that Britain is a Christian country too. Co-opting religious imagery to stir popular support and pointedly "other" an undesirable group is an old fascist favourite. this is particularly annoying considering what lovely christians they are
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Jan 2, 2016 13:00
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Jose posted:this is particularly annoying considering what lovely christians they are I'm pretty sure it's right there in the Beatitudes that the meek shall be subjected to the blessing of forced labour.
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Jan 2, 2016 13:03
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Renaissance Robot posted:Right-authoritarian is like 90% of fascism. Plus I'd argue that even though their policies are actively hurting the country, they embrace the rhetoric of national renewal ("making Britain great again" etc) strongly enough for it to be reasonable to say that's what they're about. Seriously, the whole line of their argument is 'Brown wrecked the country in the crash, we must make it great again, austerity is the way to do that, the shirkers and benefit claimants and terrorists are the ones causing all the problems blame them'. If that's not right-authoritarian nationalism I don't know what is.
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Jan 2, 2016 13:09
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Jose posted:this is particularly annoying considering what lovely christians they are What's the point of worshipping an infinitely forgiving god if you never do anything that needs forgiving?
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Jan 2, 2016 13:13
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LemonDrizzle posted:No, the government does not receive Short money. Short money exists because the government can draw on the resources of the civil service when doing research and policy work and so on whereas opposition parties cannot; its purpose is to give the opposition parties funding to compensate for this and help cover the costs of doing parliamentary business. Don't forget the report that the government were spending more on 'special advisers' this year than last. So while cutting short money, they are increasing their spending on media spin doctors.
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Jan 2, 2016 13:44
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Nicky Morgan going on TV and saying children should be taught that Britain is a Christian country too.
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Jan 2, 2016 13:47
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Guavanaut posted:I agree with this though. If we teach children that parts of Britain have an established church and default religions that are sects of Christianity and the head of state is also the head of a church even though most people don't go, maybe more of them will turn around and ask why.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:00
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12077770/No-Tory-left-behind-pledge-amid-boundary-change-fear.htmlquote:David Cameron has told every Conservative MP that they will be guaranteed a seat to fight at the 2020 election following growing anger in the party over his plans to change the constituency boundaries.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:20
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Looool gently caress the idea that constituency boundaries should... you know, represent the population of the country, right?
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Jan 2, 2016 14:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12077770/No-Tory-left-behind-pledge-amid-boundary-change-fear.html Right, so he's openly stating that he plans to remove 50 MPs from other parties while leaving Tory constituencies untouched.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:25
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quote:The boundary review is seen as one of the key reforms necessary to ensure that the Tories increase their majority at the next general election.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:40
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Happy New Year you lot. I got both David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn when playing pictionary. Sadly my girlfriend guessed both before I could complete the pig head, or the soviet flag.
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Jan 2, 2016 14:44
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the element of fascism that they're missing is extraparliamentary force to back up the neutering of formal procedural balances not that that's much comfort, I appreciate
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Jan 2, 2016 15:10
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ronya posted:the element of fascism that they're missing is extraparliamentary force to back up the neutering of formal procedural balances These days that's called "having a fuckload of money and/or rich friends, especially in mass media"
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Jan 2, 2016 15:18
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Maybe Cameron will follow through on his idea of 10,000 troops on the streets of Britain and we can all finish our bingo cards.
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Jan 2, 2016 15:21
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Is there much difference now that the police are allowed to run around in body armor with self loading rifles killing people extrajudicially?
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Jan 2, 2016 15:28
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Jedit posted:Right, so he's openly stating that he plans to remove 50 MPs from other parties while leaving Tory constituencies untouched. I'm not quite sure that's accurate - the exact quote is that all current MPs will be able to contest a constituency in the next GE, which might just mean he'll parachute some people he doesn't like any more into strong Labour seats instead of the current nonentity Tory candidates, but I tend to be very overgenerous in my accuracy. E: I'm 99% sure he can't actually change the current slate of MPs without an election anyway, so all these boundary changes are for the next GE regardless. It's a very clever way of doing it too, get the changes out the way very early in a term so most of the general public will have forgotten about them by the GE,, if they even cared in the first place. I'd admire it if it wasn't so terrifying. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 15:47
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I'd say that creeping or tending towards fascism is pretty accurate but I highly doubt that the Tories will ever get there. They tend to just push as hard to the right as possible when in power so that when a Liberal or Labour government got in they'd be too busy trying to push back to the previous status quo to get anything else done so that when the Tories get back in again (as they always manage to loving do) they can just push hard-right again. That said, Thatcher was a cannier politician than Cameron and Gidiot so I really hope our current particular house of cards comes tumbling down on Cameron's watch.
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Jan 2, 2016 15:53
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thespaceinvader posted:It's a very clever way of doing it too, get the changes out the way very early in a term so most of the general public will have forgotten about them by the GE,, if they even cared in the first place. I'd admire it if it wasn't so terrifying.
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Jan 2, 2016 15:57
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Calling Dave and pals fascist is just as accurate as when Hillary Benn called ISIS fascist.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:01
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the difference in fascism is that fascism distorts the legibility of society - by warping civil society's ability to read itself into concepts, so that conventional politics is unable to manufacture some consensus conventional wisdom; the hierarchy of superior street mobilization is all that remains. Charisma and violence. The form of a bureaucratic institutions exist, but in fascism, predicting how they would rule in some given case would turn on whether commandant John made a pass at commissar Smith's wife once. A formal police force that is defers to the rule of (authoritarian) law is not quite the same thing. That's just bog-standard authoritarianism. China aspires to it, Singapore immanentizes it.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:04
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Fascist or not it's well poo poo.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:08
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Can you imagine Cameron in a beer hall?
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Jan 2, 2016 16:12
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I can't imagine a beer hall. Huh, looking it up it looks like a kind of greasy spoon for beer. I kinda want some in the UK. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 16:12
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The Lloyds No. 1 Bar Putsch. e: OwlFancier posted:I can't imagine a beer hall. A lot of that also describes Bavarian pubs more generally, so I'd struggle to pin down the exact difference except that beer halls are focused more specifically on drinking and communal socialising; you'd be less likely to go there just for a quiet half litre or a meal with kids. Pubs will serve a larger variety of food and drink too - wine, spirits, beer from more than one brewery. There are actually a fair few Bavarian-style beer halls in the UK now but I've not been to any so I don't know how similar they are to the German ones. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 2, 2016 |
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Jan 2, 2016 16:14
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Saudi Arabia, Cameron's platonic ideal of human rights and political freedom, has just executed 47 people, including a prominent Shia sheikh for involvement in pro-democracy movements which has understandably pissed a lot of people off in the region. I hope he will actually change his attitude instead of just continuing on like nothing happened and they're a really great friend and ally in the region and we can influence them more by selling them planes and bombs and not trying to influence them and blah blah blah again. Although, I wouldn't rule it out because they haven't done anything to a rich old white man from the UK this time.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:26
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marktheando posted:Can you imagine Cameron in a beer hall? His children spend more time in them than him.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:27
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Hitler was not the only fascist ya know. Mussolini coined the term and he wasn't a perpetrator of the holocaust even if he was a massive poo poo. He was executed by communists, tho, makes u think.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:30
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marktheando posted:Can you imagine Cameron in a beer hall? The Winebar Republic.
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Jan 2, 2016 16:51
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